Wire Sizes

[RideJocky]

I want to reconfigure part of our electrical system.

 

We have an existing 10m run of 6mm^2 wire that (I assume) was originally three phase, as it has three black wires and one green wire.

 

If I use one of the blacks and the white, how big a consumer unit can I safely install?

 

If I use two blacks combined, and a white and one black combined, how big a consumer unit can I safely install?

 

I will need to change/add a breaker at the existing panel, and (if I go with the double wire) I will heat-shrink the wires together inside the panel.

 

Thanks

 

[tifino]

please don't be irresponsible, to go doing any mix'n'match of wire colours. Conformity with wiring 'colour' standards is done for a real reason!! 

 

Imagine poor 'next' owner who goes to touch wiring... not knowing it had been tampered with...

[bankruatsteve]

Take a photo of your meter.  

 

You said 3 black and 1 green as incomer.  So, where did white come from.  Green (as in earth) is never part of the incoming supply.

[Crossy]

If it's 6mm² then each core is good for about 40A, pairing up cores would be good for 60-70A (need to de-rate for grouping).

 

If you do decide to use pairs please ensure that the pairs are clearly identified with suitably coloured heatshrink or tape.

 

With pairs I'd stick a 63A MCB on the feed end and be happy.

 

EDIT If you plan to use a green core as a live conductor (L or N) then you would certainly contravene the UK, US and Aussie regs, in Thailand, almost anything goes.

 

[RideJocky]

If it's 6mm² then each core is good for about 40A, pairing up cores would be good for 60-70A (need to de-rate for grouping).
 
If you do decide to use pairs please ensure that the pairs are clearly identified with suitably coloured heatshrink or tape.
 
With pairs I'd stick a 63A MCB on the feed end and be happy.
 
EDIT If you plan to use a green core as a live conductor (L or N) then you would certainly contravene the UK, US and Aussie regs, in Thailand, almost anything goes.
 

I will not use the ground for N or L.

Actually, there are three blacks, a white and a green that looks larger. I’ll take a photo when I get back.

I’d be happy with 63a

[RideJocky]

Take a photo of your meter.  

 

You said 3 black and 1 green as incomer.  So, where did white come from.  Green (as in earth) is never part of the incoming supply.

 

There is a white also. There used to be a three phase meter, but it was (I think) changed to single. I’ll take a photo when I get back

[RideJocky]

please don't be irresponsible, to go doing any mix'n'match of wire colours. Conformity with wiring 'colour' standards is done for a real reason!! 
 
Imagine poor 'next' owner who goes to touch wiring... not knowing it had been tampered with...

We’re currently trying to straighten out what the last owner left us.

I will heat-shrink the black I want to use as neutral white.

Most of the house is all red wiring, which I will likely heat-shrink as I go along.

[bankruatsteve]

Red is commonly used as L.  Just sayin.

[RideJocky]

Red is commonly used as L.  Just sayin.

Yes, but when you open a box and all the wires are red, it’s not likely they’re all being used as L.

The original wiring is mostly the two-wire “Romex” type and seems okay, but all subsequent wiring is suspect.

[Crossy]

With wire colours make a plan and stick to it, if you can use a locally recognised standard all the better.

 

Our sparks used (at my insistance) the Thai / NEC standard of black-live, white-neutral, green-earth. I let him use red for switched lives to light fittings but he ran out of red so many of the switched lives are also black. Oh-well, the best laid plans of mice.

 

Then I go and buy some 3-core flex and get:-

• Brown, blue, green/yellow
• Black, white, green
• Black, white, red (I use red for ground)

 

All good fun ????

 

 

[RideJocky]

Okay these are photos of the meter, which I think is a 30/100 single-phase/2-wire

The service going into the building which looks like it used to be three phase, but a couple leads are stubbed-out.

The panel & three-phase breaker I want to replace with a new c-unit

The 6mm^2 wires

The ground, which looks to have been added after the original installation.

The red wires are going to another panel I want to rewire in separate thread.

My plan is to use two blacks as L, one black and the white for N (heat-shrinked white)




Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[kensisaket]

In my mind your "We're trying to undo what the previous owner did" is a joke.  If you want to undo it, then do it properly.  Get proper size wire; and, quit trying to do everything on the cheap.  The definition of stranded wire is not taking 2 wires and twisting the ends together; so they will magically carry the same amount of current that machine spun stranded wire provides.  Color coding is the least of your problems. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by kensisaket

[RideJocky]

[RideJocky]

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

With wire colours make a plan and stick to it, if you can use a locally recognised standard all the better.

