UK PM Johnson cannot keep Scotland in union against its will: Sturgeon

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am not xenophobic.

You don't know the meaning of the word.

Do you think Israelis are xenophobic if they hate Germans?

 

Take these questions http://coda.org/index.cfm/meeting-materials1/patterns-and-characteristics-2011/

 

 

You are either trying to derail the topic or trolling.

 

If you hate the English you are very much a Xenophobe and I dislike exchanging posts with such, the dictionary is quite clear what a xenophobe is, and you are included by definition. 

 

xen·o·pho·bi·a

/ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/

noun

1. dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

[Neeranam]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are either trying to derail the topic or trolling.

 

If you hate the English you are very much a Xenophobe and I dislike exchanging posts with such, the dictionary is quite clear what a xenophobe is, and you are included by definition. 

 

xen·o·pho·bi·a

/ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/

noun

1. dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries.

So you can't answer the question, to highlight what xenophobia means.

Waiting for the answer.

 

Xenophobia is the fear of foreigners, not hatred. You obviously are not an educated native speaker.

[Rookiescot]

It has come to something when I am upticking messers Vogie and Laughing Gravy.

 

????????????

[Henryford]

On 12/18/2019 at 11:24 AM, nkg said:

 

Speaking of debts, if Scotland want to leave the UK, it is only fitting that they pay their "divorce bill".

 

The national debt is £1821 billion and Scotland are 8.4% of the population, so ......

 

1821*8.4/100

 

That's £153 billion you need to stump up before you can leave, Scotland. And we won't accept Scottish banknotes ????

 

 

I presume 153 billion of the existing debt would be transferred into Scotland's name with a new revised interest rate eg 10% pa.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

In what way? Your political aspirations, despite there being mountains of evidence of daily casual racism from a small number of Brexit supporters, even from the PM himself, is pure of intent, whereas mine is nasty and virulent?

 

Get over yourself. If Scottish independence was tainted by even a fraction of the incidents that we see daily because of Brexit we would RIGHTLY be castigated by all and sundry. But we do not point to the alarming rise of racism and racist incidents in England and say that this is the fault of Brexiteers because we know that this is representing only a tiny minitory of Brexit supporters. Your weak, lazy and contrived attempt to smear Scots as anti-English is genuinely insulting.

I am not saying your aspirations are nasty and virulent so please do not put words in my mouth.

 

I am saying that there is Anti English sentiment in Scotland. I know because I worked there and experienced it, sometimes in a jokey way and sometimes not. I have also provided examples of it. I am sure you are also aware of it but if you wish to deny it's existence that is fine with me. 

 

[Neeranam]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

So anti English that they elected a Tory last week!

Is the Tory English?

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

I am sure you are also aware of it but if you wish to deny it's existence that is fine with me. 

Many with this need to be loved come to Thailand, where the can retire in blissful denial that they are handsum men.

 

http://coda.org/index.cfm/meeting-materials1/patterns-and-characteristics-2011/

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

So you can't answer the question, to highlight what xenophobia means.

Waiting for the answer.

 

Xenophobia is the fear of foreigners, not hatred. You obviously are not an educated native speaker.

When a xenophobe has to revert to personal insults it is time to say enough is enough.

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, Henryford said:

I presume 153 billion of the existing debt would be transferred into Scotland's name with a new revised interest rate eg 10% pa.

Are you sure that you understand how government debt works?

[Henryford]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Are you sure that you understand how government debt works?

So how would it work in this case? Enlighten us dimwits.

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I am not saying your aspirations are nasty and virulent so please do not put words in my mouth.

 

I am saying that there is Anti English sentiment in Scotland. I know because I worked there and experienced it, sometimes in a jokey way and sometimes not. I have also provided examples of it. I am sure you are also aware of it but if you wish to deny it's existence that is fine with me. 

