Mandatory health insurance for retirees falls flat as ‘Non-Imm O’ visa loophole exposed

[Yadon Toploy]

8 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

If Thailand wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to be serious; at the moment, it seems to be a third-world, banana republic spouting nonsense entity.

 

It is not a good look...

 

 

It was always thus.

 

Always been a joke and always will be.

[sirineou]

Can you apply for a Non-imm O visa if you are not married to a Thai?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

 What do you find confusing about it? Has to be the easiest new immigration policy I have seen

problem is Thai Visa where "newbie" trolls pepper the threads with wild stories and the scare mungers push it to 20 pages long

 

NOTHINg has changed unless you can provide a link to the contrary then I will happily admit Im wrong...link please?

 

I'm talking about probably a dozen different reports in various threads by members here being told by their local Immigration offices lately that the new rule either will apply to ongoing extensions of stay based on prior O-As and/or previously issued O-A for future entries. And those are NOT from newbie trolls, but from many long-time members here.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Toadie]

Does anyone know when and we have to provide a urine sample?

[Andrew Dwyer]

Does anyone know when and we have to provide a urine sample?

After the 3rd pint then every 10 minutes from then on .

[pagallim]

39 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm talking about probably a dozen different reports in various threads by members here being told by their local Immigration offices lately that the new rule either will apply to ongoing extensions of stay based on prior O-As and/or previously issued O-A for future entries. And those are NOT from newbie trolls, but from many long-time members here.

 

You need to seriously get a grip.   An OA visa is issued external to Thailand with a well defined qualification criteria.   Now that visa requires that applicants have health insurance to a certain level because the applicant may not have 400,000 baht in the bank in Thailand.   This visa has financial requirements, proof of which may be required on application.

 

The typical retiree here has an O visa, and an extension based on retirement.   We all know what the qualifications for that are.   I think everyone affected by now understands that if going the money in the bank route, there has to be a minimum of 400,000 baht in your account for the whole year.

 

Seriously folks, what is there not to understand?

 

 

[MaxLee]

10 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Mandatory health insurance for retirees falls flat as ‘Non-Imm O’ visa loophole exposed

I hope that TM 30 will also "fall flat" because someone "LOOPED a Hole in the visa"

[luckyluke]

7 hours ago, madmen said:

dont know any country where the pension = 65k baht using the income method

Belgium,

my  pension, as being married, is 2244 Euro net (currently something like 74000 Thb ). 

 

But of course, for some, Belgium is a non-country. 

Edited October 27, 2019 by luckyluke

[55Jay]

So there we have it.  A Thai I/O plonker in Phuket has finally discovered the mind-blowing loophole in the policy from the puzzle palace in Bangkok Immi HQ.  

 

And so those monkeys in BKK will feel slighted, and upstaged, that they were so fk'ing stupid as to over look this loop hole.  Guess what happens next.

 

So thanks to that putz in Pattaya who went to Jomtien Immigration office last week to ask for clarification about a question which needed no clarification at all, and thus, planted the idea in the brains of these opportunists.  The I/O was like, "Oh, yeah, insurance, of course you need it, I saw that somewhere on Facebook!"  And then our man went back to his flat block and told his mates sat around the swimming pool, and they spread it around on TVF.  And there you go.

 

Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.

Edited October 27, 2019 by 55Jay

[unamazedloso]

so my guess is non o spouse will now require insurance? If that happens im forced to leave Thai. I cant get it cuz of underlying issues. My family hates Thailand anyway, we only stay because the kids are im school, own a house, cars, etc... 

[madmen]

3 hours ago, luckyluke said:

But of course, for some, Belgium is a non-country. 

Have another pickled herring and relax

[madmen]

24 minutes ago, unamazedloso said:

so my guess is non o spouse will now require insurance?

??

[elviajero]

9 hours ago, lkv said:

I strongly assure you, that yours is wrong.

 

If you look at the headers of the files i attached, you will clearly see: 

 

Application for Change of Visa (TM86)

Application for Visa (TM87)

 

Both applied for at the Immigration Bureau and addressed to the Immigration Officer

So you are basing your opinion on the "headers of the files"!

 

As I have already advised you both forms are to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa. It says so on the forms ("I wish to apply for a non-immigrant visa"). They are used for anyone that does not already have a Non-immigrant Visa.

• You can change from a Tourist Visa to a Non-Imm Visa using TM.86.
• You can apply for a Non-Imm visa from a Visa Exempt Entry using TM.87.
• Neither form can be used to change from a Non-Imm O-A to a Non-Imm O. FACT.

 

You seem to be confusing type of visa and category of visa.

• Type of visa = Tourist, Non-Immigrant.
• Category of visa = O, O-A, B, etc.

 

To clarify; It is not possible to change from one category of Non-Imm visa to another at immigration.

