British PM Johnson to win a majority of 86: exit poll

[SheungWan]

7 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Democracy? LOL
Con got 43,6 % from all votes and 365 seats.
Lab and Lib together got 43,8% from all votes and 214 seats.
The UK electoral system does not represent the actual votes / proportions of the population in the UK parliament.
The deviations of the actual voting ratios are enormous.
Actually, Con and (Lab + Lib) should have the same number of seats.
The deviation here is 151 seats.
Democrazy.

The British Parliamentary system is not organised on total votes per Party. Nor can you assume that there might have been a Lib-Lab government if there had been. Nor can you suggest that the elected parliament is illegitimate because it is doesn't meet your criteria. The laws as to Parliamentary democracy are set out in Parliament. Parliament can change them if it so wishes. Some years ago there was a referendum to change elections to a proportional voting system. It lost. Either you play by the rules or spend the next 5 years moaning. There is one project for Labour and that is to move to the centre ground. Either that or lose a 5th election in a row.

[sunnyboy2018]

28 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

And slipping back down again.

I was correcting the poster who said the baht was soaring. But anyway currently the pound is just over 40bt. It was about 53 the week before Brexit so we have a long way to go. But as the  British economy stabilizes and the Euro declines Sterling will become a desirable currency again. That the last  three years of economic doldrums have not had a more deleterious effect on the UK economy indicates its resilience and indicates future economic growth and stability and a strong sterling.

[SheungWan]

Just now, stevenl said:

Yes, if you don't understand a post it may seem on topic. Rejecting 'neo Marxist nonsense' has nothing to do with objections against the principles of an election based on districts as opposed to proportional representation.

Banging the drum about a different electoral system is just a distraction from the necessary removal of Corbyn and his policies from the Labour Party.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I was correcting the poster who said the baht was soaring. But anyway currently the pound is just over 40bt. It was about 53 the week before Brexit so we have a long way to go. But as the  British economy stabilizes and the Euro declines Sterling will become a desirable currency again. That the last  three years of economic doldrums have not had a more deleterious effect on the UK economy indicates its resilience and indicates future economic growth and stability and a strong sterling.

Present clarity will lead to increase in euro as well. Sorry, pound as a desirable currency left the room in late 40's of the previous century.

[stevenl]

Just now, SheungWan said:

Banging the drum about a different electoral system is just a distraction from the necessary removal of Corbyn and his policies from the Labour Party.

Disagree, but nothing to do with my post, which was an explanation to another member what the post he reacted to was about.

[nkg]

20 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

What on earth are you on about? Gina Miller took legal action to defend parliamentary democracy. No link between that and any current demo in London, nor how people voted in the UK. There is no such thing as a non-binding Parliamentary election.

 

That's strange, most Russians I meet have a great sense of humour.

[sunnyboy2018]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, if you don't understand a post it may seem on topic. Rejecting 'neo Marxist nonsense' has nothing to do with objections against the principles of an election based on districts as opposed to proportional representation.

People understand that the same moaners who query the validity of the election results also opposed the results of the Brexit vote. It is not the system of voting that is at issue. It is the results they dont like. It is also apparent that all sides agreed to fight this and every other election with these rules and then to view the results through the lense of a completely different system of voting is just sour grapes and hard cheese. The result of the the election was a humiliating rejection of the cult of Corbyn and and his anti democracy cohort- anyway you count the votes or try to twist the results. Next you'll be blaming the right wing 'meedjuh.'

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, nauseus said:

So enough of the election then...it hurts too much...better back to Brexit bashing...haw haw haw

The election result makes me wonder why anyone would vote the tories and johnson back in power. It would be interesting to read feedback from constituents - whether it was brexit, a rejection of Labour, or a mixture of both that was the main motivator.

 

I suspect that the overriding factor was one of change. A new PM promising the planet for everyone, an initial brexit passage from the EU, and possibly at long last, a business stability.

[sunnyboy2018]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Disagree, but nothing to do with my post, which was an explanation to another member what the post he reacted to was about.

Thats me. And 50 years ago when studying and qualifying in constitutional law I might have bothered partaking in the cul de sac discussion of the merits or otherwise of the various voting systems. But I chose not to as it is not as important as solid red constituencies turning blue and other historic mile stones in voting patterns that took place yesterday.

