Been gone awhile, considering coming back - need a little help

[B0nkers]

Things change so often, and have no idea anymore what the requirements would be to do what I'm considering. I previously spent a couple years in Thailand, split into 2 trips, while doing the same in the Philippines. 1yr here one year there.

 

When I was in Pattaya I had a medical emergency and would like to go back to see the same Dr after 2.5 years. Then follow up with a specialist at Bumrungrad. I'd like to see what the situation is now if I wanted to stay 2 years straight. Rent a condo on a 2 year lease and never worry about getting back into the country after a visa run etc. What are my options?

 

Also, what is the deal with heath insurance now (wish I had it when my esophagus ruptured last visit!). Where do I buy it, what does it cover, how much etc?

 

Do I need an exit ticket upon first arrival or any other time?

 

The first time around, I came with a 2x entry. I'm confused about the new options and prices etc. I tried searching the forum, but just get confused.

 

I work as a freelancer from my laptop, like piles of people do in Chiang Mai. That was my first trip actually. 6 months in Chiang Mai

 

Thanks!

 

[DrJack54]

You need a non O-A and that requires insurance. It's a 12 month multi entry visa.

Every entry you are given 12 month permission of stay. Exit and re-enter just prior to visa expire date and you obtain another 12 month. In other words. 2 years.

You need to be 50+.

Failing that nothing other than elite visa

[B0nkers]

Thanks. I'm 46 unfortunately.

 

Is it not possible to do border runs every 60 or 90 days? I forget how long. Education visa still a thing? Would I still need to do border runs with that?

[gk10002000]

2 year stay continuous does not leave you many solid options.  SETVs are good for 60 days then one 30 day extension you can get in country for a total of 90 days.  Reports seem to limit a person to only two of those SETVs in one year.  Add in a few 30 day visa exempts, again each of those could get a 30 day extension.  But I don't think you will be able to continue that for two years.  What country you from?  UK online SETV seems to have many tricks to use and is challenging to use.  If under 50, you might have a chance at a visa for medical reasons but for two years I doubt it.  If over 50, you can try the OA first in your country but then you must get thai insurance before you arrive, or you can come and go the get an O visa which at the moment would not require medical insurance and that O visa process has a few steps like arrive on an SETV, convert it, apply, etc.

[ThailandRyan]

Looks like if you have the money the Thai Elite Visa might be the best.  Gives you 5 years.  However, as I said, if you have the money.

[DrJack54]

Under 50, forget the 2 year plan. Consider 6+ months in Thai. Followed by 3 or so elsewhere Phil or maybe Vietnam. 

For first stay in Thailand obtain a metv. You will get 9 months out of that and could add another few months with border visa exempt entries.

The metv must be obtained in own country. For second stint in Thai you could obtain setv then extend and use some more visa exempt at border as you are allowed 2 per calendar year.

[B0nkers]

With the setv, do you still need to cross a border every 90 days?

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, B0nkers said:

Education visa still a thing?

It is still possible to get a non-ed visa and then extensions of stay.

If studying at a informal school such as a language one you would have to apply for 90 day extensions and then after a total stay of one year you would have go out for a new non-ed visa and start again.

[DrJack54]

30 minutes ago, B0nkers said:

With the setv, do you still need to cross a border every 90 days?

A setv gives you 60 day permission of stay. Before that permission of stay expires you can obtain 30 day extension at immigration office.Cost 1900baht.

So every setv will give you 90 day stay if extended. BTW any visa exempt entry (30 days) can be extended by 30 days. 

If you obtain a METV in own country you will be able to squeeze 9 months out of it.

It's now difficult to just keep getting back to back setv at nearby consulates outside of Thailand.

Ed visa does cost money and generally has minimum attendance requirements.

Also perhaps difficult to obtain back to back. Used to be easy and in fact some folk never went to classes.

 

[B0nkers]

Ok thanks about the visa types. Sounds like they're tightening things up and want only short time tourists or rich ????

 

What's the deal about health  insurance? I wouldn't even know where to get it, how much or what it would cover

[BritTim]

I think, realistically, the easiest way would be to live in the Philippines, and come sometimes to Thailand for medical treatment. Bumrungrad is expensive, so I assume the cost of travel and hotel for medical trips would not be a major impediment to such a plan. To be honest, while there might be ways of getting through two years on education and tourist visas, it would be tricky and stressful. The only easy way would be if you were willing to spring for a five year Thailand Elite Easy Access membership (500,000 baht).

