Teacher debt crisis: Three quarters owe 1.1 trillion baht - on average 3 million each

[Number 6]

20 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Considering most teachers are earning in the order of 25k/month.

And the monthly repayments on 3M (over 25 years) are about 23k/month

 

That's a bit of a disaster. 

Most teachers start at 12-15k and 1k per year. Smarter teachers, better schools get a premium. Then there's money to be made that comes indirectly under the table for HoDs. It's not all rice and water.

[Scott Tracy]

Maybe my calculation is wrong, but 3m over 25 years is 10,000 per month.

 

what's wrong with that?

 

[Thingamabob]

I cannot remember a time when Thai teachers were not horribly in debt.

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

Maybe my calculation is wrong, but 3m over 25 years is 10,000 per month.

what's wrong with that?

Your calculation is wrong.

[nasa123]

Knows 2 teachers who are married, they have borrowed a total of 6.5 million and had major problems.  Then all of a sudden all the debts were erased by whom?  On top of all that, they have started borrowing more money again ????.

[siamsev]

On 1/18/2020 at 5:49 PM, seajae said:

This shows just how bad/stupid teachers are in Thailand, they are not capable of rational thinking and as several thais think that you dont really have to repay loans if you dont want to.  Teachers are meant to be smart but not here, they keep borrowing because they have a govt job and think they will be taken care of, maybe all teachers need to be taught basic economics, those approving the loans are just as bad, in any other country they would look at what you earn and have to pay out each time they are paid instead of just saying yes but in reality it is the teachers fault for wanting to live above their means. Time for the govt to stop bailing them out and have creditors seize personal property so that they learn they cannot just keep borrowing, we have had a few teachers over the years try to get us to loan them money but we refuse point blank because we know they will never pay it back, the lenders need to do the same thing or wear the defaulted loans

or maybe pay them  a decent wage - as should the police - so that they dont feel that they have to borrow.

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, siamsev said:

or maybe pay them  a decent wage - as should the police - so that they dont feel that they have to borrow.

Doubt that changes anything, the ones with 40-60K incomes owe as much. Just a Mercedes instead of a Vios, brand clothes on credit instead of H&M etc etc.

Edited January 19, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[new2here]

2 hours ago, topt said:

Does this actually happen where you come from as it certainly never used to happen n the UK and I doubt that has changed much? 

I can only speak for the 3 districts I’m familiar with in the US, and the three that my cousins have worked for/in all had some type of mandatory “orientation” for new teachers (new meaning never a teacher before as opposed to a lateral transfer-in) where their pay/benefits, perks, contract, etc were all explained and basic fiscal management issues such as household budgeting etc, were taught — because most of the teachers on these groups were fresh university graduates and their first meaningful full-time employment.

[ubon farang]

Well the teachers are in debt because really they are not well paid as like the cops There fore that breeds corruption. But on the other hand the Generals in Thailand all 1300 of them are very well paid with no degree plus have the privledge of having there snouts in the trough

[Con Peoples Fund]

On 1/18/2020 at 5:50 PM, saengd said:

Cheap loans is one of the known perks of the job, same with many government type jobs, low pay, decent perks - teachers credit unions typically pay 6% interest on savings, another perk. 

Correct mate perks of the job. Got a nurse mate in ubon, new car new house new everything and her basic salary is not even 15k and when i ask her reply was "perk of the job" exactly as u said.

[ChipButty]

I used to work for a finance company many years ago n England, Dont lend money to teachers and police 

[alien365]

3 hours ago, justin case said:

seriously ?

 

I could earn big bucks with 6% interest on savings

 

I could almost live like most TV rich pensioners here

 

but no, my bank gives many times less, lol

 

anybody has great investment tips for 10 MIL? 

I was in a cooperative for five years with an interest rate between 4.5-6.5%, but somebody higher up eventually found out and I had to withdraw my money. Since they have also limited the amount you can put in to 5k per month, I can't even add it to my wife's monthly contribution. Back to a 1.6% interest rate with TMB for me ????

[Thian]

On 1/18/2020 at 8:10 PM, bangkokfrog said:

The scary thing for me is that these are the ones charged with teaching our children essential life skills.

Life skills? Is singing songs a life skill these days?