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

People understand that the same moaners who query the validity of the election results also opposed the results of the Brexit vote. It is not the system of voting that is at issue. It is the results they dont like. It is also apparent that all sides agreed to fight this and every other election with these rules and then to view the results through the lense of a completely different system of voting is just sour grapes and hard cheese. The result of the the election was a humiliating rejection of the cult of Corbyn and and his anti democracy cohort- anyway you count the votes or try to twist the results. Next you'll be blaming the right wing 'meedjuh.'

The validity of the result is not being queried.

 

And after that remark again your usual deflection. No point in this.

[roo860]

49 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Banging the drum about a different electoral system is just a distraction from the necessary removal of Corbyn and his policies from the Labour Party.

Well said sir.

[sandyf]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:44 AM, Forethat said:

Looks like Boris will get Brexit done after all. Considering this was more of a Brexit-referendum than anything else, I guess this answers the question whether there's a majority for Brexit...

Only the UK system would provide that interpretation, 52% of the vote went to parties supporting a second referendum.

Labour paved the way with their choice of leader, Jonson may have won the battle but the UK has lost the war.

 

[DannyCarlton]

29 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I was correcting the poster who said the baht was soaring. But anyway currently the pound is just over 40bt. It was about 53 the week before Brexit so we have a long way to go. But as the  British economy stabilizes and the Euro declines Sterling will become a desirable currency again. That the last  three years of economic doldrums have not had a more deleterious effect on the UK economy indicates its resilience and indicates future economic growth and stability and a strong sterling.

Oh, I so wish that were true! Unfortunately completely false. You are correct in saying the £ jumped above 50 baht, days before the referendum. This was on release of the final poll before the referendum which showed remain with a clear lead. As soon as the referendum result was announced, the £ began to plummet, quickly reaching 45 baht. It has continued to decline, particularly under the threat of a no deal Brexit (which is currently far from removed).

 

During the last 18 months the decline in the £ has been exacerbated by the strength of the baht, taking the £ down to 37 at the end of August this year. It recovered to near 39 before the election and currently sits at just over 40 and on it's way back down.

 

There has been a clear trend for the £ to rise as Brexit seemed less likely and fall with an increased lilklyhood of Brexit/no deal. The old chestnut of "uncertainty" only played a small part in the fluctuations but was used by Dominic Cummings to totally explain the fluctuations in the £. "If you tell a lie often enough, (stupid) people will believe it."

 

 The temporary euphoria of the big Tory win will soon subside and the £ will continue it's downward journey. At 40 baht, dip your bread in (as I did) it won't be there for long.

[DannyCarlton]

43 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The election result makes me wonder why anyone would vote the tories and johnson back in power. It would be interesting to read feedback from constituents - whether it was brexit, a rejection of Labour, or a mixture of both that was the main motivator.

 

I suspect that the overriding factor was one of change. A new PM promising the planet for everyone, an initial brexit passage from the EU, and possibly at long last, a business stability.

Early feedback from Labour constituents strongly indicate that Corbyn was the overiding factor.

[ThaiBunny]

Surely it's been obvious all along that Corbyn was just a Tory stooge, there to destroy the Labour Party?

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, Jip99 said:

Scotland remains fragmented

The election results would say otherwise.

Nicola Sturgeon got 81% of the available seats in Scotland.

What percentage of the available seats in England did Bojo get.

Quite obvious which leader won the election.

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The election results would say otherwise.

Nicola Sturgeon got 81% of the available seats in Scotland.

What percentage of the available seats in England did Bojo get.

Quite obvious which leader won the election.

The SNP gained because no-one was prepared to vote Labour. The Tories lost a handful of Scottish seats

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

The SNP gained because no-one was prepared to vote Labour. The Tories lost a handful of Scottish seats

You don't see any contradiction in the 2 statements you made here?

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

The SNP gained because no-one was prepared to vote Labour. The Tories lost a handful of Scottish seats

So you support the original poster that with 48 out of 59 seats Scotland is "fragmented".

[ThaiBunny]

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You don't see any contradiction in the 2 statements you made here?

No. Scots who did not want to vote Tory or Corbyn had only the SNP as a viable option (or LD for the marginally compos). That doesn't mean anything. I notice from a map of the results that the further an electorate is from Edinburgh the more likely it was to vote "anyone but SNP"

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

No. Scots who did not want to vote Tory or Corbyn had only the SNP as a viable option (or LD for the marginally compos). That doesn't mean anything. I notice from a map of the results that the further an electorate is from Edinburgh the more likely it was to vote "anyone but SNP"

You should try and notice a bit closer. I was brought up in Moray, historically an anti SNP area that stemmed from the days of Alex Salmond being an activist,  a ghost that has been hard to shake off.

