O/A visa and insurance experience today

[saiber]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

Right now the conventional wisdom (if you have an expired/cancelled O-A) is to go to a neighboring country and apply for a Non O, based upon retirement, following whatever instructions / requirements that they require

 

Since most overseas Embassies and Consulates, as reported above, will no longer issue an O based upon retirement, does anyone really think that this local "loophole " will remain ?

 

Immigration in Thailand is like the kids game Whack a Mole, once you follow their requirements, another new one will pop up

 

I am one of the lucky ones, I don't have to come to Thailand, and there is less reason to be here since I followed the number one rule of living here: Don't invest more than you can afford to loose   

100% agree.

 

[Max69xl]

10 hours ago, Martyp said:

I applied for my extension at CW 42 days early on Oct. 7. The Oct 31 date had not been announced yet. I was not asked about insurance.

The October 31 date was announced way before October 7, and why would they ask for insurance October 7? 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Langsuan Man said:

Right now the conventional wisdom (if you have an expired/cancelled O-A) is to go to a neighboring country and apply for a Non O, based upon retirement, following whatever instructions / requirements that they require

 

Since most overseas Embassies and Consulates, as reported above, will no longer issue an O based upon retirement, does anyone really think that this local "loophole " will remain ?

 

Immigration in Thailand is like the kids game Whack a Mole, once you follow their requirements, another new one will pop up

 

I am one of the lucky ones, I don't have to come to Thailand, and there is less reason to be here since I followed the number one rule of living here: Don't invest more than you can afford to loose   

"Since most overseas Embassies and Consulates, as reported above, will no longer issue an O based upon retirement"

Which embassies/consulates overseas don't issue 90 days Non-Immigrant O? 

Just because you can't get in in the US, doesn't mean you can't get in Europe. 

You seem a bit paranoid about about Thailand and Immigration rules. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Max69xl

[Pib]

12 hours ago, Max69xl said:

3 days? Haven't you heard about Fly'n'ride to Savannaket and back? You're back in BKK the same day. And how did you come up with the number 12k? 

How can you do it in "one" day when Savannakhet requires you to apply today and pick up the visa the following working day?  Ditto for next working day at Vientiane. 

 

 

 

[Martyp]

16 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The October 31 date was announced way before October 7, and why would they ask for insurance October 7? 

I mentioned that my extension ran until November 2020. Someone assumed I applied this month. A plausible assumption except that I applied much earlier in October. So, of course, I wasn't asked for insurance.

[Peter Denis]

13 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I do not doubt that Bell Smith got this information from Petchburi IO.

So once again an Immigration official states that OA Visa holders will need health insurance when applying for an extension of stay.  But I can also add that till now I have only seen 1 first-hand report of an extension being refused because of no health insurance (at Nonthaburi > and the applicant had insurance but it was not thai, and hence refused).

And the IO's last advice is of course INCORRECT >

There are only 3 possibilities:

- When re-entering Thailand with a valid re-entry permit there will NEVER be an issue.  This because the re-entry permit is not an application for a new permission to stay (which can be approved/refused) but simply keeps your already granted permission to stay alive.

- When the original OA Visa has expired and trying to re-enter without a re-entry permit, this will not prompt health-insurance as both the OA Visa and the permission of stay based upon it will not be valid anymore.  Applicant can only enter Visa Exempt in that case.

- The last possibility is that an OA Visa holder wants to re-enter Thailand when his OA Visa validity has not expired yet.  Several cases have been reported of OA holders in that situation without health-insurance that have been stamped in for the full 1 year they are entitled to .

>>> So even though it's very welcome to post reports of actual experience (as detailed as possible), they need to be taken with a grain of salt, as both the poster and the immigration official can be incorrect or incomplete.