[Orton Rd]

Several Thai teachers in our family, daft as a brush the lot of them. One science teacher and now head, once I asked her what falls quicker a kilo of lead or a kilo of feathers, you can guess her answer. Never heard of Galileo or Issac Newton, so how can you expect these types to understand debt has to be paid back, they see it as a perk like free health care and a nice early retirement.

[Isaanbiker]

On 1/18/2020 at 6:16 PM, Enoon said:

 

It would be interesting to compare their debt statistics with those who earn similar amounts.

 

That might tell us if it was something "special" about teachers that causes them, even with 6% interest generating savings schemes, to get so heavily into debt.

 

My biased opinion is that they are exceptionally average, but believe themselves to be above average, blowing their earnings in order to display the material lifestyle of higher achievers, with higher salaries.

All provinces have their own banks for teachers, they look like a little palace to me.

 

These people believe that they come right after god, even if they know nothing about anything.

 

  Foreigners are not allowed to open a bank account at these banks, for obvious reasons.

 

 Foreign teachers are not more than clowns in this country of half -god teachers.

 

Some friends were asking me why we'd have so many soldiers at school when they saw photos of them in uniform.

 

Pretty funny, but they seem to take their role very serious.

 

In reality, it's never about a decent education for students, it's more a big showdown for them. 

 

When Thaksin was in power, they loved him, now they've gotta change their minds and love Pinocchio to be able to continue what they always did. 

 

All foreigners pay taxes and that's where they get their salaries from. 

 

Honestly speaking, I hate it when the students have to go down on their knees to talk to such a prestigious creature, often with a brain not bigger than a hazelnut.

 

Khun Kruu, always call us Farang, even when they know our names.

 

It seems to make them feel better about their incompetence in all aspects.

 

  That's no hearsay, I'm in this theater now for 15 years.

 

I often think that I've bought the wrong ticket for the wrong movie with less money than I had ten years ago.

 

  But the Thai teachers salary did go up. It's just a story for little kids that they make so little money.

 

Once a government employee and you're in the game.

 

Credits almost without interest, usually 0.5 to 0.8 %. 

 

 How much do we pay if we find a bank that gives us a loan? 

 

  

 

  

 

 

 

 

  

Edited January 19, 2020 by Isaanbiker
Teach the Thai teachers how to teach.

[thequietman]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Several Thai teachers in our family, daft as a brush the lot of them. One science teacher and now head, once I asked her what falls quicker a kilo of lead or a kilo of feathers, you can guess her answer. Never heard of Galileo or Issac Newton, so how can you expect these types to understand debt has to be paid back, they see it as a perk like free health care and a nice early retirement.

Everyday Physics explains why everywhere on Earth a kilogram (i.e. unit of mass) of lead is heavier (i.e. unit of weight or force on support, like a table) than a kilogram of feathers or wood. The reason is the well known fact that the specific weight of lead is much higher that that of feathers.

A kilogram of lead has a much smaller volume than a kilogram of feathers and hence kilogram of lead displaces less air. The buoyancy in air is equal to the weight of the displaced air. Air weighs to the order of a gram a liter, or a kilogram a cubic meter, hence the difference is small, but lead is less airborne than feathers, as one should expect, and hence on a scale the mass of a kilogram of lead is heavier than the mass of a kilogram of feathers.

 

I am assuming that the Thai teacher said feathers, and she would be right. ???? You, on the other hand probably said that they are the same, and so ........ well, you know what I am going to say.  ????

[dinsdale]

On 1/18/2020 at 7:45 PM, BritManToo said:

Considering most teachers are earning in the order of 25k/month.

And the monthly repayments on 3M (over 25 years) are about 23k/month

 

That's a bit of a disaster. 

You seem not to know how much Thai teachers actually earn. 

[Yadon Toploy]

12 hours ago, Isaanbiker said:

All provinces have their own banks for teachers, they look like a little palace to me.

 

These people believe that they come right after god, even if they know nothing about anything.

 

  Foreigners are not allowed to open a bank account at these banks, for obvious reasons.

 

 Foreign teachers are not more than clowns in this country of half -god teachers.

 

Some friends were asking me why we'd have so many soldiers at school when they saw photos of them in uniform.