 

The proof: There are countless reports of immigration sending existing Non-Imm visa holders out of the country to get a new Non-Imm visa when it's necessary for an extension based on a specific category of Non-Imm visa.

 

And, you will not find one single report from anyone that has been offered, or applied for a 'replacement' Non-Imm visa issued by immigration. There is no form or procedure that allows it. The only way the category of a Non-Imm visa can be changed is by the MFA in Bangkok. They only do that if the visa was issued by consular services in error.

 

In order to get an extension stay permit you need; 1. Non-Imm visa 2. The right category of Non-Imm visa. To get a retirement extension you can use either an O or O-A category visa. There would be no logical reason for immigration to go through an application for a new Non-Imm O visa when the applicant already has a qualifying O-A visa.

 

So unless you can back up your opinion with one report of someone changing the visa category by having a replacement Non-Imm visa issued, I will stick to the fact that immigration don't and won't do it.

 

I'll leave you with this: "However, like Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn, Lt Col Worapol also avoided expressly confirming that foreigners can change their visa status from Non-Immigrant O-A to Non-Immigrant O". They didn't because you can't. And it's highly unlikely that the top brass will change the rules so that expats can get around the compulsory insurance that they've introduced. The only way to do that is to leave the country, get a new Non O, and start the extension process from scratch.

Edited October 27, 2019 by elviajero

[Chazar]

Theyll fix  it to say EVERYONE  must have insurance, its what theyve been waiting for.

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

Have another pickled herring and relax

Pickled herring,

not really something for Belgian people. 

 

More for The Netherlands, and the Scandinavian countries. 

 

But so far, we Belgians are relax here in Thailand, no need to park any money on a Thai bankbook, no need to transfer monthly 65000 Thb, to get an extension. 

 

Some countries are not that fortunate. 

[Destiny1990]

There are always loopholes here so what is the problem?

[John1012]

16 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

The insurance is supposed to be for those who apply for an O/A visa after 31 Oct 19 and extend here.   Those who have  been here on an O/A visa in the past and are on an extension to stay now do not need the insurance.  Why can't be Immigrations Chiefs read their own Police Report.  What the hell is the matter with these people.

IQ?

[jlwilliamsjr18]

16 hours ago, smedly said:

There's so much that's being overlooked in the retirement process.  One is US (65+) and Canadians need only have enough funds to return to their home countries to receive medical treatment.  Another overlooked item is credit cards. If a retiree has a credit card with at least 100K Baht (increased for medical, upon request) would cover a many medical needs or the airfare to depart.  One more item is health insurance is pretty null for those of us over 65 and yes impossible for 75+.  I'm sure many of us are here for legitimate reasons and have been here a long time.  As for those old barflies, yes weed those out. 

 

Also, people who have chosen to retire here now have an age limit of 75 because they will never get the insurance past that age.

 

There are other more simple options 

 

- hold a permanent bank balance of Baht 400,000 for all those on 12 month extension

or

- Let those on 12 month extension pay into the Thai public health system

or

- just not allow people to retire here (many are/will be leaving anyway)

 

[justin case]

let us not forget in thailand, ever IO has the discretion to interprete LAWS how the hell they want...

 

soon you will see, denied visa, even haven right papers, insurance and some other <deleted>

 

if I could leave, I would ...

 

I can't, I take care of my daughter and ex-wife don't let her leave for home country...

 

and I am not leaving my daughter behind with THE DEVIL

[LazySlipper]

17 hours ago, smedly said:

Let those on 12 month extension pay into the Thai public health system

Impossible to do unless you work, or worked, for a Thai company that offers social security.

 

[chrisinth]

14 hours ago, elviajero said:

You can't change the category of Non Immigrant Visa. You would have to leave the country and get a now Non O, or enter as a tourist and apply for a Non O in-country.

Not trying to be confrontational but a serious question..............

 

If what you wrote above is correct, then why has this been an issue in the first place where a holder of an O-A changing to extension of stay (retirement) was worried that the original non-O (O-A) would still need proof of insurance?

 

If what you say is correct then the extension of stay would be based on a non-O so there wouldn't be any issue? Does that make sense of have I got this totally wrong?

[rexall]

16 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Why does this Thai administration keep showing how stupid they can be and then insist on being even more stupid?Don't they care about losing face?Are they trying to create yet another HUB?

Ah, ha!  That's the rub!  What many Thais believe causes them to lose face is often entirely different from what outsiders consider a loss of face.  No "face penalty" in Thailand for stupid, foolish regulations which are implemented without being thought through. No loss of face for corruption. No loss of face for inconsistency. Etc.

[jesimps]

17 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Then why is there insurance for a Non-O-A either? Both have the same financial requirements...

 

Has this all been (yet another) exercise in nonsense? Like the nosy information form? Or, is this even more wrong information?

