OA extension with Insurance - Still failed !

[britishjohn]

So I had a delightful day at Chaengwatthana. I went to extend my OA visa, having arranged Thai health insurance through Pacific Cross.

My current permission to stay expires 26 Jan and the insurance broker told me to start to new policy on the 27th. Apparently they have done quite a few like this without problem.

I arrived at 10.30am and was finally seen at 3pm. All my paperwork was in order, except she refused to extend my stay because the insurance policy is not currently active, even though it has been paid for and is on the database to commence on the 27th.

I called my broker and passed the phone to her. He pleaded with her to see sense, however she was having none of it.

Now he is going to back date the policy to start tomorrow and I will return on Friday for another attempt. This of course means that I will not get a full year extension.

The broker claims I just got unlucky and was dealing with a rogue officer...

 

 

 

[DrJack54]

OP, I would be so cranky if in your shoes today. Have a sangson & coke and good luck Friday.

Bit surprised this occured CW.

[tonray]

If you wanted to extend today why bring a policy not effective until the 27th ? If you go to buy a car would you drive it home when your insurance doesn't start on said car for another 10 days ?

[britishjohn]

2 minutes ago, tonray said:

If you wanted to extend today why bring a policy not effective until the 27th ? If you go to buy a car would you drive it home when your insurance doesn't start on said car for another 10 days ?

Are you being serious ?

[steve187]

6 minutes ago, tonray said:

If you wanted to extend today why bring a policy not effective until the 27th ? If you go to buy a car would you drive it home when your insurance doesn't start on said car for another 10 days ?

the policy runs from when the extensions starts, if it starts early there will still be extension left at the end of the policy

[flexomike]

7 minutes ago, tonray said:

If you wanted to extend today why bring a policy not effective until the 27th ? If you go to buy a car would you drive it home when your insurance doesn't start on said car for another 10 days ?

Because the new extension day would have started on the 27th, you don't loose any days on your extension by applying early, this is really screwed up, so now you will loose days on your extension unless you apply on the day it is due, only in Thailand

[Gweiloman]

1 minute ago, flexomike said:

Because the new extension day would have started on the 27th, you don't loose any days on your extension by applying early, this is really screwed up, so now you will loose days on your extension unless you apply on the day it is due, only in Thailand

Extrapolating this, OP will lose a few more days next year and the year after. Any mathematicians here able to work out when his extension will finally be only valid for a day before he has to extend again? Lol

[britishjohn]

13 minutes ago, steve187 said:

the policy runs from when the extensions starts, if it starts early there will still be extension left at the end of the policy

That's how it should work. But in my case she won't give me a full years extension. I'll get something like 11.5 months.

The only way round that would be to ask the broker to arrange a longer policy and pay the extra.

The whole thing is joke ! And yes I am very cranky....

[couchpotato]

3 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

That's how it should work. But in my case she won't give me a full years extension. I'll get something like 11.5 months.

The only way round that would be to ask the broker to arrange a longer policy and pay the extra.

The whole thing is joke ! And yes I am very cranky....

Well I am going look at this another way.

Basically the day you applied, you were not insured. You did not have a policy covering you for that day. So the immigration person was perfectly correct, although I do agree she should have been a bit more flexible.

Why you would chance a rejection to save/or gain a day is just stupidity..

Next year renew the policy in time.

 

[flexomike]

20 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Extrapolating this, OP will lose a few more days next year and the year after. Any mathematicians here able to work out when his extension will finally be only valid for a day before he has to extend again? Lol

About 24 years give or take a few, I am going to be in the same situation

[flexomike]

12 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

That's how it should work. But in my case she won't give me a full years extension. I'll get something like 11.5 months.

The only way round that would be to ask the broker to arrange a longer policy and pay the extra.

The whole thing is joke ! And yes I am very cranky....

I feel your pain, will be doing mine in April, guess I should take a trip to my Immigration office, Rayong and see how they are handling this, just doesn't make any sense, everything I have read they want it for the duration of your next extension, which means it should start they day after your current extension expires

 

[flexomike]

8 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Well I am going look at this another way.

Basically the day you applied, you were not insured. You did not have a policy covering you for that day. So the immigration person was perfectly correct, although I do agree she should have been a bit more flexible.

Why you would chance a rejection to save/or gain a day is just stupidity..

Next year renew the policy in time.

 

I disagree with you, the day you apply is irrelevant, do not need insurance on old extension, insurance starts on the day of new extension, you do not loose days on your permission to stay when you apply early, If his extension expires on the 

[britishjohn]

11 minutes ago, couchpotato said:

Well I am going look at this another way.

