While Trump rages, McConnell says he would have to hold Senate impeachment trial

[webfact]

While Trump rages, McConnell says he would have to hold Senate impeachment trial

By David Morgan and Roberta Rampton

 

U.S. President Donald Trump looks on during a ceremonial swearing-in for Labor Secretary Eugene Scalia at the White House in Washington, U.S., September 30, 2019. REUTERS/Leah Millis

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump raged about the impeachment inquiry he faces in Congress and the Republican leader of the U.S. Senate said on Monday that he would have "no choice" but to allow a trial if the House of Representatives decides to impeach the president.

 

Senator Mitch McConnell appeared to put to rest speculation that he would use his position to derail any impeachment effort by the Democratic-led House by avoiding a trial at all. The Republicans control the Senate and have been largely muted about the allegations and inquiries into fellow-Republican Trump.

 

The House initiated an impeachment inquiry against Trump last week after a whistleblower report raised concerns that he tried to leverage nearly $400 million in U.S. aid in exchange for a political favour from Ukraine's leader.

 

Three House committees said a subpoena for documents had been sent to Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani. Giuliani, a former New York Mayor, had said on television that he asked the government of Ukraine to "target" former Vice President Joe Biden, who is a potential Democratic candidate to run against Trump in the 2020 election.

 

U.S. President Donald Trump on Monday intensified his attacks on a lawmaker leading the House of Representatives’ impeachment inquiry, suggesting that congressman Adam Schiff should be arrested for “treason.” Chris Dignam has more.

 

If the House approves bringing charges, known as "articles of impeachment," against a president the process moves to the Senate which has a trial.

"I would have no choice but to take it up," McConnell told CNBC.

 

"Under the Senate rules, we are required to take it up if the House does go down that path. "The Senate impeachment rules are very clear," McConnell said.

 

Trump spent much of the day directing his ire at the Democrat leading the inquiry, suggesting on Twitter that congressman Adam Schiff, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, should be arrested for "treason."

 

Later, speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump accused Schiff of distorting his July 25 conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy at a House hearing last week.

 

"Adam Schiff made up a phony call and he read it to Congress and he read it to the people of the United States and it's a disgrace," Trump said.

 

In those comments, Schiff says the call to Zelenskiy "reads like a classic organised crime shakedown" and parodies the president's remarks.

A spokesman for Schiff did not respond to a request for comment on Trump's remarks.

 

Witnesses are due to testify in the House this week in hearings about Trump's request that Ukraine investigate Joe Biden.

 

"You stated more recently that you are in possession of evidence - in the form of text messages, phone records, and other communications - indicating that you were not acting alone and that other Trump Administration officials may have been involved in this scheme," the chairmen of the three committees wrote to Giuliani in a letter. He was given until Oct. 15 to respond.

 

TRUMP SEEKS WHISTLEBLOWER

A U.S. intelligence official filed a whistleblower complaint citing the July 25 telephone call in which Trump asked Zelenskiy to investigate Biden and his son Hunter, who sat on the board of a Ukrainian gas company.

 

The whistleblower has not been publicly identified, but Trump said on Monday that "we're trying to find out about a whistleblower. We have a whistleblower who reports things that were incorrect."

 

Trump has also accused the whistleblower and White House officials who gave the whistleblower information of being spies and suggested they may be guilty of treason.

 

"The Intel Community Whistleblower is entitled to anonymity," Andrew Bakaj, an attorney for the whistleblower, said on Twitter shortly after the president's remarks. "Law and policy support this and the individual is not to be retaliated against. Doing so is a violation of federal law."

 

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has said she wants to move "expeditiously" on the impeachment inquiry, perhaps paving the way for an impeachment vote on the House floor early next year.

 

A majority vote in favour of articles of impeachment would throw the matter to the Senate. And while McConnell said on Monday that he would be forced to hold a trial, he did not commit to letting it run its full course.

 

"How long you're on it is a whole different matter," McConnell told CNBC.

 

According to a Senate Republican leadership aide, any senator could attempt to have the articles dismissed in the early stages of the trial, which would trigger a vote with a majority of the Senate needing to vote in favour for it to succeed.

 

Democrats accuse Trump of pressuring a vulnerable U.S. ally to get dirt on a rival for personal political gain. The phone call with Zelenskiy came after Trump froze nearly $400 million in aid intended to help Ukraine deal with an insurgency by Russian-backed separatists in the eastern part of the country. The aid was later provided.

