Failing a breath test

[djbarry]

So, a few months back my friend failed a roadside breath test for alcohol...He was taken to a police station in Bangkok where he was forced to take an official breath test although he believed it was his right not to and would rather give a blood sample for a more accurate reading...

The police were having none of it and due to bullying and a row that was going nowhere, my friend gave an official breath sample (and failed)  and eventually signed the paperwork.

Would any1 recommend he seek legal advise as he had to go to court, pay a fine and get banned off the road?

 

Thx in advance for your suggestions,

[DannyCarlton]

Won't be banned unfortunately. Just pay the fine. Next time try roadside negotiations. 20k baht max, 10k baht for a good negotiator.

[Tom F]

A question about the roadside, screening breath test.  The results appear in some sort of color, red or yellow, I think.  Does anyone out there know what the colors are, and what each indicates, e.g., pass or fail?

[richard_smith237]

22 minutes ago, Tom F said:

A question about the roadside, screening breath test.  The results appear in some sort of color, red or yellow, I think.  Does anyone out there know what the colors are, and what each indicates, e.g., pass or fail?

The 'wand' as its commonly termed in Thailand measures the presence of alcohol on the breath. 

IF failed (i.e. if alcohol is regonised) a further test may be administered (I imagine that's red).

 

The Police may use this 'initial failure' as a scare tactic to illicit an unofficial fine. 

A failed test should be followed up with a 'calibrated breathalyzer' either at the road side or back at the station. 

If this is failed, the failure becomes 'official' and guilty processed accordingly, usually processed at the station, charged a 20,000 baht bail and to appear in court at some point in the near future to face charges (usually a few thousand baht and some community service, although fines are increasing, including possible ban), the bail is returned. 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

46 minutes ago, djbarry said:

So, a few months back my friend failed a roadside breath test for alcohol...He was taken to a police station in Bangkok where he was forced to take an official breath test although he believed it was his right not to and would rather give a blood sample for a more accurate reading...

The police were having none of it and due to bullying and a row that was going nowhere, my friend gave an official breath sample (and failed)  and eventually signed the paperwork.

Would any1 recommend he seek legal advise as he had to go to court, pay a fine and get banned off the road?

 

Thx in advance for your suggestions,

 

Your 'friend' was over the legal limit when tested back at the station with an official device. 

He didn't help himself by getting into an argument when guilty of DUI.

 

There is official proof that your 'friend' was over limit. There is no proof contradicting this. 

 

What legal advise could you expect?

 

 

[richard_smith237]

45 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Won't be banned unfortunately. Just pay the fine. Next time try roadside negotiations. 20k baht max, 10k baht for a good negotiator.

A friend recently after 3 large beers negotiated a 6000 baht on the spot 'fine' and was allowed to continue on his way. 

 

 

It is the 'allowed to continue on his way' part which really bothers me.... If you pay, you are allowed to drink drive, which is an atrociously careless response. 

 

 

 

A friend in the UK was driving at 6am, got stopped, breathalysed, over the limit. Breathalysed back at the station, over the limit - processed for DUI. Breathalysed an hour later, under the limit and allowed to drive away. He lost his license for a year (I can't remember what his monetary fine was). 

 

I wonder if anyone who drink drives in Thailand would even be concerned if they lost there license and wouldn't just continue to drive without their license, after all, they've already proven they have no regard for Thai law. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by richard_smith237

[djbarry]

My question is Do you have the right to refuse the breath test at the station and give blood as an alternative?

Thx.....

[Vacuum]

5 minutes ago, djbarry said:

My question is Do you have the right to refuse the breath test at the station and give blood as an alternative?

Thx.....

What does it matter, the result would be the same, or worse.

[EricTh]

14 minutes ago, djbarry said:

My question is Do you have the right to refuse the breath test at the station and give blood as an alternative?

Thx.....

Why are you or someone so afraid of the breath test which is easier and cheaper than the blood test.

 

Breath test is always accurate, I can smell the alcohol from a person's mouth. I can also smell nicotine from a smoker. The machine just give a more accurate reading.

Edited December 28, 2019 by EricTh

[ColeBOzbourne]

50 minutes ago, djbarry said:

My question is Do you have the right to refuse the breath test at the station and give blood as an alternative?

Thx.....

He was driving drunk, putting other people's lives in danger, and your concern is were his rights violated by a technicality. No sympathy.

[PatOngo]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

What legal advise could you expect?

 

Here's some free legal advise....Don't drink and drive!

[MeePeeMai]

I remember reading that the "fail" limit for someone driving on a "temporary" two year Thai driver license is much less (1/2) than for someone caught on a 5 year driver's license.  Maybe someone can post the actual limits as I cannot recall right now (see edit below). 

 

As a comparison, In the USA the legal limit (in most places) is now 0.08

 

Here it is:  For your information, the legal limit for blood alcohol content while driving with a full (5 year) Thai driving license in Thailand is 0.05 (50 milligrams). The legal limit while driving on a 1 to 2 year Thai driving license or international driving permit is 0.02 (20 milligrams). This legal limit equates to grams of alcohol per 100 ml of blood.

