Child custody in Thailand

[Thairakrot]

To cut a long story short:  I have been in the typical Isaan-farrang trap for more than 10 years now.  I need to take legal action to keep contact with my valuable daughter 7 years old and to keep my sanity.  

 

1. My name is on the birth certificate

2. Im the legalized father at the amphur.  (Application signed by both mother and child)

3. I have shared custody under Norwegian law.  She is double citizen and also have Norwegian passport.  

 

A local lawyer claim I need first court proceedings to (once again) legalize my parenthood even I claim I did this already  (2) and then yet another proceedings for custody.  I'm pretty sure some other suffering farrang has been through similar actions in Thai.  Can anyone please help me with the following questions:

 

A:  Do I really need to go through yet another court proceeding to legalize parenthood when this is done already by registered application at the amphur?

B:  Do I have real rights after legalization like visitation rights and all the rights under the law.   (I have all relevant clause in the thai CCC).

C  Has anyone run a child custody case?  Outcome, price estimate, time etc.

D  If you are granted partial custody under C, what are your sanctions?  Will the police help you if the Isaan family obstructs?  

E  Can anyone recommend a trustworthy family lawyer in the Ratchaburi, Nakhon Pathim Nakhon Chaisi area?

 

Feedback is highly appreciated from members with similar lives.   

[offset]

       I might be able to answer some of your questions

 

A     I never had to go through another legalisation procedure but I had to have another      interview with Children's Welfare you might of miss understood this 

 

B     After legalisation I was told I have shared custody (I was never sure how true this is) but as far as having rights to see my child if mother did not want it is more difficult because it seems that police will not want to get involved

 

C       If what I was told about legalisation is true you do not need to get involved with that unless you want 100% custody over your child. It took me 3 months to get 100% custody over my child the cost depends on whether the mother agrees to it

 

D      Already answer in answer B

 

E      No

 

        I cannot say how true what I have been told is but I dealt with 2 different lawyers who both said the same thing

Edited February 17, 2020 by offset

[ChaiyaTH]

Not too long ago I asked 2 lawyers and they all told me that is has to go trough court and that this is a costly and lengthy process, even if mother agrees on it.
Marrying by government would be much easier for everything basically, they were nice enough to not even start mentioning what it would cost otherwise.

The name in birth certificate etc is pretty much useless without marriage or trying the courts. Even for getting him a Dutch passport needed to do this.

 

Edit: I believe that you could claim it somehow as you did but that is not official unless married or court judgement.

Edited February 17, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[Nip]

It's not at all difficult as others have mentioned above if the mother is willing to hand over sole custody of the child to you. And if that's the case then it shouldn't take too long nor be too costly. 6 to 8 weeks max and a lawyer with a translator c 15,000 baht. For me it was a short hearing in the juvenile court then the agreement was drawn up and at the second hearing the agreement was signed and stamped. Then the only possible problem is taking the child out of Thailand. I would advise that the mother is there in case there is a problem at immigration. Some will say there shouldn't be a problem but there can be. If the mother is not agreeable to give you sole custody then youve got major problems. I would flag also that I encountered a problem renewing my son's non Thai passport. The difference in having sole custody or being guardian. I would advise in any Thai court document to mention both. My passport office wanted a statement stating I was the childs legal guardian and the Thai court said I had sole custody. I should add we were not married the mother and I.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Nip
Grammar

[offset]

2 hours ago, Nip said:

It's not at all difficult as others have mentioned above if the mother is willing to hand over sole custody of the child to you. And if that's the case then it shouldn't take too long nor be too costly. 6 to 8 weeks max and a lawyer with a translator c 15,000 baht. For me it was a short hearing in the juvenile court then the agreement was drawn up and at the second hearing the agreement was signed and stamped. Then the only possible problem is taking the child out of Thailand. I would advise that the mother is there in case there is a problem at immigration. Some will say there shouldn't be a problem but there can be. If the mother is not agreeable to give you sole custody then youve got major problems. I would flag also that I encountered a problem renewing my son's non Thai passport. The difference in having sole custody or being guardian. I would advise in any Thai court document to mention both. My passport office wanted a statement stating I was the childs legal guardian and the Thai court said I had sole custody. I should add we were not married the mother and I.

I have never had any problems doing a new UK and Thai passport for my child by just showing a copy of the court order, even dealing with the immigration and when changing his school they always accepted the court order I have never been asked for anything from his mother 

[kwonitoy]

C 

 

Successfully done sole PP (Parental Power) which is custody's term in Thailand, cost 10,000 baht seven years ago, one interview with translator and witnesses at social services, wait 3 months and go to family court to be awarded sole custody by the judge. Official paperwork given to me after a one hour wait at the court. 

