Switch to Marriage from Retirement Extension of Stay based on old Non-OA Visa

[Pib]

With the recent police order change to section 2.22 which deals with "Retirement Extensions of Stay" where medical insurance is require if having a Non-OA visa as the basis for the retirement extension, if a person switches from a retirement extension of stay to a marriage extension of stay is insurance required? 

 

I'm assuming not since the section that deals with "Marriage Extension of Stay" was not changed to require any medical insurance.  And you can get a marriage extension of stay even with a Non-OA.

 

I have one each Thai wife for many decades so I could easy make the switch come next extension time unless that Non-OA from a decade ago requires a person to have to have insurance even for a marriage extension of stay.

 

[ubonjoe]

If you got an extension of stay based upon marriage if insurance was required for a extension based upon retirement it should not be required then.

Another post today about an immigration office telling a person they did not need insurance due to having a old OA visa entry.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, Pib said:

if a person switches from a retirement extension of stay to a marriage extension of stay is insurance required? 

 

The good part is, because of the timing of your extension cycle, you'll have many months for the details of all this to play out before having to go back to BKK CW to take care of business again...

 

Hopefully, unlike today, it will all be much clearer long before then.

[Sheryl]

17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If you got an extension of stay based upon marriage if insurance was required for a extension based upon retirement it should not be required then.

Another post today about an immigration office telling a person they did not need insurance due to having a old OA visa entry.

 

 

Pib in some cases offices that previously said insurance was needed in that situation are now saying otherwise so might be worth asking CW again in say a week or so, now that the effective date of the order has arrived

[Pib]

Bumping this topic to see if anyway successfully switched from an OA Retirement Extension of Stay which now requires medical insurance to an OA Marriage Extension of Stay which shouldn't require medical insurance based on the police orders.  

 

I was hoping to see some folks who have attempted this switch real world since 1 Nov 2019 but haven't seen any posts....maybe there have been some and I just missed them.

 

 

[steve187]

see here - https://bit.ly/35ZaSoQ

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, steve187 said:

see here - https://bit.ly/35ZaSoQ

That just leads to a google search list. Click the top links on the list and it just takes you to other TV threads which are asking the same question I'm asking....but I didn't see one post where some one said they successfully switched from there OA Retirement Extension of Stay to OA Marriage Extension of Stay....didn't see any either saying they were disapproved.

 

Some posts referenced it should be possible based on the police orders (like I stated in my opening post) but I didn't see one post of actually/successfully switching from an OA Retirement Extension to an OA Marriage Extension o/a 1 Nov 2019.

 

I looking for confirmation it's doable based on "someone actually doing it" o/a 1 Nov 2019.

[Sheryl]

I have seen one ir two were people tried and were unable to as the IO insusted insurance requirement still applied.

 

Also 1 or 2 of people beind told it can't be done (untrue) and must leave country to get O visa.

 

Best to ask CW.

[JimGant]

Pib, check these threads out. Apparently it can be done in CM, or at least one individual has been successful.

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1136781-marriage-extension/page/2/#comments

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1136904-getting-rid-of-non-o-a-specific-case/page/6/#comments

 

[Pib]

Due to Sheryl gently scolding me above I decided to spend Christmas Day at CW. ????  Well, not all day, just 6 hours split between round trip drive time (horrendous traffic) and long queue time at CW.   The long stay section at CW was packed, but other sections not so much. 

 

Since I have an OA Visa from 2008 (Christmas past) and 11 ensuring retirement extensions of stay based off that OA from Christmas past I wanted to ask a CW "immigration officer in the L1 (long stay) section" a few questions.  The L1 section is the section where you apply for an extension of stay.....the section that approves (or disapproves) extensions of stay.   At around 4:30pm this afternoon my queue number was called and I got a few minutes with a L1 section immigration officer and asked the following questions.

 

With my OA Visa from Christmas past can I switch from a retirement extension of stay to a "marriage extension of stay?"  The answer was Yes.   