 

[Thaidream]

It appears that we still do not have a complete explanation on how the Police Order and Memoranda are being interpreted -

A,   At first airport entries with O-A were being stamped in for 30days with out insurance- then corrected back to 12 months.  Recent reports  show IO's at SUV now again asking for  insurance.  What was the result of the meeting on 7 Nov 19 - no feedback .

 

B.    Reports of people going to various Immigration offices and insisting that anyone on an O-A, no matter what the issue date are being told they need insurance when renewing.

 

C.   There have been no firm reports of anyone going to renew their O-A extension  after 31 Oct 2019 and being denied and 1 report from CW of an applicant being approved.  Correction- 1 denial at nontha buri

 

D. According to information received from the US Embassy in emails to forum members who sent an inquiry (including me)- the Embassy knows of the situation and has sent diplomatic notes; made enquiries to the Health ministry and in discussions with other Embassies on this issue.   There has been one report of a forum member indiciating the Italian Embassy and EU are also sending  enquiries to the Thai Government.

 

As of yet, the Thai Government has not yet responded but at least they know they have a diplomatic problem.

 

In summary- confusion  reins and we need actual reports of people going to immigration with an O-A original visa wanting to extend their stay and the result.  Also, experiences entering with an O-A, dates of Visa, entry date and result.

 

It appears the only sure bet is that those on re-entry permits are not having any problem re-entering.

 

Here's hoping the Thai authorities- solve the issue easily by simply grandfathering everyone on an O-A issued prior to 31 Oct 2019- if they do that- the  chaos ends.  

Edited November 17, 2019 by Thaidream

[Peter Denis]

13 hours ago, Forresttrump said:

Hi all, new member but not new to your forum.  I find your members experiences a great help when preparing for my frequent visits to Thailand.  I have the O-A visa issued December 2018 and returned here on Thursday.  Now the one thing I’ve learnt is never to question an IO’s knowledge of his job and have more documentation than you need!  Ok that’s two things.  First question from the IO you have your insurance certificate please, yes here it is, quick scan and stamp for one year extension and sent on my way.  For your information I only had multi-trip travel insurance for one year.  It worked for me your experience maybe different.

 

Thanks for the report.

So you have a pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa and re-entered Thailand last Thursday Nov 14.

But your were STILL queried for health-insurance, even after the Nov7 IO meeting that clarified that health-insurance is NOT required for pre Oct 31 issued OA Visas.

This does not instill confidence that all border IOs have understood or gotten that message.

Can you please indicate WHERE you entered? 

And the fact that when queried for the insurance certificate, and you showed the IO your travel insurance and where then simply stamped in for the full year, is an utter display of incompetence from the Immigration official.  It would be laughable, if the potential consequences of being denied entry on your valid OA Visa were not so serious.

What an incredible mess!

 

[nong38]

I have not seen any reports on what the Thai Insurance required is costing and it would be useful for that information to be shared. In the UK all migrants are treated equally EU and non EU and the current annual cost is 400 GBP this will rise soon to 625 GBP so roughly 16,000bts rising to 25,000bts. How would you think the UK NHS compares to the Thai version or maybe you would prefer to go private?  

[Max69xl]

5 minutes ago, nong38 said:

I have not seen any reports on what the Thai Insurance required is costing and it would be useful for that information to be shared. In the UK all migrants are treated equally EU and non EU and the current annual cost is 400 GBP this will rise soon to 625 GBP so roughly 16,000bts rising to 25,000bts. How would you think the UK NHS compares to the Thai version or maybe you would prefer to go private?  

There's been several posts here about costs for thai insurances. Why compare NHS to the thai system? It cost a Thai 30 baht to visit their government hospital in their district. A bit cheaper than the NHS,don't you think? 

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Please direct me to ONE, where someone on extension of stay based on retirement even with long expired original O-A visa is being required to show insurance. One will do. BTW being asked where? Airport or border crossing? Where

Till now only 1 first-hand report of an OA extension of stay being approved without health insurance (at CW).

And only 1 first-hand report of an OA extension being denied for not having thai health-insurance (Nonthaburi).

