Is Vietnam the winner in Thailand's visa game?

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

I think you do have to have (or earn) more than $10K a year to live here

How many of the Cambodian or Burmese labourers in Thailand and earning or have $10k in a bank?

Why do you think the rules for white folk should be different?

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

You can't apply for a Vietnam business visa as easily as you can apply for a tourist visa. There are agents who can get you a business visa illegally (just as there are agents in Thailand who can get you visas illegally). If you don't mind breaking the law and don't care if you are caught and deported and banned from ever returning, you can try that. Otherwise, if you want a legitimate business visa, you need to set up a legitimate business.

I don't think Vietnam bans people, they just make them get a new VISA.

The people that get their business VISAs revoked, just get new ones from a different company.

Edited January 18, 2020 by BritManToo

[MadMuhammad]

I doubt very much the ‘significant’ number is anything close to that, other than justifying to the ones playing victim and leaving 

[MadMuhammad]

9 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Many people in all of our home countries don’t have the equivalent of $10k. By your logic they shouldn’t be living in their own country. So long as they’re not asking the Thai government for a handout (and good luck to anyone trying that) you shouldn’t be condemning them for not being financially secure.

This makes zero sense. Wow 

[MadMuhammad]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

... and no-one seems to mention Laos.  I have a 12-month, multiple entry business visa and work permit for online teaching, and a local ID card, all for $600 a year with no documents required and no savings in the bank and no reporting to immigration. 

 

Here in Luang Prabang, I can hop on a short direct flight to Siem Reap, Hanoi or Bangkok for the weekend.

 

No hassles from the police (I rarely see them in town), no rip-offs from the friendly locals, easy language if you know some Thai.  Last year I would get 8,200 Kip for my $1, now it is 8,800 kip, which is great for my 8% interest savings account at the local Lao-French bank.

 

If I want to rent a woman for the night, there's plenty of Chinese, Thai and Vietnamese girls available if you ask a taxi driver - no need to break the local law (no pre-marital sex with a Lao girl).

You forgot to mention most of the country is boring as bar <deleted>. Great place to live if you like to go to bed early 

[Fairynuff]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

... and no-one seems to mention Laos.  I have a 12-month, multiple entry business visa and work permit for online teaching, and a local ID card, all for $600 a year with no documents required and no savings in the bank and no reporting to immigration. 

 

Here in Luang Prabang, I can hop on a short direct flight to Siem Reap, Hanoi or Bangkok for the weekend.

 

No hassles from the police (I rarely see them in town), no rip-offs from the friendly locals, easy language if you know some Thai.  Last year I would get 8,200 Kip for my $1, now it is 8,800 kip, which is great for my 8% interest savings account at the local Lao-French bank.

 

If I want to rent a woman for the night, there's plenty of Chinese, Thai and Vietnamese girls available if you ask a taxi driver - no need to break the local law (no pre-marital sex with a Lao girl).

I was really enthusiastic about your post and then it went into renting women for the night and I thought here we go again, I should have known.

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, MadMuhammad said:

I doubt very much the ‘significant’ number is anything close to that, other than justifying to the ones playing victim and leaving 

You believe what suits your agenda but what utter rubbish to say that because people are leaving they’re playing victim. Your chosen nickname seems highly appropriate 

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, MadMuhammad said:

This makes zero sense. Wow 

To you of course, I’d expect that.

[mokwit]

Vietnam will get the people Thailand seemingly doesn't want and likely it [VN] doesn't want. I expect further tightening for that category from VN Cambo.

 

Not getting on any high horse here, but if you qualify for a retirement visa* (for now) Vietnam seems to offer little. Evey visa I used to stay here for 11 years between working and qualified for retirement visa by age has been closed off (including 1 yr Non O from home country that required I show 800k in Thailand) . I just got lucky I reached 50 before the big clampdown.

 

 

*allright allright, extension of stay based on retirement (but when I told the IO at the ticket counter that she looked blank until I said "retirement visa")

Edited January 18, 2020 by mokwit

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, mokwit said:

I expect further tightening for that category from VN Cambo.

Which would be odd as Cambodia made it very easy for foreigners over 50 years old to stay long term in 2017.

