POLL: Retired people -- at what age did you retire?

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

I started planning for retirement at age 26, when I heard a college professor on public radio point out that, while most Americans planned on retiring one day, no more than 3% succeeded in providing a retirement income for themselves beyond Social Security, my own father not being among them.  That was my come-to-Jesus moment.

 

I retired at 61, having only begun a professional career at age 35.  Married late, never divorced, no kids, so getting retirement together in about 25 years was doable at my income level.  I planned extensively and at retirement had about 20 years of expected living expenses in the portfolio.  Have just now hit 70 and started to take Social Security with the maximum delayed retirement benefits.  At this point I am a little bit better off than the forecast of 10 years ago, so I believe that my plan has worked at least so far.  And that's a source of some considerable satisfaction.

 

I enjoyed my career for most of it, but not for the last few years when the workload increased arbitrarily. I don't regret my choices and would on the whole do it again.  Others among my acquaintances failed to plan and have now to cope with financial difficulties.  Those who are now able to look forward to a retirement without financial worry fall into these categories: public employees with defined benefit pensions, those who married well, a small number of exceptionally talented hard-workers, and those who had some life-changing windfall.  

That statistic is not correct about the 3 percent. It is much higher a percentage that have significant assets to draw down upon and/or income streams like rental properties to supplement social security (for Americans.) But the theme is correct … a shockingly high percentage of people do only have government pension income. 

[Jingthing]

I planned to retire at about age 55 which may sound early but my work field is a young man's game and also it was SUPER STRESSFUL and I hated it with a passion. Advice to younger people -- pick a work field that you love. However, I hit a bad recession and couldn't find new work for over a year and then what I could find paid 20 percent of my old salary level (companies were outsourcing the same work to India), while I still had an expensive mortgage draining my assets. So at age 48 I decided I would be better off selling out (at a great profit) and moving to anyplace low cost where I could get a visa. Thailand was it as there are very few options without a pension. (Have one now.)

 

As far as regrets, well, not really, but I have had to worry about controlling spending more than I would have wanted and that is obviously going to continue for the rest of life. The reason I don't regret this is that I do realize things could get tragically brutal at a later age because of an underfunded retirement but I see that now as the risk I freely took based on circumstances. I also realize I may regret that decision later. Oh well. Things end badly eventually for all us, broke or not, eh? 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Jingthing

[cmarshall]

Just now, Jingthing said:

That statistic is not correct about the 3 percent. It is much higher a percentage that have significant assets to draw down upon and/or income streams like rental properties to supplement social security (for Americans.) But the theme is correct … a shockingly high percentage of people do only have government pension income. 

I didn't say it was correct, then or now, but the statistic was about an income stream, not assets.  I doubt if the percentage of Americans who own income-producing real estate is more than 3%, but I don't know.

 

Social Security, designed to replace no more than about 40% of pre-retirement income, is an old age anti-poverty insurance program, not a pension.  Although both are annuities, pensions are typically designed to replace 70% or more of pre-retirement income.  

 

During my 25 years of working in mostly mid-sized, but one large company, I never personally observed anyone retire.  

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

I didn't say it was correct, then or now, but the statistic was about an income stream, not assets.  I doubt if the percentage of Americans who own income-producing real estate is more than 3%, but I don't know.

 

Social Security, designed to replace no more than about 40% of pre-retirement income, is an old age anti-poverty insurance program, not a pension.  Although both are annuities, pensions are typically designed to replace 70% or more of pre-retirement income.  

 

During my 25 years of working in mostly mid-sized, but one large company, I never personally observed anyone retire.  

 

That's kind of specific. If a person has a million in savings, they've got a very good income stream based on the four percent withdrawal method. 

[Number 6]

15 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

If I may ask, would your Thai wife be willing and able to relocate to the US late in life?  Without having paid into Medicare during her working years, would she be able to enroll in Medicare?  Would you?  What about Social Security?

 

It has seemed to me that Americans who expatted to low-income Thailand during their working years would have a particularly tough time retiring up the cost-of-living gradient to the US.

I have the income stream to remain even at 62 it should be the 65k govt requires but I've well over 800k banked. Could be higher.

 

We travel to US often. She's been at least half dozen times. Yes to your answer but we are doing better here insofar as salaries. She would never be able to bank 10k thb a month in US. Same with me, I'd never get a job at 60 I can bank what I do. Then all the trips...

 

BUT as you pointed out the concern over health care and insurance. I can claim Medicare but I'll have to buy her insurance till 65. It's a real concern. Thing is even if I can buy insurance I really don't trust the companies to pay on it and if they did per chance not dump you.

 

I've sized up costs and it's about the same for basics. US wins hands down for quality of life and home structure. We would horribly miss the islands here though. Thailand still is imo about 25% cheaper when everything is considered imo.