[B0nkers]

I was thinking the same thing. I want to do this on a small budget this time though. I stayed in Jomtien last time and it's full of large resort style apartment blocks. New, clean. Amazing and SUPER cheap. I used to be in top floor 200sm penthouse with 12 foot ceilings, fully furnished 2 bdr with a pool table, marble floors and gourmet kitchen. The sunset off the full length deck mirrored off the view of the ocean. It was amazing. It was the same cost that you'd pay for a decent 1 bedroom where I live now.

 

After the emergency, I downgraded to place 1/3 the price with a wave pool and pirate ships. My deck door opened directly over the pool, where you could sit on your deck floor and soak your feet or even jump directly in. You can't find a place that cheap here, even if you split costs with a roommate. Again, brand new building. Small units, but you get what you pay for.

 

The Philippines does have a few newer buildings, but I've never seen a resort style block and those newer buildings are more expensive because there are fewer of them. You end up paying slightly more than you would in Thailand and receive a less comfortable place to stay.

 

I also found food to be better quality and variety in Thailand - and cheaper.

 

I like the locals from both places equally for different reasons.

 

That said, Thialand, because of the quality of life for your buck and much better healthcare is my ultimate preference. The Philippines offers English as a second language, so it does feel a bit easier to become friends with locals.. which is cool. Nice people.

 

So, my heart wants to go back to Thailand again but I'm just confused about how to do it and how much it's going to cost.

 

Please help me understand (Sorry I'm just lost as we all know things change and you get a different answer from every official you ask because it seems the new law messages are slow to spread or maybe not passed along at all)

 

Visa option #1

 

I found the metv for about $250CAD on an official Thai embassy website. So that gives me 9 months for $250 + 3800BHT = $411

- Now. Do I need to also cross a border for each stamp? From what I understand, enjoy 90 days, get you ext stamp, stay another 30 days. Then... do I need to just go back to immigration for a checkup or do I need to cross a border even though  I have 2 more visa stamps in my passport?

 

- If I go the metv route, what are the odds I could take a run to Laos or Cambodia and come back whatever they normally give? I forget if they give you 2 month visa or 30 days.

 

Visa option #2

 

If i remember correctly, you can find small local Thai language schools all over the place. Maybe not find them on the internet, but you may stumble on one while walking around. I remember prices in the $10-14,000THB range. I don't want to spend too much time actually sitting a class chair, but I am definitely interested in actually learning because it may make a huge difference of how life is for a foreigner if they speak the local language. Plus it's just kinda cool.

 

If I go that route, I will need to do border runs anyways, correct? The only difference would be that my reentry may be more likely to be approved than if I were a tourist doing border runs all the time. Right?

 

Health insurance?

 

If I remember there is a company called Bupa or something like that? Does anyone have experience with them and actually needed to use it? Has anyone ever hear of a foreigner being denied treatment because their insurance didn't cover the ailment or perhaps it wasn't enough coverage, or maybe it was only good for certain hospitals?

 

Has anything else changed that I should know about? (Pattaya and surrounding area)

 

if you've made it this far, thank for reading it all, haha. Or should I say.. 555

 

First trip to Thailand was meant to be a month visit, but it turned into 4 years bouncing around the region. This time I want to stay longer and plan it out.

 

Thanks

[scubascuba3]

Try for a METV from your home country, that can get you almost 9 months. Phone your nearest Thai consulate and see what they require which may be easier than the strict requirements

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, B0nkers said:

What's the deal about health  insurance? I wouldn't even know where to get it, how much or what it would cover

Providing you have the equivalent of 850.000 THB in your foreign bank-account, applying for a Non Imm OA - long-stay Visa in your home-country would be the easiest solution, as that Visa allows you to squeeze almost 2 years out of it (with minimal IO hassle).

Downside is that that Golden Visa since Oct 2019 now requires mandatory health-insurance.  If you have already a health-insurance policy in your home-country AND are able to convince your insurer to sign the Foreign Insurance Certificate stating that your policy meets the thai IO requirements (i.e. 400K in-patient and 40K out-patient coverage), you could apply for it.  Note: If you have a long-running policy with your insurer, ask them to fill in 2 years or more on the Certificate, as your permission to stay is limited to the HI policy validity date (and as you can squeeze 2 years out of the Visa, it would be handy to have the insurance validity also 2 years or up).