Wages in Cambodia/Vietnam are less than $100/week, most countries would like more foreign exchange and it would seem sensible to invite those with more income than that to stay. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by BritManToo

[spidermike007]

I have been there a few times, over the last 20 years, in both the north and the south. My biggest issue is the people. I just do not find them particularly friendly, especially if you are traveling with a Thai wife, who has a kind of "Pan Asian" look. They did not seem to like seeing me with a woman who could have been one of their own. In Thailand, they are either warm, or indifferent. In Vietnam I ran into alot of people who reminded me of wet fish. Cold and aloof. Not much fun to be around. And they definitely do not have the light hearted spirit, or humor of the Thais. I get it. They have been through alot. But, that is not my issue. 

 

Vietnam would be one of the last countries in the world I would want to live in, and frankly, I doubt if i will ever visit again.

[simon43]

2 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

You forgot to mention most of the country is boring as bar <deleted>. Great place to live if you like to go to bed early 

LoL - I suggest you look in your mirror.  Boring people think places are boring....

[Fairynuff]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I have been there a few times, over the last 20 years, in both the north and the south. My biggest issue is the people. I just do not find them particularly friendly, especially if you are traveling with a Thai wife, who has a kind of "Pan Asian" look. They did not seem to like seeing me with a woman who could have been one of their own. In Thailand, they are either warm, or indifferent. In Vietnam I ran into alot of people who reminded me of wet fish. Cold and aloof. Not much fun to be around. And they definitely do not have the light hearted spirit, or humor of the Thais. I get it. They have been through alot. But, that is not my issue. 

 

Vietnam would be one of the last countries in the world I would want to live in, and frankly, I doubt if i will ever visit again.

I’ve had very different experiences from you then. Over my many trips spanning many years I’ve met some absolutely fantastic people who’ve been warm and friendly. Obviously I’ve also come across some totally forgettable people too.

in Thailand I’ve met some incredible people too. But then there are people who have been truly horrible. 
We can make these observations about just about any place in the world. For me Thailand is still home whereas I doubt Vietnam will ever be

[simon43]

1 hour ago, Fairynuff said:

I was really enthusiastic about your post and then it went into renting women for the night and I thought here we go again, I should have known.

Actually, I mentioned that for those who are discrete with their bedtime activities.  The last time that I rented a woman in Laos was in 2013 - Nowadays I am too busy working and enjoying life to waste my kip on a rental... ????

 

[spidermike007]

8 minutes ago, Fairynuff said:

I’ve had very different experiences from you then. Over my many trips spanning many years I’ve met some absolutely fantastic people who’ve been warm and friendly. Obviously I’ve also come across some totally forgettable people too.

in Thailand I’ve met some incredible people too. But then there are people who have been truly horrible. 
We can make these observations about just about any place in the world. For me Thailand is still home whereas I doubt Vietnam will ever be

 

My experience is that I have met far more wonderful people here, than there, and on a daily basis, I find the Thai people to be infinitely more pleasant. I too plan to stay here for the long run, but i am ever hopeful that Thailand is somehow able to elect a competent and responsible government at some point, and oust the army for good. They are doing nothing for the nation. It is a less than zero administration. I could cite two dozen areas where they are failing. But, right now all one has to do is look at, and breathe this incredibly foul and noxious air, blanketing the nation. A dozen pro-active measures could be taken, as they are doing in China, if they cared one iota, and had the tiniest bit of competence. 

[BritManToo]

34 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

They did not seem to like seeing me with a woman who could have been one of their own.

I've been walking around with one of their own, sat with one of their own in the park, had one of their own in my room.

Apart from wanting the ladies ID book deposited at reception, nobody seemed to care.

[Fairynuff]

5 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

but i am ever hopeful that Thailand is somehow able to elect a competent and responsible government at some point, and oust the army for good

I admire your optimism on this! We all have our reasons for liking and disliking and clearly VN doesn’t work for you, whereas for me, as a holiday destination it does but with the emphasis on holiday!

China is to me what Vietnam is to you. I loved my first visit there long ago but my second a few years back was a “never again” moment.

[JimmyJ]

Very disappointed to see that Da Nang on Air Visual today is showing readings of:

123

102

122

 

About 90 minutes ago 2 of the readings were in the red.

 

Was planning to escape the bad air by going there but see that it's now almost as bad as CM.

[ThomasThBKK]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't think Vietnam bans people, they just make them get a new VISA.

The people that get their business VISAs revoked, just get new ones from a different company.

No they have a quite hardcore blacklist system where every random IO or cop can add you to it however he pleases. It usually takes a multiple thousand usd "offer" to remove yourself from this blacklist. The going rate seems to be 3000-5000 USD.

