Automatically water pump not turning off

[Wongkitlo]

I have just installed a 2000 litre tank and an automatic Hitachi pump. It is hard to work out how my Thai wife and the worker describe the problem but they say it turns on but does not turn off. We are manually turning it on for showers and then turning it off after. I wondered if anyone had any idea about this problem. Cheers.

 

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[ross163103]

Not sure what pump you have as you didn't mention the model or type, but most of them have a pressure switch that prevents the pump from over pressurizing the system. It usually starts the pump at a preset low pressure then cuts off at a preset higher pressure. Sounds like to me the pump isn't reaching it's cut off pressure. Could be an airlock in the pump--the pump needs to be bled totally of air; or it's running and won't shut off because you're switching it off before it reaches the cut off pressure--you didn't say how long it's running. I would start with making sure ALL air is out of the system, then if there's a gauge in the system, watching that to see of the pressure climbs. I've had pumps before that had air in them but built up some pressure so it seems like it's working, but it never got high enough to cut off. Good luck.

[lopburi3]

The persons installing should take care of the matter.  If they are just general contractors they need the advice of a pump installer/repair person.  As said the pumps have a cut on/off pressure settings (which are often fixed) - are you perhaps also using town water supply?  If no check valve/turn off valve on that line pressure will never get high enough to shut off pump as the pressurized water is just going back into the supply water system.

Edited October 2, 2019 by lopburi3

[sometimewoodworker]

34 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

have just installed a 2000 litre tank and an automatic Hitachi pump. It is hard to work out how my Thai wife and the worker describe the problem but they say it turns on but does not turn off. We are manually turning it on for showers and then turning it off after. I wondered if anyone had any idea about this problem. Cheers.

Lack of an NVR on the bypass feed.

 

you really need to diagram your supply and feed to the house to get a reasonable diagnosis. Mine is a good guess if you have a bypass but useless if you don't.

 

at the moment it's similar to my car won't turn off. ???? not nearly enough info.

[Wongkitlo]

Lack of an NVR on the bypass feed.
 
you really need to diagram your supply and feed to the house to get a reasonable diagnosis. Mine is a good guess if you have a bypass but useless if you don't.
 
at the moment it's similar to my car won't turn off. [emoji6] not nearly enough info.

Hey thanks. Is good info but don't know what an NVR is?

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[Wongkitlo]

The persons installing should take care of the matter.  If they are just general contractors they need the advice of a pump installer/repair person.  As said the pumps have a cut on/off pressure settings (which are often fixed) - are you perhaps also using town water supply?  If no check valve/turn off valve on that line pressure will never get high enough to shut off pump as the pressurized water is just going back into the supply water system.

Thanks. Am a long way from anywhere and have the local fix anything guy coming back tomorrow. The mains water goes to a tank and then to the pump.

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[Wongkitlo]

Not sure what pump you have as you didn't mention the model or type, but most of them have a pressure switch that prevents the pump from over pressurizing the system. It usually starts the pump at a preset low pressure then cuts off at a preset higher pressure. Sounds like to me the pump isn't reaching it's cut off pressure. Could be an airlock in the pump--the pump needs to be bled totally of air; or it's running and won't shut off because you're switching it off before it reaches the cut off pressure--you didn't say how long it's running. I would start with making sure ALL air is out of the system, then if there's a gauge in the system, watching that to see of the pressure climbs. I've had pumps before that had air in them but built up some pressure so it seems like it's working, but it never got high enough to cut off. Good luck.

Thanks. An airlock makes sense . Do you bleed it by just letting it run with the furthest outlet open?Is a semi large guesthouse.

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[The Fat Controller]

You could have a serious leak.

 

As above , if the tank has a bypass from the incoming mains but no Non-Return Valve, you could also be pumping water back down the mains when the pump is running.

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, Wongkitlo said:

Hey thanks. Is good info but don't know what an NVR is?

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NVR non-return valve, or one way valve

[Crossy]

Your pump setup should be something like this (probably with rather fewer stop valves)

 

The NRV of which @sometimewoodworker speaks is the bottom one in the diagram. This allows city water pressure through when there's no power so you at least get some water.

 

Note that this valve is sometimes a simple stop valve, this must be OFF for normal operation. In fact if you have this valve and it is ON then you would get something like the symptoms you are seeing.

 

Post a few pictures of the arrangement you have.

 

[Wongkitlo]

Hey thanks for all the advice and help

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[Crossy]

Looks like the one open tap (centre of the 3rd picture) is the bypass that allows city pressure into the house (for if you have no power).

 

Close this one and open the other three.

[bankruatsteve]

Right.  Just to add a few comments:

 

Guessing the pipe on the left is incoming main and the one on the right is out to your house.  If so, the valve on the far left (controlling feed to tank?) and the valve on the tank out should normally be open.  The valve in the middle closed with the one on the right open will supply water from the tank/pump.  The middle open and the right closed will supply water from the main (pump wont engage).