 

Pretty funny, but they seem to take their role very serious.

 

In reality, it's never about a decent education for students, it's more a big showdown for them. 

 

When Thaksin was in power, they loved him, now they've gotta change their minds and love Pinocchio to be able to continue what they always did. 

 

All foreigners pay taxes and that's where they get their salaries from. 

 

Honestly speaking, I hate it when the students have to go down on their knees to talk to such a prestigious creature, often with a brain not bigger than a hazelnut.

 

Khun Kruu, always call us Farang, even when they know our names.

 

It seems to make them feel better about their incompetence in all aspects.

 

  That's no hearsay, I'm in this theater now for 15 years.

 

I often think that I've bought the wrong ticket for the wrong movie with less money than I had ten years ago.

 

  But the Thai teachers salary did go up. It's just a story for little kids that they make so little money.

 

Once a government employee and you're in the game.

 

Credits almost without interest, usually 0.5 to 0.8 %. 

 

 How much do we pay if we find a bank that gives us a loan? 

[Rimmer]

Off topic post dragging Mr Trump into the topic has been removed

[overherebc]

12 hours ago, thequietman said:

Everyday Physics explains why everywhere on Earth a kilogram (i.e. unit of mass) of lead is heavier (i.e. unit of weight or force on support, like a table) than a kilogram of feathers or wood. The reason is the well known fact that the specific weight of lead is much higher that that of feathers.

A kilogram of lead has a much smaller volume than a kilogram of feathers and hence kilogram of lead displaces less air. The buoyancy in air is equal to the weight of the displaced air. Air weighs to the order of a gram a liter, or a kilogram a cubic meter, hence the difference is small, but lead is less airborne than feathers, as one should expect, and hence on a scale the mass of a kilogram of lead is heavier than the mass of a kilogram of feathers.

 

I am assuming that the Thai teacher said feathers, and she would be right. ???? You, on the other hand probably said that they are the same, and so ........ well, you know what I am going to say.  ????

No mention of dropped in a vacuum or in the atmosphere?????

????????

Edited January 20, 2020 by overherebc

[happy chappie]

20 hours ago, justin case said:

seriously ?

 

I could earn big bucks with 6% interest on savings

 

I could almost live like most TV rich pensioners here

 

but no, my bank gives many times less, lol

 

anybody has great investment tips for 10 MIL? 

Yes mate change it up and get outa this place.try the canaries.

[monkfish]

Teachers get easy cheap loans from the Coop bank they'd be crazy not to take them and they don't even need to pay back.

[lujanit]

3 hours ago, overherebc said:

No mention of dropped in a vacuum or in the atmosphere?????

????????

Vacuum is the key to the statement however hardly anyone without a science background would understand.

[overherebc]

26 minutes ago, lujanit said:

Vacuum is the key to the statement however hardly anyone without a science background would understand.

Try asking  if you fired a 6lb cannonball straight out ( level ) from a 300 foot cliff top and dropped a 6lb cannonball off the cliff at the same time which one would hit the ground first?

[thequietman]

42 minutes ago, lujanit said:

Vacuum is the key to the statement however hardly anyone without a science background would understand.

Let's restrict it to natural occurrences on the Earth. ????

[garyk]

Kinda funny, a couple of days ago my ex girl friend in Thailand of 10 great years. Emailed me for a loan.  She said it was for her son.  4000 dollars. Of course with all the promises of payback. 

She is a Teacher and has a gambling problem big time. I was polite, but wouldn’t loan her my shoelaces haha.  

Teachers in debt is old news, it is  a joke in Thailand for years.

[Damrongsak]

I've seen other fairly recent articles that state household debt as somewhere around 12-13 trillion.  One was as high as 20, IIRC.  So take that 16% of debt for teachers with a bit of skepticism, as it may be only half that.  Still scary.

 

I thank my lucky stars that I have zero debt.  (Had a home mortgage but paid that off in about 15 years.)  My 3 years in Thailand 40+ years ago taught me to be cheap as hell.  As did my Dad who grew up in the Great Depression in the USA, 1930s. I realize that times are tough for younger folks as the years go on, but how much of that is people wanting more and more before that can earn and afford it? My Toyota pickup truck is 21 years old.  My wife is 63.  New tires and a facelift and we're good to go for a few years. Don't need to borrow money for that.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Damrongsak

[glennb6]

On 1/19/2020 at 3:16 PM, new2here said:

I’m not so sure I place a whole lot of “blame” on the financial institutions themselves...  so long as they properly disclosed the terms of their loans/products in advance, then I can’t really place a whole lot of blame on them.