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=749041

Quote

I think it is a new thing going on in VN. I was here on a valid VEC. Was at the Saigon airport o  a trip to Singapore and the immigration officer said I would not be able to re-enter Vietnam using the VEC. Contacted my lawyer and I too was on a blacklist and it would cost $4,000 to be removed. I paid the $4,000 and was removed. Seems just another way for them to get money. Before they could work the visa system in any immigration office. Seems that after they centralized the issuing of visa's and visa extension in Hanoi and took out the middle man they went to this scheme.

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=735107

Quote

I went to renew my visa From a recommended visa agent and she was the one who told me I was on a black list, but couldn’t give me an exact reason why, I have never done anything illegal maybe I was find for being issues a dodgy business visa about 4 months ago and paid a fine for that. But I have got another 3 month visa since that time.

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=841309

Quote

I was put on the black list because I was suspected of being an anti-government video-blogger or that I  collecting information on Vietnam for the USA, and I was blacklisted until May 2020 (2 years). I was informed also that I could get removed for $3000.
 

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=827419

Quote

I am from Western Europe, working in Hong Kong and I applied for a 3-month Vietnam business visa via an agency.

I got an email from the agent telling me that I was denied, as the immigration told them "I have violated the laws of Vietnam".

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=845471

Quote

The consensus, and personal experience being - agents/immigration and any passers-by are generally asking anything between $3000 and $5000 to get clear of this 'blacklist'.

At some point, in seeking a work permit, a potential employer told me my Blacklist status expires in June 2019.

....

Complicated. But had wrong sort of DN visa previously.
But told blacklist lifted on June 15th 2019

 

https://www.expat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=877158

Quote

They were all thinking I was on a blacklist of the immigration department. And they claimed that they confirmed their guess at the immigration by some certain ways, and they could help me to get off the list, but of course, at some price of paying some amount of money varying from 1,800~6,000 USD. And it was implied that there would be no receipt, as it could be considered as some kind of bribe.

 

reasons to get blacklisted are:

 

- pissing of a random vietnamese guy

- whatever crime police has to get involved, which can be everything

- using a visa agent that does business visas, as those are all registered on fake companies

- overstay

- too many visa

- being suspicious 

- not paying taxes, this actually sets u on the travel blacklist and you can no longer leave vietnam*, it's a different kind of blacklist. Can happen very fast on a business visa, as real business visa users normally have to pay taxes. 

 

*This get's stricter now: https://tuoitrenews.vn/news/business/20190613/foreigners-failing-to-pay-tax-will-be-banned-from-exiting-vietnam-new-law/50310.html

 

Quote

Foreigners, Vietnamese people leaving Vietnam for settlement in another country, overseas Vietnamese, and those subject to forceful taxation are required to fulfill their taxpaying duties before they are permitted to exit Vietnam, according to the bill submitted to the National Assembly for approval.   

 

ALL of your worldwide income is taxeable in vietnam, it is NOT A TERRITORIAL tax system like Thailand. Keep that in mind before you say, it won't affect you. 

[mokwit]

But I was reading on this board that VN was paradise with none of the visa hassles................

Edited January 18, 2020 by mokwit

[MadMuhammad]

2 hours ago, simon43 said:

LoL - I suggest you look in your mirror.  Boring people think places are boring....

I resemble that insult!

[simon43]

57 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

I resemble that insult!

To be fair, if you're not into nature (trekking, river-rafting, bird-watching, temple-visits etc), most of the country will probably be boring, since it hasn't yet been spoilt (too much) by roads and cities - there's still huge areas of dense forest, jungle, clean rivers etc.

 

Here in Luang Prabang, there are hundreds of decent restaurants, especially Lao and French cuisine.

 

I spend my spare time lazing at Utopia Bar with a cold Beer Lao.

 

LP suits me because of the ease of a long-term visa, the low cost of living, the lack of need for a car or motorbike (I live in the old town and only need a cheap tuk-tuk to visit the waterfalls etc).  I can legally teach online, easily and safely jog/exercise around the quiet peninsula streets, and legally do my hobby (ham radio).  It keeps me satisfied ????

Edited January 18, 2020 by simon43

[talfarlow]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I have been there a few times, over the last 20 years, in both the north and the south. My biggest issue is the people. I just do not find them particularly friendly, especially if you are traveling with a Thai wife, who has a kind of "Pan Asian" look. They did not seem to like seeing me with a woman who could have been one of their own. In Thailand, they are either warm, or indifferent. In Vietnam I ran into alot of people who reminded me of wet fish. Cold and aloof. Not much fun to be around. And they definitely do not have the light hearted spirit, or humor of the Thais. I get it. They have been through alot. But, that is not my issue. 

