Lethwei from Burma is 2000 years old. Much older than Kymer Bokator which is 1100 years old.

 

Muay Boran most likely is a combo of the two.

 

Muay Thai just a modern version.

35 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

It's Cambodian in origin, not Thai

I'd disagree with that. It's much more closely related to Myanmar. I've trained in, coached in, and fought in all 3 countries. Most people who've grown up around the sport suggest it comes from Burma. 

 

Although in my opinion Cambodia is catching up quickly, they have a better grasp on the elbow work but are still somewhat behind in kicking aspect. 

Bokator allowed on the ground fighting. So the Cambodians could say they invented mma.

 

Muay Boran did allow on the ground fighting too.

 

The stances and strikes are probably closer between Muay Boran and Lethwei.

57 minutes ago, stouricks said:

You call that row MUSIC.

I was led to believe that the 'musicians' follow the fight, not vise-versa.

No. The music starts slow and picks up as the rounds go on. 

 

You don't even notice it after a while. I only notice it during the 5th round when I fight and it's useful to know how much time is on the clock when you are in the heat of it. 

 

To the untrained eye the Ram Muay and Wai Kru are the most boring aspect of Thai boxing. To the untrained ear its definitely the music, but I don't blame people for hating the music. It's hard to get used to 

I like it. John Wayne Parr always put on a good show. Some western fighters just walked out and did nothing. Followed jwp's career for years.

 

Nathan Corbett did nothing but gee he could fight. King of elbows.

 

That 2001 to 2015 era was amazing for fighters.

6 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

Haha sorry. Went a bit overboard 

Yeah but well done, keep doing what looks like a good thing. ????

4 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

Any time you want to have a battle of wits about the safety of Thai boxing or combat sports in Thailand I'll be all ears.

https://www.chiangraitimes.com/health/thai-doctors-call-for-crackdown-on-child-muay-thai-boxing/

1 hour ago, gunderhill said:

https://www.chiangraitimes.com/health/thai-doctors-call-for-crackdown-on-child-muay-thai-boxing/

I think doctors should be calling for crackdowns on people driving motorcycles like idiots, the rampant drug abuse, drunk driving, Thai women selling their bodies to foreigners for sex and many other issues that cause far more harm in this country on a daily basis. 

 

You choose to ignore the positive aspects of my post which is pure ignorance. Do I wish that they had different avenues in which they can have a shred of hope at a normal life? Of course. I live here, coach and fight by choice, it's my passion. They didn't choose to get born into poverty stricken circumstances or worse. The reality of their situation isn't pretty. But it's real. And the fact that you have to cherry pick articles off the internet proves that. 

 

The two of you failed to address my comments earlier about something more positive that will provide them a financial gain. You chose to ignore those paragraphs in my post because you don't have a rebuttal. You haven't been up here and see what goes on, the circumstances that they come from and the situations that they live in. 

 

So if I follow your lead and ideologys, you'd rather I turn a blind eye and do nothing for them like 99% of the population? Pretend they don't exist? That's what both the governments in Thailand and Myanmar do. 

 

If you could come up with a single idea of substance that would allow me to help these young men in a better way than I currently do I'd be all ears to hear it. But the reality is, there isn't one. That's why they are in these situations in the first place. If you care so much and want to white knight about what's right and wrong why don't you get up off your butt and come help me? Until that day happens your opinion is moot. If you would like to help me take care of 28 kids I'll happily bus them down your way and you can support them and educate them. The you can make sure their extracurricular activities are safe enough in your eyes. 

 

 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Nakmuay887 said:

I think doctors should be calling for crackdowns on people driving motorcycles like idiots, the rampant drug abuse, drunk driving, Thai women selling their bodies to foreigners for sex and many other issues that cause far more harm in this country on a daily basis. 

 

You choose to ignore the positive aspects of my post which is pure ignorance. Do I wish that they had different avenues in which they can have a shred of hope at a normal life? Of course. I live here, coach and fight by choice, it's my passion. They didn't choose to get born into poverty stricken circumstances or worse. The reality of their situation isn't pretty. But it's real. And the fact that you have to cherry pick articles off the internet proves that. 

 

The two of you failed to address my comments earlier about something more positive that will provide them a financial gain. You chose to ignore those paragraphs in my post because you don't have a rebuttal. You haven't been up here and see what goes on, the circumstances that they come from and the situations that they live in. 

 

So if I follow your lead and ideologys, you'd rather I turn a blind eye and do nothing for them like 99% of the population? Pretend they don't exist? That's what both the governments in Thailand and Myanmar do. 

