2020: Crackdown on tourists working without work permits - 50K fines and deportation awaits

[HeyHeyHey]

Please Thailand do not crack down too hard! PLEASE!

 

We all from America, Australia, and EU depend on your amazing 300 THB a day jobs!

 

PLEASE I'm begging you, don't take the jobs in Banana 3rd world country paying peanuts from us!

[Sonhia]

How about cracking down on Thai employers especially state run schools Thai Directors, Head teachers etc.. who openly break the law by placing many foreign employees at risk.

 

Too much extorion plus poor workers rights need to be addressed.

[Europeanguy]

On 1/13/2020 at 10:52 AM, SuwadeeS said:

Not wondering anymore, why the kids can not speak any basic English. Because they make it to difficult to get real English teacher their Visa and Work permit. But all the Thai teachers, who aren't able to speak English are permitted to teach English.

 

English is a keypoint of international conversation and therefore for business. So, it it be more supported.

 

Or..... the economz will even break down more.

I have 3 great Thai friends who are English teachers. I often struggle to understand their English. I certainly should not complain as my Thai is near zero and I am grateful they can communicate much more than me.

But to be an English teacher should be regulated and held to a higher standard.

I have seen English teaching classrooms. They mostly are all about grammar and rules, not conversations or written communications. It is easier for them to cope on a whiteboard when children can stay bewildered learning nothing very useful.

I repeat that I do not want to be hard on any Thai's English as I am ashamed that I cannot speak Thai myself.

I am a qualified English teacher as a foreign language (my mother tongue is French) but I cannot teach here in Thailand because of the type of visa I have. I am not sure I would do a good job any way – I help close friends informally but I need my Thai wife around to get anywhere.

[bbi1]

On 1/6/2020 at 1:52 PM, ezzra said:

You'd be surprised how many are, and in the thousands, either no WP or have a an 'agreement and arrangement' with the immigration, seen it in my own eyes...

Would be awesome if they fine and deport those fools employed illegally in Thailand on tourist visas. Then maybe IO's at the airport can leave the legit tourists on SETV and METV alone and we won't hear on this forum of them being denied entry at certain airports.

[KPG59]

On 1/6/2020 at 9:23 AM, bluesofa said:

Right.....expect a SWAT team there next week.

I'm guessing you've been keeping tabs if you know there's definitely so many.

Koh Phangan is CRAWLING with foreigners working without a proper visa or work permit. It's a chronic problem.

[bkkcanuck8]

On 1/6/2020 at 9:09 AM, shadowofacloud said:

As a happy digital professional, working remotely from TH for a few months every year*, I say: come get me!

 

It really would be a fun experience, something to write about in a few years, plus the maximum fine of 50k isn't a major issue (most likely 5-10k under the table would solve the problem anyway).

 

[*] on tourist visas, of course. If the indolent authorities came up with a proper visa+work permit scheme for digital professionals (say, 1k usd pa), they would already be a few thousand USD richer.

From reading the entire article, which I would recommend since it gives a good hint of what they are looking for.  They are looking for companies operating in Thailand hiring foreign workers without a work permit (i.e. those that it considers taking jobs from Thais).  So if you work for yourself and your customers are not Thai based operations and you do not employ anyone locally -- you are not really their target (though if someone reports you they would likely have to take a look at it - and likely find nothing). 

 

Earning money or not earning money is not a consideration on whether you require a work permit.  So you have to ask yourself - if you were not earning money from something would you be considered working in Thailand, if the answer is no - then you are likely safe.

[toofarnorth]

On 1/6/2020 at 9:11 AM, bluesofa said:

George Formby would have been deported within days.

Plus he would of needed a work permit playing a uke .

[ozz1]

I was wondering  what about the African hookers in Bangkok and pattaya how do they get work permits just asking for a friend

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, ozz1 said:

I was wondering  what about the African hookers in Bangkok and pattaya how do they get work permits just asking for a friend

they would be working without a visa , quite possibly on overstay as well

[Kenny202]

2 minutes ago, ozz1 said:

I was wondering  what about the African hookers in Bangkok and pattaya how do they get work permits just asking for a friend

Africans and Russians, so conspicuous and obvious, particularly in Bkk where the police seem to be lurking around every corner waiting for someone to throw a cigarette butt on the ground (2000 baht fine). Visa / work permit aside, how do they get in the country?

