UK plans to introduce border controls on EU goods after post-Brexit transition

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, codebunny said:

If the Germans like exporting to the UK, they may have to cut their costs to keep the prices down, if Barnier trashes German exports by failing to agree a deal.

Given the UK’s appalling and stagnant productivity rates I’m not sure any Brexiteer is in a position give any meaningful comment on Germany cutting costs.

[metisdead]

A post using a trolling meme has been removed. 

 

Some inflammatory posts and replies have been removed.  Please keep it civil when posting. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by metisdead

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, codebunny said:

After so many years of socialism, you're not allowed to; really the massive and ever-expanding budgetary waistline of the NHS should be cut, but that would apparently be evil, according to lefties.

The cost of it, of course, will be passed onto every subsequent generation in taxes, skintifying them.

You seem to have forgotten that Brexit promise to spend an extra £350,000,0000 a week on the NHS.

 

 

[samran]

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It would probably be EU Law as it was under the CFP. Not wealth destruction, more like redistribution. "Quotas" were set by the EU and they are going.  

So what comes next? Free market free for all? 
 

Sustainability issues aside, if quotas are gone you’ve just destroyed the quota holders investment. You know they hold a value don’t you? 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Nobody voted for hard Brexit.

 

This is what the leave campaign was saying before the referendum.

 

 

They lied.

 

When they said this, they never dreamed for one minute Leave would win! 

 

That and the fiasco for over 3 years in parliament showed how out of touch all UK politicians are.

[candide]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

We're out. These "quotas" are from the EU and should no longer apply. These "Codfathers" rich listers can be pressured to scale down their control of previous "quotas" with compulsory legislation, if necessary. A good topic for debate in the HoC.   

While the system of quotas is from the EU (and voted by UK), the management and trade of fishing rights is ruled by UK law. The EU had nothing to do with it. Other EU countries have chosen different systems to manage rights. The UK policy has been to commoditise fishing rights, often against the wishes of fishermen organisations.

[Baerboxer]

31 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Given the UK’s appalling and stagnant productivity rates I’m not sure any Brexiteer is in a position give any meaningful comment on Germany cutting costs.

 

Have you worked in both countries? In manufacturing? I have.

 

Britain has an appalling productivity rate. Something that seems to be ignored or put in the "too hard to solve" box. That should be a major concern.

 

Germany enjoyed a very protective home market. Years of being persuaded to "buy German only" and the myth of German quality (it's as good and bad as most other developed countries in reality IME) created very good markets for the large numbers of family owned businesses and SME. The German MNC's have taken some knocks with bribery, fraud and illegal activities and conspiracies, including some of their banks. The economy has been suffering; people reacted to Merkel's open house open door policies; right wing politics are progressing etc. 

 

I liked working and living in Germany. Good times. But all my German friends tell me things aren't so good anymore. Health care, education,  law and order, things that were excellent no longer are. They worry about the political right but also the power of immigrants who want to impose their culture more and more. Now they feel they've lost a good EU ally with the UK going. And moreover, that Germany will be expected to find any shortfalls and fund budgets more than before. Flexing productivity is no longer the easy answer.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, candide said:

While the system of quotas is from the EU (and voted by UK), the management and trade of fishing rights is ruled by UK law. The EU had nothing to do with it. Other EU countries have chosen different systems to manage rights. The UK policy has been to commoditise fishing rights, often against the wishes of fishermen organisations.

And those rights were sold just like any other private property may be sold.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Have you worked in both countries? In manufacturing? I have.

 

Britain has an appalling productivity rate. Something that seems to be ignored or put in the "too hard to solve" box. That should be a major concern.

 

Germany enjoyed a very protective home market. Years of being persuaded to "buy German only" and the myth of German quality (it's as good and bad as most other developed countries in reality IME) created very good markets for the large numbers of family owned businesses and SME. The German MNC's have taken some knocks with bribery, fraud and illegal activities and conspiracies, including some of their banks. The economy has been suffering; people reacted to Merkel's open house open door policies; right wing politics are progressing etc. 

 

I liked working and living in Germany. Good times. But all my German friends tell me things aren't so good anymore. Health care, education,  law and order, things that were excellent no longer are. They worry about the political right but also the power of immigrants who want to impose their culture more and more. Now they feel they've lost a good EU ally with the UK going. And moreover, that Germany will be expected to find any shortfalls and fund budgets more than before. Flexing productivity is no longer the easy answer.

 

 

Odd how you express the concerns you attribute to Germans in the same terms as your own familiar anti immigrant sentiments.

 

Perhaps because your friends, like everyone else’s friends are a self selected group.

 

My German friends do not express the concerns you tell us yours do.

 

It then my friends like your friends are a self selected group.

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

The percentage share for each Member State was agreed by Member States when quotas were first introduced for the fish stocks concerned, and the share-out between Member States stays the same each year. 

