Shower trap/drain... Thai vs Western

[banagan]

Installing new shower/wet room. My brother, who's a builder, insists I need a shower trap. My builder says I need a regular drain and Thai handyman agrees.

I've tried to find a shower trap in Homepro, baan and beyond, local hardware and lazada, and can't find them.

So, I found this shower drain in my local hardware store, and they and Thai handyman says that this is fine, and what's used here.

 

So, is this all I need? Luxury Designed! 

[bankruatsteve]

Looks like a normal drain to me - the kind that lets the smell come in.  Others have posted a few different types of trap drains available, but can't remember where.  Boonthravorn would be a good place to check.

 

Edit: Just noticed that thing on the bottom.  What does that do?

Edited November 2, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[lopburi3]

Actually that is not the normal shower BR drain trap and is likely to fail due to hair buildup opening trap.  The normal unit is a water filled donut type which easily/self cleaning but may require adding water if not used for an extended period.

https://www.homepro.co.th/search?q=floor+drain

Edited November 2, 2019 by lopburi3

[gk10002000]

The Thais do not grasp or accept the idea of a U shaped drain and trap construction.  They consider that to just be a potential clogging point so they prefer the straight through pipe.  They don't understand the idea behind how the water at the bottom of the U can block smells.  They are more worried about the thing being clogged.  And given the way Thais don't maintain things, and pour just about anything they can or want down a drain, ... well

[timendres]

I agree with @lopburi3 that the BR "bell" donut trap is going to last much longer and be less of a headache than that plastic "flip" drain, which is likely to fail in year one. I find they are quite decent at keeping out smells, all things considered.

[banagan]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

I agree with @lopburi3 that the BR "bell" donut trap is going to last much longer and be less of a headache than that plastic "flip" drain, which is likely to fail in year one. I find they are quite decent at keeping out smells, all things considered.

I need a low profile trap.

 

What about something like this?

 

 

[timendres]

3 minutes ago, banagan said:

I need a low profile trap.

What about something like this?
 

I have seen this type of drain only once. So I have no experience with it's efficacy.

However, no moving parts and easy access for cleaning are crucial characteristics.

[legend49]

20 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

The Thais do not grasp or accept the idea of a U shaped drain and trap construction.  They consider that to just be a potential clogging point so they prefer the straight through pipe.  They don't understand the idea behind how the water at the bottom of the U can block smells.  They are more worried about the thing being clogged.  And given the way Thais don't maintain things, and pour just about anything they can or want down a drain, ... well

Agreed with above. I have 2 upstairs shower drains  with no P traps. This year because of poor rainfall the smell of the street drains comes up the pipe into the bathrooms. Of course having a suspended ceiling downstairs you would think easy access to fit a p trap. No Somchai did not put one inspection ceiling port in. So now I have to use house plans, tape measures and guestimate where to cut square holes in the ceilings to fit the ptraps.

[lopburi3]

Drains in post 3 are normally mounted from the top - no need for any access below.  Just dig out current hole to fit.  They also come in round format.  

[briando]

Your brother is correct 100%.It's not a good idea to rely on what a thai tells you about drainage.We just moved into our new house and the ensuite bathroom is almost unusable due to the smell.I'm not sure what went wrong as we were here every day watching them but it seems the floor drain and shower drains were connected to the septic.If we had put in traps it wouldn't matter where they are connected.We have the normal floor wastes that have a small amount of water in the bottom and they are useless if there is a problem.The other black floorwaste that someone sent a photo of would not work it seems to me as it doesn't seem to have a water seal.Fortunately our other two bathrooms are not so bad but I just wish I'd had the sense to insist traps were put on every waste pipe.

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, briando said:

We have the normal floor wastes that have a small amount of water in the bottom and they are useless if there is a problem.

Actually they work very well if as shown in post 3 and if water is in them and the cover is attached correctly to be below that water level.  Grey water should never run to septic tank however - do you have the proper vents on toilets and tank?

[rwill]

There are 2 types of floor drains that will work for keeping out odors and critters. 

 

One type like you have shown with the flap at the bottom that closes when no water is flowing.  I also used to have a similar type that used a spring to shut the flap, it sealed better but the spring wore out after about a year, and they seem hard to find now.

 

The other type uses water to seal.  There are some that hold very little water and evaporate real fast.  The ones with deeper tubes work better but your drain pipe has to go down straight for a few inches before turning to use them.  

[Sydebolle]

Rule Number One; Thai workers, builders, architects and other local experts cannot deal with electricity and water-related issues.

You get stainless steel floor drains in any bigger DIY centre. Make sure that the drainage pipe has a big enough diametre (nothing less than 2" or 50mm); the floor drain should have the same diametre at the bottom. Top roster (with an affixed "bell shaped" stainless steel cover) should cover the exit pipe in the main fitting to prevent stinky stenches from your septic tank. The top should be easy to remove for cleaning from soap residue, hair etc. 

Depending on where you are you have to ask various staff; usually there is always one around who knows the job and can explain you what it is all about. 