 

With the OA Visa from Christmas past in my passport when applying for the "marriage extension of stay" will I need to have medical insurance.  The answer was No.

 

Now what I would like to see is some reports from people in my situation actually apply at CW for a marriage extension of stay with underlying OA Visa....to confirm what I was told today is true.  I expect some folks have but don't use or haven't reported such on ThaiVisa.  Yeap, looking forward to some real world confirmation of the answers I got today.    

 

Merry Christmas

 

 

 

 

 

[JimGant]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

With the OA Visa from Christmas past in my passport when applying for the "marriage extension of stay" will I need to have medical insurance.  The answer was No.

Makes sense..... You're here on a one-year extension of stay based on retirement -- and you need health insurance to prevent stiffing the hospital. But get a wife, and thus a one-year extension of stay based on marriage -- no health insurance required. Why? Because now you have a wife, who can remove your gall bladder, thus precluding any unpaid hospital bills..... Crazy <deleted>' bureaucracy. Sigh.

 

Nevertheless, I'm in the same boat as you Pib. So my next step will be to dust off my 40-year old Hawaii marriage certificate, fill in the blank US Consulate affidavit affirming marriage certificate is valid and that I'm still married, blah blah. Then, have affidavit and marriage certificate translated into Thai, with subsequent certification by the MFA. Then, final step, head for the Amphur for the Kor Ror 22 Thai marriage certificate. Does that sound about right?

 

Of course, after doing all that, the goal posts will once again move. Just sorry I sold our real estate in Oahu, as moving back there is now too expensive (and the congestion now really sucks). I'm getting too old for all this <deleted>.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, JimGant said:

I'm getting too old for all this <deleted>.

Then simply change over to a Non-Imm-O based Permission of Stay, and get a retirement extension on that. 

[oldcpu]

16 hours ago, Pib said:

With my OA Visa from Christmas past can I switch from a retirement extension of stay to a "marriage extension of stay?"  The answer was Yes.   

 

With the OA Visa from Christmas past in my passport when applying for the "marriage extension of stay" will I need to have medical insurance.  The answer was No.

 

Now what I would like to see is some reports from people in my situation actually apply at CW for a marriage extension of stay with underlying OA Visa....to confirm what I was told today is true.

I'm also looking for the same, albeit I suspect I have more time than you.

 

I have very good health insurance (far exceeds the 400k/40k) - but proving that is another matter.

 

I was issued a Type-OA on 27-March-2019 in Frankfurt Germany, and entered Thailand 10-May-2019, with my passport stamped for me to stay until 08-May-2020 (assuming I do all the 90-day reporting on time).  I plan to leave Thailand on ~12-Feb-2020, returning 1-March-2020, and hopefully than be stamped to stay until end-Feb-2021 with no Health Insurance proof needed (albeit this is speculative on my part and will likely depend on IO that I meet at the Phuket International airport on 1-March-2020).  I plan to leave Thailand again 16-March-2020, returning 17-April-2020, So while in Phuket from 1-to-16-March-2020, I then plan to go to Phuket immigration, apply for a multiple-re-entry to cover my flying in/out of Thailand until end-February-2021 (again hopefully with no need to prove health Insurance until then). 

 
Its possible I could end up changing my Visa in April-2020 to a Type-O (from a Type-OA) if I'm asked to prove health Insurance on 1-March or on 17-April-2020.

 

I have attempted to have my International Insurance company complete the Thai form for proving the Thai 400k/40k requirement (which my insurance significantly exceeds) is met by their International Insurance, but thus far my Insurance company has refused to do so, claiming they do not understand the Thai health insurance requirements as specified by Thailand.

 

Like you, as a contingency, since I have a Thai wife (married for 18-years) with our marriage only registered in Canada & Germany, I am looking to have our Canadian marriage registered here in Thailand, in the hope that may ease the proof of Health Insurance. 

 

We contacted a translation company in Bangkok, to see if they would translate my marriage licence (from Canada) and they advised Canadian marriage documents need to be verified by the Canadian Embassy (in person by the person in the married licence ), so I am likely headed to Bangkok in January to cover such.