Uncontested by now ex-wife though, so it was just a paperwork exercise. 

[ChaiyaTH]

Interesting how certain people claim it is all so straightforward and easy but nobody can explain the exact procedure and steps.
As well that there are just as many, if not more, who say the exact opposite and have experienced so as well.

Edited February 18, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[offset]

38 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Interesting how certain people claim it is all so straightforward and easy but nobody can explain the exact procedure and steps.
As well that there are just as many, if not more, who say the exact opposite and have experienced so as well.

People can only tell by there own experience, I have done legalisation and sole custody with different lawyers both was straight forward but it was done with my son's mother agreement

 

The procedures were nearly the same lawyer puts in the papers to the court, a visit to the children's welfare then a court hearing the only difference was with legalisation the mother was given 1 month to change her mind before the papers were issued but for sole custody the papers were issued the same day

[bkk6060]

Sorry to hear when all you want is some time with your kid.

Gut it out, but do what is best for your child.

Good luck.

[cabanlit]

As someone as posted already, ensure any wording in any document says "Parental Power" - that is what carries the weight, not the word 'custody'.

 

Because my ex knew that our child would be better off with me in the west, it was an easy process. No arguments at all.

 

However, note that if you get 100% parental control, it would only be applicable in Thailand. 'The west' takes more of an equitable view, and unless there was abuse / violence happening, would not accept 100% control by one parent.

 

In this respect, I actually have more power in Thailand than I do in UK! But, no problems with 'mum' as she's supportive of our plans.

[ChaiyaTH]

On 2/18/2020 at 2:11 PM, offset said:

People can only tell by there own experience, I have done legalisation and sole custody with different lawyers both was straight forward but it was done with my son's mother agreement

 

The procedures were nearly the same lawyer puts in the papers to the court, a visit to the children's welfare then a court hearing the only difference was with legalisation the mother was given 1 month to change her mind before the papers were issued but for sole custody the papers were issued the same day

I am not saying that it are lies but the stories are really opposite. Unless you are leaving very high costs needed to be be paid out of the story? Can you tell how much?
I personally was surprised that both lawyers I tried, did not even give me a quote, I mean, it should be a straightforward job and easy money for them to make.
No drama either as we both agreed to do it. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[offset]

5 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

I am not saying that it are lies but the stories are really opposite. Unless you are leaving very high costs needed to be be paid out of the story? Can you tell how much?
I personally was surprised that both lawyers I tried, did not even give me a quote, I mean, it should be a straightforward job and easy money for them to make.
No drama either as we both agreed to do it. 

Both lawyers cost were 10000 baht nearly 5 and 7 years ago, and 1000 bhat to have somebody to translate for me

[ChaiyaTH]

19 hours ago, offset said:

Both lawyers cost were 10000 baht nearly 5 and 7 years ago, and 1000 bhat to have somebody to translate for me

That is peanuts. I would even be happy to have paid 2x that to get it done before. Too late now.

But exactly what confused me with the 2 lawyers I have asked (and 3 others who never reply on outdated websites / pages),
they can make easy money on this but seem to not be interested in it at all. You basically always end up with the high end ones if looking Online.

Edited February 20, 2020 by ChaiyaTH

[offset]

56 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

That is peanuts. I would even be happy to have paid 2x that to get it done before. Too late now.

But exactly what confused me with the 2 lawyers I have asked (and 3 others who never reply on outdated websites / pages),
they can make easy money on this but seem to not be interested in it at all. You basically always end up with the high end ones if looking Online.

I did not go online to find a lawyer I used recommended locals because they knew the local court system I also had a good interpreter to use when I spoke to the lawyer and court

 

It might be more difficult in places like Bangkok because most lawyers there are only interested in high fee paying cases

 

[Thairakrot]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:35 PM, offset said:

       I might be able to answer some of your questions

 

A     I never had to go through another legalisation procedure but I had to have another      interview with Children's Welfare you might of miss understood this 

 

B     After legalisation I was told I have shared custody (I was never sure how true this is) but as far as having rights to see my child if mother did not want it is more difficult because it seems that police will not want to get involved

 

C       If what I was told about legalisation is true you do not need to get involved with that unless you want 100% custody over your child. It took me 3 months to get 100% custody over my child the cost depends on whether the mother agrees to it

 

D      Already answer in answer B

 

E      No

 

        I cannot say how true what I have been told is but I dealt with 2 different lawyers who both said the same thing

