Putin, Erdogan strike deal to remove Kurdish YPG from Syria border

[webfact]

Putin, Erdogan strike deal to remove Kurdish YPG from Syria border

By Darya Korsunskaya and Tuvan Gumrukcu

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin shakes hands with Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan during a news conference following their talks in Sochi, Russia October 22, 2019. Sputnik/Alexei Druzhinin/Kremlin via REUTERS

 

SOCHI, Russia/ANKARA (Reuters) - Syrian and Russian forces will deploy in northeast Syria to remove Kurdish YPG fighters and their weapons from the border with Turkey under a deal agreed on Tuesday which both Moscow and Ankara hailed as a triumph.

 

The agreement expands on a U.S.-brokered truce which expired on Tuesday and underlines the dizzying changes in Syria since U.S. President Donald Trump announced a U.S. troop withdrawal two weeks ago ahead of Turkey's cross-border offensive.

 

Tuesday's deal endorses the return of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces to the border alongside Russian troops, replacing the Americans who had patrolled the region for years with their former Kurdish allies.

 

Under the agreement between Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, the two countries said Russian military police and Syrian border guards would start removing the YPG 30 km (19 miles) from the Turkish border on Wednesday.

 

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan both said on Tuesday they hoped to resolve positively "complicated issues in the region," as they met in Sochi on the sidelines of Russia-Africa forum. Francesca Lynagh reports.

 

Six days later, Russian and Turkish forces will jointly start to patrol a narrower, 10 km strip of land in the "safe zone" that Ankara has long sought in northeast Syria.

 

After six hours of talks with Erdogan in the Black Sea resort of Sochi, Putin expressed satisfaction at decisions he described as "very important, if not momentous, to resolve what is a pretty tense situation which has developed on the Syrian-Turkish border".

 

A senior Turkish official described it as an "excellent" deal which would achieve Turkey's long-held goal of a border strip cleared of the YPG, which Ankara regards as a terrorist organisation because of its links to insurgents inside Turkey.

 

Last week's U.S.-brokered deal, which technically expired at 1900 GMT on Tuesday, was limited the central part of the border strip between the Syrian towns of Tel Abyad and Ras al Ain, where Turkish forces had focused their military offensive.

 

Under the deal with Moscow, the length of border which the YPG would be required to pull back from is more than three times the size of the territory covered by the U.S.-Turkish accord, covering most of the area Turkey had wanted to include.

 

"The outcome of the Putin-Erdogan meeting in Sochi today indicates that Erdogan has become a master of leveraging the U.S. and Russia against each other to maximize Ankara's gains," Soner Cagaptay, director of the Turkish program at the Washington Institute said in a tweet

 

"Turkey got the safe zone it wanted all this time."

 

KURDISH WITHDRAWAL

U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, who helped negotiate the five-day ceasefire last Thursday, received a letter from the commander of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), saying their forces had withdrawn under that deal.

 

"Today the Vice President received a letter from General Mazloum (Kobani) notifying him that all SDF forces have withdrawn from the relevant area of operations," said Pence spokeswoman Katie Waldman. "The Vice President welcomes this development and sees it as having satisfied the terms of the 17 October agreement, as pertains to the withdrawal of the YPG."

 

An official from the Syrian Democratic Forces, which includes YPG fighters, later said the SDF commander "confirms that the SDF have withdrawn from ceasefire zone".

 

Before flying to Russia for the talks Erdogan had said hundreds of Kurdish fighters remained near to Syria's northeast border despite the truce demanding their withdrawal.

 

After the Sochi talks, Turkish broadcaster NTV quoted Erdogan as saying the United States "has not fully kept its promises" under last week's temporary truce.

 

The U.S. withdrawal from northern Syria has been criticized by U.S. lawmakers, including some of Trump's fellow Republicans, as a betrayal of Kurdish allies who have helped the United States fight Islamic State in Syria.

 

Trump said on Monday it appeared that the five-day pause was holding despite skirmishes, and that it might go past Tuesday's expiry, but Erdogan earlier had said the fighting may resume.

 

"If the promises given to us by America are not kept, we will continue our operation from where it left off, this time with a much bigger determination," he said before the Sochi agreement was struck.