 

In the mean time, I am curious to read of others experiences. 

[JimGant]

25 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Then simply change over to a Non-Imm-O based Permission of Stay, and get a retirement extension on that. 

Oh, you somehow believe those goal posts won't also move? At least a large segment of the marriage extension crowd are under age 50, thus be definition, healthier than those here on retirement extensions (and thus over age 50). So, I would expect *ALL* retiree extenders, regardless of Non Imm type visa, will feel the insurance crackdown before marriage extenders.

 

Having said that, the wife will probably die the day before I go for a marriage extension.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 hours ago, Pib said:

With my OA Visa from Christmas past can I switch from a retirement extension of stay to a "marriage extension of stay?"  The answer was Yes.   

 

With the OA Visa from Christmas past in my passport when applying for the "marriage extension of stay" will I need to have medical insurance.  The answer was No.

 

Pib, thanks again for another round of good detective work on this latest topic. But what a miserable way to spend one's Christmas Day.... at CW Immigration of all places. 

 

The answers you got are certainly the ones I would have expected ... no sane reason at present Immigration should be demanding health insurance for any marriage extensions, regardless of the visa type.  At least, as long as the CURRENT regulations don't get changed again.

 

Next fall, I suspect I'll be in a similar place to you and Jim, except for a different reason. In the fall, I expect I'll be planning to switch from a retirement extension to a marriage extension for the first time, but my underlying visa is a "B" business visa instead of an O-A, so not for the insurance reason.

 

In my case, I happen to have the requisite health insurance from an O-A program approved provider (Pacific Cross). But I'm simply planning to try to limit my Thai bank deposit exposure to the marriage extension's 400K, and not have to plunk another 400K more into a Thai bank account here to keep my retirement extension, now that the income affidavits have died, and I don't want to mess with the 12 monthly foreign transfers scheme as currently enforced.

 

Time to start snapping those photos of you and the wife sitting on the bed in your bedroom, and standing in front of the house number in front of your home, etc etc....    Besides, making the switch will make our wives more of an integral part of our CW Immigration experience each year, so they can enjoy it every bit as much as we do!!!!  

[TwentyBaht]

Pib,

 

I arrived here in 2007 on an O-A Visa and extended for reason of retirement until two years ago and then switched and extended for reason of marriage.  My third marriage extension was done this month.  And, no insurance requirement was asked for or even mentioned.  This was done in Chiang Rai Province.

 

Also, during my time here, two passports expired and new passports issued, the latest two years ago, and the new passport has an Immigration stamp showing original entry visa as O-A.

 

Also, would like to mention, your postings as to financial/banking matters have been of great help.  Thank you.

 

Best wishes. 

 

And, also thanks to ubonjoe for his postings as to immigration matters.  Also, a great help.

Happy Holidays to all     
 

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Oh, you somehow believe those goal posts won't also move?

I have to, I am uncomfortable with the idea of Thai immigration forcing me to get married. Nor would I want their intrusion into my life that particular Extension requires.

 

I tend to go along with UJ's thought-line, that the imposing of insurance obligation on O-A Extensions, was a bit of a mistake they can't back out of!

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

I was issued a Type-OA on 27-March-2019 in Frankfurt Germany, and entered Thailand 10-May-2019, with my passport stamped for me to stay until 08-May-2020 (assuming I do all the 90-day reporting on time).  I plan to leave Thailand on ~12-Feb-2020, returning 1-March-2020, and hopefully than be stamped to stay until end-Feb-2021 with no Health Insurance proof needed (albeit this is speculative on my part and will likely depend on IO that I meet at the Phuket International airport on 1-March-2020). 

I plan to leave Thailand again 16-March-2020, returning 17-April-2020, So while in Phuket from 1-to-16-March-2020, I then plan to go to Phuket immigration, apply for a multiple-re-entry to cover my flying in/out of Thailand until end-February-2021 (again hopefully with no need to prove health Insurance until then). 

