I was disrespected (he said)

[simon43]

There's a topic running in another thread where the OP states that he and his wife were 'disrespected' by embassy staff when she applied for a visa to visit the USA.

 

I've got no criticism of that OP, and good luck in getting the visa.

 

But <deleted> does it matter if you were 'disrespected'?  What does it actually mean?  Did the staff fail to doff their hats and bow low to you?  I'm at a loss about this often-stated phrase.  I personally don't give a flying <deleted> how much someone 'disrespects' me.  It seems to be a complaint from sports stars, those with a not-so-white skin and those applying for visas....

 

Is it really such a big issue for some people?  Sticks and stones etc.

 

 

[giddyup]

Actually, I couldn't really work out how his wife was disrespected other than being refused a visa to the US. 

[from the home of CC]

To me, I read it as he was feeling disrespected as an American citizen through the actions of the embassy official making a decision concerning his wife, and I totally get it. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by from the home of CC

[sirocco]

Myself, reading the title of this message, I suspected insults, the file thrown in the face of the applicant and other incivilities. (In my job, it happened to me often).
But this is a refusal, justified or not.
Bah! you have to take things philosophically and start over again. There is no death of man, just a stay to move.

But I hope that his request will succeed and especially that he avoids writing to the whole world.

[AlexRich]

I don’t like the term “disrespected” either, and the US expat really means that he wasn’t treated fairly or well. Which may indeed be true.

 

If his wife was German, Swedish, Japanese ... it probably wouldn’t have been an issue ... as these are considered developed countries were citizens are less likely to stay illegally. That seems to be the thinking.

[stevenl]

Op and his wife put in a lot of effort in a visa application to meet all requirements, including assembling a lot of paperwork. According to the OP the officer did not even have a look at it. So yes, I would call that disrespecting. The officer should at least have had the decency to have a look at all the, for the application required, paperwork.

[shy coconut]

24 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

To me, I read it as he was feeling disrespected as an American citizen through the actions of the embassy official making a decision concerning his wife, and I totally get it. 

I don't think the post would have been made if the application was successful, so it seems

he is more upset at the decision rather than the personal interaction, that he wasn't witness to.

 

[Sheryl]

The OP himself was not at the interview so no way he could have been treated disrespectfully.

 

But entirely possible his wife was, and perhaps he takes that personally.

 

There are myriad ways a person can convey disrespect to another. Tone of voice, facial expression, failure to use courteous phrases etc.

 

We have no way of knowing  what exactly about the interaction made the woman feel she was disrespected but I doubt it was "failure to doff their hats and bow low".

 

Since the Consular officer made a decision without examining any of the supportive documentation or asking much in the way of questions it sounds like they formed an unfavorable an opinion of the woman being interviewed based on her overall appearance (as does happen),  and this quite likely showed in their verbal and non verbal commuication.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[from the home of CC]

Just now, shy coconut said:

I don't think the post would have been made if the application was successful, so it seems

he is more upset at the decision rather than the personal interaction, that he wasn't witness to.

 

I agree. The disrespect feeling comes with being a citizen of a country and all that entails (taxes etc) and having a member of your family treated as a criminal without a trial, I've experienced this and it definitely leaves a bitter taste..

[Curt1591]

Read the post. Other than a son, from another man, I didn't catch any compelling reason for her to return to Thailand.

 

[torturedsole]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Since the Consular officer made a decision without examining any of the supportive documentation or asking much in the way of questions it sounds like they formed an unfavorable an opinion of the woman being interviewed based on her overall appearance (as does happen),  and this quite likely showed in their verbal and non verbal commuication.

Maybe the applicant had previous 'form', but we'll never know.  

[NanLaew]

That post starts with the word disrespected without any attribution as to who has been disrespected so one can only assume THAT OP thinks his wife was disrespected, ergo, he has been disrespected? Kinda like an American style loss of face thing and he's probably getting it in the ear big time from his old lady for her being cheated (her opinion) by his embassy. Maybe his expectations of the US Consular service afforded to US citizens and their foreign born wives abroad is far removed from reality? Maybe he didn't do due diligence on A ) her application, or B ) her life before he met her 6 years ago.

