Happy New Year....immigration swoop on 83 year old Brit on 4,929 day overstay

[Mitkof Island]

Finally after five years they dragged off a German criminal in my town. It was obvious the first time i saw him with his bar girl the guy was a criminal. Now they just need to drag off all his so called foreign friends. She like most had him build her a restaurant. Once she cleaned out dodgy's bank account she tossed him out. Typical alcoholic loser. Happy not to have his ugly scowling mug in my town any longer.

[Trujillo]

I said, "For all you know, he was involved in any number of illegal activities,..."

 

That's not slander, that's called speculation, but if you would like to sue me on his behalf, please, by all means give it your best shot. 

 

And I think you are missing the point again. He IS a criminal. He broke the law. And moreover, in a flagrant fashion. Maybe your a US Democratic socialist who wants all borders to be open, but that doesn't apply here. Border security is a real thing. He might be a pure as the driven snow, for all we know (go on, sue me for that too), but he has in fact broken the law. That's the definition of a criminal, last time I looked. 

[gaikhao]

4 hours ago, sniggie said:

The guy was clearly in the wrong but, at 83, should be treated with respect and dignity as due process takes place. But not here! Splashed across the media and detained in who knows what sort of conditions before his removal from the Kingdom. No shame.

Most people should be treated with respect and dignity. The man's age doesn't make him worthy of anything except having  lived long. People who were jerks at age 40  are usually jerks when they are 80.

 

 

4 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Serious criminal offence haha, 

Attack somebody with an axe or a sword, 500 baht and back into society to cause more mayhem.

How can you even talk about the veracity of the law in a junta run banana republic like this

You know nothing about this guy. What if he he has a sordid past? If he was a child molester and living next door to you, would you be as easy going?

 

4 hours ago, lwn320 said:

Why is it that, police in Thailand always seem to find the oldest and most vulnerable of expats. I doubt wether they would arrest a strapping 6 foot overstayer or probably when he first overstayed he was a strapping 6 footer and they waited till he was old enough for the police to handle. 

 

There are 12 immigration detention facilities in thailand filled with thousands of strapping, robust young males.

 

3 hours ago, cheshiremusicman said:

Has anyone stopped to think that the 83 year old man might have been suffering from Alzheimer's for years?

Maybe, but Azheimers does not manifest itself like this. He would not have been able to survive on his own. More likely he was a scammer who  ran out of luck.

[Neeranam]

10 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I don't know how old you are, but it's a fact the older you are the more difficult it is to learn a language, especially Thai. I've been here 10 years and will admit that my Thai is almost non-existent.

I am 54 and continue to learn Thai, despite having a busy life, working 7 days a week, being a taxi driver for my kids, etc.

Even at my age, it is possible to learn Thai.

Granted, it is easier when young. 

 

If you are retired, it's not much of your time to put , say 2 hours a day into study.

Even 1 hour a day! 

I know a guy who went to a school in Bangkok, aged 64, and was pretty fluent in 6 months, learning 5 days a week.

 

IME, those who don't learn don't want to(or their wives don't, another topic), it's not a case of not being able to. 

 

It continually amazes me how long term expat don't want the freedom that being literate brings.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Neeranam

[giddyup]

14 minutes ago, rech said:

so sad for him, which him the best.

Finally, someone with some compassion.

[giddyup]

6 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

I said, "For all you know, he was involved in any number of illegal activities,..."

 

That's not slander, that's called speculation, but if you would like to sue me on his behalf, please, by all means give it your best shot. 

 

And I think you are missing the point again. He IS a criminal. He broke the law. And moreover, in a flagrant fashion. Maybe your a US Democratic socialist who wants all borders to be open, but that doesn't apply here. Border security is a real thing. He might be a pure as the driven snow, for all we know (go on, sue me for that too), but he has in fact broken the law. That's the definition of a criminal, last time I looked. 

Get of your high "holier than thou" horse for goodness sake. The guy probably found himself trapped here for whatever reason, more than likely his Brit pension decreased over the years to the point where he couldn't meet the financial criteria. The idea of returning home to possibly nothing and broke in the bargain maybe left him with no choice. Immigration would have no option but to deport him, but that doesn't prevent me, unlike you, for having some compassion for the man.

[giddyup]

12 minutes ago, gaikhao said:

Most people should be treated with respect and dignity. The man's age doesn't make him worthy of anything except having  lived long. People who were jerks at age 40  are usually jerks when they are 80.

 

 

You know nothing about this guy. What if he he has a sordid past? If he was a child molester and living next door to you, would you be as easy going?

 

 

There are 12 immigration detention facilities in thailand filled with thousands of strapping, robust young males.

 

Maybe, but Azheimers does not manifest itself like this. He would not have been able to survive on his own. More likely he was a scammer who  ran out of luck.