 

https://marinedevelopments.blog.gov.uk/2017/12/05/december-council-eu-fish-quotas-cfp-uk/

 

One assumes the same rules apply to non member EU countries that can also access fish stocks e.g. Norway. No doubt will be a major challenge for UK to renegotiate its quota allocations to it's advantage.

You miss the point. This is all under the EU CFP.  There can be involvement by other countries. We'll see. But we don't necessarily have to negotiate any EU quota allocations.

 

 

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And those rights were sold just like any other private property may be sold.

The automatic right of EU vessels to fish in British waters, in accordance with the EU’s common fisheries policy, is to be ended under the fisheries bill introduced to parliament today.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/29/eu-vessels-will-no-longer-have-automatic-access-to-uk-fishing-waters

 

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, candide said:

While the system of quotas is from the EU (and voted by UK), the management and trade of fishing rights is ruled by UK law. The EU had nothing to do with it. Other EU countries have chosen different systems to manage rights. The UK policy has been to commoditise fishing rights, often against the wishes of fishermen organisations.

The issue here is quotas. 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

The automatic right of EU vessels to fish in British waters, in accordance with the EU’s common fisheries policy, is to be ended under the fisheries bill introduced to parliament today.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/29/eu-vessels-will-no-longer-have-automatic-access-to-uk-fishing-waters

 

Except for those vessels belonging to owners of fishing rights.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, codebunny said:

The Guardian...

 

...dat be like the Daily Express for remainiacs.

I understand that Brexiters don't read it.

How could they still look in a mirror after they realize that they ignored all the important facts for years?

I guess it's so much easier to stay ignorant and trust Boris. ???? 

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Except for those vessels belonging to owners of fishing rights.

Source

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Intelligent adults in the UK really should have been able to work that out for themselves. Unfortunately not enough of those intelligent adults got off their backsides to go and vote.

 

They reap what they didn't even bother to sow. So be it!

To be fair in 2016 nobody talked about no custom union etc. All that came much later.

[Moo 2]

Boris has more serious problems to deal with than creating borders. 48% of voters in the UK want

to remain in the EU and will want answers soon, that's almost half or the population!

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, rhyddid said:

This means
EU products will be more expensive for UK citizens, which they need on daily basis, since UK alone can not produce them 

UK products will be expensive in EU which EU citizens can easily have them substitutes with EU products.

Excellent economic move, that will punish UK citizens, good maybe next time they will ask to re join EU .

British people will then stop buying expensive EU products and either go without or start making the things themselves , which will benefit the UK economy 

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, vogie said:

And back at you, the EU are looking to replace the British cash cow and good luck with that.

Replace the British cash cow ? ?  it is finally getting started, 1 Kan 2021, when import duty according WTO-rules will be levied over all UK imports into the EU  ! !  With am import of a € 200 Bn ( € 85 Bn changed to intern EU production, so greater advantage ! ) and at a 10 % = € 20 Bn /yr. More as the average net UK contribution to the EU of a GBP 7,9 Bn, see  https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886  and  https://fullfact.org/online/eu-budget-contributions-misleading/

Edited February 11, 2020 by puipuitom

[Nigel Garvie]

53 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

To be fair in 2016 nobody talked about no custom union etc. All that came much later.

I think the largest single problem about the UK having any decent trade agreement with the EU in the future is the mind boggling inadequacy of our team, lead by Boris the buffoon and Raab the idiot. These excuses for human beings have no idea what negotiation actually means. All we have so far is tub thumping bluster about rejecting EU standards for goods, great for the Tory gutter press, but useless to the ordinary citizen in the street. They won't buy our goods if they don't meet their perfectly reasonable standards. I would expect that if we had higher standards on any of our goods than they do, they would make an effort to meet our standards in order to sell to us, or come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. That's what adults do, unfortunately we don't seem to have any on our side. 

 

Alternatively we can sell out to the US and eat their lovely chlorinated chicken in return.

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, codebunny said:

If the Germans like exporting to the UK, they may have to cut their costs to keep the prices down, if Barnier trashes German exports by failing to agree a deal.

The Germans simply wait, till the UK - but all foreign owned- car plants are shut down: economies of scale...

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I think the largest single problem about the UK having any decent trade agreement with the EU in the future is the mind boggling inadequacy of our team, lead by Boris the buffoon and Raab the idiot. These excuses for human beings have no idea what negotiation actually means. All we have so far is tub thumping bluster about rejecting EU standards for goods, great for the Tory gutter press, but useless to the ordinary citizen in the street. They won't buy our goods if they don't meet their perfectly reasonable standards. I would expect that if we had higher standards on any of our goods than they do, they would make an effort to meet our standards in order to sell to us, or come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. That's what adults do, unfortunately we don't seem to have any on our side. 

 

Alternatively we can sell out to the US and eat their lovely chlorinated chicken in return.

If the EU says chlorinated chicken is safe to eat, that should be good enough for you, shouldn't it?

