PM Johnson makes final Brexit offer, draws guarded welcome from EU

[webfact]

PM Johnson makes final Brexit offer, draws guarded welcome from EU

By Elizabeth Piper, William James and Kylie MacLellan

 

Britain's Prime Minister Boris Johnson gives a closing speech at the Conservative Party annual conference in Manchester, Britain, October 2, 2019. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls

 

MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson made a final Brexit offer to the European Union on Wednesday, pitching a possible compromise for a last-minute exit deal that was cautiously welcomed by the EU though the two sides still remain far apart.

 

In what Johnson's supporters cast as a moment of truth after more than three years of Brexit crisis, Johnson urged Brussels to compromise but warned that if it did not then Britain would leave the EU without a deal on Oct. 31.

 

Johnson went further than many expected on the most contentious issue - the border between British-ruled Northern Ireland and EU member Ireland - with a proposal for an all-island regulatory zone to cover all goods, replacing the so-called backstop arrangement he says he cannot accept.

 

Besides the concession though, Johnson proposed giving Northern Ireland institutions the ongoing power to abide by or exit the regulatory zone - a possible step too far for Ireland and the EU.

 

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson on Wednesday made a final Brexit offer to the European Union, including his plans for the Irish border, but most other details are scarce. Matthew Larotonda reports.

 

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker welcomed "positive advances" in Johnson's proposals, such as the full regulatory alignment for all goods, but noted some problems.

 

"There are still some problematic points that will need further work in the coming days, notably with regards to the governance of the backstop," the Commission said in a statement issued after Johnson and Juncker spoke on a call.

 

"The EU wants a deal. We remain united and ready to work 24/7 to make this happen – as we have been for over three years now," it said.

 

Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar told Johnson that the proposals did not fully meet agreed objectives, his spokesman said after the two leaders spoke by phone, but agreed to study them in more detail and consult with EU partners.

 

With less than a month left until Britain is due to leave the EU, the future of Brexit, its most significant geopolitical move since World War Two, is uncertain. It could leave with a deal or without one - or not leave at all.

 

Deutsche Bank said it saw a 50 percent chance of a no-deal Brexit by the end of the year. This would spook financial markets, send shockwaves through the global economy, snarl ports on both sides of the Channel and divide the West.

 

PHONEY BREXIT BATTLE

While London's last-minute proposals do mark some movement on the Irish border, the biggest sticking point of the Brexit negotiations, many EU diplomats are convinced that the United Kingdom is heading towards either a delay or a no-deal exit.

 

Johnson says he wants to get a deal at an Oct. 17-18 EU summit. A law passed by his opponents forces him to delay Brexit unless he strikes a deal. Johnson said further delay was "pointless and expensive".

 

Amid so much pessimism about the possibility of a deal in just weeks, many diplomats say a phoney struggle is underway between London and Brussels to apportion blame.

 

"It's a game of cat and mouse," said one EU diplomat.

 

Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said the proposals marked progress but more work was needed. Guy Verhofstadt, head of the European Parliament's Brexit Steering Group, was less convinced.

 

Asked by a reporter if the proposal was a serious attempt to break the deadlock or designed to shift the blame on to Brussels if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, he said: "I think that last point was not so bad."

 

Raoul Ruparel, former Europe adviser to Johnson's predecessor, Theresa May, said the offer appeared unlikely to win over the EU.

 

"I cannot see the EU and Ireland agreeing to these proposals, they may not even see them as a basis for negotiations," he told Reuters.

 

Opposition Party leader Jeremy Corbyn said Johnson's proposals were too vague and that the EU would not accept them.

 

IRISH PROBLEM

Ireland, whose 500 km (300 mile) land border with the United Kingdom will become the frontier of the EU's single market and customs union after Brexit, is crucial to any deal.

 

The problem is how to prevent Northern Ireland becoming a "back door" into the EU market without erecting border controls that could undermine the 1998 Good Friday Agreement (GFA), which ended decades of political and sectarian violence in Northern Ireland in which more than 3,600 people were killed.

 

Britain said its proposals were compatible with the peace agreement and suggested a zone of regulatory compliance across Northern Ireland and the EU to eliminate checks for trade in goods.

 

Before the end of a transition period after Brexit in December 2020, the Northern Ireland assembly and executive that were established under the 1998 deal would be required to give their consent to this arrangement and every four years afterwards, the seven-page document said.