 

Wife is very willing to go to US but she's more down on it in past years as I've explained how expensive it all is. She's now been enough times to see that as well.

 

Finally, her parents mid 70s and even if we did go to USA she's 15 years younger and no family there so she's back here when I'm dead and gone anyway.

 

It kills me not to be able to own property, a home and the horrible builds of condos which are also 50% overpriced.

 

She was born in BKK but owns home and property in Ubon. We both love the sea. I never see us living there and it's well outside the city northward so no chance of even working at Benchama Maharat. Prolly drink myself to death out of boredom if we lived there lol

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Number 6

[cmarshall]

36 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

I have the income stream to remain even at 62 it should be the 65k govt requires but I've well over 800k banked. Could be higher.

 

We travel to US often. She's been at least half dozen times. Yes to your answer but we are doing better here insofar as salaries. She would never be able to bank 10k a month in US. Same with me, I'd never get a job at 60 I can bank what I do. Then all the trips...

 

BUT as you pointed out the concern over health care and insurance. I can claim Medicare but I'll have to buy her insurance till 65. It's a real concern. Thing is even if I can buy insurance I really don't trust the companies to pay on it and if they did per chance not dump you.

 

I've sized up costs and it's about the same for basics. US wins hands down for quality of life and home structure. We would horribly miss the islands here though. Thailand still is imo about 25% cheaper when everything is considered imo.

 

Wife is very willing to go to US but she's more down on it in past years as I've explained how expensive it all is. She's now been enough times to see that as well.

 

Finally, her parents mid 70s and even if we did go to USA she's 15 years younger and no family there so she's back here when I'm dead and gone anyway.

 

It kills me not to be able to own property, a home and the horrible builds of condos which are also 50% overpriced.

 

I wasn't inquiring about meeting the income requirements for your visa, but funding your cost of living when your salary income stops at retirement.  Will you qualify for US Social Security benefits?

 

Not to be impolite, but the monthly saving you specify is presumably 10k thai baht, not USD, correct?  Some US financial planners describe an adequate level of assets to fund retirement as being the range of 20 to 30 times expected annual expenses, assuming SS benefits are available.  What is your own thinking about how much you will need in savings/investment whether for the US or Thailand?

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by cmarshall

[ivor bigun]

although i actually retired at 55 i have taken a few "holidays" of a few yrs where i just bought and sold stuff ,made me quite enough to live on , as well as for the ex wives to get some ,lol but after getting married to my now wife ,i decided that i had had enough of full time work and just did a bit of business from Thailand ,then we lived in the UK until we came back here full time 12 yrs ago ,the wife worked freelance for a few yrs ,but now just a bit now and again ,me i do as little as possible .????

ps its been one hell of a great life ,just wish i could do it all again .

Edited December 7, 2019 by ivor bigun

[cmarshall]

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's kind of specific. If a person has a million in savings, they've got a very good income stream based on the four percent withdrawal method. 

JT, is there some reason you prefer to generalize from the 90th percentile, rather than, say, number closer to the median?  

 

Anyway, the statistic cited was from the 70's, so not worth arguing about.

 

Also, I am curious enough about your US occupation to take a stab in the dark.  Mortgage broker?

 

https://cdn.dqydj.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/net_worth_retirees_2016.png

Edited December 7, 2019 by cmarshall

[Lacessit]

I retired at age 66, and would still like to be working if I could. I was fortunate in enjoying the work and career I had. The last 8 years  I was only working 2 days a week, while still being well paid.

I would be a dinosaur in my particular field now, due to progress. I consider I worked in a golden age for meaningful employment, and sympathize with milennials with degrees who can only get menial casual work.

[BritManToo]

55 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Advice to younger people -- pick a work field that you love.

Advice to young people .... pick a field of work that makes you a lot of money.

I learned to hate every form of employment I ever had, so might as well just have gone for the big money.

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

JT, is there some reason you prefer to generalize from the 90th percentile, rather than, say, number closer to the median?  

 

Anyway, the statistic cited was from the 70's, so not worth arguing about.

 

Also, I am curious enough about your US occupation to take a stab in the dark.  Mortgage broker?

 

https://cdn.dqydj.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/net_worth_retirees_2016.png

No. In the tech field but not coding. Will say no more. 

[cmarshall]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I retired at age 66, and would still like to be working if I could. I was fortunate in enjoying the work and career I had. The last 8 years  I was only working 2 days a week, while still being well paid.

I would be a dinosaur in my particular field now, due to progress. I consider I worked in a golden age for meaningful employment, and sympathize with milennials with degrees who can only get menial casual work.

We boomers had the best of everything: higher ed was accessible and cheap, jobs easy to get along with incomes that rose in real terms, and we could all own a home.  We were surfing in our own wake.  We surpassed both our parents and the younger generation.