 

Turkey sought a "safe zone" along 440 km (275 miles) of border with northeast Syria, but its assault focused on the two border towns in the centre of that strip, Ras al Ain and Tel Abyad.

 

Syrian and Russian forces have already entered two border cities, Manbij and Kobani, which lie within Turkey's planned "safe zone" but to the west of Turkey's military operations.

 

Erdogan has said he could accept the presence of Syrian troops in those areas, as long as the YPG are pushed out.

 

Russia is a close ally of Assad. Turkey has backed rebels seeking to oust Assad during Syria's more than eight-year-long civil war but has dropped its once-frequent calls for him to quit.

 

Ankara is holding covert contacts with Damascus, partly via Russia, to avert direct conflict in northeast Syria, Turkish officials say, although publicly the two governments remain hostile.

 

"Erdogan is a thief and is now stealing our land," Assad said during a rare visit to a separate frontline in Syria's northwestern Idlib region, the last major bastion of Turkey-backed rebels.

 

Some 300,000 people have been displaced by Turkey's offensive and 120 civilians have been killed, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based war monitor. It said on Sunday 259 fighters with the Kurdish-led forces had been killed, and 196 Turkey-backed Syrian rebels. Turkey says 765 terrorists but no civilians have been killed in its offensive.

 

(Reporting by Darya Korsunskaya and Tuvan Gumrukcu; additional reporting by Ali Kucukgocmen, Ezgi Erkoyun, Jonathan Spicer and Ece Toksabay in Istanbul, Humeyra Pamuk and Patricia Zengerle in Washington, Ellen Francis in Beirut, Ahmed Rasheed in Baghdad and Andrei Kuzmin in Moscow; Writing by Dominic Evans and Arshad Mohammed; Editing by Gareth Jones and Grant McCool)

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-23

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[sirineou]

If there was any doubt that trump was Putin's lap dog , it is gone now. IMO the whole thing was orchestrated from day one.

  This Spring we were going to fly from the US to Greece for easter, spend a week there and continue to Thailand for a few months. Usually we fly Turkish air to Istanbul , connect to Athens stay there a week, fly back to Istanbul and connect to  BKK, No way we are doing that now. The Kurds will be up in arms, and expect to see a major asymmetrical war attack very soon.I will be looking at Qatar airlines who have a similar attinuary from NYC.

[Jingthing]

The major loser in all this is the USA. Thanks to the impulsive rash actions of one person -- a U.S. president. Not his advisers. Not his cabinet. Not the pentagon. Not the congress of even his own party. Just him. America first? Nyet. Russia first. 

 

Nancy Pelosi was spot on recently with her quote -- All roads with you lead to Putin.

[ezzra]

The Jackal and the Hyena got together to dislodge and eradicate the Kurdish nation from their land, just like the Ottoman empire did to the Armenians and the Russians did to a countless of other nations last century buy barging in with brute force annihilating and disseminating a nation from existence, while Trump just looks on...

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

If there was any doubt that trump was Putin's lap dog , it is gone now. IMO the whole thing was orchestrated from day one.

Maybe it was orchestrated by Putin.

Trump is certainly not capable of thinking a couple of days ahead.

[nobodysfriend]

Putin's diplomacy gains on Trumps incapability to find satisfying solutions for political and humanitarian problems .

There was a reason why Putin wanted Trump to become POTUS .

Trump should be the manager of his golf resorts and his businesses , but he is not a diplomat .

[JCauto]

Say, where are all of our Trump friends on this thread? I thought this was just another example of utmost wisdom and stable genius. They should be extolling the Great Leader for his diplomatic coup d'etat. 

Must be pretty bad when even they can't spin this one to anything other than what it is - betrayal of an ally that lost blood for the USA in favour of dictators. Come on boys! Where's that MAGA spirit gone?

[Becker]

Putin has had permanent wood since the election of the man-child and it's easy to see why.

[Tug]

Putin must be so proud of his asset we must ask ourselves are we tired of winning yet if this is winning I’m tired of it please stop

[JamesBlond]

Good result.

 

It's a far-flung corner of Syria - Assad didn't win the civil war outright so this territory is arguably up for grabs. I doubt anyone could say who it rightly belongs to. As it's volatile, I say let it go to whoever can best keep the peace.

