Getting real about costs

[sirineou]

13 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Sounds like the best indeed, you did very very well and been wise + smart to do so, I hope to achieve the same one day.

I am personally not in a rush, to be even better prepared for it, so we could still delay things for 4 years easily.

Unless making very big progress, I would not return to Thailand until the child is 18, so I guess we talk about a 10-15 year timeframe indeed.
Also, after such long time, I think we might not even want to go back anymore + are used to our lives in Netherlands. 

Time will tell what happens / happened.. Thanks for your reply!

Good plan!!

Make sure you maintain your network of friends in the Netherlands. 

Call  X friend as say "hey X how are you, what's new with you? I miss you"  a few months later " call again and and Say " Hey X how are you , miss you, Thailand is great, come and visit as"  then you can say "Hey X , great news we are coming back to the Netherlands, can't wait to see the old gang, By the way any leads on work" .

Networks are like  a garden you need to work them. 

[ChaiyaTH]

Guess it a bit foolish from myself to not also mention the 10K budget also covers some networking for business, many times.

[madmen]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I didn't live any better in the UK on 50kpounds/year (2001), than I do in Thailand on 40kbht/month (2020).

And the woman in my bed now is half the age (and half the weight) of the woman that was in my bed then.

60" TV in the living room, 55" TV in the bedroom, fast internet ....... I don't need to spend any more, and I certainly don't feel I'm living an inferior lifestyle.

 

Most guys forget what poop lives they were living back home, working all hours, trying to please their woman so she didn't divorce them, the cold, the rain, the grey skies, etc.

Your a grandpa and OP is 30 BIG difference. 

So you pulled fat chicks in the west, that's your problem 

 

You need better disclosure. You didn't mention you live in a rice paddy surrounded by mountains... Your rent would be 3k max

Edited February 10, 2020 by madmen

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Good plan!!

Make sure you maintain your network of friends in the Netherlands. 

Call  X friend as say "hey X how are you, what's new with you? I miss you"  a few months later " call again and and Say " Hey X how are you , miss you, Thailand is great, come and visit as"  then you can say "Hey X , great news we are coming back to the Netherlands, can't wait to see the old gang, By the way any leads on work" .

Networks are like  a garden you need to work them. 

Yeah that will be all right, I come from a small town so it is hard to not be detected once back. They all think it is insane already how long I managed to survive here. Guess I will get enough invitations and free beers just to tell all the crazy stories. A job won't be any issue too, there are shortages.

Also important to mention again in general, need to save up my entire pension myself if staying self employed + in Netherlands.
And I would not get any of the social welfare retirement (in fact, I lose 2% per year living abroad already).

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[BritManToo]

2 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Guess I will get enough invitations and free beers just to tell all the crazy stories.

Never tell anyone back home, what you got up to out here.

[ChaiyaTH]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Never tell anyone back home, what you got up to out here.

Why is that? What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? Not that secret anymore nowadays, almost 1 in 20 Dutch people travelled to Thailand once at least.

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Why is that? What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas? Not that secret anymore nowadays, almost 1 in 20 Dutch people travelled to Thailand once at least.

The blokes won't believe you.

The women will despise you.

Employers will be suspicious of you.

 

There's no advantage for you to tell anyone you've even been here.

Edited February 10, 2020 by BritManToo

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The guys won't believe you.

The girls will despise you.

Employers will be suspicious of you.

 

There's no advantage for you to tell anyone you've even been here.

Never had those issues with any of the people back home, Dutch people are quite sober and I think the difference in generation also helps a lot.
For employers, they would find out anyway but never would tell them more than necessary. 

I do notice that older western woman have a lot of bad feelings with a guy having been in Thailand though.
Just 7-8 years ago the word Thailand was still sketchy too, but shortly afterwards plane loads of Dutch travelled here (which now changed to Vietnam),
that really changed the black and white picture of Thailand only being for sex tourists.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[BobbyL]

I think schooling is the biggest factor. If I didn't get free international school education as part of my package then I definitely wouldn't stay here with children. Thai schools are not worth considering and real international schools are expensive. 