 

Schiff said on Sunday he expects the whistleblower to appear before the panel very soon.

 

MOVING AHEAD

The U.S. Congress is on a two-week recess but members of the Intelligence Committee will return to Washington this week to carry out an investigation that is likely to produce new subpoenas for documents and other material.

 

The committee is scheduled to hold a closed-door hearing on Friday with the intelligence community's inspector general, Michael Atkinson, who has concluded that the whistleblower complaint was of urgent concern and appeared credible.

 

House investigators are set to take the first witness testimony from two people mentioned in the whistleblower's complaint.

 

On Wednesday, three House committees - Intelligence, Foreign Affairs and Oversight - are due to get a deposition from former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, who Trump labelled "bad news" during his call with Zelenskiy.

 

On Thursday, the committees are set to get a deposition from Kurt Volker, who resigned last week as Trump's special representative for Ukraine after the whistleblower complaint named him as one of two U.S. diplomats who followed up with Ukrainian officials a day after Trump's call to Zelenskiy.

 

Some House Democrats said articles of impeachment against Trump could move to the House floor as soon as next month.

 

"In my mind, it's several weeks," House Judiciary Committee member David Cicilline told reporters last week. "He has already admitted that he contacted a foreign leader and discussed with him ginning up a fake story about one of his political opponents."

 

Last Friday, the House Foreign Affairs Committee issued a subpoena to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo for documents related to the Ukraine scandal. House Democrats also have sought material from the White House and Justice Department.

 

Schiff said any effort by Trump to stonewall the probe could be used to impeach him for obstructing Congress.

 

(Reporting by David Morgan and Roberta Rampton and Patricia Zengerle; Additional reporting by Makini Brice and Doina Chiacu; Writing by James Oliphant; Editing by Will Dunham, Sonya Hepinstall and Grant McCool)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-01

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[Samui Bodoh]

16 minutes ago, webfact said:

McConnell says he would have to hold Senate impeachment trial

I wouldn't put too much faith in that; he was also obligated to hold hearings for Obama's Supreme Court judge and did not.

 

The man is a proven liar.

 

For the sake of the US and the world, I hope that the Republican caucus exerts enough pressure on him to force a vote.

 

16 minutes ago, webfact said:

"In my mind, it's several weeks," House Judiciary Committee member David Cicilline told reporters last week. "He has already admitted that he contacted a foreign leader and discussed with him ginning up a fake story about one of his political opponents."

I hope that it'll be weeks instead of months because that would be a good thing and a good way to proceed. Trump (stupidly for him) already admitted that he was using US Foreign policy to further his own political ends, and the sooner that the amoral, unethical wad of hair gets the boot, the better for the US and the world.

 

Is it possible that the Dems are finally getting their act together and acting appropriately and effectively? It appears to be so, but I get worried that they'll find a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again;

 

Donald Trump is an ever-expanding cloud of toxic waste that defiles everything it touches.

 

Let the long nightmare end!

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Samui Bodoh

[pegman]

I put it 50-50 the GOP Senate turns on Trump. The vote of guilty must be 2/3rds against for him to be turfed. I read that is 67 votes but what if some members don't vote? If 20 senators abstain does the  conviction threshold then move to 61 or still 67? 

[EVENKEEL]

Interesting times, just imagine if Trump survives this. Man oh man, would that be a hoot.

[Kelsall]

9 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Interesting times, just imagine if Trump survives this. Man oh man, would that be a hoot.

He will.

[Samui Bodoh]

I find the two posts above (@EVENKEEL and @Kelsall) to be fascinating, instructive and horrifying.

 

it is fascinating to me that one could comment on the current situation of the occupant of the White House and not include a word on ethics, values, principles or morals. Has American politics really become an ethical wasteland where the pursuit of power is an end itself, without any need for scruples along the way? I find this most often in the debate around judges, especially Supreme Court judges. It has been my experience that the 'Right' wants judges in order to get a favourable ruling (in their eyes) on abortion. Now, I respect that some people feel very strongly about abortion (even though I respectfully disagree), but does their desire to see the practice outlawed come with any ethics/principles attached? Is it worth running over all other factors just to get what they want? Do the ends justify the means?