[agrow]

Sydebolle floor waste & grey water ie shower/bath/sink should not be going into your stinky septic tank .

[Medicine Man]

We have the same problem in our condo. Has anyone found a trap that can be retro fitted into the existing downpipe when there is only access from the floor space? Thanks

[The Theory]

23 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

They are more worried about the thing being clogged. 

Because they have no idea about “slop”. Drains need to have some slop and I have seen pipes that are not installed correctly and actually have slop against flow. That pipe will be clogged after some time. Or Just like some builders who have no idea about “vents”. 

[The Theory]

On 11/2/2019 at 1:46 PM, banagan said:

So, I found this shower drain in my local hardware store, and they and Thai handyman says that this is fine, and what's used here.

Don’t use that. That will cause trouble later. Not using of any trap would be safer than using of this “joke”. I would rather to use the trap that “Lopburi3” posted. 

[tifino]

interesting to know if that 'flip' type has any sort of 'float' closing ability? All very well that water from above opens the flap to let water drop; but what about backflow? 

 i think from this angle too as it's highly likely 'most' readers here , also have long haired Thai partners, who have infinite supplies of hair breaks... adding to fouling of any form of flaps/filters/grates... 

[khunPer]

On 11/2/2019 at 7:46 AM, banagan said:

So, I found this shower drain in my local hardware store, and they and Thai handyman says that this is fine, and what's used here.

 

So, is this all I need? Luxury Designed! 

Yes, your Thai handyman is right, that's what used here.

 

If you have more than one floor in your house, it's important that you also have a ventilation for the sewer pipes, and that must be above the top bathroom drain/floor, so any fumes head up there and out, and not inside you penthouse master bathroom...???? 

[The Theory]

You can find u-traps at SCG, if there is any in your area.

[bankruatsteve]

If you don't want to re-do your drain, I use a spare piece of tile and use that to cover after a shower.  A small plastic plate could do too.  It's not perfect, but it keeps most of the smell from coming up.  I just swipe it aside with my toe, take a shower, and swipe back - no big deal.

[GreasyFingers]

6 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Grey water should never run to septic tank however - do you have the proper vents on toilets and tank?

Can you tell me more. Am about to construct 2 new en suites and thought the grey water should go to the septic tank. Where should it go.

[sometimewoodworker]

42 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Can you tell me more. Am about to construct 2 new en suites and thought the grey water should go to the septic tank. Where should it go.

It should go into a separate system, that depending on where you live could feed into the same leach field as the black water septic tank, for us it just feeds directly into the banana plants.

 

if you are feeding into the black water system then that system will not have enough time to do it’s job 

[lopburi3]

56 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

Can you tell me more. Am about to construct 2 new en suites and thought the grey water should go to the septic tank. Where should it go.

As said above - depends on where you live - if in a city it often goes into the road drains.

[Captain 776]

100% useless, they only work od water is maintained in the inverted bell of the trap.

If you are doing the construction and have room, put in your own P trap........make one with elbows.

The builder built my whole house with those cheap bell traps.

They are outlawed in USA because they do not prevent sewer gas vapors from backing up the the drains.

I put an inline fan in the cover of my septic tank with a 4” PVC rise..........it exhausts all the fumes, nothing comes in the house.

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

Can you tell me more. Am about to construct 2 new en suites and thought the grey water should go to the septic tank. Where should it go.

Normally black water and grey water is separated here (in Thailand). Often a separate drain-tank/cesspool for grey water.

 

You might have three different sewers for a house here: black water septic tank and drain-tank/cesspool; grey water drain-tank/cesspool; and rain water drain-tank/cesspool, if rain water is not collected in a tank for reuse.

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, Captain 776 said:

100% useless,

not useless in my experience - have been using for 50 years and they do work.  In shower they will always have water (unless your a once a month bather) but in room they may indeed need water every few weeks (or less - normally humidity here is high enough to make this much less of a problem than elsewhere).  As for sewer gas nothing but venting prevents that.  

[KKr]

the deeper traps shown here are ok when used in a fibreglass shower basin.

However, most bathrooms here are tiled.
where I lived before, we poured concrete, flattened this for the shower basin,
Waterproofed the area and then poured thin cement as a base for tiling.
now, usually after some time, tiled floors start seeping water that then collects in the thin cement

there are traps available, however not that I have seen here, that are put into the waterproofed layer to catch the seeping water, and have a water collection tray at tile level.
(think at home depot but their website seems to be blocked for Thai / overseas users cannot find a link now.)

usually, construction workers here can't be bothered with the waterproofing, if your parquet floor next to the bathroom is uneven, think about where the shower water is seeping to.

Edited November 3, 2019 by KKr

[wayned]

When I built my house 20 years ago I made my own trap and put it in the drain pipe outside of the house where it could be dug up if it got clogged.  As said that was 20 years ago and there have been no clogs or stinky bathrooms.  Also keeps the critters out.

[canopy]

Building codes typically require the trap to be positioned directly below the drain.