 

yes, there is the idea of predatory lending, excessive interest rates and such.. but... from a base line idea, I hold that an adult is principally responsible for their own income/debt situations.

 

yes, cheap or easy credit does have risks ... I agree.. but in the end, cheap/easy credit is really only problematic for those who essentially mismanage it. 

 

snip

I used to think that if you signed your name on the bottom dotted line then you are fully responsible, but now I'm about half half at best.

 

Banks and financial institutions are educated about money and finance. They set up their business models to maximize their profit and extract as much in fees and interest as they can. They are the ones with the money to lend which is often fiat and created out of thin air (don't get me started on that), and in the case of many western institutions (I don't know if Thai institutions do this but suspect they can and do) simply aggregate and repackage their loans and sell them off on the market.

 

OK, it's their job to make money for themselves and their shareholders.

 

But similar to my and others posts, if you ask the creditor "how much was that motorcycle/car/other?" and the answer is xxx baht per month, not the actual price, the warning bell goes off. You then know they don't know the price, don't understand interest, compounding interest, prepayment penalties, late fees, and the rest. They are the uneducated consumer.

 

There's the rub. A college educated, well dressed sales person/representative motivated by their commission, oft times not responsible for 'stretching or omitting the truth', employed by an impressive corporation in a big shiny building meets Khun Avg Worker. Khun AW knows little to nothing about finance, is impressed by the well dressed impressive person, and reeeeallly want that new car/mcy/other because of a dozen reasons. The teaser advertised low monthly payment was appealing and with a very low or no down payment - SOSOSO!

 

Shark meet chum.

 

And, even if the 'representative' is just doing their job as instructed, there is the upper management who decided what the rules would be and know the fishy analogy.

 

Should fair play or fairness have anything to do with all this? Decent question. Was the game rigged in favor of the banks/financial institutions or the consumer? Is this just another form or flavor of corruption?

 

The big picture is what happens when Khun Worker is max'd on his ability to service his loans, or Ma gets sick and takes priority over a few months of truck payments. This happens and the consumer pulls back spending or falls behind on payments, or worst - borrows from an illegal loan shark.

 

The lenders know all this, they knew how all this works and decided to play shark anyways. If they get hit by defaults and their loans go bad, well is it only the consumer who is at fault? Who is the better educated party (with C level execs and owners with MBAs) and what did they expect would happen when they got greedy and played shark?

[glennb6]

On 1/19/2020 at 2:48 PM, SunsetT said:

And dont forget the  onslaught of Western Capitalist Consumer Culture deliberately designed through advertising to make a previously simple smiling mostly contented people discontented in wanting all the stuff we have but do not need just to keep up with the Jones's. They havent a hope in hell on the peanuts they earn! Not to mention that it is the antithesis of Buddhism and that it is destroying the environment Worldwide.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism, quite the opposite in fact. Nothing wrong with being motivated to work hard and earn well to attain the benefits. BUT, dropping a shark in a lake full of minnows is wrong. The owners and people who run things have far more education about how money works, how capitalism and the other isms work.

 

The real problem is when the big guys get extra greedy, when they start cheating, and when there are no solid consequences. Crony capitalism, and it goes the same for the socialist/communists too, is the problem.

 

As to the religious aspect, do you expect Thailand to be a nation of monks?

Re destroying the worldwide enviroment? You have to be joking (but I know you aren't).

[glennb6]

On 1/19/2020 at 4:20 PM, Scott Tracy said:

Maybe my calculation is wrong, but 3m over 25 years is 10,000 per month.

 

what's wrong with that?

 

uh... what's the average teacher mthly salary? average worker mthly salary? Is there something wrong with being in debt 40%+ of your income? Why do homes that cost 500k baht ten years ago now cost 2M baht - are they 400% better? Have wages increased at the same pace as costs?

 

There is quite a lot wrong with that!