 

Source:  https://www.pattayaunlimited.com/drunk-driving-penalties/

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by MeePeeMai
source added

[bbi1]

Would any1 recommend he seek legal advise as he had to go to court, pay a fine and get banned off the road?

Thx in advance for your suggestions

 

Always love these "asking for a friend" threads. My suggestion would be for you to tell to tell your "friend" to stop being a dumbass stupid fool who drives when over the limit and to grow a brain. He deserves whatever comes to him for being a dumbass drunk on the roads.

[Guderian]

Avoiding drinking and driving is indeed good advice, but preaching at a few errant farangs on a board like this is pointless when millions of Thais are willing and happy to drink and drive as much as want.

[Moonfire]

There are many factors around breath test. Also, they are not always correct but this also depends on such factors as time and the human error (the operator).

 

An example of time: You are in your house and drink half a 5th, walk out and get into your car (you just drank the half a 5th are you drunk? NO) At the stop sign near your house you hit a car, you are still very much sober. Now you wait on the police, medical 45 mins passes they have smelled alcohol and want to take you for a breath test. Another 45 mins have passed to get you to the station to start the test..... now depending what you have eaten (which does effect how quickly alcohol enters your system) and the time since you first took a drink your level of alcohol in your system is much higher than at the time of the wreck. This is the defense a lawyer should put on for you in cases of someone being killed by a drunk driver.

 

The counter to the above is this, there is a point where a person is at the peak of being drunk and lets say the accident happen when you are at your peak. The time it takes for the police, medical and to get the person to the station to do a breath test has allowed the blood alcohol level to go down, maybe to the point of being under the legal limit. This is the argument the prosecutor will take. 

 

A person being tested should be observed for 20 mins prior to taking the test. This is to ensure the subject does not put something in their mouths (some breath mints contain alcohol and it will show up) also that the subject does not burp or throw up. Burping into the machine can increase the reading "greatly".  I have personally seen a normal test where the reading was 0.03 and a retest where it was allowed to burp into the machine while testing; the reading was 0.15. 

 

Many moving parts here, such as the machine has to be officially calibrated by a trained and licensed tech. You can find failures up and down the process.

 

Lastly and most important, this is Thailand and how things are done here is beyond my knowledge. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Moonfire

[HHTel]

On 12/28/2019 at 12:11 PM, Tom F said:

A question about the roadside, screening breath test.  The results appear in some sort of color, red or yellow, I think.  Does anyone out there know what the colors are, and what each indicates, e.g., pass or fail?

The one time I was breathalysed the unit showed the result digitally, i.e. milligrams per 100.  Fortunately, I was well under.

 

A funny/silly story some years ago.

 

After teaching was finished at a uni in Petchaburi, I had some drinks with other teachers.  As soon as I got into the car, I realised that I was not fit to drive.  I called my wife and went to sleep in the back of the car.  At sometime in the night, I was awakened by banging on the car.  Outside was a police car and several police.  They asked me why I was sleeping in the car.  "I'm too drunk to drive so I'm sleeping".  "Okay.  You can go now but drive very slowly!"

Needless to say, I drove a short way then parked the car and went back to sleep in the back.

[jimn]

9 minutes ago, Moonfire said:

Lastly and most important, this is Thailand and how things are done here is beyond my knowledge. 

You could have saved yourself the trouble of writing out your exhaustive guide to what happens. You should know and I am sure you do that nothing over here follows any logic. My guide to what happens here is just carry 20k in the car and you are on your way lol.

[AgMech Cowboy]

23 hours ago, EricTh said:

Breath test is always accurate

That is just not true. The blood test will give true blood alcohol content, the breath test is only qualitative. Yes, you've been drinking and the mixture in your lungs indicate to might be too much, but that depends on your body chemistry. I had a friend who passed a breathalyzer after drinking 3/4 a bottle of whiskey in Vegas.  I tested 0.11 after drinking 6 bottles of Coors over a 6 hour period while attending a Country Western dance and participating in 90% of the dances. That was in May 1975, luckily, the law had been reduced from 0.15 just 5 months before and I was able to beat the charge with a sizable fine to a non moving violation (had 4 witnesses, too).  The police let my friend drive my car to impound and he had consumed about half a case in the same 8 hour period.

 

I've no idea about the 'choices' here, but I know the only quantitative measure is with the blood test.

[Nakmuay887]

23 hours ago, djbarry said:

My question is Do you have the right to refuse the breath test at the station and give blood as an alternative?

Thx.....

you probably could, although this is a bad idea. Blood is far more accurate and if your friend is being argumentative he's likely drunk and going to fail that test even worse than he would a simple breathalyzer. when I was doing my practicum back in Canada (criminal justice degree) guys that failed the breathalyzer always bombed the blood test after the fact. If another crime was committed than just the DUI the police would always want to opt for the blood test as it gives two avenues in court to prove the accused was in fact driving over the limit or being drunk and disorderly.

 

Your friend should have kept his mouth shut, blew on the damn thing and paid a fine or bribe and went home, arguing with law enforcement when you are clearly guilty is stupid. Doing so in Thailand is 100x more stupid

[Isaanbiker]

OP, there's a little difference.

