Can Sanders beat Trump? A growing number of Democratic voters say yes

[WalkingOrders]

48 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

There are two wild cards in the equation that could bring victory for Sanders.  1) illegal voters 2) the coronavirus will hurt the economy and the health care system will be in panic mode.  People want universal health care and this will make it even more necessary.

 

Bernie is a communist sympathizer.   Communists who Bernie cherishes such as Stalin and Mao and Castro killed many of their own people with Stalin being a madman in a slaughterhouse responsible for millons of deaths through his Gulags.  These Gulags were operated with the western powers knowing but doing nothing. A real crime against humanity.  So you want to start down Bernie's path?

While I do fear a Comrade Bernie Presidency, I have no fear of him bringing Gulags.

[86Tiger]

The Bern loses 49 states in general election if he is the dim nominee.  Possibly loses 50.  You heard it here......

Edited February 27, 2020 by 86Tiger
Spelling Error

[Cory1848]

11 minutes ago, riclag said:

   My countries fight against Maxism  and democratic socialism ideology has a long history with many fatalities to show for it. Hopefully, the history of  government control as seen in other instances from past failed experiments  won't take place in my country ! I won't be voting for sanders . There is a profound reason why he a Independent, never affiliated himself with the dem party !

 

Assuming that your country is the United States, can you provide details about the US fight against democratic socialism involving "many fatalities"? I don't remember any such conflict.

[cmarshall]

7 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

To be fair, Sanders considers himself a Socialist. I consider him a Marxist, and a Trotskyite.

In fact, Sanders is a garden variety social democrat like many European politicians.

 

Socialism calls for state ownership of the means of production.  Sanders hasn't called for nationalization of any US industries.  The other labels are just idiotic.

[WalkingOrders]

Just my two cents. As a conservative, and one who disagrees with just about everything out of Michelle Obama's mouth, I think it's just wrong to disrespect the former First lady by calling her a Lady boy, or trans. Just wrong and serves no good purpose.

[WalkingOrders]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. That's a moronic slur invented by 45. Please don't post such trash here.

But now I get what you're saying. 

I think impossible though. 

Not invented by 45

[WalkingOrders]

11 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

In fact, Sanders is a garden variety social democrat like many European politicians.

 

Socialism calls for state ownership of the means of production.  Sanders hasn't called for nationalization of any US industries.  The other labels are just idiotic.

Sanders has called for the nationalization of the energy sector of the United States, and said oil execs belong in jail. His words not mine. He also labels himself a socialist.

 

[Stargeezr]

Democtats in the US are like Alberta voters in Canada. They hope to defeat Trump,

but there is a lot of blue collar workers, who like the economy, and will vote Trump

even if he is not someone they would want as a friend. Maybe the American economy will

tank, then the Dems may have a chance.  Dream, dream.

Geezer

[UbonThani]

29 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Not invented by 45

Who is 45?

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

Who is 45?

The current U.S. president who went after 44 and before 46.

[Cory1848]

34 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Sanders has called for the nationalization of the energy sector of the United States, and said oil execs belong in jail. His words not mine. He also labels himself a socialist.

 

In the 1970s Sanders indeed called for the nationalization of the energy sector, and he has at various times called himself a “socialist.” That was fifty years ago; he has since moderated his views, and he now refers to himself as a social democrat (“garden variety,” someone else posted), which is what all of his policy proposals in fact indicate.

 

Have your views on things evolved at all in the past fifty years? I should certainly hope that they have.

 

As for wanting to throw oil industry executives in jail, that’s hardly staking out a broad political position one way or the other. I don’t know when he said it or in what context and I’m not going to bother looking it up, but I’m sure you’re right. Don’t you think the tobacco company executives, for instance, should have been punished for lying over a period of many years about the harmful effects of smoking cigarettes, including lying in front of Congress? I do! But that doesn’t make me a communist.

[earlinclaifornia]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Another embarrassingly bad debate being swept under the rug. They all acted like children and were pretty rude. It's funny watching a bunch of people of which none can win argue over who has the least chance of losing.

 

Bloomberg is just getting creepy, they say Biden has last his fastball but Bloomberg has no debate skills at all. However we are stuck with him so moving on... Warren, Steyer and Klobuchar should say goodbye. 

 

Buttigieg has won some delegates he should drop out swiftly though if SC primary shows he isn't the one. Biden seems to have better make up. You could almost imagine he could live another 6 months if you squint your eyes.

 

On the other hand maybe they should all stay in and let Bernie have it. It's becoming obvious the dems find Bloomberg as repulsive as Trump. It doesn't help that he has that arrogant, stereotypical, NYC, Jew, Billionaire thing going. I mean come on it's ridiculous. If you think Trump is ugly I can't imagine Bloomberg is held in much higher regard.

 

The tribe is divided and there is no clear winner. It is beginning to look like Bernie might do the impossible.