 

If you could come up with a single idea of substance that would allow me to help these young men in a better way than I currently do I'd be all ears to hear it. But the reality is, there isn't one. That's why they are in these situations in the first place. If you care so much and want to white knight about what's right and wrong why don't you get up off your butt and come help me? Until that day happens your opinion is moot. If you would like to help me take care of 28 kids I'll happily bus them down your way and you can support them and educate them. The you can make sure their extracurricular activities are safe enough in your eyes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice 1 Bruh, don't mind the H8TR's - they'd die off right quick just trying to hit the bag for 3x3 min rounds.

4 hours ago, Aussiepeter said:

Two lines from the movie "Platoon" fit this situation well and cover different posters 'going at each other' like there is no tomorrow, so please calm down ! The first line is when one soldier says "opinions are like axxx-holes, everybody has one" (true) and secondly (and more important) is when Sgt Barnes says "there is the way it ought to be and then, there is the way it is" ! The way it ought to be is that all Thai kids, Australian kids, Lao kids etc should have a good life and family upbringing - then there is "the way it is". Reality. Kids whose parents are dropkicks, druggies or worse still, dead ! I have been to the area the OP is talking about. From 1993 to 1996 I was an Officer in a foreign army that assisted in Thailand with both the border patrol (Tor Chor Dor) and the RTA. The Karen and other hill tribes in this particular border area have had to put up with rape and murder by the Tatmadaw  (the Burmese army) and being treated as second level by the 'locals' for umpteen years. I personally think that anyone who can offer any help to often abandoned, parentless or destitute kids in a border area, no matter what help, is far better than kids living on a rubbish tip and just surviving or worse, turning to drugs. The area in question was heavily landmined and often these kids have seen it all. Parents with legs blown off, or just dead. There are arguments both for and against Muay Thai, but at least the kids are doing something. Shortly after I left the army and married my Thai wife, a Thai general 'asked me' if I would consider teaching English in his sister's (private) primary school in C Mai, as I am near fluent in northern Thai (and you do not say "No" to a Thai general). As a special-forces trained Officer I had a uni degree, but my talents were hardly kindergarten stuff. Most that knew me said that I would not last two weeks as a school teacher, but I stayed on for thirteen years and proved them all wrong, until the "air" in CM gave me cancer of the throat. I lived in LOS for over 25 years and after all the bonking I did there in 93-96, I owed the country something. Give this bloke some credit - cos he ain't doing it for the money.

What money? I wish their was money haha. Anytime I've ever received any it went immediately back to them. I never started this with the intention to earn a dollar. 

 

One of the most knowledgeable posts I've read on this forum. You truly understand the area and the Karen people. They are something to really admire and a true hidden gem in this country. Their work ethic and heart is something to admire. 

 

Speaking of land mines, I spent 3 days in a Karen village last week for a wedding and would need more than two hands and two feet to count the amount of victims of landmines or missing limbs/disabilities from skirmishes with the Burmese military. The village was 90 miles outside Mae Sot and many of the men in this village carry rifles everywhere they go. I asked one guy why and he tapped his rifle and said "Burmese" and pointed behind him at the river. Myanmar is a small swim across the Moei River that runs through town and even though are on the Thai side, many people still worry about the Burmese military because of what was done to them. 

 

I admire you helping in this area during your service, these children mean the world to me. 

 

Awesome post, thank you for taking the time to write it 

1 hour ago, Nakmuay887 said:

If you would like to help me take care of 28 kids I'll happily bus them down your way and you can support them and educate them. The you can make sure their extracurricular activities are safe enough in your eyes. 

You chose to  post  this  on a public forum, I am free  to respond, if  you want to take on this job that's up to you, Ive done my bit  in life by being responsible and not  having kids that I couldn't take  care  of. 

What any of that has to do with "children"  fighting Iv'e no  idea.

Any decent country would have adequate measures to take  care of these  kids which wouldn't involve them hitting each  other.

1 hour ago, Nakmuay887 said:

The two of you failed to address my comments earlier about something more positive that will provide them a financial gain.

Fighting for  money tells  me  all I  need to  know.

29 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

You chose to  post  this  on a public forum, I am free  to respond, if  you want to take on this job that's up to you, Ive done my bit  in life by being responsible and not  having kids that I couldn't take  care  of. 

What any of that has to do with "children"  fighting Iv'e no  idea.

Any decent country would have adequate measures to take  care of these  kids which wouldn't involve them hitting each  other.

You've done your part? Sure sounds like it. I'm used to dumbing conversations down for folks since I've moved out to the boonies but this is below even me and my meager education. Good God man. 