 

No problem with Russia's involvement - they are Turkey's neighbour - far more reasonable for them to be there than the US, just as we wouldn't expect Russia to get involved in Central America.

[chokrai]

Nice bunch of war-mongers on here. 

[jany123]

So a NATO ally has to depend on the enemy block for its peace and security.... just wonderful. C’mon America, wake up and impeach that buffoon... it’s the only way to MAGA!

 

 

[jany123]

1 hour ago, JamesBlond said:

 

No problem with Russia's involvement - they are Turkey's neighbour - far more reasonable for them to be there than the US, just as we wouldn't expect Russia to get involved in Central America.

Sure sure.... that’s why NATO and US troops have such a heavy footprint in Germany and other Russian neighbors, right? Your hero just ceded allied territory to the enemy

 

meanwhile... Central America? Think Nicaragua.... and... Russian forces have a presence in Venezuela, just to the south, so are already heavily invested in Latin America.

 

1 hour ago, chokrai said:

Nice bunch of war-mongers on here. 

Interesting comment. 1000 troops out of Syria.... 2000 troops into Saudi Arabia.... that’s some drawdown by Captain bone-spur... but then, as his multiple bankruptcies prove, math is not his strong suit. 

[alan grice]

Im sure this will be the topic of conversation amongst ExPats here for years to come[emoji481][emoji86]


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, alan grice said:

Im sure this will be the topic of conversation amongst ExPats here for years to come


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Come again?

[tifino]

1 hour ago, alan grice said:

Im sure this will be the topic of conversation amongst ExPats here for years to come


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

especially around the gutters of Pattaya

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, jany123 said:

 

 

Interesting comment. 1000 troops out of Syria.... 2000 troops into Saudi Arabia.... that’s some drawdown by Captain bone-spur... but then, as his multiple bankruptcies prove, math is not his strong suit. 

Those 1000 troops out of syria didnt go home. Trump lied again.

 

They went to iraq

[sammieuk1]

The liar and the novichoker in cahoots as the imitation Sultan Erdog try's to look important???? 

[JamesBlond]

3 hours ago, jany123 said:

Sure sure.... that’s why NATO and US troops have such a heavy footprint in Germany and other Russian neighbors, right? Your hero just ceded allied territory to the enemy

 

meanwhile... Central America? Think Nicaragua.... and... Russian forces have a presence in Venezuela, just to the south, so are already heavily invested in Latin America.

 

Okay, so Russia has dabbled a little in the geopolitics of Latin America, presumably by invitation - no combat though.

 

As to giving away allied territory, that's an inflammatory perspective. Why defend arbitrary lines on a map?

The atlas of the world I grew up with bears little resemblance to today's atlas. The world is still sorting itself out. Just because a border has been there for a while doesn't mean that it's a sensible one. You can keep a lid on things by force for a while, but this region is basically another Balkans.

 

Trying to defend the status quo for its own sake by war is pointless when the only solution is to let the world change a little. That inevitably involves population movement, but population movement causes the problem in the first place. If people didn't keep shifting about and stealthily expanding there would be far fewer conflicts in the world.

 

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Okay, so Russia has dabbled a little in the geopolitics of Latin America, presumably by invitation - no combat though.

 

As to giving away allied territory, that's an inflammatory perspective. Why defend arbitrary lines on a map?

The atlas of the world I grew up with bears little resemblance to today's atlas. The world is still sorting itself out. Just because a border has been there for a while doesn't mean that it's a sensible one. You can keep a lid on things by force for a while, but this region is basically another Balkans.

 

Trying to defend the status quo for its own sake by war is pointless when the only solution is to let the world change a little. That inevitably involves population movement, but population movement causes the problem in the first place. If people didn't keep shifting about and stealthily expanding there would be far fewer conflicts in the world.

 

 because these "imaginary lines" are not imaginary at all, they are there to separate one set of people from another, so that one set of people will not try and take what another set of people have worked hard to get.

  I wonder how you would feel someone took your wealth or freedom for their own purposes, I wonder if you would say ahh well  "let the world change a little "

 

[JamesBlond]

20 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 because these "imaginary lines" are not imaginary at all, they are there to separate one set of people from another, so that one set of people will not try and take what another set of people have worked hard to get.