 

Back to THIS OP's suggestion that it doesn't matter if one thinks one has been disrespected and personally not caring if he is disrespected. I can see where it may matter to someone in authority to be seen to be disrespected by someone either less educated, younger or subordinate. A student getting smart-mouthed with a teacher for example? I guess it's all down to ones own perceptions and expectations really. If the teacher can see the student for what he is, a grandstanding juvenile, then it shouldn't rent too much space in teachers head.

 

Now if my kids or my wife disrespect me, well that's a whole different kettle of wombats IMHO.

[simon43]

My post wasn't specifically about this member and his wife.  I cited his post merely to highlight the word 'disrespected'.  Some posters are saying that he/she WAS disrespected etc.  That suggests that these posters also don't like to be disrespected.

 

Is this an American thing?  Maybe I've been living out in t'sticks for too long.  I don't give a *** if someone 'disrespects' me - it's their problem, not mine.  Why should I waste time and stress getting hot and bothered about what someone else thinks of me?  

[Sheryl]

I hardly think Americans are alone on not liking to be treated in a rude and demeaning manner.

 

Perhaps you are misinterpreting / overthinking the term "disrespected". 

 

 

[BestB]

24 minutes ago, simon43 said:

My post wasn't specifically about this member and his wife.  I cited his post merely to highlight the word 'disrespected'.  Some posters are saying that he/she WAS disrespected etc.  That suggests that these posters also don't like to be disrespected.

 

Is this an American thing?  Maybe I've been living out in t'sticks for too long.  I don't give a *** if someone 'disrespects' me - it's their problem, not mine.  Why should I waste time and stress getting hot and bothered about what someone else thinks of me?  

I understand where you coming from and what you trying to say. These days when people do not get things their way , exactly how they want it all becomes “disrespectful” and bad service . 
 

fact that perhaps their demands were unreasonable or behaviour out of line makes little difference as the entire world revolves around them.

Edited December 10, 2019 by BestB

[sanemax]

I Think he choose the wrong word , instead of using "disrespected and insulted" , he should have used the word *Unfairly* 

[chuang]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Op and his wife put in a lot of effort in a visa application to meet all requirements, including assembling a lot of paperwork. According to the OP the officer did not even have a look at it. So yes, I would call that disrespecting. The officer should at least have had the decency to have a look at all the, for the application required, paperwork.

I called that laissez-faire..

[torturedsole]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Op and his wife put in a lot of effort in a visa application to meet all requirements, including assembling a lot of paperwork. According to the OP the officer did not even have a look at it. So yes, I would call that disrespecting. The officer should at least have had the decency to have a look at all the, for the application required, paperwork.

In the UK the refusal of a visa application would close out with a letter of refusal clearly defining the reason(s) of the adjudicator.  The US choose not to which is entirely their prerogative.  

 

I get the feeling that the OP of the original thread is the one that feels disrespected rather than his wife.  

 

Visa applications are a bit like Groundhog Day and you keep going until you get it right and we've no proof that the adjudicator didn't look at the supporting documentation as it's hearsay.  As I stated earlier, it could well be a case that the applicant has previous form with US immigration and was outright refused on her history and she hasn't been entirely honest with her husband.  Again, we'll never know.

[Sheryl]

I get the feeling that "disrespected" (or "dissed" as commonly said) may be an Americanism not well understood outside the US.

 

It means intentionally demeaned/ insulted. Enteted the venacular back in the hip hop era and stuck. 

 

No way would the poster referred to have included that word if he did not mean that in addition to what he felt was an unfair decision, his wife was treated in a demeaning manner. Insult on top of injury so to speak.

 

Now as he was not present he is basing this on her version which may or may not have included details. So he might have heard descriptions of things he felt were insulting or she may just have come out of the interview upset and feeling that way and he assumed her feeling was justified. We don't know.

 

Consular officers doing visa interviews are typically young (no one wants to do this work so it gets handed to the most junior officers) and may be new to Thailand. They could easily cause offense without meaning to especially if the interrviewee was older than themselves.  But it also is sadly not uncommon that they come to have a very negative view of Thai people, hate their jobs, and especially at the end of a long day can look and sound pretty derisive. 

