O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, pookondee said:

...

And after the assurance that foriegn insurance was ok,

the officers on the ground are rejecting any policy NOT Thai,

possibly because of the main obvious  reason, they cannot read English..

...

When applying for an OA Visa in a Thai embassy/consulate in your home-country, foreign health-insurance was allowed when accompanied with a certificate that it met the thai requirements for health insurance.

However, that foreign health-insurance would only be useful the first year after entering Thailand. 

Because when applying for an extension of stay of your OA at a provincial IO the requirement states that it must be thai health-insurance.

 

So even with a certificate that your foreign health-insurance meets the thai HI requirements and which was approved by your home-country Thai embassy/consulate, when applying for an extension of stay such a certificate is not allowed according to the Police Order.

I am not a conspiracy adept, but this exclusion only benefits the exorbitantly priced policies of approved thai insurance companies.

 

 

[Mango Bob]

1 minute ago, AAArdvark said:

I am on year one of an O-A.  I will be re-entering at DMK on 26/11/19.  IF I am stopped due to lack of insurance, what happens next.  I need until 1/3/20 to either leave LOS or change to an O.  It seems that I would get a 30 stay of some kind.  What can I do to stretch this out until the end of February?

 

Does anyone know of Pacific Cross policies can be canceled?

Have you seen any company give you your money back it you return a product here in Thailand?

 

To be honest I don't think they do.  I have not seen it on their website. 

[Mango Bob]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When applying for an OA Visa in a Thai embassy/consulate in your home-country, foreign health-insurance was allowed when accompanied with a certificate that it met the thai requirements for health insurance.

However, that foreign health-insurance would only be useful the first year after entering Thailand. 

Because when applying for an extension of stay of your OA at a provincial IO the requirement states that it must be thai health-insurance.

 

So even with a certificate that your foreign health-insurance meets the thai HI requirements and which was approved by your home-country Thai embassy/consulate, when applying for an extension of stay such a certificate is not allowed according to the Police Order.

I am not a conspiracy adept, but this exclusion only benefits the exorbitantly priced policies of approved thai insurance companies.

 

 

I would love to see a list of who is on the Board of Directors of these Thai insurance companies.  I bet we would see some name there we read about daily we see and read on the news.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Mango Bob

[GeorgeCross]

19 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

 

I initially started with an O-A. I successfully did a retirement extension and got a multiple re-entry permit yesterday (7 Nov) at CW. No one so much as mentioned the word 'insurance'. Everyone might want to calm down some...until there are more facts and fewer speculations.

 

 

 

first positive report! did you notice others getting extensions too?

 

[AAArdvark]

6 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Have you seen any company give you your money back it you return a product here in Thailand?

 

To be honest I don't think they do.  I have not seen it on their website. 

Technically, the product has not been delivered in full yet.  Also, I don't yet know how the insurance premiums are paid, all at once or monthly.  If monthly, the question is moot. 

[LivinLOS]

23 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

 

I initially started with an O-A. I successfully did a retirement extension and got a multiple re-entry permit yesterday (7 Nov) at CW. No one so much as mentioned the word 'insurance'. Everyone might want to calm down some...until there are more facts and fewer speculations.

 

 

As that is counter to so many other experiences are you absolutely sure it was an OA initial visa ?? 

And as there are many trolls making it hard to get accurate info could you post images of the visa, extension stamp, etc with any identifiers removed. 

[Momofarang]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

As that is counter to so many other experiences are you absolutely sure it was an OA initial visa ?? 

Do we have any proven report of someone applying for an extension of stay and being refused for lack of insurance?

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, Momofarang said:

Do we have any proven report of someone applying for an extension of stay and being refused for lack of insurance?

Many.. Everywhere through the country.. That is what IOs are (fairly consistently) saying. Its also what the law says. 

 

Part of the problem is we have many posters who dont understand things, even an old mate of mine contacted in a panic, who thought OA equals retirement, when he had an initial O visa. 

[david555]

4 hours ago, Momofarang said:

Indeed, but it would be nice to have to have an "expert" setting up a closed thread giving updates on the current understanding for all situations i.e. entry with O/A prior or post 31/10, o/a retirement extension, o/a marriage extension etc..

 

Actually it could make sense to open a second thread where members could post their experience(s). Only Original posts with some proof pic should allowed, and only interactions between OPs and moderators.

 

Hope I won't get censored for commenting on moderation, with some moderation though.

Even those experts shall can not getting around the Thai I.O. problem , that different io have different understandings about any of their rules , especially the new introduced ones !