So even on day 18 after implementation, situation not clear!

>> Attached the denial report.

 

[Sheryl]

13 hours ago, Forresttrump said:

Hi all, new member but not new to your forum.  I find your members experiences a great help when preparing for my frequent visits to Thailand.  I have the O-A visa issued December 2018 and returned here on Thursday.  Now the one thing I’ve learnt is never to question an IO’s knowledge of his job and have more documentation than you need!  Ok that’s two things.  First question from the IO you have your insurance certificate please, yes here it is, quick scan and stamp for one year extension and sent on my way.  For your information I only had multi-trip travel insurance for one year.  It worked for me your experience maybe different.

 

Did uou have the official Immigration approved certificate signed by the insurer, or just certificate issued by he insurance company?

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, nong38 said:

I have not seen any reports on what the Thai Insurance required is costing and it would be useful for that information to be shared. In the UK all migrants are treated equally EU and non EU and the current annual cost is 400 GBP this will rise soon to 625 GBP so roughly 16,000bts rising to 25,000bts. How would you think the UK NHS compares to the Thai version or maybe you would prefer to go private?

The UK NHS has been in existence since the 1930s and is the best example of a system that meets the needs of UK citizens and migrants.  The costs are fair baed upon incomes  in the UK.

 

The Thai system is completely different- Thai working citizens pay 457 Thai Baht per month into the system to be covered for healthcare in Thai Government Hospitals. Those not working or deemed unable to pay are placed in the 30 Baht scheme and given free treatment.

 

Foreigners working for companies in Thailand can also go into the Social Security system.  Foreigners  in Thailand, even on long stay retirment or marriage Visas/extensions cannot  buy into the Thai system at any price. 

 

However, any foreigner can go to a  Thai Government hospital and pay the  charges for treatment- however, foreigners are charged  at least double the Thai charge and sometimes more.

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

26 minutes ago, nong38 said:

I have not seen any reports on what the Thai Insurance required is costing and it would be useful for that information to be shared. In the UK all migrants are treated equally EU and non EU and the current annual cost is 400 GBP this will rise soon to 625 GBP so roughly 16,000bts rising to 25,000bts. How would you think the UK NHS compares to the Thai version or maybe you would prefer to go private?  

Thete is no Thai version of NHS available to foreigners.

Insurance costs can be found in a pinned thread in the health forum

[vivananahuahin]

49 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I do not doubt that Bell Smith got this information from Petchburi IO.

So once again an Immigration official states that OA Visa holders will need health insurance when applying for an extension of stay.  But I can also add that till now I have only seen 1 first-hand report of an extension being refused because of no health insurance (at Nonthaburi > and the applicant had insurance but it was not thai, and hence refused).

And the IO's last advice is of course INCORRECT >

There are only 3 possibilities:

- When re-entering Thailand with a valid re-entry permit there will NEVER be an issue.  This because the re-entry permit is not an application for a new permission to stay (which can be approved/refused) but simply keeps your already granted permission to stay alive.

- When the original OA Visa has expired and trying to re-enter without a re-entry permit, this will not prompt health-insurance as both the OA Visa and the permission of stay based upon it will not be valid anymore.  Applicant can only enter Visa Exempt in that case.

- The last possibility is that an OA Visa holder wants to re-enter Thailand when his OA Visa validity has not expired yet.  Several cases have been reported of OA holders in that situation without health-insurance that have been stamped in for the full 1 year they are entitled to .

>>> So even though it's very welcome to post reports of actual experience (as detailed as possible), they need to be taken with a grain of salt, as both the poster and the immigration official can be incorrect or incomplete.