  I wonder how you would feel someone took your wealth or freedom for their own purposes, I wonder if you would say ahh well  "let the world change a little "

 

Sure, that's the general intention of borders, but my point was that the 'borders' in this region were fairly arbitrarily drawn by a committee at one point in history. Quite often the line is simply a fence (or not even that) across a piece of land that looks identically barren on either side.

And clearly the borders in this region have done nothing to keep the ethnic populations apart, resulting in rising tensions. When that happens, conflict is inevitable to sort everything out. The reality is that you either have to keep the parties apart by proper borders (which I think is what Turkey is trying to achieve) or let them mingle and fight it out periodically because competition for resources - water and grazing land - (and for ethnic pride) is intense in this environment. Take your pick.

 

I'm not sure what it is you're actually proposing, unless it is avoid anyone having to move - but that is bleeding-heartist and will solve nothing.

 

If someone tried to displace me I would first ask myself who has the greater moral or historical right to be there, and if it wasn't me, I would move.

 

 

[jany123]

33 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Okay, so Russia has dabbled a little in the geopolitics of Latin America, presumably by invitation - no combat though.

No combat yet... maybe because the need has not presented itself, but there they are, dabbling in America’s back yard, contrary to the point of view earlier expressed

 

5 hours ago, JamesBlond said:

just as we wouldn't expect Russia to get involved in Central America.

Russia is involved, and captain bone-spurs has further enlarged their sphere of influence, wreaking both the US sphere and NATOs influence.

 

the Syrian debacle was a US led NATO operation, and dunderklumppens betrayal of a friend demonstrates that the US is an unreliable partner in any geopolitical enterprise.

 

36 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Why defend arbitrary lines on a map?

The atlas of the world I grew up with bears little resemblance to today's atlas.

I’m sorry... but... what? Those “arbitrary lines” are oftentimes drawn in blood... but the question should actually be : why assist allies and friends, in reference to the Kurds, and if that needs explaining, I’m shocked... and expect it’s more willful ignorance than true ignorance.

 

your comment about atlases makes me wonder what century you grew up in as world borders have changed very little since WW2

 

52 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Trying to defend the status quo for its own sake by war is pointless when the only solution is to let the world change a little.

 

and protecting borders... what? Would the US not protect its borders, and in need, would it not expect its friends and allies to support them in protecting its borders. With comments like that, I can’t help but wonder if you understand the purpose of alliances.

 

Perhaps the problem at the US southern border would go away if the US gave Texas and California back to Mexico. I recognize the stupidity of that sentiment... And holds true elsewhere... ie... its a stupid sentiment... one that’s heard said by the loser as it runs away. “It’s only a bit of dirt, let em have it if they want it!” 

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, JamesBlond said:

Sure, that's the general intention of borders, but my point was that the 'borders' in this region were fairly arbitrarily drawn by a committee at one point in history. Quite often the line is simply a fence (or not even that) across a piece of land that looks identically barren on either side.

And clearly the borders in this region have done nothing to keep the ethnic populations apart, resulting in rising tensions. When that happens, conflict is inevitable to sort everything out. The reality is that you either have to keep the parties apart by proper borders (which I think is what Turkey is trying to achieve) or let them mingle and fight it out periodically because competition for resources - water and grazing land - (and for ethnic pride) is intense in this environment. Take your pick.

 

I'm not sure what it is you're actually proposing, unless it is avoid anyone having to move - but that is bleeding-heartist and will solve nothing.

 

If someone tried to displace me I would first ask myself who has the greater moral or historical right to be there, and if it wasn't me, I would move.

 

 

a border is an internationally recognised  geographic location . I don't know what you mean by " proper borders" 

As far as arbitrarily drawn borders(agreed is a problem) applies just as much to Turkey as it does to the Kurds. Historically the region was not Turkish , the Turks are invaders who .....