 

I wonder of in Thai army on a march , if ordered march right …. some soldiers go left …? I doubt …. so why can immigration not follow rules ALL the same way …….oh yes I forgot something ……(censored ) 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

The expiry date of my current OA Visa is June 26, 2020 and my permission to stay is valid till July 22, 2020.

Can I exit Thailand in course of coming weeks and apply for a Non Imm O based on retirement in a neighbouring country?

Or would the not-expired OA Visa prohibit this?

Thanks for all responses which were unanimous > NOT possible to apply for a new Visa when your current Visa has not expired yet.

The consequence being that when exiting Thailand and wanting to return later you need to postpone that return till 30 days before your OA Visa expiry, otherwise you cannot escape the health-insurance requirement.

So those people that entered Thailand just before Oct 31 on a freshly issued OA Visa are 'stuck' in Thailand for almost 11 months! 

In my own case, my earliest date of return after having left Thailand is May 27, 2020.  After that date I can enter Thailand on Visa exempt, and leave the country at the end of the 30 days to apply for a Non Imm O.

So bye-bye any short tourism-trips to neighboring countries, unless I am willing to submit to the thai insurance scheme.

So I am grudgingly interested to get info on the lowest possible cost for such a scheme for a 62 year-old (as I might be forced to take one for this year only).  Not interested in the coverage, as I ONLY need the insurance to meet the OA application requirements which I cannot dodge before end May.

 

[Momofarang]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

I wonder of in Thai army on a march , if ordered march right …. some soldiers go left …? I doubt …. so why can immigration not follow rules ALL the same way …….oh yes I forgot something ……(censored ) 

That may be a bit too harsh, but I tend to think that if Thai immigration was put in charge of organizing a move to right hand traffic they'd go for trucks and buses first, for the first year.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Momofarang said:

Indeed, but it would be nice to have to have an "expert" setting up a closed thread giving updates on the current understanding for all situations i.e. entry with O/A prior or post 31/10, o/a retirement extension, o/a marriage extension etc..

 

Actually it could make sense to open a second thread where members could post their experience(s). Only Original posts with some proof pic should allowed, and only interactions between OPs and moderators.

 

 

I tried that yesterday, and overnight, the thread was closed with the comment that THIS thread should be the main thread for reporting enforcement experiences....

 

[Hayduke]

23 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

As that is counter to so many other experiences are you absolutely sure it was an OA initial visa ?? 

And as there are many trolls making it hard to get accurate info could you post images of the visa, extension stamp, etc with any identifiers removed. 

 

Are you freaking serious? I know damned well what visa I entered the country with. And I'm not going to play any silly 'show and tell' games with you. You're free to believe me or to not believe me. Up to you.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Hayduke

[john terry1001]

41 minutes ago, Hayduke said:

I initially started with an O-A. I successfully did a retirement extension and got a multiple re-entry permit yesterday (7 Nov) at CW. No one so much as mentioned the word 'insurance'. Everyone might want to calm down some...until there are more facts and fewer speculations.

When did you first get you O-A? Was this your first extension?

[pookondee]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Sorry, I don't follow this?. People entering in a re-entry permit aren't getting any sort of free ride. They just come back to the same situation they were in before going out: an existing extension of stay that was issued before the effective date of 31 October, same as a person who newly entered prior to 31 October. In both cases they are exempt from the snsurance requirement for the duration of their existing permission to stay.

But wouldn't someone travelling in and out, on the 1st year of a multi entry O-A be in the same position?

 

If say, i already had an ME O-A and left in september (assumed no need for re-entry permit) but then return tomorrow, it seems id be asked for insurance?

 

It seems this brings up the question some are debating,..

will they give me a re-entry permit if leaving?..

 although they dont really need it or qualify

(since they have an ME but only want to get back in and avoiding the insurance)..

 

So, those who got a ME Non O-A within the last 12 months are clearly at a disadvantage to someone on an extension of stay, who can get a re-entry permit if leaving and coming back. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

So those people that entered Thailand just before Oct 31 on a freshly issued OA Visa are 'stuck' in Thailand for almost 11 months! 

 

Absent insurance or the willingness to get it, I would say, yes, that's what it looks like right now.

 

However, I'd also caution that we're still only one week into the enforcement of this new policy, and the reports on enforcement have not been entirely consistent. So best to wait and see how things play out...before making final judgments.

 

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, Hayduke said:

 

I initially started with an O-A. I successfully did a retirement extension and got a multiple re-entry permit yesterday (7 Nov) at CW. No one so much as mentioned the word 'insurance'. Everyone might want to calm down some...until there are more facts and fewer speculations.