Note: If you are an Australian national, you can forget the above as the OZ thai embassy requires a THAI health-insurance policy, which are an expensive and basically worthless scam.

 

When not meeting the Non Imm OA Visa requirements, your next best option is applying for a Multi-Entry Tourist Visa, which with exits/entries timed right can provide you almost 9 months stay in Thailand.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, B0nkers said:

Visa option #1

 

I found the metv for about $250CAD on an official Thai embassy website. So that gives me 9 months for $250 + 3800BHT = $411

- Now. Do I need to also cross a border for each stamp? From what I understand, enjoy 90 days, get you ext stamp, stay another 30 days. Then... do I need to just go back to immigration for a checkup or do I need to cross a border even though  I have 2 more visa stamps in my passport?

 

- If I go the metv route, what are the odds I could take a run to Laos or Cambodia and come back whatever they normally give? I forget if they give you 2 month visa or 30 days.

Your understanding is not correct.

You can apply for an METV (Multiple-Entry Tourist Visa) in your home-country.

When you meet the requirements (they differ per country), you will get the METV with 6 month validity from date of issue.  However, you are only allowed in Thailand for periods of 60 days, after which you have to exit the country.  That can be achieved by doing a same-day border-run to a neighboring country (obviously you can also combine that with a visit to the country).  You can also apply for a 30-day extension of stay at a local IO (costs 1.900 THB), only 1 extension is allowed (and it is added to the last day of your permit to stay, so you do not need to wait till last day to apply).  With that extension you would have to exit Thailand after the 60+30 days.

You can squeeze almost 9 months out of the METV by exiting and then re-entering Thailand just before the METV's 6 month validity expires.  On re-entry you would get another 2 months permission to stay, and you can also extend that one with 30 days > so total of almost 9 months. 

Please note that if you exit Thailand after the 6 month METV validity has expired, that your remaining permission to stay will be void UNLESS you have bought a Re-Entry Permit before leaving (costs 1.000 THB for a single entry Re-Entry Permit, that can be bought at your local IO or at the departure hall of the main thai international airports).

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Zillod]

Thai elite visa 500,000 baht for 5 years is better value than it seems.  health insurance will cost more than half of that and there's no saying you could ever claim successfully.  When you consider it comes with a 5 year exemption of the next 5 immigration "Rule of the Year" conundrums.  2018 must have 800,000 in the bank.  2019 must have heath insurance.  2020 must be able to fly a dragon!  Elite looks quite good.

 

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, B0nkers said:

Visa option #2

 

 

If i remember correctly, you can find small local Thai language schools all over the place. Maybe not find them on the internet, but you may stumble on one while walking around. I remember prices in the $10-14,000THB range. I don't want to spend too much time actually sitting a class chair, but I am definitely interested in actually learning because it may make a huge difference of how life is for a foreigner if they speak the local language. Plus it's just kinda cool.

 

If I go that route, I will need to do border runs anyways, correct? The only difference would be that my reentry may be more likely to be approved than if I were a tourist doing border runs all the time. Right?

See response #8 from UbonJoe, and your assumption re higher chances of being approved when re-entering is correct.

[FarFlungFalang]

Would a visa for medical reasons be an option?

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, Zillod said:

Thai elite visa 500,000 baht for 5 years is better value than it seems.  health insurance will cost more than half of that and there's no saying you could ever claim successfully.  When you consider it comes with a 5 year exemption of the next 5 immigration "Rule of the Year" conundrums.  2018 must have 800,000 in the bank.  2019 must have heath insurance.  2020 must be able to fly a dragon!  Elite looks quite good.

 

Because of the price-tag (500K for 5 years) Elite is only an option when:

- you are not married to a thai national < otherwise apply for an ME or SE Non Imm O - marriage Visa >;

- you are under 50 years of age < otherwise apply for a Non Imm O - retirement Visa >;

- you have 'used up' all your TouristVisa and/or VisaExempt entries, and are likely to face IO-trouble when re-entering;

- 500K is only a fraction of your savings.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Peter Denis

[twix38]

This is easy. If coming here for health/hospital, then stay and do it in your own country. I have had numerous thai hospital visits to numerous Thai hospitals including bumrungrad where ent doc gave me pills for anxiety and on return to UK found I had barratts oesophagus.