 

I don't need to put words in your mouth. This is what you wrote:

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I'm well aware how much the Scots dislike the English. Scottish nationalism is the same as any other form of nationalism

 and this:

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

I'm not bothered about the SNP's extreme nationalism and anti English sentiment,

So now you have gone from 'The scots dislike the English' and 'SNP's extreme nationalism' to 'there is anti-english sentiment'. Thank you for your climb down. 

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Henryford said:

So how would it work in this case? Enlighten us dimwits.

It would work in the same manner as every other government manages its debt. Google it. 

[Nurseynutcase]

On 12/16/2019 at 6:23 AM, steve187 said:

she just wants to get in the history books, my personal thought is to repair Hadrian's wall, and put up border/customs posts, but that's just me. if they broke from the rest of the UK, they would never get back into the EU, for 1 they are not strong enough and 2 the EU will be no more

RE the wall I can't lay bricks but I can make the bacon butties and the tea.  I hate the cold but would fly back for this!!!!

[Rookiescot]

22 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I am not saying your aspirations are nasty and virulent so please do not put words in my mouth.

 

I am saying that there is Anti English sentiment in Scotland. I know because I worked there and experienced it, sometimes in a jokey way and sometimes not. I have also provided examples of it. I am sure you are also aware of it but if you wish to deny it's existence that is fine with me. 

 

What examples?

One guy with a banner and Neeranam who has not lived in Scotland for over 30 years and obviously has no idea what is going on.

Then there are your anecdotal suggestions that there is "some" anti English sentiment. 

Hardly matches your baseless assertion that "I'm well aware how much the Scots dislike the English. Scottish nationalism is the same as any other form of nationalism".

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

What examples?

One guy with a banner and Neeranam who has not lived in Scotland for over 30 years and obviously has no idea what is going on.

Then there are your anecdotal suggestions that there is "some" anti English sentiment. 

Hardly matches your baseless assertion that "I'm well aware how much the Scots dislike the English. Scottish nationalism is the same as any other form of nationalism".

Couldn't resist. Everything is much better in Scotland.

 

 

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Couldn't resist. Everything is much better in Scotland.

 

 

Even I would be hard pressed to claim the weather in Scotland is better.

We did invent the telephone though ???? 

[RuamRudy]

So, getting back to the matters at hand, yesterday Holyrood voted 68-54 in favour of the Referendum (Scotland) Bill, which sets out general rules for the conduct of referendums that are within the competency of the Scottish parliament. This was followed by the ScotGov publishing a paper highlighting the case for another referendum. 

 

"In a statement at her official Bute House residence, she said: "We are therefore today calling for the UK government to negotiate and agree the transfer of power that would put beyond doubt the Scottish Parliament's right to legislate for a referendum on independence.

"I anticipate that in the short term we will simply hear a restatement of the UK government's opposition. But they should be under no illusion that this will be an end of the matter.""

 

She has firmly put the ball into Westminster's court - either they concede and allow a referendum (unlikely) or they have to explicitly state that they refuse to consent to the will of Scottish MSPs in relation to self-determination - a massive propaganda coup for the SNP.

[Nigel Garvie]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

So, getting back to the matters at hand, yesterday Holyrood voted 68-54 in favour of the Referendum (Scotland) Bill, which sets out general rules for the conduct of referendums that are within the competency of the Scottish parliament. 

Yes getting back to the matter in hand  is a sound idea. Probably enough on the topic of Xenophobia for all of us, but this remains to be said.

There are strong feelings in many countries, about the influx of different people, and indeed sharing a border with different people.  In Europe there is a degree of resentment in most small countries next to large ones, Portugal and Spain, Denmark and Germany. Then there are the Basques and the Bretons, the Flemish, and the Baltic republics etc etc. the Han look down on the minorities in China for example.

There are many people in the Highlands (And in Wales also no doubt) who feel that their old culture has been destroyed by the influx of 2nd home owners who feel that the the village hall is for whist drives and quizzes not Ceilidhs. 