 

 

Thank you. We need more posts like this to see what is happening.

 

Can I ask if you do have insurance with a Thai company? My insurance agent just told me that they upload my policy to something call the TGIA database. If you already have insurance with a Thai company and it is available online then maybe that could be a reason no one mentioned anything.

The other thing is that they usually pass out a list of requirements for the year extension. Do you remember if insurance was part of the list now. I did my extension on Oct 7 so too early to useful in this discussion.

[saiber]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I may have missed some posts re this... But, AFAIK...

 

The problem isn't with Immigration officers at the airport being asked to, or being unable to, read English language insurance docs.  Under the rules, that was NEVER going to be the way the system worked.

 

Under the rules, a person with a foreign insurance policy needing to have it certified for O-A purposes needed to download the Thai "Foreign Insurance Certificate" form and have it signed and certified by their foreign insurer... (which apparently is often virtually impossible to do). 

 

Either to show at the Thai Embassies/Consulates where they also want to see copies of the applicant's foreign insurance policy documents, or presumably also at the airport Immigration checkpoints.

 

But thus far, there have been few if any reports here of anyone actually being able to obtain a signed/certified Thai "Foreign Insurance Certificate" from their out-of-Thailand insurer...at least...not yet.

 

Merely walking up to Thai Immigration at the airports with your foreign insurance policy in hand and trying to convince them to look at that and accept it -- even if it meets the coverage requirements -- is pretty much likely to be a non-starter.

 

 

I posted the certificate to my German insurer ( Hanse Merkur) and they stamped and signed the expat foreign insurance certificate and sent it back to me.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

55 minutes ago, Martyp said:

Can I ask if you do have insurance with a Thai company? My insurance agent just told me that they upload my policy to something call the TGIA database. If you already have insurance with a Thai company and it is available online then maybe that could be a reason no one mentioned anything.

 

As I understand it, for current O-A visa holders with existing Thai insurance policies with one of the eligible insurers whose policy meet the O-A requirements...

 

the policy holder needs to check with/notify their Thai insurer and/or their agent that they need to be reported into the system for O-A compliance. The insurer then will do that, and also supposedly send you some kind of compliance certificate for you to keep. (The insurer won't automatically report everyone into the O-A system, because they don't necessarily know what kind of visa you're in the country on).

 

If it turns out that Immigration is also enforcing the insurance requirement for border entries now based on pre-Oct. 31 O-A visas, then obviously such a person also would want to make the same request of their insurer now, have the reporting done, and hopefully obtain the O-A insurance certificate before making any future re-entry into Thailand.

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[FPizzle]

I'm totally confused. I renew again in June, 2020 (13th year). I have my monthly deposit in line and now I see this. Do I need health insurance or not?  Just for fun I checked all of the companies listed and none, that I can see, will offer insurance to a person over 70 unless it is a renewal. These are the guidelines I found for the O-A (Retirement) renewal and there doesn't seem to be anything indicating a way to get around it.  It also states that if you have insurance from overseas you will have to show proof of Thai issued insurance at renewal. As usual none of this makes any sense!

Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)

This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

[Max69xl]

22 minutes ago, saiber said:

I posted the certificate to my German insurer ( Hanse Merkur) and they stamped and signed the expat foreign insurance certificate and sent it back to me.

I would like to know the reason why some/many foreign insurance companies refuses to sign the certificate. If I buy a quite expensive foreign insurance with a specific policy, what are they afraid of? The certificate doesn't change anything.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

I am not a conspiracy adept, but this exclusion only benefits the exorbitantly priced policies of approved thai insurance companies.

Correct, the whole thing's a scam that's been cooked up between whoever's in charge of immigration policy in the government and the insurance industy.

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, Hayduke said:

I initially started with an O-A. I successfully did a retirement extension and got a multiple re-entry permit yesterday (7 Nov) at CW. No one so much as mentioned the word 'insurance'. Everyone might want to calm down some...until there are more facts and fewer speculations.

Hi Hayduke,

Yours is the very first report on TVF of an OA Visa holder whose application for extension based on retirement was approved!

Obviously everybody on this Forum is very interested in getting more details.

They did not ask you about insurance, but the question is did you have any?

Thanks!

Note > A approval report from Chiang-Mai from a couple of days ago that everybody got excited about, turned out to be an O application, so yours seems to be the very first real approval of an OA extension without health-insurance.