 

The millenials are screwed in every way.  Did we do it to them?

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Advice to young people .... pick a field of work that makes you a lot of money.

I learned to hate every form of employment I ever had, so might as well just have gone for the big money.

Yeah I get that. I definitely worked for money and was aggressive about my demands. If I hadn't I wouldn't have had a sort of forced early retirement as even an option!

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

No. In the tech field but not coding. Will say no more. 

Sympathies.  There were lots of folks who were out for a while, but I haven't heard many stories of 80% drops in income.

[Jingthing]

Just now, cmarshall said:

We boomers had the best of everything: higher ed was accessible and cheap, jobs easy to get along with incomes that rose in real terms, and we could all own a home.  We were surfing in our own wake.  We surpassed both our parents and the younger generation.

 

The millenials are screwed in every way.  Did we do it to them?

OK, boomer!

The truth is in the U.S. anyway there are lots of boomer generation people that have not been so fortunate. Male suicide rates among somewhat older men are at historically high rates. 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

"With "The wonders of hindsight" doubt many wouldn't change some aspects of their working life, I certainly would!

One things for sure I would not give ANY so called "financial adviser" the time of day! never met one who wasn't a scumbag!

Some are scumbags, but some are not too bad.

And getting advice from the bankers like "buy Lehman Brothers" is also not such a good idea.

[cmarshall]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK, boomer!

The truth is in the U.S. anyway there are lots of boomer generation people that have not been so fortunate. Male suicide rates among somewhat older men are at historically high rates. 

Our incomes went up, but so did our risk as companies and governments forced risk upon us as detailed in Jacob Hacker's "The Great Risk Shift: The New Economic Insecurity and the Decline of the American Dream."

[ivor bigun]

12 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

We boomers had the best of everything: higher ed was accessible and cheap, jobs easy to get along with incomes that rose in real terms, and we could all own a home.  We were surfing in our own wake.  We surpassed both our parents and the younger generation.

 

The millenials are screwed in every way.  Did we do it to them?

Yes by having them ,there are just to many people now .

[cmarshall]

4 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Yes by having them ,there are just to many people now .

Facile, but unpersuasive.  The millenial generation is, in 2019, almost exactly equal to the boomers at about 72 million each.  So, they were just replacements.

[Presnock]

58 because I max'd out at what I could receive.  If I continued, I would be working for about 30 cents an hour.  Just not worth it as it wouldn't have enabled me to receive more during retirement.  Don't need to work either here or in the US but like the weather here better and the food is much cheaper as I like

Thai foods.  Housing is a tad cheaper but vehicles are more expensive.  It all works out in the end.

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Presnock said:

Housing is a tad cheaper but vehicles are more expensive. 

My bicycle in Thailand cost less than half what it would cost in the west.

My house in Thailand cost 1/5 of the cost of a similar house in the UK.

Edited December 7, 2019 by BritManToo

[Number 6]

15 hours ago, cmarshall said:

I wasn't inquiring about meeting the income requirements for your visa, but funding your cost of living when your salary income stops at retirement.  Will you qualify for US Social Security benefits?

 

Not to be impolite, but the monthly saving you specify is presumably 10k thai baht, not USD, correct?  Some US financial planners describe an adequate level of assets to fund retirement as being the range of 20 to 30 times expected annual expenses, assuming SS benefits are available.  What is your own thinking about how much you will need in savings/investment whether for the US or Thailand?

 

I thought I addressed that in the first sentence. I've sort of danced around your question because I don't want to discuss my financial situation publicly.

 

I believe I will have the income stream at 62. Yes, I can pull SS and at 62 should have 60k Thai baht income stream at current x rates. If need be I could sell securities from the horde to cover any issue and could live on 40-50k thb until my death excluding medical issues. 800k is already banked (actually far more) needing only 400k. I think at 62 I could have 2.5m saved in Thai bank perhaps. Additional US miscellaneous cash accounts and two 401ks and other illiquid investments not land parcels.

 

One thing I did was put all my assets in tax deferred vehicles and vowed never to touch them until minimum 59.5 but 62. I'll hold off on pulling SS till 65 perhaps. But at that point I'll take it. Maybe even 62 because I don't trust US not to inflate the currency.

 

The 10k I cited is what my wife saves from her job which I doubt she could save a similar amount in the US. Every little bit counts. It's all about not burning your cash. Staying net positive.

 

I don't listen to financial people. That's a recipe for sadness. Youll never find a financial talking head that will tell you you've saved enough. Both my wife and myself would be very happy with a simple life living in Thai national park island five months a year or simple condo in South Florida. The beach is our happiness. We could snorkel, lay in hammock, play games, live in a tent cook outdoors forever. We've spent months camping in Western US we loved it. But camping isn't cheap haha.