[tjo o tjim]

1 hour ago, KPG59 said:

Koh Phangan is CRAWLING with foreigners working without a proper visa or work permit. It's a chronic problem.

Same in Koh Tao; the bottom line (at least in Koh Tao) is that there aren’t actually any Thai people that want to work there.  Almost everyone doing any work is either Burmese or Farang.  It has been exactly the same for 20 years plus, and is unlikely to change any time soon.  Most of the Burmese are legal now, but much lower percentage of Farang.

 

There are two ways to bring it into compliance: change the laws, or shut down the islands altogether. 

[Yadon Toploy]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

Africans and Russians, so conspicuous and obvious, particularly in Bkk where the police seem to be lurking around every corner waiting for someone to throw a cigarette butt on the ground (2000 baht fine). Visa / work permit aside, how do they get in the country?

Hello and welcome to Thailand. 

 

What happens is, these foreign criminals pay the police for protection, who act as a sort of organised criminal gang and are often involved in the trafficking of these people. 

 

The places in Bangkok that these Russians and Africans congregate and operate in are under the jurisdiction of the two most corrupt stations in Bangkok.

 

That's why you never see them actually arresting them, but they happily shake down foreigners with impromptu traffic stops, stop and searches etc. 

[ParkerN]

On 1/6/2020 at 9:06 AM, Beggar said:

There are many. Some don't get paid and think this is no problem then. But it is not important if you get money or not. It is important that you do something that could be classified as work. 

Not sure what the current definition is but a few years ago it was quite close to the definition of 'work' in Physics - i.e. the expending of energy. About that time there ws a story (there's always a story and it never matters) of a guy who sat in a chair at his wife's business office and answered the phone while she was in the toilet. Busted.

 

Same as everything else in Thailand, the definition of 'work' is whatever the copper wants it to be. Meanwhile, when I was working at an international school some years ago, the head of the school would get 1 day's notice from the police, of a forthcoming police sweep (I was there for 3 years and I never saw one at the prominent school I was working at - quite legally of course). Anyone without a WP just stayed at home for the day (and still got paid as usual, they were just told to stay at home for the day).

 

The school paid the 'fee' to the police in order to get the required warning. Only a story of course... the Thai police would never to anything which was dishonest... definitely.

 

[ParkerN]

"Crackdown on tourists working without work permits - 50K fines and deportation awaits"

 

Really, it lways used to be 50k fine or 30k back-hander... progress of a sort I suppose...

[Isaanbiker]

On 1/12/2020 at 1:24 PM, DrTuner said:

Hell no, I ain't getting into the hoi polloi boat, I paid good cash for my elite thingydoo and my <deleted> is golden. 

 

Just because somebody is non-Thai does not make them blood brothers. I for one have very little in common with Indians, Chinese or even the Russians. 

But you understood the boat example, right? Isn't it strange when people from the same country are jealous of others who do better? 

 

Even the Filipinos help each other ( if they can). But between white foreigners is so much hate, that's unbelievable. 

   

[bkkcanuck8]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:30 PM, shadowofacloud said:

My comment was a little bit tongue in cheek, probably even a bit provocative. ????

Lazy Monday, sorry.

 

I don't believe they have the technological means to identify digital professionals (be it nomads with more ad-hoc jobs, or people working remotely on a full-time basis), I also don't believe they really care about this "demographic". So you are absolutely right.

 

As you've said, and it was mentioned multiple time in the threads on digital nomadism, they do not see this as work, as the influence on the local job market is extremely minor. Not many Thais could do my job, as the skill set required is hard to find even in some EU countries. If you add the language barrier (proficient English is an absolute must), then I really cannot see myself as any kind of competition for the locals. The illegal construction workers from Myanmar or Cambo (not that I have anything against them) are a much bigger problem in this context.