 

Thank you for reinforcing my previous points by once again ignoring them because you have no rebuttal or any comments of merit.

 

Also this isn't a "job" as you called it. I don't earn money doing this. I do this because I am incredibly good at it and because I'm the only person who gives a damn enough to say that these kids deserve more than being confined to an early death or drug dealing to put food on the table once they become adults. 

 

Closing your eyes to the "real" Thailand doesn't make it go away, nor does it make it correct. It makes you naive. 

 

Good evening. 

 

 

7 hours ago, UbonThani said:

They are protected. That's what gloves are for.

 

The most serious injuries are those caused by the rotational acceleration of the brain within the cranial cavity.

 

Gloves do nothing to stop that movement and the damage it does.

 

In fact they increase its likelihood by diminishing the amount of external surface damage, which might otherwise provoke a end to the fighting.

 

Their main function is to stop injuries to the fists.......which would progressively weaken the punching ability and ultimately terminate it.

 

Their function is to make the "fun" last longer.

 

https://www.worldsafety2018.org/why-do-boxers-wear-gloves/

"However, brain injury is caused by the quick acceleration of the brain, not the impact of the punch"

"The primary reason gloves are used in boxing is to protect the fighters from hand injuries."

"The main reason glove use is unsafe is because of the increased risk of brain damage."

 

Let's Talk Physics, Gloves, Combat Sports and Brain Trauma ...

“Boxing gloves and MMA gloves are effective at absorbing and dispersing the energy of impact, which causes local tissue damage, but we have no reason to believe any gloves reduce momentum transfer.  In fact, thanks to the excellent hand protection gloves provide, fighters are able to punch with greater momentum than they would with bare knuckles, and they are able to attack hard targets like the head more often.  This means gloves do a great job of reducing the types of injuries associated with structural tissue damage (cuts, bruises, swelling, black eyes, and broken bones), but they also lead to an increase in the frequency and intensity of momentum transfer to the brain, which is directly related to diffuse axonal injury and CTE."

 

 

 

 

13 hours ago, UbonThani said:

People die in rugby every year champ. You want to ban it?

 

Time for you to wake up.

Thousands die in car crashes every year- should cars be banned? Flying? Scuba diving?

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thousands die in car crashes every year- should cars be banned? Flying? Scuba diving?

Would you let children fly a plane drive a  bike/car, oh wait, yes it's Thailand I forgot

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thousands die in car crashes every year- should cars be banned? Flying? Scuba diving?

Exactly. The nanny state people just don't get it. Too much current affairs on tv telling them what to think about a sport they know nothing about.

5 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

I have a 4 year associates degree in physical education at one of the top universities in Canada as well as a masters degree in Criminal Justice with my major being done in criminology.

What is a "4 year associates degree"? In the US and Canada an associates degree is usually a 2 year degree, earned after 60 credit hours. Just for the record, last year you described your educational credentials here #49 as:

 

On 7/8/2019 at 9:46 AM, Nakmuay887 said:

My fallback plan in Canada is my degree. I have a 4 year degree in criminal justice/policing. That was my break fall and back up had fighting and starting my gym not panned out. When I made the decision to fight professionally I went to university beforehand and got a degree in case I sustained an injury fighting that would "retire" me from the sport. 

Just now, UbonThani said:

Exactly. The nanny state people just don't get it. Too much current affairs on tv telling them what to think about a sport they know nothing about.

I'll  take that nanny state where the life expectancy is  higher thanks.

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

Would you let children fly a plane drive a  bike/car, oh wait, yes it's Thailand I forgot

Kids fly in planes daily. Kids ride in cars daily. Kids cycle daily.

 

You think only pilots and drivers die? Great logic

Just now, UbonThani said:

Kids fly in planes daily. Kids ride in cars daily. Kids cycle daily.

 

You think only pilots and drivers die? Great logic

There's a  difference between flying a plane and flying in a plane ditto with vehicles, get it?

5 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

 

I have a 4 year associates degree in physical education at one of the top universities in Canada as well as a masters degree in Criminal Justice with my major being done in criminology. I'm a licensed nutritionist, and had finished two years of a degree in kinesiology before I opened my own business in Canada at the age of 25 which I ran for 4 years in Canada on my own successfully before I sold up and moved to Thailand to finish my boxing career. 

 

You run your mouth about things that you know nothing about and try to belittle me on the internet because you disagree with what I am doing yet have the gall to question my moral basis. 

 

If you want to insult my intelligence that's fine, but I'll happily dance circles around you intellectually in a variety of topics. Why? Because I don't open my yap about things I don't know or understand. 