 

When you're old you need not spend lots of money. After you finish up traveling it's a simple life. I think that's a false bill of goods the huge sums people NEED to stay happy and healthy.

 

In the end what do we need? A loving partner, comfortable dwelling, healthy food, decent medical care. Do your living when you're young and can enjoy it. Reading in a hammock on the beach, cooking grilled fish costs nothing.

 

I've always been a mad saver. I have no problems living simply, but I enjoy quality as well. So I am thrifty but splurge on quality goods that last. I developed some life philosophies that I often now see espoused on Internet sites such as Lifehacker. How I view money. I could live my life and not eat another pizza, burger or piece of bread again and be fine. I live Thai food and it's cheap. I live a Thai middle class existence.

 

To directly answer your final question how much I'll need. Every satang I can muster. Both my wife and myself expenses are currently I'm guessing 35k per month living in central BKK. This excludes big tick stuff like medical or trips. We both spend for mass transit.

 

I also have a long shot opportunity that will come in when I hit 75+ piece of property and another total gamble but if that parcel can be developed that could be some good money BUT the former on sale 100% on track if the economy stays solid. The latter is a total crapshoot but could be huge money.

 

We will only move to Florida if the housing caves like it did in 2010. It softens by the month. I've given up on owning here but if I bought something outright it would definitely damage the income stream. Given the vagaries of owning here I'm ok with not owning especially at these ridiculous prices.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Number 6

[sunnyboy2018]

I was laid off at 62 and kinda wanted to work a bit more but once I started physically taxing travel requiring strength,  endurance and balance I was glad I had retired early.  I would reccomend early retirement to everyone.

[victor15]

Retired British forces, retired at 40

[meechai]

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Do early retirees regret not waiting? Do later retirees regret waiting?

I will just say no not at all am I regretful that I started enjoying my life sooner than later.

 

Also to those who chose to work or wait for 70 etc to claim SS  65 retire etc etc ...it is all good but they can only be proved right if they live to 90 etc

Even then what is the quality of life at 70 compared to 55 etc?

 

But I understand it is a personal choice

Edited December 8, 2019 by meechai

[Proboscis]

It does depend on what you mean by retirement. In recent years I got so tired of having to go through so much nonsense in my regular job - the only way of getting on was to "push back" all the time. You get to spend so much time dealing with idiocy and pushing back against them that you get very little real work done. 

 

After I resigned, the function I ran collapsed, which has affected the organization. I refused to go back. Now I have settled into a life where I do what a want. Some of it involves paid projects that I really like. Others are unpaid projects for good causes that I also really like. My health has improved, especially as I don't have to work weekends because of problems created by colleagues. I wish I had done it sooner.

[klauskunkel]

Stopped working at 42. Best thing I ever did.

[cmarshall]

2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

One thing I did was put all my assets in tax deferred vehicles and vowed never to touch them until minimum 59.5 but 62. I'll hold off on pulling SS till 65 perhaps. But at that point I'll take it. Maybe even 62 because I don't trust US not to inflate the currency.

 

I think our boomer generation (I'm an okay Boomer!) was similar to our parents in that we lived in fear of the return a particular economic disaster that never did come back.  For our parents that was the Depression, while for us it was the high inflation of the 70's.  So, I think fear of inflation is irrational.  Fear of the Japanization of the US economy is somewhat more to the point.  The graph below shows the trend for real interest rates for the past 800 years.  The current cusp of negative interest rates is right on trend.

 

Good luck.  I hope your plan works.

 

https://economics.rutgers.edu/downloads-hidden-menu/news-and-events/workshops/money-history-and-finance/1823-paulschmelzing?format=html

 

[Jingthing]

Viewing the results, I see that as I expected retirees in Thailand (or interested in Thailand) are generally retiring well under the age that government pensions typically start internationally (well into the 60s). Of course there are many exceptions, military retirement which is earlier, independently "wealthy" people, etc. I think the reasons are obvious and it's a global phenomena. Earlier retirees (whether by choice or by some kind of external forces as in my personal case) quite often seek lower cost places to live, as their money needs to last longer than those retiring at advanced ages. Thailand (recently to a lesser degree though) offers that as do a number of other countries with formal or informal retirement visa programs. Of course Thailand offers a formal retirement status quite early at age 50 which interestingly was changed some time ago down from age 55. 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think the reasons are obvious and it's a global phenomena. Earlier retirees (whether by choice or by some kind of external forces as in my personal case) quite often seek lower cost places to live, as their money needs to last longer than those retiring at advanced ages.

Disagree with your conclusion.

My view, guys still wanting sex with younger and attractive partners move away from the western world.

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by BritManToo