Never thought I would see the day I agree whole heartedly with you, Cryingdick. I also think that what I'm reading from JCauto just nails everything.  The fact Bernie is all about Healthcare plan and trump is not interestd in offering one. The COVID19/economy is the cause of trump not getting re-elected.

[sawadee1947]

6 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Not sure if that is actually correct. Bernie wants to abolish private cover altogether whilst European countries have a mixture of public/private.

Well, in many EU countries we have only ONE form of insurance. However with the option of additional benefits. 

And in those countries with public and private insurance the discussion about a One Insurance system has started already. 

So Sanders tries to implement only what is common sense since ages in Europe. ????

[riclag]

6 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Lets hope Bernie will be the main candidate supported by all Dem.

he the only one can keep up with ego rotten Trump, his false promises (get out of middle east and much more) got a good part of voters tired of him, what Trump got now is only the racist suprematist, pro Zionist, and the bigot Church people.

Bernie has a goot change to win the election if Dem fully support him, indeed we know several Dem top brass are on right wing Zionist payroll and therefore will do anything to boycott Bernie.
Condir that Bernie is a Jew, but a good one, who really want peace with Palestine and in all middle east.

If Americans, really want out of all these madness wars, end the huge continue mad shootings in their schools and be a positive leading country in the globe, Bernie is the man to be voted !

So you have no problem with sanders being labeled as a   communist.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-carville-fires-back-at-communist-bernie-sanders-proudly-calls-himself-a-hack

 

 

[malibukid]

Bernie will extend Medicare to expats living abroad, which will save taxpayers millions

Edited February 27, 2020 by malibukid

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, malibukid said:

Bernie will extend Medicare to expats living abroad

sanders has to get through the house and senate  if he wants laws changed or implement his agenda if and when. I  don't think America is radical enough to change capitalism or the present status quo  for his policies

Edited February 27, 2020 by riclag

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Berkshire said:

I agree with most of what you say and have said something similar previously.  Bernie is not really a socialist in the true sense of the word.  But you have to remember that most Americans are low-information.  Bernie can call himself a "freedom loving, God-fearing, gun-owning socialist" and the only thing people will remember is that he's a socialist.  And if there's one thing most Americans can agree on is that they don't want America to be a socialist country.  Again, Bernie is not advocating that.  But Trump and the right wing machine will beat that into everybody's head. 

And with emphasis on the point that most Americans seem to have no real understanding of the modern meaning of the word 'socialist', nor any real knowledge of what / how socialism or part/mixed socialist works or what it means in many countries. (e.g. UK, many Scandinavian countries, Japan, Australia and today China.)

 

For years I worked with many Americans and this subject came up for discussion many times.  On one occasion I asked 2 US professors if they saw 'socialist' as evil, they both quickly responded 'YES'.

 

Some further discussion revealed that they saw socialist as having the same meaning as nasty authoritarian communism.

 

Naive.

[Airalee]

5 minutes ago, malibukid said:

Bernie will extend Medicare to expats living abroad, which will save taxpayers millions

Beware of “free” healthcare.  I can’t buy insurance in California (or probably any other state even though I can afford it) so they shoved me into Medi-cal...with a clawback provision upon death.  If you don’t want to leave anything to your heirs...feel free to accept “free healthcare” from the government.

[bendejo]

48 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

before 46

I didn't know you were such an optimist!

????

 

It's either that or subversive.

 

 

[riclag]

13 minutes ago, scorecard said:

And with emphasis on the point that most Americans seem to have no real understanding of the modern meaning of the word 'socialist', nor any real knowledge of what / how socialism or part/mixed socialist works or what it means in many countries. (e.g. UK, many Scandinavian countries, Japan, Australia and today China.)

 

For years I worked with many Americans and this subject came up for discussion many times.  On one occasion I asked 2 US professors if they saw 'socialist' as evil, they both quickly responded 'YES'.

 

Some further discussion revealed that they saw socialist as having the same meaning as nasty authoritarian communism.

 

Naive.

Perhaps, its because government and powerful leaders of the party are controlling things with the emphasis on radical leaders in power and democratic process  interpretation

 

"Democratic socialism, a growing U.S. political movement in recent years, lands somewhere in between social democracy and communism. Like communists, democratic socialists believe workers should control the bulk of the means of production, and not be subjected to the will of the free market and the capitalist classes. But they believe their vision of socialism must be achieved through democratic processes, rather than revolution. 

https://www.history.com/news/socialism-communism-differences

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by riclag

[Cory1848]

15 minutes ago, riclag said:

So you have no problem with sanders being labeled as a   communist.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-carville-fires-back-at-communist-bernie-sanders-proudly-calls-himself-a-hack

 

 

Don’t be ridiculous. The “labeling” you’re referring to is something reportedly said by James Carville in a fit of pique, as reported by the Daily Beast. Now you’re repeating it in a public forum, equating “Bernie Sanders” and “communist” with no basis other than that. <sigh> This is how complete garbage gets spread around online in nanoseconds.