 

i have also Phetchaburi(Tha Yang) immigration office,and i have also a expired OA visa and i am under extension since 2014,i have a very good insurance,2 surgeries in 2016 and all bills pay by my insurance,i read now that the IO advise leaving and re entering Thailand without a health insurance,if i go out without re entry permit my extension en di facto my OA visa will be killed,and i go to Vientiane to make a visa NON O based on marriage and come back in Thailand,then can the IO after 60 days refuse to extend my visa to 1 year?Worry about this answer from IO'S.I go friday 22 to make my 90 days report 

[vivananahuahin]

sorry i make a mistake IO advice against leaving an re entering,i am very concern ....

 

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The UK NHS has been in existence since the 1930s and is the best example of a system that meets the needs of UK citizens and migrants.  The costs are fair baed upon incomes  in the UK.

 

The Thai system is completely different- Thai working citizens pay 457 Thai Baht per month into the system to be covered for healthcare in Thai Government Hospitals. Those not working or deemed unable to pay are placed in the 30 Baht scheme and given free treatment.

 

Foreigners working for companies in Thailand can also go into the Social Security system.  Foreigners  in Thailand, even on long stay retirment or marriage Visas/extensions cannot  buy into the Thai system at any price. 

 

However, any foreigner can go to a  Thai Government hospital and pay the  charges for treatment- however, foreigners are charged  at least double the Thai charge and sometimes more.

 

 

 

 

Not all Thai hospitals charge foreigners more. In fact most do not. You will encounter dual pricing only in hospitals which treat large enough numbers of foreigners to have made it worth their while to develop a separate pricing scheme.

 

I just escorted a foreigner to a government hospital in Bangkok last week. Same price as for Thais for everything.

 

Likewise the government hospital -- a regional level facility - n my province has only one price for all.

 

Govt hospitals in and near Pattaya have had dual pricing for years. I believe Phuket also. Siriraj in Bangkok recently started. But most of the countries govt hospitals not and they are unlikely to start unless they begin to have a lot of foreign patients.

 

The monthly cost for SS is not a flat 457 baht, it depends on income.

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

sorry i make a mistake IO advice against leaving an re entering,i am very concern ....

 

I think what they meant was leaving and re-entering with a still valid OA visa one might be asked for proof of insurance.

 

No problem at all leaving and re-entering on a re entry permit and should not be a problem leaving and returning on a new non O visa if you can get one. That would not be a "re entry" it would be an altogether new entry.

[saengd]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Not all Thai hospitals charge foreigners more. In fact most do not. You will encounter dual pricing only in hospitals which treat large enough numbers of foreigners to have made it worth their while to develop a separate pricing scheme.

 

I just escorted a foreigner to a government hospital in Bangkok last week. Same price as for Thais for everything.

 

Likewise the government hospital -- a regional level facility - n my province has only one price for all.

 

Govt hospitals in and near Pattaya have had dual pricing for years. I believe Phuket also. Siriraj in Bangkok recently started. But most of the countries govt hospitals not and they are unlikely to start unless they begin to have a lot of foreign patients.

 

The monthly cost for SS is not a flat 457 baht, it depends on income.

I have read in the past three weeks where government hospitals in Thailand have been issued with three pricing structures, one for Thai's, one for ASEAN members and one for other foreigners, surely you must have seen that also? 

 

EDIT TO ADD: Here's one such article to confirm: https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/foreigners-crying-foul-over-the-new-dual-pricing-policy-at-thai-public-hospitals

 

and

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/dual-pricing-for-foreigners-now-legal-at-thai-public-hospitals-72766.php

 

"Highlighting the disparity in rates charged, a simple antibody screening costs Thais and Asean nationals B130. Most expats will pay B190 while retirees and tourists pay double – B260, the report explained".

Edited November 17, 2019 by saengd

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, saengd said:

I have read in the past three weeks where government hospitals in Thailand have been issued with three pricing structures, one for Thai's, one for ASEAN members and one for other foreigners, surely you must have seen that also? 