Basically the day you applied, you were not insured. You did not have a policy covering you for that day. So the immigration person was perfectly correct, although I do agree she should have been a bit more flexible.

Why you would chance a rejection to save/or gain a day is just stupidity..

Next year renew the policy in time.

 

Stupid huh !

Well you can look at it how you like, but apparently most immigration officers don't view it like that if my insurance broker is right. And what makes you say she is perfectly correct ? 

 

Insurance is not required for my current permission to stay. I have a re entry permit which expires 26th Jan.

 

So what you are saying is not logical at all.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, flexomike said:

Because the new extension day would have started on the 27th, you don't loose any days on your extension by applying early, this is really screwed up, so now you will loose days on your extension unless you apply on the day it is due, only in Thailand

Yes, basically you can kiss goodbye to any chance of submitting future retirement extension applications 30 days in advance of your latest permission to stay expiring if you're affected by the insurance requirement. This is because insurance companies generally only issue renewal notices 1 month before the current policy is due to expire. And it only takes foot-dragging on your insurance company's part in processing your policy renewal in conjunction with an extended holiday period to result in you either having to sail very close to the wind as regards the timing of your extension application, or, at worst, finding yourself in deep, deep doo-dah if the hallowed new insurance certificate which Immigration insist on doesn't show up in your mailbox by the time your current permission to stay expires.

[britishjohn]

The insurance broker told me they will cancel my policy and issue a new one commencing tomorrow afternoon, but advised me not to waste another day at CW tomorrow as they will probably say the policy doesn't start for another hour or two ! I will return on Friday.

 

But it really is getting quite ridiculous here...I fork out for an insurance policy which is virtually useless for health purposes, and is simply a device to obtain an extension and still they are not satisfied. Together with all the TM30 nonsense and other endless paperwork, I can't see myself sticking around for long. There are certainly way better visas elsewhere...

 

 

 

[pitrevie]

That is exactly what happened to me at CW. However my visa extension ran out the following day (I had already been there a week before as I recounted in a previous post and was told I needed medical cover) and as my soon to expire visa extension was granted under the old regulations I naturally assumed that the date I should make the insurance effective from was the date on which my new visa extension started which was the following day. The IO supervisor told me that I should return the following day even though she had confirmed that my insurance policy was valid and had now been registered on their system. Then just for good measure she told me to update my bank book again and photocopy it as that days update and photocopy were no longer valid. As I mentioned before I am using this year to wrap things up and will be departing Thailand this year I see no point in going through that again it isn't worth the hassle. I have always transferred in more than was ever required by their regulations and not only that but had on deposit in a Thai bank sufficient funds that gave me considerable more coverage that was required by their medical insurance requirements but that was dismissed, I was required to buy their expensive insurance or out. 

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, flexomike said:

Because the new extension day would have started on the 27th, you don't loose any days on your extension by applying early, this is really screwed up, so now you will loose days on your extension unless you apply on the day it is due, only in Thailand

sounds like a classic catch 22.  No way to optimally line up the insurance and extension dates.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

sounds like a classic catch 22.  No way to optimally line up the insurance and extension dates.

Maybe there is. Seems the problem is applying for an extension with no "current" coverage, at least in the mind's eye of the IO (assuming ...). So this year you apply say one week early on Jan 25 and your visa validity is thus reduced by one week. The next year you can apply on say Jan 18 with current insurance and a new policy running from Jan 25 to Jan 24. Thus the period of extension and extension date will no longer change.  Hopefully.

 

But surely this is an IO quirk. Problem is we don't know how many quirks they have or how fast the can manufacture them.

 

[HampiK]

7 hours ago, britishjohn said:

The insurance broker told me they will cancel my policy and issue a new one commencing tomorrow afternoon, but advised me not to waste another day at CW tomorrow as they will probably say the policy doesn't start for another hour or two ! I will return on Friday.

 

But it really is getting quite ridiculous here...I fork out for an insurance policy which is virtually useless for health purposes, and is simply a device to obtain an extension and still they are not satisfied. Together with all the TM30 nonsense and other endless paperwork, I can't see myself sticking around for long. There are certainly way better visas elsewhere...

But why you not change to Non-O instead of going thru all this Insurance Desaster?
Actually when I would be in that situation I would like to try to change to a NON-O instead, which is in my view much easier. But maybe I forget something or don't see something which also give a problem to this...

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

sounds like a classic catch 22.  No way to optimally line up the insurance and extension dates.