In a world that is progressively more on the move (Due to climate change as much as anything else) There are big problems to be faced everywhere, which is a challenge to us, and will show whether we actually should be called Homo sapiens, or Homo stupidus maximus as we fight our way to extinction.

 

Scotland has it's faults, and there are a small minority of people who give it a bad image like every country, though we can be grateful that we don't suffer from widespread immigrant hatred and scapegoating.

 

One thing I do find irritating about the English though is that they just can't understand, that we do actually have a totally different culture. It still appears that deep down they believe that we really want to be just like them, and if only we were, we would see just how wonderful they really were, and how grateful their former colonies should have been. We are happy to live next door as friendly neighbours, but we don't want you to tell us what to plant in our garden. 

 

Incidentally without describing other posters as "Oi Poloi" (The many -  literally) neither of the definitions of Xenophobia given before is accurate (As I remember) It means fear of strangers (Xenos) not foreigners. 

[vogie]

36 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Incidentally without describing other posters as "Oi Poloi" (The many -  literally) neither of the definitions of Xenophobia given before is accurate (As I remember) It means fear of strangers (Xenos) not foreigners. 

Edited 25 minutes ago by Nigel Garvie

Actually you are wrong, but please check it out yourself.

 

Incidentally cul de sac means dead end street, literally 'bottom of a sack' from the latin culus meaning bottom, can you see where I'm coming from here?

[RuamRudy]

I guess it was inevitable, but the tragic state of Labour is laid bare today when they appointed Tony Lloyd, MP for Rochdale, as the Shadow Scottish Secretary. 

[Neeranam]

14 hours ago, vogie said:

When a xenophobe has to revert to personal insults it is time to say enough is enough.

You googled the word and took the first definition, lol. Have the integrity to admit you are wrong. 

Still waiting for the reply to the question about Israelis being xenophobic or not if they don't like Germans.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes getting back to the matter in hand  is a sound idea. Probably enough on the topic of Xenophobia for all of us, but this remains to be said.

There are strong feelings in many countries, about the influx of different people, and indeed sharing a border with different people.  In Europe there is a degree of resentment in most small countries next to large ones, Portugal and Spain, Denmark and Germany. Then there are the Basques and the Bretons, the Flemish, and the Baltic republics etc etc. the Han look down on the minorities in China for example.

There are many people in the Highlands (And in Wales also no doubt) who feel that their old culture has been destroyed by the influx of 2nd home owners who feel that the the village hall is for whist drives and quizzes not Ceilidhs. 

In a world that is progressively more on the move (Due to climate change as much as anything else) There are big problems to be faced everywhere, which is a challenge to us, and will show whether we actually should be called Homo sapiens, or Homo stupidus maximus as we fight our way to extinction.

 

Scotland has it's faults, and there are a small minority of people who give it a bad image like every country, though we can be grateful that we don't suffer from widespread immigrant hatred and scapegoating.

 

One thing I do find irritating about the English though is that they just can't understand, that we do actually have a totally different culture. It still appears that deep down they believe that we really want to be just like them, and if only we were, we would see just how wonderful they really were, and how grateful their former colonies should have been. We are happy to live next door as friendly neighbours, but we don't want you to tell us what to plant in our garden. 

 

Incidentally without describing other posters as "Oi Poloi" (The many -  literally) neither of the definitions of Xenophobia given before is accurate (As I remember) It means fear of strangers (Xenos) not foreigners. 

Best post. English will never understand Scots.

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Yes getting back to the matter in hand  is a sound idea. Probably enough on the topic of Xenophobia for all of us, but this remains to be said.

There are strong feelings in many countries, about the influx of different people, and indeed sharing a border with different people.  In Europe there is a degree of resentment in most small countries next to large ones, Portugal and Spain, Denmark and Germany. Then there are the Basques and the Bretons, the Flemish, and the Baltic republics etc etc. the Han look down on the minorities in China for example.

There are many people in the Highlands (And in Wales also no doubt) who feel that their old culture has been destroyed by the influx of 2nd home owners who feel that the the village hall is for whist drives and quizzes not Ceilidhs. 