 

EDIT TO ADD: Here's one such article to confirm: https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/expats/foreigners-crying-foul-over-the-new-dual-pricing-policy-at-thai-public-hospitals

 

and

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/dual-pricing-for-foreigners-now-legal-at-thai-public-hospitals-72766.php

As I have repeatedly explained in those threads, this government pricing booklet has rates that are lower than current actual rates. No hospital is going to follow this, they would have to lower their prices to do so and that is not going to happen.

 

Hospitals have long been ignoring MoPH guidelines on prices and setting their own. 

 

 

[garygooner]

Thanks for your prompt reply. 

[vivananahuahin]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think what they meant was leaving and re-entering with a still valid OA visa one might be asked for proof of insurance.

 

No problem at all leaving and re-entering on a re entry permit and should not be a problem leaving and returning on a new non O visa if you can get one. That would not be a "re entry" it would be an altogether new entry.

Thank you for your answer.

 

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

i have also Phetchaburi(Tha Yang) immigration office,and i have also a expired OA visa and i am under extension since 2014,i have a very good insurance,2 surgeries in 2016 and all bills pay by my insurance,i read now that the IO advise leaving and re entering Thailand without a health insurance,if i go out without re entry permit my extension en di facto my OA visa will be killed,and i go to Vientiane to make a visa NON O based on marriage and come back in Thailand,then can the IO after 60 days refuse to extend my visa to 1 year?Worry about this answer from IO'S.I go friday 22 to make my 90 days report 

Hi, in your follow-up post you indicated that you misread and that the IO was indeed advising against leaving and re-entering the country without health-insurance.  So that one is cleared up.  Although the advise does not make any sense at all (as explained in my response).

So your remaining question here is whether being granted a Non Imm O based on marriage in Vientiane, if on application for extension of that granted Imm O you could be refused by your local Phetchaburi IO.  

And the answer is simple: providing you meet the requirements for extension of stay of that Non Imm O based on marriage, there is absolutely nothing to worry about.

And the fact that your Non Imm O would be based on marriage (on not on retirement), is an additional guarantee that it will be honored now and in the future.

 

When you go Friday 22 for your 90-days report you can query your IO about it too.

But it should be no problem, and there is no need to rush and switch to a Non Imm O now, as you will still have time till your present permission to stay is due for extension. 

By then, the situation will most probably have been 99% clarified (100% clarity in Thailand does not exist) and you can consider your options.

 

[GeorgeCross]

53 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

There's been several posts here about costs for thai insurances. Why compare NHS to the thai system? It cost a Thai 30 baht to visit their government hospital in their district. A bit cheaper than the NHS,don't you think? 

 

NHS is free for UK citizens so no, not cheaper at all.

 

 

[vivananahuahin]

49 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi, in your follow-up post you indicated that you misread and that the IO was indeed advising against leaving and re-entering the country without health-insurance.  So that one is cleared up.  Although the advise does not make any sense at all (as explained in my response).

So your remaining question here is whether being granted a Non Imm O based on marriage in Vientiane, if on application for extension of that granted Imm O you could be refused by your local Phetchaburi IO.  

And the answer is simple: providing you meet the requirements for extension of stay of that Non Imm O based on marriage, there is absolutely nothing to worry about.

And the fact that your Non Imm O would be based on marriage (on not on retirement), is an additional guarantee that it will be honored now and in the future.

 

When you go Friday 22 for your 90-days report you can query your IO about it too.

But it should be no problem, and there is no need to rush and switch to a Non Imm O now, as you will still have time till your present permission to stay is due for extension. 

By then, the situation will most probably have been 99% clarified (100% clarity in Thailand does not exist) and you can consider your options.

 

ok thank you for your answer,i will friday 22 november report the correct answer,i will certainly not switch now,i have time until march 24,i will see if they are some movments concerning these rules,i know they are some pressures to the Foreign office ministery from embassies,then i presume that they will adjust it.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

encounter dual pricing only in hospitals which treat large enough numbers of foreigners to have made it worth their while to develop a separate pricing scheme.