You really are a piece of work.

[Mister Fixit]

30 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"Yeah, at 83 he was probably rolling drunks in Walking Street."

 

Or indulging in underage sex, or growing ganja, or dealing ice, ... at the very least he was scamming the system. 

Oh please, give it a rest and grow up, Mr 'I'm The World's Policeman'.  

 

There's nothing worse than those people who are being sanctimonious and smug when others are down.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Mister Fixit

[giddyup]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am 54 and continue to learn Thai, despite having a busy life, working 7 days a week, being a taxi driver for my kids, etc.

Even at my age, it is possible to learn Thai.

Granted, it is easier when young. 

 

If you are retired, it's not much of your time to put , say 2 hours a day into study.

Even 1 hour a day! 

I know a guy who went to a school in Bangkok, aged 64, and was pretty fluent in 6 months, learning 5 days a week.

 

IME, those who don't learn don't want to(or their wives don't, another topic), it's not a case of not being able to. 

 

It continually amazes me how long term expat don't want the freedom that being literate brings.

Well, you're 23 years younger than me, and to be quite honest I neither have the incentive or the aptitude to be going to school and learning Thai. I'm only in this country as a guest, not a citizen.

[JHolmesJr]

The last time they swooped, it was on a bunch of geriatrics playing bridge.

[RJRS1301]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

Overstaying & illegal entry are criminal offences in Thailand, whether we like it or not. In fact Thailand ain't that different to many other countries in that regard. Do the same thing in Australia and you could end up on Christmas Island (there are/were Kiwi nationals there). I'm not picking on Oz, just that that's an example. 

Most of the Kiwis on Christmas Island were sentenced to more than 12 months jail, many for assault, drugs and domestic violence offences. Overstayers generally are held at Villawood and other onshore detention centre

[Trujillo]

Breaking the laws at any age has nothing to do with compassion. I am no more interested in his motivations that I would be if someone said, "I stole your money because I lost my job." I'm not interested in your sorry plight or your needs; justice is blind, remember? 

 Thousands of us do the right thing (most, in fact). If you are unable to do so, then you have lost your right to be the GUEST of Thailand. None of us have a right to be here. 

 

Why is adhering to the law such a difficult thing for some posters to understand? Following the law is not "sanctimonious" thinking. 

 

If someone stole your new car, would you say, "Oh, don't kick the guy down for being caught; he must have really needed a car. I feel so bad for him." I don't think so. 

[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Breaking the laws at any age has nothing to do with compassion. I am no more interested in his motivations that I would be if someone said, "I stole your money because I lost my job." I'm not interested in your sorry plight or your needs; justice is blind, remember? 

 Thousands of us do the right thing (most, in fact). If you are unable to do so, then you have lost your right to be the GUEST of Thailand. None of us have a right to be here. 

 

Why is adhering to the law such a difficult thing for some posters to understand? Following the law is not "sanctimonious" thinking. 

 

If someone stole your new car, would you say, "Oh, don't kick the guy down for being caught; he must have really needed a car. I feel so bad for him." I don't think so. 

You must be in a constant state of anguish to be living in Thailand and talk about "following the law". Which law is that exactly, the one for the rich or poor, or the one for do you know who I am?

Edited January 4, 2020 by giddyup

[RJRS1301]

8 minutes ago, giddyup said:

You must be in a constant state of anguish to be living in Thailand and talk about "following the law". Which law is that exactly, the one for the rich or poor, or the one for do you know who I am?

The one that requires ( like most countries) the correct visa, permission to stay, and a passport from your resident country . Your host country sets the rules, your respnsibilty is to adhere to that law, without doing so, you do not have the right to remain.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Breaking the laws at any age has nothing to do with compassion. I am no more interested in his motivations that I would be if someone said, "I stole your money because I lost my job." I'm not interested in your sorry plight or your needs; justice is blind, remember?  

 

I can't fault the Thai police for arresting him. He was apparently on long overstay, and that's what happens to anyone in Thailand found on long overstay. So hard to complain about that. (Although there's certainly an argument to be made that going after more dangerous criminals might be a better use of their time).

 

But hopefully, the Thai authorities have a shred of decency and compassion to NOT place an elderly 83-year-old man in the hell-hole that is the Bangkok IDC or any similar Thai detention facility. Were they to do that, odds are, the guy would never live to make it out of the country.

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

Yeah, at 83 he was probably rolling drunks in Walking Street. I would suggest the reason for his overstay was lack of funds, hardly what we'd expect of a master criminal.

Or quite possibly he's been sick and used up his funds on medical treatment. Does he suffer from dementia? The possible reasons for how he came to be 83 years old on overstay are endless, but there are always people who enjoy to kick people when they are down. By the sounds of it, a number of forum members would like to volunteer.