In a world that is progressively more on the move (Due to climate change as much as anything else) There are big problems to be faced everywhere, which is a challenge to us, and will show whether we actually should be called Homo sapiens, or Homo stupidus maximus as we fight our way to extinction.

 

Scotland has it's faults, and there are a small minority of people who give it a bad image like every country, though we can be grateful that we don't suffer from widespread immigrant hatred and scapegoating.

 

One thing I do find irritating about the English though is that they just can't understand, that we do actually have a totally different culture. It still appears that deep down they believe that we really want to be just like them, and if only we were, we would see just how wonderful they really were, and how grateful their former colonies should have been. We are happy to live next door as friendly neighbours, but we don't want you to tell us what to plant in our garden. 

 

Incidentally without describing other posters as "Oi Poloi" (The many -  literally) neither of the definitions of Xenophobia given before is accurate (As I remember) It means fear of strangers (Xenos) not foreigners. 

Isn't part of the cry for Scottish independence the same cry for nostalgia that dominates brexit? Good old days are not coming back.

[melvinmelvin]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Isn't part of the cry for Scottish independence the same cry for nostalgia that dominates brexit? Good old days are not coming back.

that was an interesting entry, indeed, well worth reflecting over

 

(hmm, empire strikes back)

 

[melvinmelvin]

Just now, melvinmelvin said:

that was an interesting entry, indeed, well worth reflecting over

 

(hmm, empire strikes back)

 

 

and yes, further up in this thread,

 

Nic Gar omitted to stress that Scotand also has a different history than those duun south,

ie on the other side (of Hadrian)

 

 

[vogie]

Scotland does not have a mandate for splitting the United Kingdom up, Ian Blackford can blether as much as he likes but does anyone actually listen to him.

And it would seem the member on here that "hates the English" has the backing of other members on here too, I have in conclusion decided to change my stance on my thoughts of the SNP.

 

 

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scotland does not have a mandate for splitting the United Kingdom up, Ian Blackford can blether as much as he likes but does anyone actually listen to him.

And it would seem the member on here that "hates the English" has the backing of other members on here too, I have in conclusion decided to change my stance on my thoughts of the SNP.

 

 

Who is endorsing his views? From what I can see, he is in a minority of 1.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Isn't part of the cry for Scottish independence the same cry for nostalgia that dominates brexit? Good old days are not coming back.

I would disagree - many Brexiteers can recall pre-EU days. Scotland before the union is only known through history books. 

 

Independence minded Scots want the same as most people elsewhere - a fairer, more accountable government which works to better the lives of all.

 

We haven't had one of those in the UK in the last 15 years, and each passing day the prospect of the majority bloc of the electorate choosing that seems more and more remote. Time to go our own way rather than continue to be worn down by the feckless, corrupt and nasty bunch our neighbours insist on foisting upon us. 

[RuamRudy]

24 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scotland does not have a mandate for splitting the United Kingdom up, Ian Blackford can blether as much as he likes but does anyone actually listen to him.

And it would seem the member on here that "hates the English" has the backing of other members on here too, I have in conclusion decided to change my stance on my thoughts of the SNP.

 

 

When is a union not a union? When you are forced into it against your will, then told you are not allowed to leave. 

 

Johnson has 8% of Scottish MPs. Why has he more say over Scotland's future than the SNP with their 81%? 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

When is a union not a union? When you are forced into it against your will, then told you are not allowed to leave. 

 

Johnson has 8% of Scottish MPs. Why has he more say over Scotland's future than the SNP with their 81%? 

You are not being held in our Union against your will, remember you had a vote on it and the Scottish people decided they prefered to be in our Union, there is evidence to say that still is the case.

If I can just re-iterate, it is only the Scots Nationalists that want yet another referendum, the majority of the Scots do not. Would it be fair to say that the minority trying to dictate to the majority is vastly unfair and indeed unjust.