 

Vietnam would be one of the last countries in the world I would want to live in, and frankly, I doubt if i will ever visit again.

I spent some time in Thailand but have lived in Vietnam for over 5 years. In general, Vietnamese have about a meters worth of interest around them. This applies to how they drive, stand in line, butt in line, yell when their are others around, look at foreigners and more. It is fair to say that Vietnamese are more clan based than any place I've seen. You'll see quite a few offices are staffed by cousins, wives, in-laws etc..it's an insular city in many ways. No one will mention it but that's what's going on.

 

Most of the people in the alley near where I live are either related or connected in some way. Mostly they just think about their immediate family and maybe the clan in the alley. Despite the neon signs above, I think HCM remains a fairly "non-international" city despite 13 million + people in SE Asia.

The tourist scene here is off and running but the infrastructure is a poor comparison to BKK. No metroline. One of the densest cities around with no city planning. The last statistic I saw on Vietnam was that it had very low return rates for tourists.

[MadMuhammad]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

To be fair, if you're not into nature (trekking, river-rafting, bird-watching, temple-visits etc), most of the country will probably be boring, since it hasn't yet been spoilt (too much) by roads and cities - there's still huge areas of dense forest, jungle, clean rivers etc.

 

Here in Luang Prabang, there are hundreds of decent restaurants, especially Lao and French cuisine.

 

I spend my spare time lazing at Utopia Bar with a cold Beer Lao.

 

LP suits me because of the ease of a long-term visa, the low cost of living, the lack of need for a car or motorbike (I live in the old town and only need a cheap tuk-tuk to visit the waterfalls etc).  I can legally teach online, easily and safely jog/exercise around the quiet peninsula streets, and legally do my hobby (ham radio).  It keeps me satisfied ????

I’ve travelled far and wide but I’m still reasonably young and I’m still into fast bikes and cars, as such I require the infrastructure and access to pursue my hobbies. 
I haven’t ventured as far as LP but I’ve heard good things about it. Time to put it on the list and get a different point of view methinks 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

16 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

You can't apply for a Vietnam business visa as easily as you can apply for a tourist visa. There are agents who can get you a business visa illegally (just as there are agents in Thailand who can get you visas illegally). If you don't mind breaking the law and don't care if you are caught and deported and banned from ever returning, you can try that. Otherwise, if you want a legitimate business visa, you need to set up a legitimate business.

 

The Da Nang-Hoi An expat page Admin just reported in the last few days dozens of business visa holders were turned back, some deported and banned for varying lengths of time for not having a proper business. The figure used was more than 50. 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

The Da Nang-Hoi An expat page Admin just reported in the last few days dozens of business visa holders were turned back, some deported and banned for varying lengths of time for not having a proper business. The figure used was more than 50. 

Yeah I've been aware of that scheme of getting business visas by paying an actual business to act like you're really in business and I think that's what people that have been "retiring" there without tons of visa runs have been using. It didn't sound like that could last as the government was certainly aware what was happening. So Vietnam doesn't want people to live there basically to spend money (retirement)? Probably. Or it could be they just don't want people to scam their visas with fake business involvement and it really may be true an actual retirement status is in development?

 

[RoadWarrior371]

13 hours ago, mokwit said:

But I was reading on this board that VN was paradise with none of the visa hassles................

It is paradise.  Free short times and cheap big macs for anyone without the means to support themselves.

[Destiny1990]

12 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

I’ve travelled far and wide but I’m still reasonably young and I’m still into fast bikes and cars, as such I require the infrastructure and access to pursue my hobbies. 
I haven’t ventured as far as LP but I’ve heard good things about it. Time to put it on the list and get a different point of view methinks 

Go for Thailand since u into fast bikes  & racing than a 30 days free visa exempt will be sufficient!

[mike787]

Vietnam is not the only winner, but YES, one of the BEST options.  Absolutely.  Only 2 things suck bad about thailand:  Immigration and roads.  Vietnam food is way better, and NO immigration xenophobia/BS.

[MadMuhammad]

3 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Go for Thailand since u into fast bikes  & racing than a 30 days free visa exempt will be sufficient!

I’ve been living here 2 years and still haven’t died so I had to get married to over come the visa issue ????????‍♂️ 
The roads aren’t anywhere near as bad as they’re made out to be. If you travel around with your head up your ass you will be risking your life every time you venture out. It just takes a bit of extra care and attention to play safe in traffic