Thanks for the answer.  The mother will for sure contest a custody (guardian) case as using the child against me is in her (their) mind the most efficient way of pressuring me for money.  (Had they only treated me like a human being, let me be with my child in peace and put the child's interest first they would have gotten my support until my daughter was grown up).   I dont intent to seek full custody as the child loves both her mother and father, but I will force them to let the child also be with her father.  This family is deeply bankrupt, alcohol and mental problems amongst people living in the house I built and they are for sure not able to provide for my child and her step son.   I have built house for them.  I supported the aunt to start a business ( and the first thing they did was to cheat both me and the mother), I have given them 25K bath ++ every month for 10-11 years paid all schools and medical.   I need to find a lawyer I can trust.  A local Thai lawyer quoted 90K baht for just legalizing my parenthood (once again...) and then another cost for getting partial custody.  Another lawyer quoted 50 K for all.   

 

My daughter is crying cause she miss her father.

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Thairakrot said:

I have given them 25K bath ++ every month for 10-11 years paid all schools and medical.   I need to find a lawyer I can trust.  A local Thai lawyer quoted 90K baht for just legalizing my parenthood (once again...) and then another cost for getting partial custody.  Another lawyer quoted 50 K for all.   

 

My daughter is crying cause she miss her father.

The first step is to cut off all money to them.

[Thairakrot]

Already done.  I use a nice neighbor to buy milk and good food for the two children.  No money to the rest even they started to ask again.  Its sad its down to this primitive level but seems the most efficient way is to force them to make an agreement and follow the agreement.   

[offset]

3 hours ago, Thairakrot said:

Thanks for the answer.  The mother will for sure contest a custody (guardian) case as using the child against me is in her (their) mind the most efficient way of pressuring me for money.  (Had they only treated me like a human being, let me be with my child in peace and put the child's interest first they would have gotten my support until my daughter was grown up).   I dont intent to seek full custody as the child loves both her mother and father, but I will force them to let the child also be with her father.  This family is deeply bankrupt, alcohol and mental problems amongst people living in the house I built and they are for sure not able to provide for my child and her step son.   I have built house for them.  I supported the aunt to start a business ( and the first thing they did was to cheat both me and the mother), I have given them 25K bath ++ every month for 10-11 years paid all schools and medical.   I need to find a lawyer I can trust.  A local Thai lawyer quoted 90K baht for just legalizing my parenthood (once again...) and then another cost for getting partial custody.  Another lawyer quoted 50 K for all.   

 

My daughter is crying cause she miss her father.

 

 

 

Why do you need to legalize you parenthood again if done at the Ampher you should have got a paper confirming that you are the father

 

Getting the mother to let you see the child that is another story and might not happen even if the court says you have the right to see your child I just think it will cost you a lot of money for no reward

 

The only way I see for you to see your child is go for full parenting rights (but you must be in a position to look after your child) then you can let your child be with their mother but she have no right to keep them from you

 

I can tell your from experience the Children Court only want what is best for the child 

[offset]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The first step is to cut off all money to them.

I think if he is going to go though the court cutting money from the mother might not put him in a good light, it maybe better just to give 5000 baht to show he is willing to support the child and put the rest of the money towards a good lawyer to go to court

[Thairakrot]

14 hours ago, offset said:

Why do you need to legalize you parenthood again if done at the Ampher you should have got a paper confirming that you are the father

 

Getting the mother to let you see the child that is another story and might not happen even if the court says you have the right to see your child I just think it will cost you a lot of money for no reward

 

The only way I see for you to see your child is go for full parenting rights (but you must be in a position to look after your child) then you can let your child be with their mother but she have no right to keep them from you

 

I can tell your from experience the Children Court only want what is best for the child 

Yes I have the paper and its duly registered at the amphur hence that's why I hesitated with the lawyer that intended to first run one court case for legalization (for 90 K baht) and then another for parental rights (custody) percentage….  I think she try to cheat me.  

 

I also fear that situation will be more or less the same even if I get a court order on shared custody.  If I dont have real sanctions its useless.  I guess the most efficient way is to cut the money again.  (For the nth time...).   

 

 

 

[stupidfarang]

Where in Thailand are you? This will help in someone recommending a good lawyer. Sadly money plays a big part in this, cutting money from the ex is in my opinion the best action and then supply food etc as you are doing only. You say you have cut the money 9 times? So 9 times you have started paying again? You have set it up in their minds that you will always start paying again. Here is a good link I found today about custody of a child in Thailand, "Parental powers" it looks like the best way to have a legal say over the children, all other ways do not give you much say or rights. (I am in a simalar sitiuation an am about to go through the Parental powers)

Good luck

[stupidfarang]

On 2/18/2020 at 4:30 AM, kwonitoy said:

C 

 

Successfully done sole PP (Parental Power) which is custody's term in Thailand, cost 10,000 baht seven years ago, one interview with translator and witnesses at social services, wait 3 months and go to family court to be awarded sole custody by the judge. Official paperwork given to me after a one hour wait at the court. 

