Logic behind high 'tourist' green fees

[Airalee]

I remember golfing a few times in San Luis Obispo, CA when I was in Uni.  
 

So....I checked the prices, thinking that it would be a LOT more expensive than golf in Thailand.

 

Boy was I wrong.  
 

Not only are the greens fees cheaper but you don’t need to hire (and then tip) a caddy and you can walk the course instead of paying for a cart.  And some of these courses come with nice ocean views.  Morro Bay Golf course was referred to as the “Poor Mans Pebble Beach”.

 

 

[topt]

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Strange one Treasure Hill, because it's a poorly designed course it beats majority\all of people up everytime but people play it because it's cheaper. Better to pay more and play a course you enjoy or skip a day

"poorly designed" in what way?

Personally I find it a real challenge and the previous gf (750) was not overly cheap by any standard so I don't think expats "play it because it's cheaper". They may choose to do so at 200 but we will see. 

[topt]

4 hours ago, Airalee said:

Not only are the greens fees cheaper but you don’t need to hire (and then tip) a caddy and you can walk the course instead of paying for a cart.

You can find examples where it is certainly cheaper but not the ones you quoted. 

Generally I am not paying more than 1500 baht per round (and normally less) which is less than $50US and that includes cf and tip.

As posted many times before the number of courses where carts are not compulsory far outweighs those where they are especially around Pattaya and Hua Hin.

I sympathise if your local courses are much more expensive.

[smylee52]

The basic presumption that Falang have too much money encourages golf courses to charge high rates .  Falangs know that is not the case as many have to scrimp and scratch to treat themselves to a South East Asia holiday . When you have people who are not 2 week millionaires but have to budget their holiday then you have a situation where people bcome very sensitive to currency rates .The fact is the consistent strengthening of the baht against most foreign currencies gradually pushes through tipping points where golfers realize that what used to be affordable golf now has become relatively expensive . 

 

It probably is a stretch to ask golf courses to show a little more interest and reaction to fluctuating currency rates but no harm in raising the awareness . For golfing  Expats on a budget whose currency has lost 15-20-25% + then the first thing to go is golf for cost cutting .

 

I used to play 3X a week but now it is only 2X and sometimes just skip a week because I know when i go back home I get much better value for my golfing budget  .   

[smylee52]

15 minutes ago, topt said:

"poorly designed" in what way?

Personally I find it a real challenge and the previous gf (750) was not overly cheap by any standard so I don't think expats "play it because it's cheaper". They may choose to do so at 200 but we will see. 

Actually all the  Expats I know  play it because it is cheaper . Last year we played with a 1200 baht fee that included buggy . It is very popular with the golf bars . 

 

I agree it is poorly designed :

Hole #2 is a difficult par three creating a 2 or 3 group backlog  right off the start .

Hole #5 has extra coconut trees planted to create a wall in front of the green with a narrow gap .

Can't recall how many fairways have large trees in the middle of them to grab a tee shot or block your second shot . Just silly for a golf course to have so many trees in play . Give me a chainsaw and a couple of days and I could greatly improve this course .

 

IMHO it is poorly designed but playable and it is ralatively inexpensive so I am willing to play it . 

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, topt said:

"poorly designed" in what way?

Personally I find it a real challenge and the previous gf (750) was not overly cheap by any standard so I don't think expats "play it because it's cheaper". They may choose to do so at 200 but we will see. 

Many holes poorly designed, trees in the middle of fairways is just wrong, holes with no bailout, it's designed by a thicky. I know loads of people who use to play it because of the 1,000 baht incl cart deal, all come off the course hating it again

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, smylee52 said:

The basic presumption that Falang have too much money encourages golf courses to charge high rates .  Falangs know that is not the case as many have to scrimp and scratch to treat themselves to a South East Asia holiday . When you have people who are not 2 week millionaires but have to budget their holiday then you have a situation where people bcome very sensitive to currency rates .The fact is the consistent strengthening of the baht against most foreign currencies gradually pushes through tipping points where golfers realize that what used to be affordable golf now has become relatively expensive . 