 
Its possible I could end up changing my Visa in April-2020 to a Type-O (from a Type-OA) if I'm asked to prove health Insurance on 1-March or on 17-April-2020.

No speculation necessary.

When you return 1 March 2020, you will be stamped in for the full year that your Non Imm OA Visa entitles you to.  And there will be NO questions on entry/re-entry for health-insurance.

When your permission to stay based on your Non Imm OA Visa almost expires (end Feb 2021) and you apply for an extension of stay based on that Non Imm OA Visa for reason of retirement, only then the health-insurance requirement will kick in.

But it is quite simple to switch at that time from an OA Visa  to an O Visa based on retirement (provided by then the rules have not changed).  The requirements and conditions for both Visa are identical, except that the Non Imm O does NOT require health-insurance.

But you have 14 months before your Feb 2021 permission to stay will expire, so in mean time enjoy LoS.

Happy XMas.

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I have attempted to have my International Insurance company complete the Thai form for proving the Thai 400k/40k requirement (which my insurance significantly exceeds) is met by their International Insurance, but thus far my Insurance company has refused to do so, claiming they do not understand the Thai health insurance requirements as specified by Thailand.

Because the Foreign Health Insurance Certificate form refers to thai legislation (and requires the signatures of 2 directors of the insurance company), it is very difficult - almost impossible even - to get your foreign insurance company to sign it.

But you should not waste time/effort on trying that, because that particular Certificate (when you manage to get it signed) can ONLY be used when applying for the Non Imm OA Visa in a thai embassy/consulate in your home-country after 31 Oct 2019 (date the health-insurance requirement became effective).

But that Certificate (when you are able to get it) will NOT be accepted by your local IO when you end Feb 2021 would apply for an extension of stay of your Non Imm OA Visa.  IO only accepts health-insurance issued by one of the 12 thai-approved health-insurance companies and your thai policy also has to meet the IO requirements. 

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

ILike you, as a contingency, since I have a Thai wife (married for 18-years) with our marriage only registered in Canada & Germany, I am looking to have our Canadian marriage registered here in Thailand, in the hope that may ease the proof of Health Insurance.

In the last month before your permission to stay (Feb 2021) expires, you can apply for an extension of stay of your Non Imm OA Visa at your local IO.  When you apply for reason of retirement, the health-insurance requirement will kick in.  However, when you apply for reason of MARRIAGE, there is no need for health-insurance.  The latter has the additional Bonus that the financial requirements are approx halved compared with a retirement extension.  It does require quite some paperwork both from your side and from the local IO, but the rewards are high for you: no expensive and worthless thai-approved bogus health-insurance required, and way lower financials to prove),

Note: Some IOs are not happy with the extra paper-work a MARRIAGE extension application means for them, and look for excuses to have you do the application abroad - pure laziness and appaling behavior)

[Pib]

7 hours ago, JimGant said:

Nevertheless, I'm in the same boat as you Pib. So my next step will be to dust off my 40-year old Hawaii marriage certificate, fill in the blank US Consulate affidavit affirming marriage certificate is valid and that I'm still married, blah blah. Then, have affidavit and marriage certificate translated into Thai, with subsequent certification by the MFA. Then, final step, head for the Amphur for the Kor Ror 22 Thai marriage certificate. Does that sound about right?

Sounds right to me for a foreign marriage certificate, but I was married here in Thailand over 4 decades ago so all I need to do now is get a fresh Kor Ror 2 to accompany my old Thai marriage certificate (Kor Ror 3) issued  from the days of B-52s/U-2s/KC-135s at Utapao AB.  My marriage certificate was issued in Rayong province where Utapao is located.   

 

Anyway, several months ago in anticipation of switching from a retirement extension of stay to a marriage extension of stay regardless of me possibly killing off my OA Visa from Christmas past and getting a Non-O instead, I decided to do an operational test on getting a KR2 from my Bangkok local district office (or any local office) as the wife and I had never done that before....never had any need. 