[Trujillo]

"...but there are always people who enjoy to kick people when they are down."

 

He's "down" because of his own doing. No one can plead ignorance of the law in this regard here as a foreigner. 

[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

The one that requires ( like most countries) the correct visa, permission to stay, and a passport from your resident country . Your host country sets the rules, your respnsibilty is to adhere to that law, without doing so, you do not have the right to remain.

 

Or the one where if you pay enough someone looks the other way, like paying an agent to obtain an extension for retirement even though you don't have the funds?

[Chazar]

7 hours ago, Old Croc said:

only the good die young

well thats  rubbish for a  start......... "old" guess  we  should  be letting immigration know about you????

[giddyup]

2 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"...but there are always people who enjoy to kick people when they are down."

 

He's "down" because of his own doing. No one can plead ignorance of the law in this regard here as a foreigner. 

I suppose you could say for every down and out and homeless living in the more affluent counties that it was their own doing that they found themselves where they are.

[giddyup]

29 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

 

If someone stole your new car, would you say, "Oh, don't kick the guy down for being caught; he must have really needed a car. I feel so bad for him." I don't think so. 

And who exactly is the victim here? Your analogy is rubbish.

[Chazar]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

It continually amazes me how long term expat don't want the freedom that being literate brings.

if  i  was  literate  id  probably  be  dead  now for  telling them how  krap their driving is, their service is and their  govt is, not to mention the "unmentionable" and then finally their  buddhism.......everything else is  just fine though

[Trujillo]

"And who exactly is the victim here? Your analogy is rubbish."

 

The State. 

 

So what exactly is your overarching position here? Although he broke the law, because he is of a certain age and might have some...what? mitigating circumstances in your eyes? he should be what? Let go? Felt sorry for? Or allowed to go free? Or get a special dispensation because of something...? 

 

Please clear the air. You don't seem to enjoy reading my sentiments that the law is the law. So enlighten me <snip>

[giddyup]

10 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"And who exactly is the victim here? Your analogy is rubbish."

 

The State. 

 

So what exactly is your overarching position here? Although he broke the law, because he is of a certain age and might have some...what? mitigating circumstances in your eyes? he should be what? Let go? Felt sorry for? Or allowed to go free? Or get a special dispensation because of something...? 

 

Please clear the air. You don't seem to enjoy reading my sentiments that the law is the law. So enlighten me (hopefully without the ad hominem you see to be unable to avoid). 

There is no such thing as "the law is the law" in Thailand. You'll be saying next that the law is applied equally. My opinions and feelings on the subject were made very clear in my first post in this thread. Look it up. Here, I'll save you the trouble #187.

Edited January 4, 2020 by giddyup

[metisdead]

Some troll posts and replies have been removed, the topic is not about the use of the Queen's English. 

[RJRS1301]

27 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Or the one where if you pay enough someone looks the other way, like paying an agent to obtain an extension for retirement even though you don't have the funds?

Well had he done none that, he would have possibly had permission to stay, he chose neither option of having funds, using an agent, this did occur last week, he has known for 13 years he had responsibilties and chose to ignore thoise responsibilites. 

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

Well had he done none that, he would have possibly had permission to stay, he chose neither option of having funds, using an agent, this did occur last week, he has known for 13 years he had responsibilties and chose to ignore thoise responsibilites. 

How we bob and weave instead of addressing the comment. I understand, you have painted yourself into a corner. My point was that there are those who use corrupt but sanctified means to remain in this country, which immigration overlooks because it puts money into somebody's pockets. What double standards you have.

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

How we bob and weave instead of addressing the comment. I understand, you have painted yourself into a corner. My point was that there are those who use corrupt but sanctified means to remain in this country, which immigration overlooks because it puts money into somebody's pockets. What double standards you have.

What part of illegal do you fail to understand. 

It is not illegal to use agents. many do it for various reasons. 

What he did is illegal, he is now in a situation of being deported, he has chosen this lack of action. There is no justification that you can deflect to.

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by RJRS1301

[Mister Fixit]

10 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"...but there are always people who enjoy to kick people when they are down."

 

He's "down" because of his own doing. No one can plead ignorance of the law in this regard here as a foreigner. 

Perhaps he is and your endless speculation is right, but there's still no need to revel in another person's misfortune, whether or not he was at fault.

Seriously, how do you think an 83 year old will cope back in the UK after so many years in Thailand?  He won't be eligible for healthcare, benefits or anything like that.

Unless he has helpful (and reasonably well off) family, he won't last long.

 

[Will27]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Most of the Kiwis on Christmas Island were sentenced to more than 12 months jail, many for assault, drugs and domestic violence offences. Overstayers generally are held at Villawood and other onshore detention centre

You've missed my entire quote out.