Usually the laws like this are very inclusive and pretty much include everything.  From that law they develop policies etc on who, what and how to identify the work that they see as being something that needs a work permit.  Remember remuneration is not a measure by itself to determine whether something as work since volunteer work needs work permits as well.  The policy and implementation tend to focus on work that a local could reasonably see as potential competition in the local labour market.  So if you are working for a local company - that would be a definite target.  If your work includes labour tasks done in country (i.e. import/export sales) that would also be targeted.  If your employment or contract is completely outside of Thailand and that company does not have local offices, and you are not doing something like shipping where you have to do physical work in Thailand, and you are not sub contracting or employing locals for work that is resold etc... then they see the link to it being something a local could reasonably be in competition with labourwise as too much of a stretch.  Now if for some reason someone logged a complaint against you even if they would not normally target you, they would likely have to investigate and take some sort of action.  They would see their job as protecting Thais and Thai interests.

[Kenny202]

I think you could hypothesise as much as you like. Same as many things here. It is ok to do this and that until it isn't. From what I hear if you do get nabbed theres very little in the way of recourse or "Im calling my lawyer". If you were lucky and in a lot of cases you might get a warning or more likely a "fine / tax". But once you properly fall into the system or end up back at the station you're gone.

 

I really think half the time when they are talking about foreigners working it is the government showing they are getting tough on jobs, as the economy is biting and factories are closing. And all the readers on Thai visa get their panties in a bunch and assume they mean us. I think you would find in the minds of most Thais when they are thinking about illegal workers they would be thinking Laos / Myanmar...not white foreigners so much. Still not a good idea to present yourself as an easy target though.

 

Just about every factory in Thailand would have a percentage of illegal workers. My Mrs used to be a QC controller in a Fish cannery and they had underage and illegals. On the rare times they got a visit they always knew and cleared them out.

 

The flip side is there are literally tens of thousands of Thais working illegally in Taiwan, Korea, Japan etc. I always wonder how they enter the country?  Maybe on a tourist visa?

Nearly every Thai family I know have some people overseas indefinitely and can't return to Thailand unless it's for good. Sadly unless the wife goes with the husband the husband usually returns penniless and has gambled away the money and five years work down the drain. My GF Aunty actually turned the tables. Her husband in Korea last 7 years been sending at least 30k home every month. Just about ready to come back think he can start a business etc, Mrs has a good nest egg put away. His Mrs has gambled the lot, as well as taking out loans against the mothers home and farms. All to the tune of about 5 million baht

 

[ParkerN]

20 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Usually the laws like this are very inclusive and pretty much include everything.  From that law they develop policies etc on who, what and how to identify the work that they see as being something that needs a work permit.  Remember remuneration is not a measure by itself to determine whether something as work since volunteer work needs work permits as well.  The policy and implementation tend to focus on work that a local could reasonably see as potential competition in the local labour market.  So if you are working for a local company - that would be a definite target.  If your work includes labour tasks done in country (i.e. import/export sales) that would also be targeted.  If your employment or contract is completely outside of Thailand and that company does not have local offices, and you are not doing something like shipping where you have to do physical work in Thailand, and you are not sub contracting or employing locals for work that is resold etc... then they see the link to it being something a local could reasonably be in competition with labourwise as too much of a stretch.  Now if for some reason someone logged a complaint against you even if they would not normally target you, they would likely have to investigate and take some sort of action.  They would see their job as protecting Thais and Thai interests.

 

Hmmm. Maybe, but I think you ascribe too much reasonableness (and too much reasoning) to the process.

 

The amartya in Thailand don't give a fig for Thais or Thai interests, beyond that which is also in their own interests. This musch is surely beyond doubt. One must look at what they do rather than what they say. Also, there is no consideration of what you are doing when deciding to prosecute or accept back-handers. If you are involved in work (however loosely defined), or if a Thai has blown the whistle on you (usually for venal reasons or revenge for some perceived slight), then the definition of 'work' becomes so subject to interpretationnas to lose all reasonable meaning. If you're dobbed in, you're gone unless the basis for being dobbed in is plainly laughable or the BIB believe there's a back-hander in the offing (job protection).

 

It always pays to err on the side of caution when ascribing reasonableness to Thai motivations for doing something. Or to have a thorough understanding of Thai culture and it's origins.