 

According to the Department of Land Transport, the law states that drivers who have had their licenses for over five years are allowed to have a Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) of 0.05% when behind the wheel, while newer drivers are only allowed to have a BAC of 0.02%. Like many other countries, this is detected via a Breathalyzer owned by the police.

 

Violators will face either a hefty 60,000 THB fine and/or a 6-month prison sentence. Additionally, they may also get their licenses permanently revoked and be required to complete a set number of community service hours.

 

If a driver is a Foreign National, they may also risk deportation, depending on the severity of the case. If you kill somebody under the influence of alcohol, you are in deep shi_e. 

 

My advice is NOT to drink and drive. But if they stop you and the tester shows positive, try to negotiate before it goes to the police station/court.

 

I know a German who'd killed an innocent Thai when speeding in his Benz. 1 million baht saved him and nothing else happened. 

 

Please see: https://www.thailandlawyer.net/thailand-driving-under-the-influence-law/

      

Edited December 29, 2019 by Isaanbiker

[Seeall]

On 12/28/2019 at 12:46 PM, richard_smith237 said:

A friend recently after 3 large beers negotiated a 6000 baht on the spot 'fine' and was allowed to continue on his way. 

 

 

It is the 'allowed to continue on his way' part which really bothers me.... If you pay, you are allowed to drink drive, which is an atrociously careless response. 

 

 

 

A friend in the UK was driving at 6am, got stopped, breathalysed, over the limit. Breathalysed back at the station, over the limit - processed for DUI. Breathalysed an hour later, under the limit and allowed to drive away. He lost his license for a year (I can't remember what his monetary fine was). 

 

I wonder if anyone who drink drives in Thailand would even be concerned if they lost there license and wouldn't just continue to drive without their license, after all, they've already proven they have no regard for Thai law. 

 

 

 

 

 

All this talk about "the law"  so funny..... cops drive around drunk on the wrongs side of the road.. allow their underage kids 3-5 up on a bike to school ... and you think the cops have some consideration regarding "the law"  

[evadgib]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:03 PM, EricTh said:

Why are you or someone so afraid of the breath test which is easier and cheaper than the blood test.

My fear (in loS) is that a previous driver's reading might show up on a teetotaler who happens to be next in the queue or that the ol' nose-dropper of whisky might have been inserted by opportunists hoping to extort lone/vulnerable targets.

(Drunk drivers deserve everything they get!)

Edited December 29, 2019 by evadgib

[DennisE]

Legal advice? Don’t drink and drive. 

[Suradit69]

On December 28, 2019 at 12:38 PM, richard_smith237 said:

to illicit an unofficial fine. 

Both driving while drunk and eliciting an "unofficial fine" are illicit.

[Lacessit]

On 12/28/2019 at 1:03 PM, EricTh said:

Why are you or someone so afraid of the breath test which is easier and cheaper than the blood test.

 

Breath test is always accurate, I can smell the alcohol from a person's mouth. I can also smell nicotine from a smoker. The machine just give a more accurate reading.

The blood test cannot be manipulated. A breath test can.

Breath containing alcohol is in equilibrium with the alcohol in the blood. A few deep breaths and exhalations will decrease the reading by about 0.02. Moreover, the breath test result can be increased by either mouth alcohol ( e.g. mouthwash ) or any other volatile organic compound which reacts the same way with the detector ( e.g. vinegar in mayonnaise ).

The blood test is accurate because a gas chromatograph separates and quantifies the ethanol molecules present.

A breath test is NOT accurate, as explained.

[jany123]

On 12/28/2019 at 11:52 AM, djbarry said:

Would any1 recommend he seek legal advise as he had to go to court, pay a fine and get banned off the road?

No.

[Scott Tracy]

 With respect, your friend is an idiot.

 

13th Commandment. Don't get caught. 14th, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

Your friend, I trust, has been appropriately reprimanded by your good self?

[SiSePuede419]

I had a cop pull me over in my 1950s Austin Healey convertible "death trap" (no roll bar) driving home in California @ 1am, drinking 4 beers at a party. 

 

Over 8 hours time. 

 

BTW, I was drinking water like a fish the last 3 hours.

 

Blew under the limit.

 

Smartass cop told me that he could still take me into the police station, because maybe I just chugged some alcohol and wasn't over the limit YET. 

 

Eventually let me go.

 

Dude. ????

Edited December 29, 2019 by SiSePuede419

[Destiny1990]

Was waiting traffic lights with 8 other cars at 02:00 am 2 persons knock my window but only mine window while i was not first car in the line.

He waves some stick infront my face i just looking at him confused finally i get the impression i need to blow in it..

[MadMuhammad]

On 12/28/2019 at 12:00 PM, DannyCarlton said:

Won't be banned unfortunately. Just pay the fine. Next time try roadside negotiations. 20k baht max, 10k baht for a good negotiator.

5K the last 2 times I’ve been harassed. They started @ 20K both times. 
No breath test but I had had 1 beer and they smelt it on my breath. I paid the cash because I couldn’t be arsed going to the police station