 

Might be worth considering moving back here in the future once school has been dealt with. 

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

I think schooling is the biggest factor. If I didn't get free international school education as part of my package then I definitely wouldn't stay here with children. Thai schools are not worth considering and real international schools are expensive. 

 

Might be worth considering moving back here in the future once school has been dealt with. 

It is the biggest factor indeed, it comes down to at least 100,000 euro until university starts.... Could pay another house of with that too.
Plus, can't bail out on it somewhere in between, would be horrible for the kid and losing his friends / face.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[RichardColeman]

I live with my wife and daughter 3 years old, we live in a Choc Chai estate in Pattaya. We live a fairly quiet life and that is reflected in our outgoings.

 

My expenses - roughly - are : 

Rental 2 bed end bloc house - 9,000 baht.

Water - 195 baht

Electric - 900 baht (use air con a little at night only to cool room for sleeping).

Gas - 350 baht a quarter - say 125 a month.

Visa cost - 1,100 (yeah, don't mention it).

Internet - 750 baht

Bins and pool costs - 320 baht

Food (including daughter milk, beer, nappies) - 19,000.

Taxis - 600 ish baht

Totals about 31,000 baht.

 

I usually send about 52,000 baht a month from UK to Thailand.

 

So we have about 20,000 to play with each month. We go into pattaya once a month and use only about 4,000 tops for the day.

 

So easily 15,000 spare.

 

I go back to the UK each 9 months, but budget that from what I have in the UK from a pension - reducing sent amount each month to 52,000.

 

My daughter is very intelligent but will go to the state school nearby - which is basically free.

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

[BobbyL]

Just now, ChaiyaTH said:

It is the biggest factor indeed, it comes down to at least 100,000 euro until university starts.... Could pay another house of with that too.

Absolutely. 

[VocalNeal]

What I think this thread does is put in perspective the 65,000 the government requires for retirement.

Sure can do it for less but....

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

What I think this thread does is put in perspective the 65,000 the government requires for retirement.

Sure can do it for less but....

Well the requirement that relates more would be that for marriage / supporting a child and requires 40,000 baht.
The problem once again is that they make it difficult or impossible to prove to their likening.
I can't prove my income either due to being in Business, outside of home country, not want 400K cashflow stuck too.

And if one would be single, they could easily retire on 40,000 baht a month which makes 65,000 very high.
The average pension in Netherlands is often around 50,000 baht, after taxes, they would not be able to get the 1 year extensions.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[ChaiyaTH]

9 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

I live with my wife and daughter 3 years old, we live in a Choc Chai estate in Pattaya. We live a fairly quiet life and that is reflected in our outgoings.

 

My expenses - roughly - are : 

Rental 2 bed end bloc house - 9,000 baht.

Water - 195 baht

Electric - 900 baht (use air con a little at night only to cool room for sleeping).

Gas - 350 baht a quarter - say 125 a month.

Visa cost - 1,100 (yeah, don't mention it).

Internet - 750 baht

Bins and pool costs - 320 baht

Food (including daughter milk, beer, nappies) - 19,000.

Taxis - 600 ish baht

Totals about 31,000 baht.

 

I usually send about 52,000 baht a month from UK to Thailand.

 

So we have about 20,000 to play with each month. We go into pattaya once a month and use only about 4,000 tops for the day.

 

So easily 15,000 spare.

 

I go back to the UK each 9 months, but budget that from what I have in the UK from a pension - reducing sent amount each month to 52,000.

 

My daughter is very intelligent but will go to the state school nearby - which is basically free.

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

 

I think we could easily do 40K a month too, but that would not include any additional costs, for example in this year alone my girlfriend need to do workshops to keep her license to work in the hospital as a therapist, those workshops are in Bangkok, will cost us 20K. This adds nearly 1700 a month in costs for 2020 already.

Then on top; paperwork for marriage, then the Dutch procedure for my son, then the passport: 25K more for 2020 in unexpected costs. Total 3,750 baht a month extra.
To imagine this are just some small things, it could easily be something more important. Or some unexpected funeral back home for me etc.