 

Our sparks used (at my insistance) the Thai / NEC standard of black-live, white-neutral, green-earth. I let him use red for switched lives to light fittings but he ran out of red so many of the switched lives are also black. Oh-well, the best laid plans of mice.

 

Then I go and buy some 3-core flex and get:-

• Brown, blue, green/yellow
• Black, white, green
• Black, white, red (I use red for ground)

 

All good fun ????

 

 

Personally I use the IEE/IET colours of Brown Blue and Green/Yellow, whether it be a new install or a retrofit. A number of reasons for this, mainly it's what I'm more familiar with, but it is also the direction Thailand is heading in. Someone, somewhere in some standards department is trying hard with Thailand's electrical standards. I also kind of like the TIS 166-2549 plug.

 

If it's an existing installation I won't touch it. I will only rip out and and start over with my own colours and standards, or walk. 3 Phase I take a different approach. If I find the basics to be sound i.e. safe, I'll follow the existing colour scheme. That is in an industrial setting however, I'll just blow off the installation off if it's in a domestic setting.

 

To anyone reading this topic, in Thailand you should just assume anything capable of conducting electricity can electrocute you, no matter what the colour or setting. My son was once electrocuted by a street vendor's metal cart. Thankfully only tears as a result, and a Dad very angry at the vendor.

[RideJocky]

Personally I use the IEE/IET colours of Brown Blue and Green/Yellow, whether it be a new install or a retrofit. A number of reasons for this, mainly it's what I'm more familiar with, but it is also the direction Thailand is heading in. Someone, somewhere in some standards department is trying hard with Thailand's electrical standards. I also kind of like the TIS 166-2549 plug.
 
If it's an existing installation I won't touch it. I will only rip out and and start over with my own colours and standards, or walk. 3 Phase I take a different approach. If I find the basics to be sound i.e. safe, I'll follow the existing colour scheme. That is in an industrial setting however, I'll just blow off the installation off if it's in a domestic setting.
 
To anyone reading this topic, in Thailand you should just assume anything capable of conducting electricity can electrocute you, no matter what the colour or setting. My son was once electrocuted by a street vendor's metal cart. Thankfully only tears as a result, and a Dad very angry at the vendor.

I grew up with black and white, and can never keep blue and brown straight.

I will say Thailand is great for surface mount receptacles and whatnot. Not much of that in the US.

I like the plugs you referenced, the only thing that bugs is the pin orientation always seems 90 degrees out from the receptacles, and two often don’t seem to fit in a duplex.

The insulation on the base of N & L pins is nice, not sure if that is part of the spec or not.

[tifino]

a least there, one can simply tear away the wiring plinths from the wall... pick it clean and start again...

  heh heh 'surface mounted' - makes it all sound so modern as Nasa 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

9 hours ago, RideJocky said:

 

I like the plugs you referenced, the only thing that bugs is the pin orientation always seems 90 degrees out from the receptacles, and two often don’t seem to fit in a duplex.
 

 

That is not part of the spec, it's a manufacturer preference. For example, all Dell monitors sold in Thailand have that moulded plug with the cable coming out at a straight 90 degrees from the socket surface, as does my Electrolux drip coffee machine.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by NilSS

[johng]

9 hours ago, RideJocky said:

I grew up with black and white, and can never keep blue and brown straight.

An easy way to remember ( though not very PC ) is brown (should be)  "live"  as there are brown people alive, and blue

(should be) "neutral" as there are no live blue people (yet discovered) that just leaves green/green yellow as "earth"  lots of the earth is thankfully still green.

[RideJocky]

Well got the new panel installed and it seems fine.

 

Went with a 63A “Safe-T-Cut” brand panel that includes a main and 8 additional breakers, 2 x 32A, 3 x 20A, 2 x 16A & 1 x 10A.

 

 

I can’t really speak to the electrics, but the quality of the cabinet and whatnot seemed excellent. Heavy gage steel and a very heavy powder coating.

 

Lazard’s, B2,600 delivered.

 

I thought the Square-D/Schneider product was a little nicer but my wife loves the Safe-T-Cut brand.

 

[RideJocky]

Got the Sq-D 63A QO breaker that’s feeding the panel from Global House for B270 which I thought was a bargain. Looks a little odd in the panel, but it fits perfect and is working fine so far...