 

Northern Ireland would stay part of the United Kingdom's customs territory but to avoid customs checks, a declaration system would be introduced with a simplified process for small traders, along with a trusted-traders scheme.

 

"We are tabling what I believe are constructive and reasonable proposals which provide a compromise for both sides," Johnson said in a speech to his Conservative party's annual conference. "I hope very much that our friends understand that and compromise in their turn."

 

Asked if the proposal meant Britain expected the EU to change its customs rules, a UK official said: "We are asking them that because we agreed there will be flexible and creative solutions on the island of Ireland and part of it is adjusting legislation to enable it."

 

The Northern Irish Democratic Unionist Party, supporters of British rule of the province who back Johnson's government, welcomed his proposals, saying they ensured that Northern Ireland would be out of the customs union and single market.

 

DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds said the proposals gave his party an effective veto over regulatory alignment with the EU, allowing them to back the plan.

 

Some lawmakers in Britain's opposition Labour Party also signalled they could back the deal in a parliamentary vote if it was accepted by Europe and Dublin.

 

A senior British official said: "The government is either going to be negotiating a new deal or working on no deal - nobody will work on delay."

 

(Additional reporting by John Chalmers and Gabriela Baczynska in Brussels; Writing by Elizabeth Piper and Guy Faulconbridge; editing by Angus MacSwan, Peter Graff and Alex Richardson)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-03

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[Samui Bodoh]

33 minutes ago, webfact said:

Guy Verhofstadt, head of the European Parliament's Brexit Steering Group, was less convinced.

 

Asked by a reporter if the proposal was a serious attempt to break the deadlock or designed to shift the blame on to Brussels if Britain leaves the EU without a deal, he said: "I think that last point was not so bad."

"I think that last point was not so bad."

 

Hammer meet the head of the nail.

 

This looks like nothing more than Boris trying to lay blame on the EU in the upcoming election. And, blame if/when the UK leaves the EU without a deal and sees its economy (and the pound; deepest condolences Thai pensioners) tank.

 

The saddest part in all this is that the 'leaders' in Parliament, business, etc who are calling for the UK to leave at any cost aren't the ones who are going to suffer. Yes, perhaps their stock portfolios will take a minor hit (although I am sure that they have already hedged for that) and perhaps they won't be able to buy that third country house for a year or two until the UK property crash really sets in, but they will be fine.

 

No, it'll be the little guy who works in a factory or a shop or is a retiree or a young person searching for an opportunity who is going to pay the price. And, it'll be a heavy price indeed.

 

It is just sad to see the UK do this to itself.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

[bannork]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"I think that last point was not so bad."

 

Hammer meet the head of the nail.

 

This looks like nothing more than Boris trying to lay blame on the EU in the upcoming election. And, blame if/when the UK leaves the EU without a deal and sees its economy (and the pound; deepest condolences Thai pensioners) tank.

 

The saddest part in all this is that the 'leaders' in Parliament, business, etc who are calling for the UK to leave at any cost aren't the ones who are going to suffer. Yes, perhaps their stock portfolios will take a minor hit (although I am sure that they have already hedged for that) and perhaps they won't be able to buy that third country house for a year or two until the UK property crash really sets in, but they will be fine.

 

No, it'll be the little guy who works in a factory or a shop or is a retiree or a young person searching for an opportunity who is going to pay the price. And, it'll be a heavy price indeed.

 

It is just sad to see the UK do this to itself.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

It's unbelievable SB. A country, or rather 37% of the electorate who voted to leave, prepared to sever economic links for an unknown future as a country alone and helpless in deals with countries like China, USA and India. And of course future terms with the EU will be to the UK's disadvantage, not being a member.

So utterly, utterly, foolish.

Still, it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps the EU will save us from our own leaders 

 

'

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, bannork said:

It's unbelievable SB. A country, or rather 37% of the electorate who voted to leave, prepared to sever economic links for an unknown future as a country alone and helpless in deals with countries like China, USA and India. And of course future terms with the EU will be to the UK's disadvantage, not being a member.

So utterly, utterly, foolish.

Still, it hasn't happened yet. Perhaps the EU will save us from our own leaders 

 

'

Makes you wonder how the other 168 countries in the world survive doesn't it.