I would not accept state schools, only if no choice. I feel like being selfish to send him there, while having the choice to get AAA+ education.
Not saying I think International schools are great here, they are still crappy compared to Netherlands, but few options.

He would never get into a university in Netherlands too, making him earn less and be behind on things already. 
In 2 decades from now, the benefits half Thais have today, earning easily regardless, are most likely not around anymore either.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Thian]

70.000 baht a month isn't that much for a Dutchy...even my thai wife makes more, also you should..it's 2000 euro.

 

Houses in Holland are also very expensive right now, 1000 euro a month for rent is common now.

 

You still didn't mention what your job is, not that i care but maybe somebody here can help with increasing your income.

 

 

[puchooay]

1 hour ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Even we would be a typical Thai couple, paid off land and a little wooden house already, no International school and stuff like that,
I'd imagine they still need at least 30K baht a month.

I was wondering if you were trolling or not. Your figures change in different posts.

 

Then I read this and realised that you are.

 

300 baht a day is the minimum wage. That is what the majority of those in little wooden houses will be earning.

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, Thian said:

70.000 baht a month isn't that much for a Dutchy...even my thai wife makes more, also you should..it's 2000 euro.

 

Houses in Holland are also very expensive right now, 1000 euro a month for rent is common now.

 

You still didn't mention what your job is, not that i care but maybe somebody here can help with increasing your income.

 

 

Guess you are dreaming then, 70K after taxes isn't common in Netherlands anymore at all. That aside, my net income is 100K +
You are not considering that this has to be earned from Thailand either, huge difference. 

In terms of 1000 euro for rent, just a half truth. This in big cities and renting in the private sector.
The rent in many provinces and towns is still only around 600 euro, same on mortgage. 

If earning little, one would even get 300 euro rent discount on that 600-700 euro house. 

[gimo]

 Lived in a small / medium sized town in the North East with wife and son for 7 years ( son was 8 mths to 7 years in that period ) . Lived on 45,000 per month . The two big differences between your costs and mine are the international school and house rent . My son goes to a regular school and is in a 'special' class that costs 10,000 Baht a year and is limited to 30 kids . I don't think he'll be stupid as a consequence . I've made sure he's fluent in English . The 2 floor , 3 bedroom , 2 bathroom house costs 5,000 incl all utilities . Thai style bathroom downstairs , Farang style upstairs . It is a little bit older than average , but nothing like the old family one in the village . We also paid off a car at 3,500 per mnth .

[ChaiyaTH]

5 minutes ago, puchooay said:

I was wondering if you were trolling or not. Your figures change in different posts.

 

Then I read this and realised that you are.

 

300 baht a day is the minimum wage. That is what the majority of those in little wooden houses will be earning.

Yes, those same people will also skip vaccinations often, send them to government schools, leave them with grandparents who are from another world (too far behind),
many of them also use twice as much water for the baby milk, which makes it less good for the kid obviously. 

You could live very rural and survive, but you can not give a child what it really needs. They struggle.
I also understand those bar girls asking 15-20K a month more now, they often are single mothers, that amount is not high at all (not that this justify them to ask us).

 

Not to mention they will all be in a nightmare show when they get older, they have no pensions and the current generations are full of debt.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Isaanbiker]

I have a 1 year old son now and my girlfriend is taking care of him since birth, so she can not work (otherwise the child would be with her dinosaur parents in the sticks). 

 

A great way to say that you live in Kalasin. -????

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Yes, those same people will also skip vaccinations often,

Vaccinations are free in Thailand, no need to skip them.

Being an anti-vaxer, I tried to skip them but no go in Thailand, they just snatch the kid and inject them anyway.

I'm in Chiang Mai too.

Edited February 10, 2020 by BritManToo

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, Isaanbiker said:

I have a 1 year old son now and my girlfriend is taking care of him since birth, so she can not work (otherwise the child would be with her dinosaur parents in the sticks). 

 

A great way to say that you live in Kalasin. -????

Not sure how your comment makes any sense. I live in Chiang Mai and my wife is not from there either, she is from Bangkok (born and raised at least). 
Her parents (or mother) would need to stop working and go live in the land they own in Isaan, if we were to ditch him. 