 

Geting a KR2 is suppose to be quick, easy, and cheap (i.e., just a few minutes and maybe 10 baht)...get it an any district office in the country....and that's exactly correct "if" your marriage data is correct in the national database.   But Murphy's Laws struck.....Turns out our marriage record was not reflecting correctly in the database and such errors can only be corrected at the district office you got married. 

 

So, the wife and I do a day trip from Bangkok to Rayong....a 6 hour round trip drive doing pretty much 90 to 120KPH the great majority of way....then add-in a couple hours at the district office for them to dig out old marriage log books, make corrections in those books, and then update the national database.  Anyway, we got the errors corrected and got a KR2 at Rayong. 

 

Since you always need a "fresh" KR2 when applying for your annual marriage extension (to me fresh is not more than a week old) we went back to our local Bangkok district office to get a KR2 but couldn't because although the Rayong district office had indeed updated the national database turns out Rayong was already on the "new software system" that meant district offices still on the "old software system" can't fully read updates made on the new system. 

 

So our local district office gave us a list of 6 district offices in Bangkok who had been upgraded and we went there and was able to get a KR2 no problem....just takes a few minutes (excluding any queue time) and we were charged 10 baht for the fresh KR2.  And now my local district office has also been upgraded to the new software along with most other Bangkok district offices so we'll be able to get the KR2 quickly in the future "now that a 4.5 decades old error was corrected"...corrections can only be done at the office which issued the marriage certificate. 

 

So, the moral of this story is if anyone is thinking about switching to a marriage extension but you have never tried to get a KR2 before, well, you best go try to get a KR2 to ensure you can...ensure there are no errors in the national database....if there are errors you must trek back to the office originating the marriage certificate....which in accordance with Murphy's Laws will be an office far, far away.

 

[Pib]

7 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I have very good health insurance (far exceeds the 400k/40k) - but proving that is another matter.

 

I have attempted to have my International Insurance company complete the Thai form for proving the Thai 400k/40k requirement (which my insurance significantly exceeds) is met by their International Insurance, but thus far my Insurance company has refused to do so, claiming they do not understand the Thai health insurance requirements as specified by Thailand.

 

Me too...that is have very good foreign health insurance...have Tricare coverage which is US military coverage for active duty/retirees....coverage is worldwide or in another galaxy....unlimited coverage.  Been using it for decades...to include over a decade her in the Thailand for the wife and I. 

 

However, my excellent Tricare coveage is useless for "extension of stay purposes" under the new Thai immigration rule as only selected Thai insurance companies policies are acceptable.....high premium, low coverage, pre-existing conditions not covered, only coverage up to a certain age...and just other crappy things type Thai insurance.  When I say not acceptable I mean when going for extensions within Thailand...at a Thai immigration office.  If you are not on a OA retirement extension of stay and still operating on an unexpired OA visa like you and "if"  you can get that special formed signed by your foreign insurance company you should be good to go for maybe up to a year.  But as you said, getting your insurance company to sign the Thai govt/insurance docs is going to be the rarity as most companies simply will not sign such a form.

 

[Pib]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Next fall, I suspect I'll be in a similar place to you and Jim, except for a different reason. In the fall, I expect I'll be planning to switch from a retirement extension to a marriage extension for the first time, but my underlying visa is a "B" business visa instead of an O-A, so not for the insurance reason.

I have been thinking about switching to a marriage extension of stay every since they recently changed the Thai bank deposit requirements from just 800K three months before to 800K two months before and three months after and then no less than 400K for the remaining 7 of 12 months.  While I have used the Bt800K in a Thai bank for many years and just leave it setting there untouched throughout the year for extension of stay and BIG money emergency purposes I still don't like the new rule....it just rubs me wrong.  And then with the even more recent medical insurance rule, then that was enough to push me over the fence to the side of wanting to switch to a marriage extension of stay.  So, come around Sep 2020 that's what I will be doing...switching to a marriage extension on my current OA Visa from Christmas past or if necessary switch to a Non O Visa marriage extension of stay.  That's my current game plan unless the Thai govt move the goals posts again.