 

We are not severing economic links with the EU, we are moving to WTO terms until a trade deal can be reached which will probably be about 5 years from now (trade deals with our countries will obviously be much quicker, there are already a number waiting to be signed as soon as we're out). We'll still trade with the EU, as they have a 70 Billion pounds a year trade surplus with us, so they're not going to refuse to trade with us, are they?

 

In the meantime, we are free to strike trade deals around the world, save a Billion pounds a month propping up the net beneficiaries of the EU project, regain our fishing waters, control our own borders and make our own laws. 

 

So there's really no need for the Chicken Little routine. Much better to see the positives, get behind the project and support the UK as it prospers as an independent nation.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

And I have said it before, and I will have said it again.

 

This is a country which has made a decision, democratically, (the initial referendum) and confirmed it with a general election and subsequent legislation, all completely constitutional.

 

That decision is now being thwarted by a parliament which has reneged on both the acceptance of the referendum result and the results of the general election which has denied it, yet is not prepared to face it's electorate over their behaviour.

 

Analogies are always somewhat inexact, but how would Canada feel if, for example, the State of Alaska claimed an effective veto on their government policies, and a Mexican Politician was to have the apparent power to dismiss them as not being what other countries in the North American community of nations wanted?

[evadgib]

Groundhog day, again.

Every morning a new Brexit thread emerges and gets ruthlessly dissected to the sound of sonny and Cher.

Roll on 01-Nov. UK made the right decision and nothing will ever change my mind.

[bannork]

45 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Groundhog day, again.

Every morning a new Brexit thread emerges and gets ruthlessly dissected to the sound of sonny and Cher.

Roll on 01-Nov. UK made the right decision and nothing will ever change my mind.

Wait 6 months after No Deal.

[evadgib]

54 minutes ago, bannork said:

Wait 6 months after No Deal.

Gladly, assuming No Deal is what we're getting.

[luckyluke]

From "De Morgen" Flemish newspaper   ( Google translation ).

 

Johnson's Brexit proposal is "a step forward" for Europe, but "not enough"

/Jean- Claude Juncker/

[evadgib]

Having mentioned Groundhog day I thought the board might like this latest interview by Robin Tilbrook

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Wait 6 months after No Deal.

In 6 months you wont be able to find anyone who will admit they voted for Brexit.

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

In 6 months you wont be able to find anyone who will admit they voted for Brexit.

I have to admit, somewhere around number 20 of my 50 reasons for wanting No Deal is so that I can laugh at how all the doomsday predictions didn't come true in 6 months from now.

 

Much as I still chuckle today about the false Project Fear predictions in 2016 about what would happen purely on a vote to leave (not actually leaving).

[Bruntoid]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Makes you wonder how the other 168 countries in the world survive doesn't it.

 

We are not severing economic links with the EU, we are moving to WTO terms until a trade deal can be reached which will probably be about 5 years from now (trade deals with our countries will obviously be much quicker, there are already a number waiting to be signed as soon as we're out). We'll still trade with the EU, as they have a 70 Billion pounds a year trade surplus with us, so they're not going to refuse to trade with us, are they?

 

In the meantime, we are free to strike trade deals around the world, save a Billion pounds a month propping up the net beneficiaries of the EU project, regain our fishing waters, control our own borders and make our own laws. 

 

So there's really no need for the Chicken Little routine. Much better to see the positives, get behind the project and support the UK as it prospers as an independent nation.

Clueless doesn’t come close to describing that nonsense

 

The EU trading rules trump WTO rules  on every occasion! WTO staff will tell you that. 

 

If my memory serves me correctly we already have around 30 WTO trading partners (debunking the myth we cannot trade outside the EU) and in every case the conditions are worse than the EU conditions. 

 

Still its not all doom and gloom, I hear you’ve got South Korea ready to sign ????

[Caldera]

By the low standards Boris has set in recent weeks, I think this latest attempt actually isn't all that bad. I just doubt there will be enough time to replace the backstop agreement with something along the lines of his proposal.

[evadgib]

32 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

In 6 months you wont be able to find anyone who will admit they voted for Brexit.

By June 2000 no one admitted they'd expected the sky to fall in on 31 Dec 99.

[Bruntoid]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Groundhog day, again.

Every morning a new Brexit thread emerges and gets ruthlessly dissected to the sound of sonny and Cher.