 

Anyhow -- this is what "disrespected"  or "dissed" means in modern American speech. 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 12/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, simon43 said:

Is it really such a big issue for some people?  Sticks and stones etc.

 

Yes and no....  I expect to be treated with nothing more than a general indifference, I don't find that disrespectful, I simply find it 'not polite' which doesn't really bother me. 

 

However, when someone is outwardly rude or impolite there will be a response, that situation is extremely rare. 

[GinBoy2]

It's an interesting word to use in this situation.

 

Many years ago before we were married, we tried to get a visitors visa for my then gf, to go visit my daughter who'd had a baby.

 

Professional woman, went to school and college in the US, speaks English with a typical Midwest accent. Slam dunk we thought.

 

Nope, turned down at the interview.

 

Next time she went into the US Embassy, it was for her immigrant visa interview, which was approved.

 

After reading this thread, I asked her how she was treated in both cases. Her answer was that both times it was much the same. Very flat no expression, CO showed virtually no emotion one way or the other.

 

Only difference was one was denied the other approved.

 

I suspect, as someone else said, the OP is confusing 'angry and disappointed' with disrespect, which has to be true since he couldn't even have been there for the interview.

 

Tourist visas for Thai's, especially women are a crapshoot, even when you think you're ticking all the boxes!

Edited December 11, 2019 by GinBoy2

[Lacessit]

Respect is something that has to be earned - it is not given automatically.

Having said that, if I feel someone has disrespected me, I let them know about it, and don't associate with them again.

One cannot expect respect from bureaucracies. We are an inconvenience.

[Chazar]

On 12/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, simon43 said:

I'm at a loss about this often-stated phrase.

its there for the generation of  pansies  that now seem to dominate the  world, where anything and everything affects  their  poor  little  delicate  souls.

[jesimps]

Probably means they were talked down to and patronised, which I can well believe from embassies these days. A country's citizens abroad get about as much respect as a dog turd, even if they've paid (and still pay) full taxes to that country.

[moe666]

If a someone gets upset that their supporting documentation wasn't looked at get over it. I have been through this twice with my wife and both times we collected info for the interview. The first try was a bust when she told the interviewer we were not married although we had been living together for 6 years. The next go round we had been married two years she had a different person doing the interview and the lady was handing out visas like candy. Remember in the instruction it says you can have compelling information to present but no where does it say it is required.

Ihave come to the conclusion that the process is dependant on the form you fill out and submit on the computer. The extra info one collects is totally a hen scratching exercise for the applicant.

[moe666]

41 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Probably means they were talked down to and patronised, which I can well believe from embassies these days. A country's citizens abroad get about as much respect as a dog turd, even if they've paid (and still pay) full taxes to that country.

I have been to the US conslate in CM many times and have never been treated in other than a professional manner. On one visit they did have a problem and interviewed the man in a secure booth. He was very upset about something but it seemed he was missing information they needed to complete the documentation. The one person I remember the best was the guy who told the lady behind the glassed in enclosure that he had been on the staff of Ronald Regan. She was a bit young to have really cared who Regan happen to be, she smiled and grinned thats nice. . 

[emptypockets]

Look on the bright side, if he gets knocked back for a visa a second time he can feel offended as well as disrespected.

 

[mamypoko]

On 12/10/2019 at 2:21 AM, simon43 said:

My post wasn't specifically about this member and his wife.  I cited his post merely to highlight the word 'disrespected'.  Some posters are saying that he/she WAS disrespected etc.  That suggests that these posters also don't like to be disrespected.

 

Is this an American thing?  Maybe I've been living out in t'sticks for too long.  I don't give a *** if someone 'disrespects' me - it's their problem, not mine.  Why should I waste time and stress getting hot and bothered about what someone else thinks of me?  

Don't make me laugh. An American thing? You live in Asia, right? Substitute 'disrespected' with 'losing.face'.

 

I'm being direct because I know you won't waste time getting stressed...hot and bothered. cool

but others do, no? 

[thailand49]

On 12/10/2019 at 2:21 AM, simon43 said:

My post wasn't specifically about this member and his wife.  I cited his post merely to highlight the word 'disrespected'.  Some posters are saying that he/she WAS disrespected etc.  That suggests that these posters also don't like to be disrespected.