Moray was held by the Tories with 22,112 against SNP with 21,599, the SNP vote being up 5.4% since 2017.

Now tell us again that the people of Moray voted for "anyone but SNP".

[ThaiBunny]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You should try and notice a bit closer. I was brought up in Moray, historically an anti SNP area that stemmed from the days of Alex Salmond being an activist,  a ghost that has been hard to shake off.

Moray was held by the Tories with 22,112 against SNP with 21,599, the SNP vote being up 5.4% since 2017.

Now tell us again that the people of Moray voted for "anyone but SNP".

We're on the same side - I'm all for Scots independence. The arguments over where to put the "Scottish backstop" will dwarf the ones about the Irish backstop. I can see this entertainment going on for years and years

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

We're on the same side - I'm all for Scots independence. The arguments over where to put the "Scottish backstop" will dwarf the ones about the Irish backstop. I can see this entertainment going on for years and years

No we are not, and your reference to a "Scottish backstop" highlights a distinct lack of understanding.

[transam]

2 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

And slipping back down again.

Bet that cheered you up a bit.........????.................????

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Bet that cheered you up a bit.........????.................????

Had the good sense to transfer a not insubstantial amount at it's peak. Unlike some, I'm not stupid.

[transam]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

The election result makes me wonder why anyone would vote the tories and johnson back in power. It would be interesting to read feedback from constituents - whether it was brexit, a rejection of Labour, or a mixture of both that was the main motivator.

 

I suspect that the overriding factor was one of change. A new PM promising the planet for everyone, an initial brexit passage from the EU, and possibly at long last, a business stability.

You obviously have missed the point that YOU are in the minority, time for you to tinker in the shed....????

[transam]

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Had the good sense to transfer a not insubstantial amount at it's peak. Unlike some, I'm not stupid.

Really, I thought your posts say otherwise......????

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Had the good sense to transfer a not insubstantial amount at it's peak. Unlike some, I'm not stupid.

My ol' Boris bells are starting to smoke! ????

[nkg]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Oh, I so wish that were true! Unfortunately completely false. You are correct in saying the £ jumped above 50 baht, days before the referendum. This was on release of the final poll before the referendum which showed remain with a clear lead. As soon as the referendum result was announced, the £ began to plummet, quickly reaching 45 baht. It has continued to decline, particularly under the threat of a no deal Brexit (which is currently far from removed).

 

During the last 18 months the decline in the £ has been exacerbated by the strength of the baht, taking the £ down to 37 at the end of August this year. It recovered to near 39 before the election and currently sits at just over 40 and on it's way back down.

 

There has been a clear trend for the £ to rise as Brexit seemed less likely and fall with an increased lilklyhood of Brexit/no deal. The old chestnut of "uncertainty" only played a small part in the fluctuations but was used by Dominic Cummings to totally explain the fluctuations in the £. "If you tell a lie often enough, (stupid) people will believe it."

 

 The temporary euphoria of the big Tory win will soon subside and the £ will continue it's downward journey. At 40 baht, dip your bread in (as I did) it won't be there for long.

 

The baht has been strong against every other major currency in the world over the last few years.

 

october 2016     $1 35 baht
now        $1 30 baht

 

I don't see anybody calling the USD weak.

 

The pound plummeted for 4 months following the referendum, but since then it has been gradually been recovering:

 

october 2016     £1 $1.21
october 2016     £1 1.11 euros
october 2016    £1 42 baht

now        £1 $1.33
now        £1 1.2 euros
now        £1 40 baht

 

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

The baht has been strong against every other major currency in the world over the last few years.

 

october 2016     $1 35 baht
now        $1 30 baht

 

I don't see anybody calling the USD weak.

 

The pound plummeted for 4 months following the referendum, but since then it has been gradually been recovering:

 

october 2016     £1 $1.21
october 2016     £1 1.11 euros
october 2016    £1 42 baht

now        £1 $1.33
now        £1 1.2 euros
now        £1 40 baht

 

Which is why we should put any spare monies into USD. Once Trump is impeached, the $ will recover.