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

In the 1970s Sanders indeed called for the nationalization of the energy sector, and he has at various times called himself a “socialist.” That was fifty years ago; he has since moderated his views, and he now refers to himself as a social democrat (“garden variety,” someone else posted), which is what all of his policy proposals in fact indicate.

 

Have your views on things evolved at all in the past fifty years? I should certainly hope that they have.

 

As for wanting to throw oil industry executives in jail, that’s hardly staking out a broad political position one way or the other. I don’t know when he said it or in what context and I’m not going to bother looking it up, but I’m sure you’re right. Don’t you think the tobacco company executives, for instance, should have been punished for lying over a period of many years about the harmful effects of smoking cigarettes, including lying in front of Congress? I do! But that doesn’t make me a communist.

Not in the 1970s a few weeks ago.

[bendejo]

24 minutes ago, papa al said:

Disgusting that you can you dismiss the plethera of evidence

that M. Obama is trans and Barry is gay.

But this isn't going to stop her from teaming up with Hillary to run for president.  And Hillary is still wearing that cough-suppression machine in her waistband; no matter, she's going to die any day now, just as she's been these past six years.

Also, Liz Warren is actually a black man as well as member of the Black Panthers.  Something to do with a recessive gene. 

 

This right-wing stuff is funnier than satire, even funnier is how there are people who actually believe it. 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Not in the 1970s a few weeks ago.

Then there was the OBEC oil embargo wrecking the economy and a rather apt comment for that occasion. Things have changed since. 

[Solinvictus]

8 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Mayor Pete is their only hope...he offers a centrist option and appeals to younger voters...

Mayor Pete is shady for sure. The openly gay, rude, and smarmy politician that has gentrified NE Indiana actually is not appealing to many of the LGBT community. Indiana is a zombie state mostly, folks have been brainwashed to be against unions along with more worker's rights.

 

The guy is full of platitudes, lacking any substance all the while having a bad past with African Americans.

 

I said rude because did you see him in the last debate? But I digress..

[sawadee1947]

29 minutes ago, riclag said:

So you have no problem with sanders being labeled as a   communist.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-carville-fires-back-at-communist-bernie-sanders-proudly-calls-himself-a-hack

 

 

People who are calling him a communist don't know the difference between communism and socialism. 

Many Govt. From Europe got socialist leader. Are they communists? Of course not. 

[WalkingOrders]

34 minutes ago, rhyddid said:

Lets hope Bernie will be the main candidate supported by all Dem.

he the only one can keep up with ego rotten Trump, his false promises (get out of middle east and much more) got a good part of voters tired of him, what Trump got now is only the racist suprematist, pro Zionist, and the bigot Church people.

Bernie has a goot change to win the election if Dem fully support him, indeed we know several Dem top brass are on right wing Zionist payroll and therefore will do anything to boycott Bernie.
Condir that Bernie is a Jew, but a good one, who really want peace with Palestine and in all middle east.

If Americans, really want out of all these madness wars, end the huge continue mad shootings in their schools and be a positive leading country in the globe, Bernie is the man to be voted !

Antisemetic rubbish from someone with no skin in the game of American politics who probably should concentrate on a post American withdraw from Germany and how to deal with Russia.

 

This American supports dissolving NATO, withdrawing leaving Europe to its own and preparing a fleet for China, recommend the UK, AUS. And NZ start building Navys.

 

Better the Russians tied up on their West then free to roam Eastward, and let France and Germany fight over who will be supreme allied Commander of EU forces.

 

Dont call us.

 

If only I can convince American lawmakers. The force grows. Time to leave.

[Solinvictus]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Nope. He appeals more to older voters than younger voters. He has almost no appeal among blacks and Latinos. The star among younger voters in Bernie. Mayor Pete should drop out and help clear the field to oppose Bernie. 

 

It's basically a three way contest already for the democrats:

 

Bernie

Biden

Bloomberg

 

The 3 B's.

I agree with you.

 

Funny how the DEMs always had that saying 'vote blue no matter who' right?  Except for you know..Bernie.

 

Bloomberg is another nasty rich guy from NYC. To be quite straightforward, IMO, not voting for Bernie is simply dumb. I'm happy to debate anyone on that. Ha.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

People who are calling him a communist don't know the difference between communism and socialism. 

Many Govt. From Europe got socialist leader. Are they communists? Of course not. 

They don't even know the difference between a socialist and a democratic socialist.

[WalkingOrders]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

People who are calling him a communist don't know the difference between communism and socialism. 

Many Govt. From Europe got socialist leader. Are they communists? Of course not. 

As always, the claim that other people can't read, and that communists are only theoretical. I know a communist when I see one. Its anyone from an organization that calls each other Comrade. Communists ALWAYS hide who they are.