 

If Thailand wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to be serious; at the moment, it seems to be a third-world, banana republic spouting nonsense entity.

 

It is not a good look...

 

 

My understanding is that Non O-A need to have the equivalent of 800,000 baht in a bank in your home country, whereas the Non-O requires the money to be in a Thai bank and therefore available for medical treatment payments if necessary. I could be wrong.

[holy cow cm]

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

So you are basing your opinion on the "headers of the files"!

 

As I have already advised you both forms are to apply for a Non-Immigrant visa. It says so on the forms ("I wish to apply for a non-immigrant visa"). They are used for anyone that does not already have a Non-immigrant Visa.

• You can change from a Tourist Visa to a Non-Imm Visa using TM.86.
• You can apply for a Non-Imm visa from a Visa Exempt Entry using TM.87.
• Neither form can be used to change from a Non-Imm O-A to a Non-Imm O. FACT.

 

You seem to be confusing type of visa and category of visa.

• Type of visa = Tourist, Non-Immigrant.
• Category of visa = O, O-A, B, etc.

 

To clarify; It is not possible to change from one category of Non-Imm visa to another at immigration.

 

The proof: There are countless reports of immigration sending existing Non-Imm visa holders out of the country to get a new Non-Imm visa when it's necessary for an extension based on a specific category of Non-Imm visa.

 

And, you will not find one single report from anyone that has been offered, or applied for a 'replacement' Non-Imm visa issued by immigration. There is no form or procedure that allows it. The only way the category of a Non-Imm visa can be changed is by the MFA in Bangkok. They only do that if the visa was issued by consular services in error.

 

In order to get an extension stay permit you need; 1. Non-Imm visa 2. The right category of Non-Imm visa. To get a retirement extension you can use either an O or O-A category visa. There would be no logical reason for immigration to go through an application for a new Non-Imm O visa when the applicant already has a qualifying O-A visa.

 

So unless you can back up your opinion with one report of someone changing the visa category by having a replacement Non-Imm visa issued, I will stick to the fact that immigration don't and won't do it.

 

I'll leave you with this: "However, like Phuket Immigration Chief Col Kathathorn, Lt Col Worapol also avoided expressly confirming that foreigners can change their visa status from Non-Immigrant O-A to Non-Immigrant O". They didn't because you can't. And it's highly unlikely that the top brass will change the rules so that expats can get around the compulsory insurance that they've introduced. The only way to do that is to leave the country, get a new Non O, and start the extension process from scratch.

I would gather you are correct. They are not going to do it as it makes zero sense. But to change premise for say retirement to marriage it can be done but even this I would say they will not easily do it as is too different. But say like for family to marriage it is sort of the same and even IO's have asked me before why don't we just flip to that during the extension process, probably because the paper work is easier than the family. Because we did not want to do it. But the issued visa of Non O or Non OA will stay intact as it is ludicrous they would even consider it. Even if I was an IO I would say no. So really there is only the loop hole of going outside and obtaining the change, but then again Non O's are becoming less and less being harder to get nowadays. And then I would gather the Consulates and Embassies will just deny the Non O and say get an O-A.

Edited October 28, 2019 by holy cow cm

[holy cow cm]

I think the terminology of loophole is being used incorrect here. It will catch up with itself or they will just leave it alone and close it up making it quite more difficult for just any Tom- Dick or Harry or Sally to get one. No disrespect CM Sally. But in the end I do hope they grandfather the old holders of the Non O. 

[newatthis]

10 minutes ago, jesimps said:

My understanding is that Non O-A need to have the equivalent of 800,000 baht in a bank in your home country, whereas the Non-O requires the money to be in a Thai bank and therefore available for medical treatment payments if necessary. I could be wrong.

But be careful there. The money in the Thai bank can not drop below 400,000 for the whole year; otherwise there could be a refusal of extension.

[sqwakvfr]

“My understanding is that Non O-A need to have the equivalent of 800,000 baht in a bank in your home country, whereas the Non-O requires the money to be in a Thai bank and therefore available for medical treatment payments if necessary. I could be wrong”

 

I have money in a foreign bank and several credit cards issued by foreign banks.  I have little money in a Thai Bank.  I have paid for medical and dental services in LOS for years without any difficulty.  Where one keeps his or her money is not very important in terms of paying expense.  Thai Hospitals have gladly accepted my foreign credit card when it comes time to pay.  

 

Therefore, I respectfully disagree with the above statement.  

[SpokaneAl]

Following.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DUNROAMIN]

Oooops, their onto us, dam who turned on the light.

[ExpatLife]

I know of certain people who have never filled out a TM30 in 10 or so years, and I assume if this insurance thing went through, the Thai system would not be able to keep track of everyone. It depends where you live and the immigration department in that area I assume