 

Just one of many examples. I really don't rate Thai healthcare though it is hit and miss so sometimes good enough. It's a lottery with no accountability when it goes awry. Too often misdiagnosed with a try these and if not work come back and we try again attitude. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by twix38

[mike787]

Elite Visa is BEST and easiest option. 

[EricTh]

On 2/2/2020 at 10:20 AM, B0nkers said:

Thanks. I'm 46 unfortunately.

 

 

You can't work online as freelancer while on a long-term tourist visa. It is illegal even if 'many' do it in Thailand as you claim.

 

If it is a short-term tourist visa on one month, I don't think it's a problem but to work illegally on long-term border-run/visa-run is definitately illegal.

Edited February 3, 2020 by EricTh

[NoshowJones]

On 2/2/2020 at 10:32 AM, ThailandRyan said:

Looks like if you have the money the Thai Elite Visa might be the best.  Gives you 5 years.  However, as I said, if you have the money.

Even if I was a billionaire, I would not apply for an Elite Visa. 500.000 Baht down the drain, nothing back in return after 5 years.

[BritTim]

If you are set on Thailand, and unwilling to consider Thailand Elite, this is how you should proceed, recognising that, as time goes on, you face increasing hassle and risk,

• Forget about a Non Ed visa through a language school until tourist visas become impossible. Too many applications for Non Ed visas are now being refused, and (even when you have the visa) the extensions can be problematic.
• Definitely start with an METV from home country. Your initial entry through an airport is safe, and (as you realise) this will get you 8-9 months with extensions and border bounces by land. You must do a border bounce for a fresh 60-day stay every 60 days (or 90 days if you get the 30-day extension from the immigration office). You should do this by land as entering by air as a long stay tourist involves risk (though some airports might be OK).
• When your stay on the METV is exhausted, you will need a fresh tourist visa. Best would be a further METV from home country.
  • If you get an METV from home country, research which airports appear safe to enter with a visa. The Bangkok airports and Phuket airport should not be used to enter as a long stay tourist. There is a big risk that they will not accept your visa.
  • For a single entry tourist visa, you will need to carefully select the consulate to apply. Besides looking at the chances of a successful application, you must also ensure that you can enter by land (whether successful in your application or not). Currently (subject to change) suitable consulates where you may be successful in your application are Yangon, Kuala Lumpur, Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. Ensuring land entry can mean fully overland, or taking a flight to Vientiane and crossing to Nong Khai. There are a few land crossings to avoid (notably Poipet/Aranyaprathet).
• When your permission to stay on a tourist entry expires, talk with your doctor about whether a justification for a medical extension might be possible.
• When it is no longer possible to get tourist visas, you will need to fall back on Non Ed visas. Carefully verify whether and where students of your chosen school have succeeded in getting their visas. Further research how much hassle students have with extensions and how long they are able to extend.
• You have two (currently completely safe) visa exempt entries by land in a calendar year. Those are your insurance policy, and should only be used in an emergency (except possible right at the end of the year).

Everything is subject to change without notice. Good luck!

[Max69xl]

On 2/2/2020 at 10:23 AM, gk10002000 said:

2 year stay continuous does not leave you many solid options.  SETVs are good for 60 days then one 30 day extension you can get in country for a total of 90 days.  Reports seem to limit a person to only two of those SETVs in one year.  Add in a few 30 day visa exempts, again each of those could get a 30 day extension.  But I don't think you will be able to continue that for two years.  What country you from?  UK online SETV seems to have many tricks to use and is challenging to use.  If under 50, you might have a chance at a visa for medical reasons but for two years I doubt it.  If over 50, you can try the OA first in your country but then you must get thai insurance before you arrive, or you can come and go the get an O visa which at the moment would not require medical insurance and that O visa process has a few steps like arrive on an SETV, convert it, apply, etc.

He said he's 46 years old.

"Add in a few 30 day visa exempts"

Only 2 border runs by land per calendar year is allowed. 

[emptypockets]

57 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

He said he's 46 years old.

"Add in a few 30 day visa exempts"

Only 2 border runs by land per calendar year is allowed. 

Applies to visa exempt only.

