Jingthing Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 A global rank of 60 isn't great but it isn't horrible either. The top rank was Iceland and the lowest was Tajikistan (174th). I said ONLY 60th because I think most people would guess the ranking for Thailand would be higher. You know, the usual, but look at all the ladyboys kind of superficial observation. This is from an institute that has been studying this topic since the 1980's. It's not based on a quickie poll but on extensive research. The link: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/GAI-Update-Oct-2019.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNXexpat Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I saw ladyboys, girls with tomboys as friend and gay men working everywhere, including the immigration office in Chiang Mai, fully respected from everybody. I can´t believe this ranking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, CNXexpat said: I saw ladyboys, girls with tomboys as friend and gay men working everywhere, including the immigration office in Chiang Mai, fully respected from everybody. I can´t believe this ranking. Yes, like I said I think most people will be surprised at how low it is. But Thailand was evaluated based on that institute's process like all the other countries and the highest and lowest rated countries certainly are not surprising at all. The full chart as well as trends over time is in the link. Scroll down for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Dwyer Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Just out of interest , and without reading all the link ,nearly all the graphs show a peak at years 1992, 2003 and 2005 . What happened at these times to create those peaks ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 This ranking is pure nonsense, and quite obviously does not take into account local culture. I have never seen a country or a society that is more accepting of ladyboys (transexuals please) than Thailand. In the US people would be aghast if they walked into a government office or department story and were helped by a transexual. Here, it is no big deal at all. I know families where the young boy of 9 is already wearing dresses. Not a big deal. In the US? Forget about it. There is only a relatively small percentage of the population that is accepting of this kind of thing in the US. Same applies to gay and lesbian culture. Especially those who call themselves "religious". They are the least tolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puchaiyank Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 You have to be kidding...transgender gainfully employed everywhere...TV shows glorifying Transgender people and lifestyle... What other country in the world are transgender people so visible and accepted? Thailand No 1 ! ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junenorm Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I thought Thailand would rank higher, like at least in Top 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The acceptance (or is it tolerance?) (there is a big difference) of transgender people does not necessarily equate to LGBT rights, acceptance across a number of social domains, such as employment, housing, law, equality, discrimination . We should remember that being a transgender female or male does not necessarily mean the person self identifies as being transgender. Gender and sexual orientation are both complex psychological and social matters Thanks for posting the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin case Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 many thai parents will kick out their children when they say they are gay you know, not getting the expected sin sod and others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundas Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 That's rigorous research. Thanks for posting the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 I have a few comments at this point. I haven't read the entire report but I plan to read more of it to understand their process. I think people are focusing too much on the superficial on this issue. They don't really know how the Thais actually feel, LGBT and others. They might not show homophobia in overt ways very much such as in many other cultures but that doesn't mean it isn't there. The focus on transgender people is only one part of this too,. Transgender women in Thai society seem to feel pressured limit themselves to a very narrow number of professions, some of them illegal. That indicates that there is more to the story than mere numbers and visibility. Also I think a real clue is RELIGION. I recall another survey saying that Thailand is the most religious country in the world. Mostly Buddhist of course. Now what do Thai Buddhists believe about gay people? I don't know exactly because I'm not Thai or a Buddhist but I have heard that they believe that similar to traditional feelings about handicapped people that it's a PUNISHMENT for being bad in previous lives. If that's true (others can comment on that) let that sink in on what Thais actually think about LGBT people. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krataiboy Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Few of us, I suspect, will be surprised to learn that the least LGBT-tolerant nations are those where an Islamic ideology prevails. What arguably IS surprising is the continuing willingness of Western societies to throw down the welcome mat for millions of immigrants with views on human sexuality and numerous other important issues inimical to our own. One of Theresa May's last acts as UK Prime Minister was surreptitiously to sign the British people up to the UN's Migration Pact. (And no, she didn't offer us a referendum before putting pen to paper). Other EU leaders followed suit. The results of this collective folly will eventually speak for themselves - most likely via wailing loudspeakers mounted on minarets. Demographics indicate that a number white indigenous populations across Europe could eventually end up minorities in their own backyards before the turn of the century. This is already the case in London and several other UK towns and cities, where Muslim activists are calling for the introduction of Sharia law. One can't help but wonder what the international "tolerance league table" will look like in 2119! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinsdale Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 As long as they're Thai they'll be accepted well above us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneMoreFarang Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 I once spoke with a manager in Thailand about this. He was the GM of a big hotel in Bangkok before he had a sex reassignment surgery. According to her LGBT Acceptance in Thailand is high for many people and in many jobs. But the acceptance in top jobs is not high. And when I think about the higher managers who I met until now in Thailand I can confirm what she said. There are lots of LGBT people in "normal" jobs. But very few in top jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob12345 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Define "top jobs". Managing people, high pay, or promoted by others? I personally know several (cannot be counted on 1 hand) openly gay, trans, lesbian, and tomboy doctors working in private and public hospitals. Some specialized, some with a PhD of a top american university. As far as i know they are well-respected by the people around them, including patients. But possibly the medical sector is a bit different and more understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesimps Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Probably because there're now far too many letters to try to work out their gender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 47 minutes ago, jesimps said: Probably because there're now far too many letters to try to work out their gender. Only one of the letters in the study is about gender identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfd101 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 When my b/f (40 yrs younger than me) and I got 'hitched' in a Khmer village ceremony here in Surin in 2013, I inquired - as things were being organized - whether a monk would be officiating. I was told No, monks are for death not marriage. I then inquired what Buddhism had to say on the matter. The village response was a collective shrug of the shoulders (which I took to mean Who cares?) but was also told that the Buddhist view is that "Marriage is for two people who love each other" without further distinction. Since then we encounter gay men & women frequently here in rural Thailand, but mostly in 'middle class' occupations (notably doctors - a similar high proportion as in The West, & travellers passing thru by car & stopping to eat ... ). As in other countries (eg Oz) the gay rural teenagers mostly leave for the cities and don't or seldom return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zikomat Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Thailand, theoretically, should be amongst the first 5 spots. But this is a deeply hypocritical society. They pretend accepting something while deep inside they don't. Same can be applied to how they think about Farangs. The fact that they don't openly confront us does not mean they accept us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, Zikomat said: Thailand, theoretically, should be amongst the first 5 spots. But this is a deeply hypocritical society. They pretend accepting something while deep inside they don't. Same can be applied to ho8w they think about Farangs. The fact that they don't openly confront us does not mean they accept us. I wouldn't put it quite like that but you're getting close to what I was talking about before. That this goes deeper than superficial appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Part of my job was to hire and fire employees. Gay employees were always a contentious issue. At one point I was told to not hire anyone who was gay. At another time, I was told to fire those who were gay. I did ask about how I was to ascertain whether or not they were gay? It wasn't a part of the interview process and generally people didn't talk about their sexual preferences just didn't come up. I was told to start with those who 'acted' gay, so I took one of the most exceptional employees and said that maybe we should get rid of him because he 'acted' gay. I was told that person would be too hard to replace! Another person I brought up was related to the owner, so that was a 'no-go' as well. I never did fire anyone for being gay, but they were occasionally told to 'butch it up' when the owner was around. The point is that they had zero protection from being arbitrarily fired simply for being perceived as being gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 This "study" is, most likely, a post graduate thesis. Odds are that the authors have never experienced most of the cultures examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 30, 2019 Author Share Posted October 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Curt1591 said: This "study" is, most likely, a post graduate thesis. Odds are that the authors have never experienced most of the cultures examined. Two things. Their process is explained in the report. No. It's most certainly not a graduate thesis. It's the product of a think tank that as you can read has been exploring these issues using their process for decades. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/mission/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 53 minutes ago, Jingthing said: Two things. Their process is explained in the report. No. It's most certainly not a graduate thesis. It's the product of a think tank that as you can read has been exploring these issues using their process for decades. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/mission/ Who do you think the "institute's" "experts" are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fex Bluse Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 10:30 PM, CNXexpat said: I saw ladyboys, girls with tomboys as friend and gay men working everywhere, including the immigration office in Chiang Mai, fully respected from everybody. I can´t believe this ranking. I can believe the ranking. Ladyboys are "accepted" in Thailand but only amongst certain part of the Thai population (lower parts). You will NEVER see one in a proper corporate setting, and the Thai Chinese that dominate business in Thailand have very low acceptance of transgender, gay, lesbian, etc. Also, I would say Thais are generally not accepting so much as they are apathetic - they just don't care as long as it doesn't affect them. You will not see them incorporating ladyboys or gays or lesbians into society proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Curt1591 said: Who do you think the "institute's" "experts" are? See the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Fex Bluse said: I can believe the ranking. Ladyboys are "accepted" in Thailand but only amongst certain part of the Thai population (lower parts). You will NEVER see one in a proper corporate setting, and the Thai Chinese that dominate business in Thailand have very low acceptance of transgender, gay, lesbian, etc. Also, I would say Thais are generally not accepting so much as they are apathetic - they just don't care as long as it doesn't affect them. You will not see them incorporating ladyboys or gays or lesbians into society proper. In any case I think it's clear by now there are reasons that it wouldn't be in the very top tier like 10th or 20th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 33 minutes ago, Jingthing said: See the link. • Legal Scholars• Economists• Demographers• Social Scientists• Public Health Experts All clear now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJRS1301 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Scott said: Part of my job was to hire and fire employees. Gay employees were always a contentious issue. At one point I was told to not hire anyone who was gay. At another time, I was told to fire those who were gay. I did ask about how I was to ascertain whether or not they were gay? It wasn't a part of the interview process and generally people didn't talk about their sexual preferences just didn't come up. I was told to start with those who 'acted' gay, so I took one of the most exceptional employees and said that maybe we should get rid of him because he 'acted' gay. I was told that person would be too hard to replace! Another person I brought up was related to the owner, so that was a 'no-go' as well. I never did fire anyone for being gay, but they were occasionally told to 'butch it up' when the owner was around. The point is that they had zero protection from being arbitrarily fired simply for being perceived as being gay. Was this before anti discrimination laws? Which country/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said: Was this before anti discrimination laws? Which country/ That was Thailand and started in 1997 and was still and issue up to the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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