 

It is instructive reading these pages on the US 'Right'. With very few exceptions, all the arguments that I see coming from that side are generally negative, devoid of fact, information and/or debate. Rather, it is a process of identifying someone/something they don't like (a 'Left-wing radical', a 'Feminazi', a 'SJW with pink hair', etc) and then demonizing that person/thing; rarely do I see/read a reasoned argument as to why a course of action is valid or not. Are there not any positive arguments for Trump's policies?

 

Finally, it is horrifying that in the US the level of political discourse has devolved to the point whereby one merely states that he/she is a member of a certain 'tribe' and does not feel a need to put forth any more discussion. Are there not any reasons why Trump supporters like something? Is it good enough to say that a 'SJW' doesn't agree, thus it is good? Are there not any positive arguments for what you want to see?

 

A TVF member made the point to me the other day that there are many people who like Trump's policies/actions without liking the man, and I said 'okay'. But, on further thought, I don't think it is 'okay'. To me, you cannot separate the message/actions from the messenger and wash your hands of responsibility. Any leader, no matter how evil, does some good things; how can one support all the terrible things, but clap loudly at the good things, and sleep at night? Is there not a moral/ethical view of Trump?

 

So, back to the news article above. I think all Senators MUST vote when the Articles of Impeachment come from the House of Representatives (and, they will). Senators, especially Republican Senators, you have to state for the record if you still believe in the principles, values, ethics and oaths you have espoused. And remember, your vote will be tattooed (proverbially) on your forehead until the day you die.

 

Comments?

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe he should resign before every day more details are exposed.

It's now already obvious that he broke the law multiple times.

Or do the Republicans really want to keep supporting a president who would be prosecuted and in jail except sitting presidents can't be prosecuted.

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

it is fascinating to me that one could comment on the current situation of the occupant of the White House and not include a word on ethics, values, principles or morals. Has American politics really become an ethical wasteland where the pursuit of power is an end itself, without any need for scruples along the way?

And let's not forget that a main part of Trump supporters are the bible thumpers who supposed to respect the Ten Commandments...

[RJRS1301]

Ethics, morals and Trump in same sentence? - oxymoron.

 

He has no understanding he was elected President, not dictator, his role requires responsibility for his actions and words.

Trying to find out information on the whistleblower, is the action of a foolish person. 

He should maintain a dignified silence, and allow due process to take place.

 

[mtls2005]

2 hours ago, pegman said:

I put it 50-50 the GOP Senate turns on Trump.

 

I would have called BS on this as recently as last week but...

 

I assume a lot of folks (Republicans and Dems) know the full extent of the crimes and evidence against the president, and that it will slowly drip out requiring the defense of the day to change. "The president would never do __________." And the next day a WH staffer reveals that the president did exactly ____________.

 

The undercurrents indicate a potential tipping point, sooner (~ 6 weeks?) rather than later.

 

Have immunity/resignation talks begun yet? No, if only because this would send the president into a frenzy (OK, he's there already). But the president's friends (does he have any?), family, advisers will get there soon.

 

Just re-read The Final Days recently, time for a cruise on the Potomac? At least read Part II which begins on July 24, 1974 for a potential roadmap for this presidency.

 

 

Pompeo getting lessons this week on "praying with the president" from the "expert"...

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by mtls2005

[Tug]

Samui take heart change is coming I think some posters like to be the fly in the ointment so to speak I also suspect some aren’t Americans donald is beeing exposed for what he is cracks are starting to appear in the republican camp soon I suspect the terror of trumps wrath will be outweighed by his sheer criminality and fear of supporting him

[TopDeadSenter]

18 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is instructive reading these pages on the US 'Right'. With very few exceptions, all the arguments that I see coming from that side are generally negative

Not funny, and 100% wrong. The last 3 years with the so-called "right" in power has led to record number of minorities in employment, new records again and again on stock markets, the southern border wall under construction and so many other incredible achievements. Trump supporters and people that love the USA are incredibly happy, proud and positive. Yet those that supported the loser in the last election, still just can't accept their defeat, and have resorted to negativity the likes never seen before. You might want to rethink exactly who the "negative" people are.

[neeray]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And let's not forget that a main part of Trump supporters are the bible thumpers who supposed to respect the Ten Commandments...

Hmmm

 

#8 ... “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

#6 ... “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”

[neeray]

18 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

dignified silence

 

19 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Ethics, morals and Trump in same sentence? - oxymoron.