[Peter Denis]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

If you are set on Thailand, and unwilling to consider Thailand Elite, this is how you should proceed, recognising that, as time goes on, you face increasing hassle and risk,

• Forget about a Non Ed visa through a language school until tourist visas become impossible. Too many applications for Non Ed visas are now being refused, and (even when you have the visa) the extensions can be problematic.
• Definitely start with an METV from home country. Your initial entry through an airport is safe, and (as you realise) this will get you 8-9 months with extensions and border bounces by land. You must do a border bounce for a fresh 60-day stay every 60 days (or 90 days if you get the 30-day extension from the immigration office). You should do this by land as entering by air as a long stay tourist involves risk (though some airports might be OK).
• When your stay on the METV is exhausted, you will need a fresh tourist visa. Best would be a further METV from home country.
  • If you get an METV from home country, research which airports appear safe to enter with a visa. The Bangkok airports and Phuket airport should not be used to enter as a long stay tourist. There is a big risk that they will not accept your visa.
  • For a single entry tourist visa, you will need to carefully select the consulate to apply. Besides looking at the chances of a successful application, you must also ensure that you can enter by land (whether successful in your application or not). Currently (subject to change) suitable consulates where you may be successful in your application are Yangon, Kuala Lumpur, Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City. Ensuring land entry can mean fully overland, or taking a flight to Vientiane and crossing to Nong Khai. There are a few land crossings to avoid (notably Poipet/Aranyaprathet).
• When your permission to stay on a tourist entry expires, talk with your doctor about whether a justification for a medical extension might be possible.
• When it is no longer possible to get tourist visas, you will need to fall back on Non Ed visas. Carefully verify whether and where students of your chosen school have succeeded in getting their visas. Further research how much hassle students have with extensions and how long they are able to extend.
• You have two (currently completely safe) visa exempt entries by land in a calendar year. Those are your insurance policy, and should only be used in an emergency (except possible right at the end of the year).

Everything is subject to change without notice. Good luck!

Hi BritTim,

Congrats! You composed the Ultimate Guide on how to stay long-term in Thailand when under 50, not married to a thai national and being budget-conscious (by avoiding the EliteVisa).

Obviously I saved your post for future reference.

Thanks again!

Edited February 3, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, emptypockets said:

Applies to visa exempt only.

The poster said setv + a few 30 days visa exempt. I said only 2 border crossings by land per calendar year are allowed. What part didn't you understand? 

 

[Max69xl]

51 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Hi BritTim,

Congrats! You composed the Ultimate Guide on how to stay long-term in Thailand when under 50, not married to a thai national and being budget-conscious (by avoiding the EliteVisa).

Obviously I saved your post for future reference.

Thanks again!

Where does the OP come from? It seems like he's not officially working. If he's from the US or Europe and applies for a METV, he needs proof of employment from his employer.

This is from the Thai Embassy in London: 

"A letter from the applicant's employer (in the UK and addressed to the Royal Thai Embassy).
If you are self-employed, your self-assessment and a company registration document are required."

 

From the Thai Consulate in LA:

"A letter proof of employment ( **we don’t accept pay stubs**)"

 

The requirement about employment is the same in almost every country in Europe. In Australia it's not required (for some strange reason).

The METV is not designed for a long term stay in Thailand, that's why the proof of employment exist.

If not working or maybe the employer refuses to issue the letter to the embassy, the METV obtained in a home country is not an option if you want to stay ~8 months in Thailand. 

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Where does the OP come from? It seems like he's not officially working. If he's from the US or Europe and applies for a METV, he needs proof of employment from his employer.

This is from the Thai Embassy in London: 

"A letter from the applicant's employer (in the UK and addressed to the Royal Thai Embassy).
If you are self-employed, your self-assessment and a company registration document are required."

 

From the Thai Consulate in LA:

"A letter proof of employment ( **we don’t accept pay stubs**)"

 

The requirement about employment is the same in almost every country in Europe. In Australia it's not required (for some strange reason).

The METV is not designed for a long term stay in Thailand, that's why the proof of employment exist.

If not working or maybe the employer refuses to issue the letter to the embassy, the METV obtained in a home country is not an option if you want to stay ~8 months in Thailand. 

That requirement has been well covered. 

The reason the job gig is not required in OZ is partly down to do with they ain't stupid. How many people are self employed.

Fortunately there are very easy ways around that requirement in most countries that list "job" and letter from employer.

Being an employee is only small part of population.