Roll on 01-Nov. UK made the right decision and nothing will ever change my mind.

The UK ? 

 

37% made that decision - 63% had nothing to do with it 

[JAG]

6 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

The UK ? 

 

37% made that decision - 63% had nothing to do with it 

46.5 million voted. That is 72% of those eligible ( the largest turnout in any voting process since 1996 - the last 5 elections have all had significant lower turnouts).

 

Leave had a majority. As no less an august and important European figure as Ursula von der Leyen, President elect (a dubious description considering how she arrived at the post but never mind) of the European Union Commission put it, when ratification of her appointment scraped through the European Parliament; "A majority is a majority"!

 

Those that voted to remain lost the vote. Those who couldn't be arsed to vote (it was hardly a snap decision to hold the referendum, and everyone had ample time to arrange a vote) may wish that the result had been to remain, but, they didn't vote, so they made their views irrelevant. As you yourself put it' they (chose to) have nothing to do with it.

[Krataiboy]

22 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

The UK ? 

 

37% made that decision - 63% had nothing to do with it 

A logical fallacy, unless you believe every government we've ever elected was operating on a false mandate.

[Thingamabob]

An excellent speech by an excellent PM.

[DPKANKAN]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"I think that last point was not so bad."

 

Hammer meet the head of the nail.

 

This looks like nothing more than Boris trying to lay blame on the EU in the upcoming election. And, blame if/when the UK leaves the EU without a deal and sees its economy (and the pound; deepest condolences Thai pensioners) tank.

 

The saddest part in all this is that the 'leaders' in Parliament, business, etc who are calling for the UK to leave at any cost aren't the ones who are going to suffer. Yes, perhaps their stock portfolios will take a minor hit (although I am sure that they have already hedged for that) and perhaps they won't be able to buy that third country house for a year or two until the UK property crash really sets in, but they will be fine.

 

No, it'll be the little guy who works in a factory or a shop or is a retiree or a young person searching for an opportunity who is going to pay the price. And, it'll be a heavy price indeed.

 

It is just sad to see the UK do this to itself.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

Not a Country!!! Just the majority of controlling MP's who are remainers!!! They are shooting the voting people in the crotch!!! ????????????????

Edited October 3, 2019 by DPKANKAN
Proper word been deleted

[JonnyF]

30 minutes ago, Bruntoid said:

The UK ? 

 

37% made that decision - 63% had nothing to do with it 

65% of people did NOT vote to Remain. Pretty damning figures for the EU.

 

[stephenterry]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Makes you wonder how the other 168 countries in the world survive doesn't it.

 

We are not severing economic links with the EU, we are moving to WTO terms until a trade deal can be reached which will probably be about 5 years from now (trade deals with our countries will obviously be much quicker, there are already a number waiting to be signed as soon as we're out). We'll still trade with the EU, as they have a 70 Billion pounds a year trade surplus with us, so they're not going to refuse to trade with us, are they?

 

In the meantime, we are free to strike trade deals around the world, save a Billion pounds a month propping up the net beneficiaries of the EU project, regain our fishing waters, control our own borders and make our own laws. 

 

So there's really no need for the Chicken Little routine. Much better to see the positives, get behind the project and support the UK as it prospers as an independent nation.

Hopefully this quote will make you feel energised to take on all the 'remainers' posts. It's the least I can do, before No-Deal Britain sinks beneath the waves. 

 

You can never cross the ocean until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore.

Christopher Columbus.

 

 

[cleopatra2]

Is the only changes to the backstop NI issue.?

Does it leave T.Mays deal still intact

[stephenterry]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

65% of people did NOT vote to Remain. Pretty damning figures for the EU.

 

They didn't vote to leave either, but are now being forced to leave by a tory government who upholds a population minority.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

The UK ? 

 

37% made that decision - 63% had nothing to do with it 

If the ratio had been the other way around the silence would have been deafening.

Throwing your feathers behind a campaign to ensure compulsory voting & PR in future might help.

Edited October 3, 2019 by evadgib

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"I think that last point was not so bad."

 

Hammer meet the head of the nail.

 

This looks like nothing more than Boris trying to lay blame on the EU in the upcoming election. And, blame if/when the UK leaves the EU without a deal and sees its economy (and the pound; deepest condolences Thai pensioners) tank.