 

He has no understanding he was elected President, not dictator, his role requires responsibility for his actions and words.

Trying to find out information on the whistleblower, is the action of a foolish person. 

He should maintain a dignified silence, and allow due process to take place.

 

"dignified silence" ... I think that would be another oxymoron as it relates to this moron.

[mtls2005]

3 minutes ago, neeray said:

 

"dignified silence" ... I think that would be another oxymoron as it relates to this moron.

 

Polymoron?

 

Polymoronic?

 

Evidently he's got a "very large a brain".

 

 

 

 

 

[Monomial]

41 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

...

 

So, back to the news article above. I think all Senators MUST vote when the Articles of Impeachment come from the House of Representatives (and, they will). Senators, especially Republican Senators, you have to state for the record if you still believe in the principles, values, ethics and oaths you have espoused. And remember, your vote will be tattooed (proverbially) on your forehead until the day you die.

 

Comments?

 

The Republicans created this environment during the whole Clinton scandal, so it is completely fair it is coming back on them. It does mean, however, that impeachment has now become a political tool that can and will be used more and more frequently. Just like filibustering used to be seen as a very serious act used only for the most severe cases, and today it is commonplace.

 

There is no longer morality or good governance involved in impeachment proceedings, and I don't blame the Democrats for this. They are just doing what the people want. But to think that this is anything more than a political show is naive.  The Republicans railed against how Clinton comitted perjury 20 years ago and the Democrats are railing againt Trump today. Won't change the outcome.

 

The interesting point is how both parties are going to try and spin the information that comes out of this during the 2020 elections.  That is really the only purpose to it. The senators already know how they are going to vote.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Monomial

[animalmagic]

35 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

He should maintain a dignified silence, and allow due process to take place.

He's renowned for that!

[Laza 45]

2 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

McConnell says he would have to hold Senate impeachment trial

The thing is.. the Republicans get to make up the rules for the trial.. they can shape it any way they like.. they can make it impossible to bring witnesses forward.. Remember the inquiry in Kavanaugh?

[mtls2005]

11 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

The thing is.. the Republicans get to make up the rules for the trial.. they can shape it any way they like.. they can make it impossible to bring witnesses forward.. Remember the inquiry in Kavanaugh?

 

Yes, but...

 

This may make them look complicit and guilty, which could back-fire.

 

The senate majority leader is a survivor, he'll toss the president over the side if/when it looks really bad.

 

 

[nobodysfriend]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Interesting times, just imagine if Trump survives this. Man oh man, would that be a hoot.

Imagine that Trump does NOT survive this ... his supporters may well cause a lot of trouble in the US . They think that Trump is the first president ever who stays on their side , and they are a lot of people ....

[EVENKEEL]

58 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I find the two posts above (@EVENKEEL and @Kelsall) to be fascinating, instructive and horrifying.

 

A TVF member made the point to me the other day that there are many people who like Trump's policies/actions without liking the man, and I said 'okay'. But, on further thought, I don't think it is 'okay'. To me, you cannot separate the message/actions from the messenger and wash your hands of responsibility. Any leader, no matter how evil, does some good things; how can one support all the terrible things, but clap loudly at the good things, and sleep at night? Is there not a moral/ethical view of Trump?

 

So, back to the news article above. I think all Senators MUST vote when the Articles of Impeachment come from the House of Representatives (and, they will). Senators, especially Republican Senators, you have to state for the record if you still believe in the principles, values, ethics and oaths you have espoused. And remember, your vote will be tattooed (proverbially) on your forehead until the day you die.

 

Comments?

Hi Samui, good morning. You hit the nail on the head, well not the horrifying part. The other one about liking Trump's policies and results. Do I think he could stop tweeting and keep his mouth shut? yes Is he an <deleted>? yeah probably. 

 

And, yes I'll take Trump with all his faults over any Democrat any day.

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

his supporters may well cause a lot of trouble in the US

 

All hat, no cattle.

 

 

Heard this in 1974 too, when then President Nixon still enjoyed MASSIVE support, right up until two weeks before he resigned.

 

 

[LomSak27]

48 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Or do the Republicans really want to keep supporting a president who would be prosecuted and in jail except sitting presidents can't be prosecuted.

 

Do I need to answer that?  

 

Nancy Pelosi gets is vilified so much by FOX and the Republicans, it’s easy to overlook that she is a realist/pragmatist. As such she might not believe they can impeach Trump, even though it is an impeachable and he is guilty of it.