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

I'm totally confused. I renew again in June, 2020 (13th year). I have my monthly deposit in line and now I see this. Do I need health insurance or not?  Just for fun I checked all of the companies listed and none, that I can see, will offer insurance to a person over 70 unless it is a renewal. These are the guidelines I found for the O-A (Retirement) renewal and there doesn't seem to be anything indicating a way to get around it.  It also states that if you have insurance from overseas you will have to show proof of Thai issued insurance at renewal. As usual none of this makes any sense!

Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)

This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

You do have an O-A Visa,not an O with annual extensions? 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

I'm totally confused. I renew again in June, 2020 (13th year).

 

It sounds like you're on a retirement extension of stay?

 

If so, you need to look back in your passport and see what was your last/most recent actual VISA prior to your many extensions of stay. If your last/most recent visa was an O-A, then you could well be covered by the insurance requirement.

 

If your last/most recent visa was an O visa or a B visa or some other type other than O-A, then you are NOT covered by the insurance requirement -- at least as things stand right now.

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, pookondee said:

But wouldn't someone travelling in and out, on the 1st year of a multi entry O-A be in the same position?

 

If say, i already had an ME O-A and left in september (assumed no need for re-entry permit) but then return tomorrow, it seems id be asked for insurance?

 

It seems this brings up the question some are debating,..

will they give me a re-entry permit if leaving?..

 although they dont really need it or qualify

(since they have an ME but only want to get back in and avoiding the insurance)..

 

So, those who got a ME Non O-A within the last 12 months are clearly at a disadvantage to someone on an extension of stay, who can get a re-entry permit if leaving and coming back. 

 

A person travelling in and out on a still valid OA is not in the same position because on entry they would get a new permission of stay with later dates than what they had when they left. A new permission to stay is generated when you enter on a visa (or visa exempt), but not when you enter in a RE permit. That is the difference. And why a few members have proposed trying to enter on a RE permit despite still having a valid OA visa. Remains to be seen how they will fare with that.

 

And yes, as it currently stands, unless practices by entry officers changes, it would be inadvisable for anyone with a still valid OA to leave and return within the visa validity period. Assuming they do not have and do not want to take out one of the "approved" policies.

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Correct, the whole thing's a scam that's been cooked up between whoever's in charge of immigration policy in the government and the insurance industy.

Fyi,the Health Department came up with the idea of a mandatory health insurance,not Immigration. But Immigration has to enforce it.

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, FPizzle said:

I'm totally confused. I renew again in June, 2020 (13th year). I have my monthly deposit in line and now I see this. Do I need health insurance or not?  Just for fun I checked all of the companies listed and none, that I can see, will offer insurance to a person over 70 unless it is a renewal. These are the guidelines I found for the O-A (Retirement) renewal and there doesn't seem to be anything indicating a way to get around it.  It also states that if you have insurance from overseas you will have to show proof of Thai issued insurance at renewal. As usual none of this makes any sense!

Applicant must be aged 50 years old and over (on the day of visa submission application)

This visa is allowed to stay in Thailand for 1 year each time.

Health insurance policy must have coverage not less than 400,000 Thai Baht per policy year for Inpatient, and not less than 40,000 Thai Baht per policy year for outpatient.

In the case where the accompanying spouse is not eligible to apply for the O-A visa, he or she will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. A marriage certificate must be provided as evidence.

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. Any inquiries on completing Insurance application can be addressed at each insurance company.

 

2 companies will newly insure you between ages 71 - 75. See the chart attached to this pinned thread.

 

No companies on the approved list  insure after age 75 though.

Of these two, Pacific Cross offers deductible options for their lower end plans which if large enough can reduce premiums by as much as 50%. . Whether you want to take a large deductible is up to you and your circumstances. 

 

If your original visa was O rather than OA this requirement does not affect you. Check the first few pages of your passport, when last issued and immigration transferred the stamps they will have made an entry there indicating your original visa data.  If it says "Non-O" rather than "non O-A" you are in the clear, at least for now.

 

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Fyi,the Health Department came up with the idea of a mandatory health insurance,not Immigration. But Immigration has to enforce it.

 

MoPH made the request for a system but the details appear to have been put together by the OIC and local companies and yes, Immigration (the last insofar as things like effective date go).

 

I get the sense that neither MoPH nor Immigration know what the details of the approved insurance options are, e.g. that there is no option for people over 75 and that all policuies exclude pre-exisitng conditions  etc.

 

And MoPH is on for a rude awakening when people with "approved" policies end up still unable  to pay bills, as will happen.

[phetpeter]

So, why can't they have an insurance counter for people to purchase insurance on arrival?? (perhaps they are thinking of it, but, too many immg officers families are bidding to run it?)