Indeed. And the consequences could potentially be even more serious than effectively having your extension period shortened each year if your insurance company were to prove unwilling to play ball and reset the policy clock each year from when you applied for your next extension instead of from when your latest permission to stay expired - in which case you could be faced with the situation which I set out in post #14.

[britishjohn]

3 hours ago, HampiK said:

But why you not change to Non-O instead of going thru all this Insurance Desaster?
Actually when I would be in that situation I would like to try to change to a NON-O instead, which is in my view much easier. But maybe I forget something or don't see something which also give a problem to this...

This is something I would have preferred but reading through various threads here suggests requirements for a non 0 include a letter from your embassy stating you are retired. 

Well I have no idea what such a letter is and absolutely no confidence of getting one either. I don't even know what their definition of retired is and I don't receive any pension. This seemed like a  potential stumbling block to me and so I decided to just cough up for what is essentially a bogus insurance policy.

 

I have in fact applied for an MM2H visa, and if that's approved I'll get 10 years multiple entry with zero reporting !

 

[britishjohn]

The only bright spot is that apparently when I go back on Friday, I don't need to queue up and wait 4 hours, I can go directly back to the lovely lady who rejected me first time round.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, britishjohn said:

All my paperwork was in order, except she refused to extend my stay because the insurance policy is not currently active, even though it has been paid for and is on the database to commence on the 27th.

 

That sounds like complete BS to me on Immigration's part.

 

You already have a valid permission to stay thru the 26th. The only thing you're asking Immigration to do is from the 27th onward, and that's the period your insurance policy covers....

 

I can't see how that's anything but complete BS....

 

[david555]

18 hours ago, flexomike said:

About 24 years give or take a few, I am going to be in the same situation

You wont …, they would already brought a cargo load of new rules...probably worse 

[SEtonal]

2 hours ago, britishjohn said:

This is something I would have preferred but reading through various threads here suggests requirements for a non 0 include a letter from your embassy stating you are retired. 

That is a requirement at the Consulate in Savannakhet, not Immigration in Thailand.  Actually, Savannakhet requires proof of retirement - a letter from your embassy or a letter from your pension provider are examples.

[Sophon]

20 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Extrapolating this, OP will lose a few more days next year and the year after. Any mathematicians here able to work out when his extension will finally be only valid for a day before he has to extend again? Lol

Never. The extension will not get shorter and shorter, every future extension will just be a few days short of a full year.

[britishjohn]

39 minutes ago, SEtonal said:

That is a requirement at the Consulate in Savannakhet, not Immigration in Thailand.  Actually, Savannakhet requires proof of retirement - a letter from your embassy or a letter from your pension provider are examples.

This is the problem , there seem to be a myriad of rules that vary from place to place for reasons I couldn't even begin to figure out. So I didn't realize this retirement letter was only required at Savannakhet. Had I known that maybe I would have attempted the switch.

So out of interest, what if you don't have a pension, say you live on passive investment income. Would it be impossible to obtain such a letter ?

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, steve187 said:

the policy runs from when the extensions starts, if it starts early there will still be extension left at the end of the policy

Actually the extension runs from the day it is issued, so the IO perhaps has a point. 

I believe this as one can only have one valid Permission of Stay in your passport. 

 

Is it not the case that if one applies for an Extension a month before necessary and it is issued, a new Re-Entry Permit would be required for any travel from then on?

 

[SEtonal]

26 minutes ago, britishjohn said:

This is the problem , there seem to be a myriad of rules that vary from place to place for reasons I couldn't even begin to figure out. So I didn't realize this retirement letter was only required at Savannakhet. Had I known that maybe I would have attempted the switch.

So out of interest, what if you don't have a pension, say you live on passive investment income. Would it be impossible to obtain such a letter ?

The rules allow each Immigration Office, Consulate, and Embassy not on the eVisa system  to request any documentation from applicants that they want.  

I can only tell you what has been reported to have been accepted by Savannakhet for proof of retirement- Embassy letter or pension letter.  If your Embassy will let you fill out a blank affidavit stating that you are retired, mentioning the passive income, then you can see if Savannakhet will accept that but no guarantees.

[britishjohn]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Actually the extension runs from the day it is issued, so the IO perhaps has a point. 

I believe this as one can only have one valid Permission of Stay in your passport. 

 

Is it not the case that if one applies for an Extension a month before necessary and it is issued, a new Re-Entry Permit would be required for any travel from then on?

 

I was under the impression that extensions are tacked on top off your existing permission to stay so you don't lose anything by going early. I've never done an extension before so I don't know. Are you saying that if you go a month early, you will get a new extension of stay from that date, but it will be for 13 months ?