Uncontested by now ex-wife though, so it was just a paperwork exercise. 

Hi Kwonitoy, can you tell how this was done? What department one needs to go to, what paperwork etc?? Am starting to look at doing this so any pointers would be welcomed. Thank you

[kwonitoy]

I hired the lawyer through a girl in the village where I was living, she's the translator.

 

Lawyer set up an appointment in the provincial capital, in my case Sahkon Nahkon with child social services, I don't know the exact name in Thai.

When we went for the appointment I took the translator and my nanny, my wife was not involved in my case, PM me for more details if you want.

The appointment with the case worker was LONG, about 4 hours in total. I was interviewed extensively and as it's a court/legal document they take everything very slowly with multiple questions about everything.

Translator who was also a character witness was also interviewed separately as was the nanny. If all the stories don't match up the process stops. 

They take it very seriously.

 

Paperwork, house book with my sons name in it, his birth certificate, my passport. Can't think of much more, but it was a while ago.

 

After taking all the information it was go home and wait, anything legal in this country is a slow process.

About 3 months we had a date to go to the family court in Sahkon Nahkon, the judge, who spoke pretty good english read over my case.

I was sworn in to tell the truth etc. and asked if all the information was correct, I said yes sir, and the judge said the case is very simple, banged his gavel and awarded me custody.  

[stupidfarang]

17 minutes ago, kwonitoy said:

I hired the lawyer through a girl in the village where I was living, she's the translator.

 

Lawyer set up an appointment in the provincial capital, in my case Sahkon Nahkon with child social services, I don't know the exact name in Thai.

When we went for the appointment I took the translator and my nanny, my wife was not involved in my case, PM me for more details if you want.

The appointment with the case worker was LONG, about 4 hours in total. I was interviewed extensively and as it's a court/legal document they take everything very slowly with multiple questions about everything.

Translator who was also a character witness was also interviewed separately as was the nanny. If all the stories don't match up the process stops. 

They take it very seriously.

 

Paperwork, house book with my sons name in it, his birth certificate, my passport. Can't think of much more, but it was a while ago.

 

After taking all the information it was go home and wait, anything legal in this country is a slow process.

About 3 months we had a date to go to the family court in Sahkon Nahkon, the judge, who spoke pretty good english read over my case.

I was sworn in to tell the truth etc. and asked if all the information was correct, I said yes sir, and the judge said the case is very simple, banged his gavel and awarded me custody.  

Thank you for the extra info, the ex is the one who has asked for me to get the papers so that is helpful. I will find the child social services and make an appointment though I think things will take a lot longer due to the coronavirus shutdown.

 

Thank you once again, appreciated

[Fenton Travers]

ENQUIRY:

I have an out of wedlock daughter in thailand. Born 2013. Mother is
not allowing me to contact her at all. I would like to try to get some
access to her. Happy to officially adopt or whatever is required.

---------------

RESPONSE:

Thank you for contacting us Siam Legal. My name is Chaiwut Ookchim, an
attorney at law in the family department.

According to Thai Family Law, a child born of the woman who is not
married to a man shall be deemed to be a legitimate child of the woman
and the woman shall has the sole custody over the child. The child
will only be legitimated by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or
by registration made on application by the father, or by the judgment
of the court.

 

If you has not yet legitimized the child and do not wish to marry with
the mother or the child is below 7 years old, you are required to file
a legitimization pleading to the court, and the custody issue can also
be agreed in the same case. If you and the your wife agreed on the
child custody, you may file the pleading to the court; then, your wife
and you will sign the compromise agreement in regard to the
legitimization and child custody in the court. You are required to
interview by the Juvenile Center and also to attend the court
hearing. For the court procedures, it could take from 3-6 months
depending on the availability of the court where the pleading will be
filed to.

 

After the court had pronounced a judgment effecting the registration
of the legitimization, you may have to submit the judgment to the
registrar for the registration of such judgment.

 

Our service fees for representing in the legitimization case through
the court procedure starts at 150,000 THB + 7%VAT depending on whether
the mother consents to the legitimization or not

 

Please feel free to contact me, should you have any further inquiries.

Best regards,
Chaiwut Ookchim