 

Is this an American thing?  Maybe I've been living out in t'sticks for too long.  I don't give a *** if someone 'disrespects' me - it's their problem, not mine.  Why should I waste time and stress getting hot and bothered about what someone else thinks of me?  

I understand your point but you actually have to be there to really understand and being an American really has nothing to do with it!

 

Years ago maybe 10 plus, you were allow to attend with your wife or the person who you were applying.  Some say I might have been the one who cause the change in policy?

 

I understand they are doing their jobs and have a set of guidelines to follow. In my particular case I didn't walk in with a chip on my shoulder but government or not there is a standard of customer service and being an Embassy doesn't exclude them. Certainly I too couldn't care much of being disrespected as long as they are doing their job but I'm no punching bag nor should someone I love be.

 

In my interview I went as a observer provided all the necessary documents prior knowing to sit back and let them do their job only help if my wife got confused and couldn't answer the questions. What happen isn't a representation of the entire Embassy staffing but the agent became very aggressive and started to badger her so I stepped in since our son (6) was standing right there. Basically the agent was saying my wife and I was lying because we should be applying for a resident instead of a tourist. She couldn't understand or wouldn't listen as to why I hadn't applied for a Retirement Extension otherwise she would have granted the Visa. I explained I had just retired from my job last week so documentation from my employer. I'm not one to throw out names but I ask the agent in our packet is there a letter from so and so it explains my situation if not I have a copy with me. The response from the agent " I couldn't give a <deleted>> what letter you have and who it is from and threw it on the floor and said I've not have time for this I was shocked did I get mad, argue, no I accepted the decision and left.

 

Prior to leaving the U.S. for the interviewed I was offer help a letter was written for me and forward to the Embassy head prior to the interview basically guaranteeing my application. As we in general think " government can't run anything the left doesn't know the right hand is doing " but my instruction was when I walk out of the interview I was supposed to report back which is exactly what I did.

 

The help I was getting was basically from the current House speaker herself who was then just became House Speaker for the first time and help from the Head of the Foreign Affairs committee and their staffing. Told them exactly what happen and what was said. Two weeks later I was told to go back to the Embassy with my family to meet after hours and obtain my Tourist Visit for my family.

 

Is it me? I'm an American Citizen and regardless of it being an Embassy there is a way as to how you treat people regardless if they are Thais or not. I believe in treat others as you like yourself to be treated! I met the agent again did I glow or disrespect  no I shook hands and said I fully understand you doing your job. 

 

 

[Thaidream]

On 12/10/2019 at 5:21 PM, simon43 said:

My post wasn't specifically about this member and his wife.  I cited his post merely to highlight the word 'disrespected'.  Some posters are saying that he/she WAS disrespected etc.  That suggests that these posters also don't like to be disrespected.

 

Is this an American thing?  Maybe I've been living out in t'sticks for too long.  I don't give a *** if someone 'disrespects' me - it's their problem, not mine.  Why should I waste time and stress getting hot and bothered about what someone else thinks of me?  

It's not an an American thing it' a human thing.  It is especially egregious when a person in authority  discusses  you in front of someone else in a negative way/

 

Every person deserves to be treated with respect and dignity and not lumped into someone's preconceived perception of who they might be based upon a general view of their nationality, race, ethinc background etc. It's called discrimination and bigotry and needs to be called out when possible.

 

While it may not bother you to be treated poorly as long as you get what you want, it bothers most people because  there is no reason for it.  

 

I remember years ago going with my wife to a Thai Bank with a cashiers check that we needed access to for medical care.  The Manager was reluctant to cash the check commenting in Thai  that foreigners were not to be trusted and using the term 'It' to refer to foreigners  This term is considered highly offensive and I underestood what was going on.  Somehow, I held my tongue as did my wife and  the check was cashed.

 

While we got what we needed- this  bigoted comment by a person in authority, obviously educated,  highly disturbed both myself and my spouse.  

 

The issue with  the Us Embassy is highly offensive because  the officer would not even look at the evidence prepared by the applicant. There may have been documentation that would have swayed the interviewed into approving the  Visa. Such an experience is  the height of arrogance and  needs to be called out.

 

IMO- I never disrespect others and I want rto be treated the same way.