 

 

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I think the largest single problem about the UK having any decent trade agreement with the EU in the future is the mind boggling inadequacy of our team, lead by Boris the buffoon and Raab the idiot. These excuses for human beings have no idea what negotiation actually means. All we have so far is tub thumping bluster about rejecting EU standards for goods, great for the Tory gutter press, but useless to the ordinary citizen in the street. They won't buy our goods if they don't meet their perfectly reasonable standards. I would expect that if we had higher standards on any of our goods than they do, they would make an effort to meet our standards in order to sell to us, or come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. That's what adults do, unfortunately we don't seem to have any on our side. 

 

Alternatively we can sell out to the US and eat their lovely chlorinated chicken in return.

i Would think that UK companies that make products that they sell to the EU will make those products conform to EU rules .

  The UK Companies are highly unlikely to make products that do not pass E.U standards and rules , if they want to sell to the E.U 

[Nigel Garvie]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

British people will then stop buying expensive EU products and either go without or start making the things themselves , which will benefit the UK economy 

Try and think this through. EU people will buy less of our more expensive goods as well. We will both suffer the loss of trade, but they will be much better placed to cope with this than we are because our manufacturing industry is smaller than Italy's and we are basically a service industry economy.

 

I hope Brexiteers will enjoy going back to apples, carrots, and turnips, since there are many things we simply can't grow, or no longer have the skills to make.

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, codebunny said:

Most of the EU is plagued by high unemployment and sub-inflationary growth (i.e.: decline).

China desperately needs expertise in many areas, not least of which, in finance.

No, they already paid for the New Labour austerity repair programme; and with further reforms to de-NewLabourize Britain, they will benefit from the growth bonanza from new international trade deals, whilst Germany & Co. try to work out where to sell to if Britain ain't buying.

Again a Brit, who did NOT search on Internet first before filing his comment..

EU-28 unemployment at 6.2 % in December 2019, lowest since the start of the EU monthly unemployment series in January 2000.  

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Unemployment_statistics

 

The European Union economy grew by 1.1 percent year-on-year in the fourth quarter of 2019, easing from a 1.4 percent expansion in the previous period, a preliminary estimate showed.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/gdp-annual-growth-rate?continent=europe  

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So this is getting rid of the EU red tape is it?

Actually this is Britain's pathetic attempt to use threats to the EU to get a good a so called trade deal.  It's so embarrassing, so par for the course! 

Edited February 11, 2020 by dunroaming

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Try and think this through. EU people will buy less of our more expensive goods as well. We will both suffer the loss of trade, but they will be much better placed to cope with this than we are because our manufacturing industry is smaller than Italy's and we are basically a service industry economy.

 

I hope Brexiteers will enjoy going back to apples, carrots, and turnips, since there are many things we simply can't grow, or no longer have the skills to make.

Dont worry too much, things will work themselves out .

It was just a few years ago that people thought that they were going to starve to death or die from not having any medicine and 800 000 would lose their jobs and Frankfurt would take Londons place as a financial  hub  , dont worry , everything will be OK

[Nigel Garvie]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

If the EU says chlorinated chicken is safe to eat, that should be good enough for you, shouldn't it?

 

 

Err not exactly

 

Washing chicken in chlorine and other disinfectants to remove harmful bacteria was a practice banned by the European Union (EU) in 1997 over food safety concerns, the ban has stopped virtually all imports of US chicken meat which is generally treated by this process.

It's not consuming chlorine itself that the EU is worried about - in fact in 2005 the European Food Safety Authority said that "exposure to chlorite residues arising from treated poultry carcasses would be of no safety concern", but the EU believes that relying on a chlorine rinse at the end of the meat production process could be a way of compensating for poor hygiene standards - such as dirty or crowded abattoirs.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Dont worry too much, things will work themselves out .

It was just a few years ago that people thought that they were going to starve to death or die from not having any medicine and 800 000 would lose their jobs and Frankfurt would take Londons place as a financial  hub  , dont worry , everything will be OK

Optimism is glorious, but realism is better.

[evadgib]

12 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

I think the largest single problem about the UK having any decent trade agreement with the EU in the future is the mind boggling inadequacy of our team, lead by Boris the buffoon and Raab the idiot. These excuses for human beings have no idea what negotiation actually means. All we have so far is tub thumping bluster about rejecting EU standards for goods, great for the Tory gutter press, but useless to the ordinary citizen in the street. They won't buy our goods if they don't meet their perfectly reasonable standards. I would expect that if we had higher standards on any of our goods than they do, they would make an effort to meet our standards in order to sell to us, or come to a mutually agreeable arrangement. That's what adults do, unfortunately we don't seem to have any on our side. 

 

Alternatively we can sell out to the US and eat their lovely chlorinated chicken in return.

- Boris gave several example where UK standards exceeded the EU's in his 40min speech at Greenwich recently.

 

- I (we) eat chicken regularly in LoS. I have no idea how Thai standards fare compared to the 'chlorinated' smokescreen being pedalled as a stick to beat Boris with but I'm having none of it.