 

I'm sorry that my education and moral compass don't live up to your high standards. Now put the Leo down, turn off your computer and go to sleep. Before I embarrass you 

Even a cursory reading of your "cv" will raise an eyebrow. 4 year associates degree? The only province that awards an associate's DIPLOMA is in British Columbia, and no, it is not a proper University level degree. It is intended to fill the gap  for those who are not qualified to complete a university degree. However, the issue here isn't your qualification to lead a gym class, but rather your refusal to recognize that children pounding their developing brains to mush is unethical and wrong.  Yes, Thailand allows it and so does Myanmar. The participants  are typically poor, powerless, disadvantaged and easily abused. They are throw away kids. And there you are participating in their  exploitation, and sad to say, physical abuse. 

 

It's great that you attended classes two years into an exercise diploma/kinesiology. The fact remains that you did not complete the program. Kinesiologists are an integral part of rehab teams and they have a self subscribed rule that their patients/clients undertake  physical activities that will not inflict physical harm.  Perhaps if you had  completed such a program you would  understand.  Wonderful that you are a licensed nutritionist. The  reality  is that neither of your last two 'accomplishments" qualifies you to  assess the brain damage inflicted on these children.

 

I know right from wrong, and I expect that anyone reading this thread who has an ounce of compassion for impoverished disadvantaged, dispossessed children will understand that the promotion, the encouragement of kids undertaking this brutal activity is wrong.  Just as wrong is that you would encourage such activity without  the children having the most basic of safety protection. NO responsible boxing coach would allow this. This isn't healthy physical activity, where kids are given head gear, mouth gear and groin protection. It's sadistic, opportunistic exploitation and nothing to celebrate.

 

You posted a story about how great you are and how you have taken these young boys and given them a chance to be fighters. What do you think you are operating? A gladiator school? 

 

Do you take us all for idiots with a statement like this;

A few of them have real futures In Muay Thai. Potential world champions at the highest level if they keep up with the work rate. The goal for the others is to have them learn enough life skills and education to have a chance at something of a real life once they are cut lose from the school. The stadiums in Bangkok are where the real pay days come from and promoters have already started scouting two of these boys which is quite the feat considering their ages. 

 

Everyone who knows even the least  bit about Thailand's Muay Thai racket knows that  non Thais have a remote chance of ever getting a break.  These kids would be fodder in the rink, toss aways like slaves tossed before the lions of the  Roman forums. The running joke I have with my friends when we watch the  fights is which ones are better fixed than others.  And yes that's the reality of the fight game in Thailand. However, you really insult peoples' intelligence with your line that promoters are scouting two of the boys.  Scouting for what?  No self respecting promoter would seek out young boys. People  will draw their own conclusions as to what becomes young boys lured to the city under the premise of a "muay thai career".

 

No. I am not fooled.

 

 

Great story, but too many photos. Keep up the good work. Best of luck for your future projects.

Cheers, Don

If you look at world champs they usually start prior to 14yo. Only rarely do people start at age 18 and become a world champ. Mundine started late but boxed since a kid in training and his father was a boxer.

 

Tyson would never have been a champ if he started at age 21. He would have been dead or in Jail for 30 years.

 

Nanny state people live in cafes and concrete buildings and they think living some lame boring life is living. That's more sad than anything.

 

Of course if we listened to these boring types these kids would be dead or on drugs.

 

In their narrow minds that's just better cause out if sight out of mind.

 

No you haven't been fooled, not at all. You just don't understand a thing about the real world.

18 hours ago, Nakmuay887 said:

My time is split between a migrant boarding school for Karen children

This question may be beyond your experience or involvement, but is there some career path for the Karen girls?

Thanks to the poster for the kind words/feedback. Again at the request of a general's wife, I taught English at CMU to nursing students who were going to study in Oz (about 10 years ago). The best three students were all Karen (and lovely), from the same general area near Mae Sot. In their late teens, I was shocked that all three had first-hand experience of treating war-wounds, but the thing I remember most about them was their sense of humour. When I was going back to Oz to renew my 'Non-O' marriage visa, I asked them if I could bring anything back from Australia for them. All three jumped up and said "your son" ! (I had previously shown them a photo of my 30 y.o. unmarried son) 

Good for you Joshua.. great photos and great report... it is obvious the affection they have for you and congrats on a life of helping others... truly well-lived... you are living your dream. 

17 hours ago, gunderhill said:

"Children" ? fighting? to be  honest I'm appalled.

member of the nanny state of europe no doubt. What a daft comment

Great post. Best this year. Keep up the good work

44 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

This question may be beyond your experience or involvement, but is there some career path for the Karen girls?

Good  question !