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Vaccinations are free, no need to skip them.

Being an anti-vaxer, I tried to skip them but no go in Thailand, they just snatch the kid and inject them anyway.

They only get the basic government ones, not additional and valuable ones or International ones (as the child is half Thai in my case).
Anyway, you get the point, they are surviving and not being the wisest. Neither does the child get anything close to good or best.
Most do not even know their own parents well and see their grandparents as their parents. Not something I would opt-in for.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[CharlieH]

Bickering/off topic exchange removed.

[codebunny]

57 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The blokes won't believe you.

The women will despise you.

Employers will be suspicious of you.

 

There's no advantage for you to tell anyone you've even been here.

I found that when I worked in British workplaces, if I ever revealed anything that made my life sound even slightly good, not bragging, just if something came out, it would result in amazing jealousy and people would go out of their way to wreck your life. So now, I just pretend that my life is sh!tter than theirs. Tell people I live with my mum in a krap boring town in the north, and don't have any money, any house, no women, just make sure there's nothing anyone could be jealous of. I explain the flights to bangkok away on just going on holiday or something (I can't hide them, due to the nature of the job).

[codebunny]

I wonder if there are any surveys on how people manage to live here viably?

 

I don't think there are as many cushy expat jobs any more as there perhaps used to be in Asia.

 

My long-term strategy was always around working at sea in some way, and eventually making a business with a lean towards training and consulting, if I didn't manage to make a successful product.

 

It seems like most farang in SE Asia (outside Singapore) are retired, maybe some work offshore and some run businesses, maybe actual companies making something, or as a digital one-man-band, making or selling something. It doesn't seem like teaching is financially rewarding way to go, unless it's at an international school, and it's not a vocation for everyone.

[ChaiyaTH]

3 minutes ago, codebunny said:

I wonder if there are any surveys on how people manage to live here viably?

 

I don't think there are as many cushy expat jobs any more as there perhaps used to be in Asia.

 

My long-term strategy was always around working at sea in some way, and eventually making a business with a lean towards training and consulting, if I didn't manage to make a successful product.

 

It seems like most farang in SE Asia (outside Singapore) are retired, maybe some work offshore and some run businesses, maybe actual companies making something, or as a digital one-man-band, making or selling something. It doesn't seem like teaching is financially rewarding way to go, unless it's at an international school, and it's not a vocation for everyone.

Most that I know are either very comfortable already OR otherwise just working for themselves, few seem to last longer than 3 or let alone 5 years.
The ones that I seen around longer are often retirees etc. Others just have X year contract jobs in offices and earn very decent, but never for a lifetime.

I personally might as well be fine for 10-20 years more, it is just that I do not think it to be worth the risk.
You can't guarantee business, anything can always happen, just like with a job.

Many people I came across, live on less than 30-50K a month (they still have to save from this money too).
They say they are OK with the lower earnings as of having the chance to live here, but none plan to stay forever.

Edited February 10, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[bwpage3]

The possibility of your income taking a crash is very high, then what will you do?

 

Is your family approved/passports to move to your home country?

 

The cheapest Thai school or the most expensive Thai school will get your son an education so he can earn 15,000 baht a month in Thailand. He would be much better off being educated in the West.

 

It doesn't take 500K to move home, it takes a little planning where you will live/work and 3 air tickets.

 

Young people never, never, never realize the value of savings, 401K matching, pension etc. that they can build up in the west. You won't ever have that staying in Thailand and you won't ever save enough to have a comfortable retirement.

 

You need to realize Thailand is going to get more and more expensive each year. National problems across the board from pollution to floods to crime, etc. will increase. Insurance requirements or any new additional charges the gov't might come up with in the coming years.

 

You need to start looking at the big picture and not the right now picture.

[Pravda]

Just now, bwpage3 said:

The possibility of your income taking a crash is very high, then what will you do?

This.

 

Self employed in Thailand is a disaster in the making. I can expand on this a bit especially if this business is online/digital nomad kind of thing. Especially since making a pittance of 100k baht a month,

 

Go home.