[Wongkitlo]

Right.  Just to add a few comments:
 
Guessing the pipe on the left is incoming main and the one on the right is out to your house.  If so, the valve on the far left (controlling feed to tank?) and the valve on the tank out should normally be open.  The valve in the middle closed with the one on the right open will supply water from the tank/pump.  The middle open and the right closed will supply water from the main (pump wont engage).

Hey sorry. Just woke up when took the photo. Ee bypassed overnight to have some water

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[Wongkitlo]

Looks like the one open tap (centre of the 3rd picture) is the bypass that allows city pressure into the house (for if you have no power).
 
Close this one and open the other three.

Sorry just woke up when took the photo. Bypassed overnight

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[Wongkitlo]

They talked alot in Thai made phonecalls to the shop. Treated me like dumb farung cause Thais know everything. There was some small problem with the pump. All fixed now and working great. Am really grateful that you guys all went to the trouble of helping. Thanks again.

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[lopburi3]

FM (a type of magic).????

[soalbundy]

Hit it with a hammer

[Wongkitlo]

Hit it with a hammer

Percussive maintenance

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[Wongkitlo]

HI. I really appreciated all the help with my pump. The initial problem was solved but I am having on going problems with too much pressure. In an ideal world I would ring up the people who sold it but I am in a remote island and rely on the local handyman. I have tried to buy a valve to control the pressure but I don't think they bought the right thing. I was hoping someone would know if it is possible to adjust the pump internally to lessen the pressure. I have seen examples of this on YouTube but was hoping for some advice whether this is possible or the best course to take.

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[Wongkitlo]

I have sent Mitsubishi for a manual but no replies. I bought it from Siam global but their email address doesn't work. Fun dealing with Thai companies.

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[bankruatsteve]

Can you clarify what you mean by "too much pressure"?  Is it blowing joints, causing problem with irrigation equipment, or...?

[lopburi3]

Not clear what pump that is but appears to be a constant pressure type without a pressure tank so there may not be any adjustment method.  The normal Mitsubishi well pump has adjustments and the new type Grundfos with pressure tanks do but the old Grundfos without tank did not.  We wanted high pressure for good showers and redid house water pipe system (external pipes) to accommodate that.  If you need less pressure you may have to change to a shallow well type pump (which most people have used up until recently).

 

[sometimewoodworker]

44 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

HI. I really appreciated all the help with my pump. The initial problem was solved but I am having on going problems with too much pressure. In an ideal world I would ring up the people who sold it but I am in a remote island and rely on the local handyman. I have tried to buy a valve to control the pressure but I don't think they bought the right thing. I was hoping someone would know if it is possible to adjust the pump internally to lessen the pressure. I have seen examples of this on YouTube but was hoping for some advice whether this is possible or the best course to take.

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You certainly have a pressure control valve, turning the big black knurled knob will reduce or increase the pressure it permits.

 

I am very familiar with those used in air systems, I've got about 6, you usually have to lift the big part up as the small bit locks it in place.

 

You are probably unique in complaining of too much pressure from your pump. ???? 

[Fruit Trader]

44 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Not clear what pump that is but appears to be a constant pressure type without a pressure tank so there may not be any adjustment method.

Post #11 shows the the cover off and evidence of pressure switch tinkering.

 

These compact pumps have a small pressure tank with electronic on/off control using flow and pressure switch.

 

Now we have a 4 port air regulator on the system.

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Post #11 shows the the cover off and evidence of pressure switch tinkering.

 

These compact pumps have a small pressure tank with electronic on/off control using flow and pressure switch.

 

Now we have a 4 port air regulator on the system.

In that case they may have set too high when there was no check valve and need to readjust to correct pressures.

[Wongkitlo]

Can you clarify what you mean by "too much pressure"?  Is it blowing joints, causing problem with irrigation equipment, or...?

Is in a guest house. It is blowing joints. The bum guns are like a torture device. Very strong

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[Wongkitlo]

Post #11 shows the the cover off and evidence of pressure switch tinkering.
 
These compact pumps have a small pressure tank with electronic on/off control using flow and pressure switch.
 
Now we have a 4 port air regulator on the system.

I mainly need to know if it is possible to adjust it. As I am a farung I know nothing so asking for them to call Global and get advice is not getting anywhere. If I could say yes it is possible to adjust it I can hopefully get them (wife and handyman) to call.

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[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said:

Is in a guest house. It is blowing joints. The bum guns are like a torture device. Very strong

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Bum gun should have separate flow control - some are built into gun itself or have on the line from wall.  Simple one time setting.

[Wongkitlo]

In that case they may have set too high when there was no check valve and need to readjust to correct pressures.

I bought it from Global Siam. I am relying on the local handyman who does not seem to know a lot. Would be great to know if it can be adjusted. I have seen YouTube how to videos on doing it but no one listens to a farung.

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