 

The saddest part in all this is that the 'leaders' in Parliament, business, etc who are calling for the UK to leave at any cost aren't the ones who are going to suffer. Yes, perhaps their stock portfolios will take a minor hit (although I am sure that they have already hedged for that) and perhaps they won't be able to buy that third country house for a year or two until the UK property crash really sets in, but they will be fine.

 

No, it'll be the little guy who works in a factory or a shop or is a retiree or a young person searching for an opportunity who is going to pay the price. And, it'll be a heavy price indeed.

 

It is just sad to see the UK do this to itself.

 

I have said it before and will say it again;

 

Never before have I seen a country so utterly determined to shoot itself in the crotch.

 

Yes, you are right. And it's true It's a bunch of ego-maniacs who really don't care about people but just to follow their path of selfishness. Those with filled pockets were betting already in decreasing pound. And will earn huge amounts of money rubbing their hands after Brexit accomplished. 

It's so sad to see UK running into desaster. 

My hope is that Scotland can do better and cut the chains to UK. And I'm sure Sinn Fein will know what to do ....????

[PETERTHEEATER]

Go BoJo go,

[evadgib]

59 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Yes, you are right. And it's true It's a bunch of ego-maniacs who really don't care about people but just to follow their path of selfishness. Those with filled pockets were betting already in decreasing pound. And will earn huge amounts of money rubbing their hands after Brexit accomplished. 

It's so sad to see UK running into desaster. 

My hope is that Scotland can do better and cut the chains to UK. And I'm sure Sinn Fein will know what to do ....????

The easiest way to achieve that would be to ensure the rest of UK were asked.

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Makes you wonder how the other 168 countries in the world survive doesn't it.

 

We are not severing economic links with the EU, we are moving to WTO terms until a trade deal can be reached which will probably be about 5 years from now (trade deals with our countries will obviously be much quicker, there are already a number waiting to be signed as soon as we're out). We'll still trade with the EU, as they have a 70 Billion pounds a year trade surplus with us, so they're not going to refuse to trade with us, are they?

 

In the meantime, we are free to strike trade deals around the world, save a Billion pounds a month propping up the net beneficiaries of the EU project, regain our fishing waters, control our own borders and make our own laws. 

 

So there's really no need for the Chicken Little routine. Much better to see the positives, get behind the project and support the UK as it prospers as an independent nation.

1) Why these 168 countries would be NOW interested in British products, more as before ? NO EU rule hampers any trade with nations outside the EU, only make it more possible

2) The overwhelming already concluded or under negociations of trade deals with other countries benefit every EU state. Why to try as a 67 mln - US 2,800 Bn GDP nation to think to be better as a 530 mln inhabitants, US$ 18,000 GDP block ?

3) You think, the UK industry can wait till new business is build up, seen the loss with EU trade, as per 1 Nov 00:00:01 the WTO-import duty rules for "third countries" will be valid, making quite some UK products .. "out-of-competition" inside the EU.  see https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

4) According a study published by the HoC the net contribution to the EU is less as GBP 7,9Bn a year. This is inclusive all contribution to organisations, who work for the benefit of all EU member states, like the Medicide Agency, the RASFF, EFSA and many others. From 1 Nov, the UK has to do that on its own. And how much UK private organisations get from the EU, nobody knows. One thing for sure: the EU import duty levied over UK goods are many times the amount the UK pays annually as "contribution". 

5) One big advantage: the UK already succeeded to bring their curerency back from € 1,40 till now €1,125, with this able to compensate a 10+% import duty. That this do cost a 18 % over all export revenues, and make all imports more expensive, till now no Brexiteer ever thought about this.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by puipuitom

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

I have to admit, somewhere around number 20 of my 50 reasons for wanting No Deal is so that I can laugh at how all the doomsday predictions didn't come true in 6 months from now.

 

Much as I still chuckle today about the false Project Fear predictions in 2016 about what would happen purely on a vote to leave (not actually leaving).

Is this not disaster enough ? https://www.bloomberg.com/quote/EURGBP:CUR  From € 1,40 till now € 1,125 or over 634Bn export, 18 % less revenues and over 665 Bn 18 % higher costs = a 200 BN difference in the disadvantage of the UK. And STILL the UK cannot compete with a 20% lower prices...