"Turks arrived from Central Asia and Western China and settled in the Anatolian basin in around the 11th century through the conquest of Seljuk Turks, mixing with the peoples of Anatolia. The region then began to transform from a predominately Greek Christian one to a Turkish Muslim society. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people   

[JamesBlond]

8 minutes ago, jany123 said:

I’m sorry... but... what? Those “arbitrary lines” are oftentimes drawn in blood... but the question should actually be : why assist allies and friends, in reference to the Kurds, and if that needs explaining, I’m shocked... and expect it’s more willful ignorance than true ignorance.

 

your comment about atlases makes me wonder what century you grew up in as world borders have changed very little since WW2

 

 

and protecting borders... what? Would the US not protect its borders, and in need, would it not expect its friends and allies to support them in protecting its borders. With comments like that, I can’t help but wonder if you understand the purpose of alliances.

 

Perhaps the problem at the US southern border would go away if the US gave Texas and California back to Mexico. I recognize the stupidity of that sentiment... And holds true elsewhere... ie... its a stupid sentiment... one that’s heard said by the loser as it runs away. “It’s only a bit of dirt, let em have it if they want it!” 

 

If you're shocked at realpolitik and human nature I guess being in shock is your normal state.

You haven't noticed all the border changes in the developing (especially post-colonial) world since WWII? Whole new countries have been formed in some cases, even in Europe. Point is, it's naive to assume the world has reached a point at which there is to be no more change allowed and that everything must now be set in aspic, simply because first-worlders, who have got everything they need thanks, are afraid of the idea of conflict. The first world has been sorted out over the centuries - but that cost war along the way too, and plenty of it. The developing world is still thrashing it out. 

 

[JamesBlond]

 

24 minutes ago, sirineou said:

a border is an internationally recognised  geographic location . I don't know what you mean by " proper borders" 

As far as arbitrarily drawn borders(agreed is a problem) applies just as much to Turkey as it does to the Kurds. Historically the region was not Turkish , the Turks are invaders who .....

"Turks arrived from Central Asia and Western China and settled in the Anatolian basin in around the 11th century through the conquest of Seljuk Turks, mixing with the peoples of Anatolia. The region then began to transform from a predominately Greek Christian one to a Turkish Muslim society. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_people   

Proper border = defensible and impermeable border between territories of different ethnicities sufficient to ensure the security of both parties. When populations have mingled or the borders have been arbitrarily drawn, the borders are fairly meaningless.

Correct that Turkey absorbed that part of Kurdistan centuries ago. I don't think the Kurds were native to the desert corner of Syria under discussion for so long though.

It's a real mess. I think Turkey's solution, which is to at least drive a wedge between the parties, is best.

 

[sirineou]

10 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

Proper border = defensible and impermeable border between territories of different ethnicities

When was there ever, and impermeable border? borders are jus as good as the ability of both countries to defend them as this incident clearly shows.

 

13 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

borders have been arbitrarily drawn, the borders are fairly meaningless.

 They might be unfair , but they are not meaningless.

16 minutes ago, JamesBlond said:

 I don't think the Kurds were native to the desert corner of Syria under discussion for so long though.

If they are not, then neither are the Turks, so what makes the Turks claim more relevant than the Kurds?

[JamesBlond]

52 minutes ago, jany123 said:

I’m sorry... but... what? Those “arbitrary lines” are oftentimes drawn in blood...

 

In this case though I think they were drawn with a marker pen.

[JamesBlond]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If they are not, then neither are the Turks, so what makes the Turks claim more relevant than the Kurds?

The Turks are not claiming the territory, only trying to clear a corridor free of Kurdish insurgents in order to secure their own border. Given the amount of Kurdish terrorism in Turkey over the years (which doesn't often reach world news) I think it is a legitimate objective.

[Mavideol]

10 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

Putin's diplomacy gains on Trumps incapability to find satisfying solutions for political and humanitarian problems .

There was a reason why Putin wanted Trump to become POTUS .

Trump should be the manager of his golf resorts and his businesses , but he is not a diplomat .

you are correct, not a diplomat  555 the master of the deal that stabs his allies in the back

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, JamesBlond said:

The Turks are not claiming the territory, only trying to clear a corridor free of Kurdish insurgents in order to secure their own border. Given the amount of Kurdish terrorism in Turkey over the years (which doesn't often reach world news) I think it is a legitimate objective.

  is a peoples defence of their inalienable right of self determination and resistance to occupation by a foreign invader   Terrorism?