 

I just escorted a foreigner to a government hospital in Bangkok last week. Same price as for Thais for everything.

 

Likewise the government hospital -- a regional level facility - n my province has only one price for all.

 

Govt hospitals in and near Pattaya have had dual pricing for years. I believe Phuket also. Siriraj in Bangkok recently started. But most of the countries govt hospitals not and they are unlikely to start unless they begin to have a lot of foreign patients.

 

The monthly cost for SS is not a flat 457 baht, it depends on income

Thanks for clarifying this.  

[el jefe]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

16 hours ago, Max69xl said:

3 days? Haven't you heard about Fly'n'ride to Savannaket and back? You're back in BKK the same day. And how did you come up with the number 12k? 

 

How can you do it in "one" day when Savannakhet requires you to apply today and pick up the visa the following working day?  Ditto for next working day at Vientiane. 

 

 

Thanks, Pib!

So the correct info is that getting a visa at savanakhet would be a 4 day 3 night trip if starting in Chiang Mai. I was there 15 years ago. No need to go back.
Max69xl thinks his solution is always the best one. There is a solution for everyone. For many, like his friend "who likes to get out and travel", Savanakhet might work. For others (those 75 and up), it may be returning to their home country. For me, a METV would do the trick. I realize that few people are in the same position as me, but I leave and re-enter about 5 times a year. The tourist visas give me 60 day stays (extendable to 90). I got my O-A just to have a little more flexibility in my travels. Obviously that was a mistake. When my permission to stay is up in Sept 2021, I'll be back to one METV and one SETV every year. Of course, the rules are going to change several times between now and then.

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, saiber said:

I give up, seems you don't understand. 

The poster was under the belief that an OA allows long stay but that an o requires constant visa runs. That is not the case.  

 

Once extended they both allow long stay. 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, el jefe said:

Thanks, Pib!

So the correct info is that getting a visa at savanakhet would be a 4 day 3 night trip if starting in Chiang Mai. I was there 15 years ago. No need to go back.
Max69xl thinks his solution is always the best one. There is a solution for everyone. For many, like his friend "who likes to get out and travel", Savanakhet might work. For others (those 75 and up), it may be returning to their home country. For me, a METV would do the trick. I realize that few people are in the same position as me, but I leave and re-enter about 5 times a year. The tourist visas give me 60 day stays (extendable to 90). I got my O-A just to have a little more flexibility in my travels. Obviously that was a mistake. When my permission to stay is up in Sept 2021, I'll be back to one METV and one SETV every year. Of course, the rules are going to change several times between now and then.

Yea, whether you get a Non O say at Savannakhet/Vientiane or convert an Exempt to a Non-O at your local immigration office you are going to pay Bt2,000.  Then just before it expires you are going to pay Bt1,900 for a extension of stay.  So the core fees are same-same.  Then a person needs to price-in the associated costs of transportation (air/ground), hotel, fees to get across the border, time involved, etc....etc.  Then pick which method a person wants to use.   If you don't want to spend 2 days and a night in Laos to get a Non-O then maybe just doing a quick border run to kill off a current extension of stay/get an Exempt entry and then converting the Exempt to a Non-O is the way to go.   Cost-wise there really isn't really any major difference...it's more of just a personal choice as to which method will be easier for a person...and it will vary for each person.  

Edited November 17, 2019 by Pib

[el jefe]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The poster was under the belief that an OA allows long stay but that an o requires constant visa runs. That is not the case.  

 

Once extended they both allow long stay. 

No.

"Saiber" is getting an annual Non-Imm-O in his home country. Valid for 12 months but if used right it's good for 15. That visa allows a maximum stay of 90 days. No need to extend it 30 days before it expires. Just get a new one. No need for money in a Thai bank. No need to ever visit an Immigration office. For those who are traveling anyway, there is much less paperwork involved and is the easiest to get and deal with.

Until Thai Immigration changes the rules. Again.