 

Trumps hardcore 35 per cent will vote for him no matter if he sprouted horns and triple sixes appeared on his forehead. Those are beyond the pale. It’s the twenty per cent waffle brigade that Nancy and crew are playing for.

 

My old coworker/Boss is an old school conservative. I do not think he voted in 2016, but he is now so repulsed by TRUMP he believes he has to be removed because POTUS  A) congenitally criminal or B) so mentally unstable/senile he is a danger.  Pelosi and crew believes that the benefits outweigh the negatives even if Trump survives, for the short term 2020 election.

[Skallywag]

27 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

you have to state for the record if you still believe in the principles, values, ethics and oaths you have espoused.

Your idealistic views are refreshing.  

 

You would think there should be vetting before allowing someone to run and become a member of Congress where they will be making laws and have the power to send young american lives in wars.   No education requirements, IQ,  or constitutional knowledge required.  Age, residency,  and citizenship only requirements

Doubt if our current POTUS has memorized all the 27 amendments to the Constitution, or even the first 10, the Bill of Rights. 

Once they are "elected" very very hard to get them out.  They become experts in convincing the public to re-elect them and "raising" money from special interest groups who can help them get re-elected. 

Then the vicious cycle continues

Knowingly lying or doing anything for personal gain is unethical for a public official paid by taxpayers to represent them.  This should be simple grounds for termination.  Ignorance is not an acceptable defense.  

You don't show up for votes, do not participate in committees, cannot prove your voting record is beneficial to your constituents,  termination. Waiting 4-6 years for the next rigged election, very counterproductive. 

Being a member of Congress is a job after all.  If you are not performing it, you should be replaced by someone who can perform.  

Rules of Impeachment should be amended to allow expedition for grievous disregard to constitutional law and the public trust.  Like the old one hour photo .  Justice in one hour.  haha

[mtls2005]

12 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Nancy Pelosi gets is vilified so much by FOX and the Republicans, it’s easy to overlook that she is a realist/pragmatist.

 

Whip-smart, and still a spry 79 years old.

 

She's the one playing the 3D chess while the president is the one grabbing the pieces off the board and eating them.

 

Her father, Thomas D'Alesandro Jr., was mayor of Baltimore, MD and a U.S. Congressional Rep. Her brother also served as Mayor of Baltimore.

 

Favorite photo...

 

 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by mtls2005

[DoctorG]

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Whip-smart, and still a spry 79 years old.

 

She's the one playing the 3D chess while the president is the one grabbing the pieces off the board and eating them.

 

Her father, Thomas D'Alesandro Jr., was mayor of Baltimore, MD and a U.S. Congressional Rep. Her brother also served as Mayor of Baltimore.

 

Favorite photo...

 

 

 

 

Ah Baltimore! The epitome of socialist utopia.

[animalmagic]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

Imagine that Trump does NOT survive this ... his supporters may well cause a lot of trouble in the US . They think that Trump is the first president ever who stays on their side , and they are a lot of people ....

Welcome to the world of 'Brexit'

[klauskunkel]

The raging Trump:

"...and I will huff and puff and blow the White House down, and then I will smash and tear up America and make sure Nobody Can Play With My Toys When I'm Gone!!!"

[neeray]

6 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

The raging Trump:

"...and I will huff and puff and blow the White House down, and then I will smash and tear up America and make sure Nobody Can Play With My Toys When I'm Gone!!!"

AKA "scorched earth policy", Trump style.

[Saint Nick]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Not funny, and 100% wrong. The last 3 years with the so-called "right" in power has led to record number of minorities in employment, new records again and again on stock markets, the southern border wall under construction and so many other incredible achievements. Trump supporters and people that love the USA are incredibly happy, proud and positive. Yet those that supported the loser in the last election, still just can't accept their defeat, and have resorted to negativity the likes never seen before. You might want to rethink exactly who the "negative" people are.

Your posts are hilarious...unless you are serious!

The stock market basically crashes, every time the "President" opens his stupid blabhole!

The "jobs" he created are mostly underpaid jobs, the wall is nowhere near being "under construction" and I guess, by many "incredible achievements" you don't mean all the corruption, the law breaking, the "better healthcare than anyone has ever seen" and all that claptrap!

You might rethink, going back on your meds or to kindergarden!