 

 

[CraigInBangkok]

On 1/6/2020 at 3:03 PM, Pedrogaz said:

People should;d obey the law here. If you wish to work apply for a work permit. It is simple and there is no excuse not to comply with the law. Anyone working on a tourist, retirement or marriage visa should be throw out of Thailand. I know of several doing it as I type this. They are bringing farangs into disrepute.

You are allowed to work on a marriage visa with a work permit. So maybe before you get on your high horse get your facts right.

[john davis]

Loads of India people are working on soi 4 Nana Bangkok selling watches and sunglasses bet these have no work permit

[Kenny202]

4 minutes ago, john davis said:

Loads of India people are working on soi 4 Nana Bangkok selling watches and sunglasses bet these have no work permit

I couldn't understand that either, Sukhumvit and Phuket loads of Indians have shops etc. Taxi driver told me most of them are 2nd and 3rd generation Thai born. Families came here way back when. They still look, dress, smell like Indians because they do not integrate and grow up in their own culture 

[Europeanguy]

On 2/15/2020 at 9:58 AM, bbi1 said:

Would be awesome if they fine and deport those fools employed illegally in Thailand on tourist visas. Then maybe IO's at the airport can leave the legit tourists on SETV and METV alone and we won't hear on this forum of them being denied entry at certain airports.

It would be great if people abstained from abbreviations like SETV, METV, COD and many many others. You have guessed already that I do not know any of them despite a good command of English. This a forum for mutual understanding, not for an elite that knows it all already. 

[ukrules]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:04 AM, KPG59 said:

Koh Phangan is CRAWLING with foreigners working without a proper visa or work permit. It's a chronic problem.

It's not a problem for me, why should I care?

[ParkerN]

On 2/16/2020 at 5:23 PM, Isaanbiker said:

But you understood the boat example, right? Isn't it strange when people from the same country are jealous of others who do better? 

 

Even the Filipinos help each other ( if they can). But between white foreigners is so much hate, that's unbelievable. 

   

Need to spend a little more time watching Thai TV. See how Thais treat each other, though I've been saying for some time that society in TL is breaking down, and conflict between Thais will continue to expand.

[LivinLOS]

28 minutes ago, Europeanguy said:

It would be great if people abstained from abbreviations like SETV, METV, COD and many many others. You have guessed already that I do not know any of them despite a good command of English. This a forum for mutual understanding, not for an elite that knows it all already. 

Pretty common shorthand on ThaiVisa forum.. 

Single Entry Tourist Visa
Multiple Entry Tourist Visa

COD you added.. 

[unheard]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Pretty common shorthand on ThaiVisa forum.. 

Single Entry Tourist Visa
Multiple Entry Tourist Visa

COD you added.. 

What is "CW"?

[unheard]

Also it would be so much more helpful for every noob around here to be able to reference a glossary of common terms and abbreviations arranged as a sticky at the top of this forum.

[unheard]

1 hour ago, ParkerN said:

Need to spend a little more time watching Thai TV. See how Thais treat each other, though I've been saying for some time that society in TL is breaking down, and conflict between Thais will continue to expand.

I know what you're saying but how is it any different from any society around the world?

Is there any society out there that is not "breaking down"?

[Europeanguy]

5 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Pretty common shorthand on ThaiVisa forum.. 

Single Entry Tourist Visa
Multiple Entry Tourist Visa

COD you added.. 

Thank you for enlightening me on these 2 abbreviations. I just did not know neither guessed.

I wish that I knew what COD stands for when it appeared on a post of interest to me. That is the whole point of my post.

Surely it is not that difficult to spell things out for the benefits of all of us. Perhaps the beer is getting warm while searching for all the letters on the keyboard ????

TFL ("Thank you for listening", not to be confused for TEFL "teaching English as a Foreign Language.

The clever ones here will enjoy that joke.

B x 

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Europeanguy said:

Thank you for enlightening me on these 2 abbreviations. I just did not know neither guessed.

I wish that I knew what COD stands for when it appeared on a post of interest to me. That is the whole point of my post.

Surely it is not that difficult to spell things out for the benefits of all of us. Perhaps the beer is getting warm while searching for all the letters on the keyboard ????

TFL ("Thank you for listening", not to be confused for TEFL "teaching English as a Foreign Language.

The clever ones here will enjoy that joke.

B x 

COD is usually Cash on Delivery