 

It probably is a stretch to ask golf courses to show a little more interest and reaction to fluctuating currency rates but no harm in raising the awareness . For golfing  Expats on a budget whose currency has lost 15-20-25% + then the first thing to go is golf for cost cutting .

 

I used to play 3X a week but now it is only 2X and sometimes just skip a week because I know when i go back home I get much better value for my golfing budget  .   

I used to play 3x a week for 6 months at a time but I didn't want to do that as a full time expat so I've binned playing the full courses, now only play the Navy courses with no caddy. Playing golf here with forced caddy is 5-10x more expensive than a membership back in the UK, many people haven't done the sums to show how expensive it is over the year.

 

The only way to resolve this is to have optional caddies and golf courses offer reasonable annual membership with no stupid add on fees. Tourists can pay higher rates for a few weeks, they don't seem to mind. I suggest people stop playing these courses

[topt]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I suggest people stop playing these courses

Duly noted...........

[scubascuba3]

15 minutes ago, topt said:

Duly noted...........

For those who feel strongly about it, others can just carry on being obliviously stiffed

[topt]

18 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

others can just carry on being obliviously stiffed

IYHO perhaps. How about that perhaps some others are just making an informed choice..........

[whiteman]

Thailand the land of Rip offs when we they ever learn

[scubascuba3]

5 hours ago, topt said:

IYHO perhaps. How about that perhaps some others are just making an informed choice..........

ok so how much are your annual membership fees for unlimited golf in your home country vs playing golf here 3+ times a week?

[keithsimmonds]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:46 PM, keithsimmonds said:

The PSC website on my phone says Treasure Hill 200baht Green Fee every day till the end of November....that,s 550baht walking with caddy.....excellent value....so long as they don,t insist on compulsory cart???

As i more than half expected....it is now compulsory cart with the 200baht voucher.....shame @550bht i would have happily played there at least once a week on top of my normal weekly game.

[keithsimmonds]

As for the course itself i find it a challenge...yep quirky but different apart from the few holes with a tree in the fairway my only other criticism would be the stroke indexes are wrong imho on a few holes,eg the Crocodile hole par 5 is not index 15 imo nor the 3rd index 17 (both should be lower) but that,s just imo. In the over 100 games i have played in Pattaya/Chonburi so far i have only played there 8 times,the group i play with only play there if there is a deal on as it is not vfm compared to Greenwood or Pattavia both of which i can walk for 900 and 800 respectively.

Yes the (all in) price of golf is expensive here but it is all in, as there are no carts or caddies in the UK to compere prices with apart from the high end courses. What does irk me a little was like today at Burapha...carts were not allowed on the fairway yet a cart is compulsory.

[topt]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

ok so how much are your annual membership fees for unlimited golf in your home country vs playing golf here 3+ times a week?

What is the relevance.......I am here, and choose to be here, not in my home country. 

You choose not to play where there are caddies, I choose to play. Because I choose to do so does not make me oblivious to the costs, in fact the contrary. Perhaps you should consider other people may see things differently to you? 

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, topt said:

What is the relevance.......I am here, and choose to be here, not in my home country. 

You choose not to play where there are caddies, I choose to play. Because I choose to do so does not make me oblivious to the costs, in fact the contrary. Perhaps you should consider other people may see things differently to you? 

you obviously haven't compared costs

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, keithsimmonds said:

As for the course itself i find it a challenge...yep quirky but different apart from the few holes with a tree in the fairway my only other criticism would be the stroke indexes are wrong imho on a few holes,eg the Crocodile hole par 5 is not index 15 imo nor the 3rd index 17 (both should be lower) but that,s just imo. In the over 100 games i have played in Pattaya/Chonburi so far i have only played there 8 times,the group i play with only play there if there is a deal on as it is not vfm compared to Greenwood or Pattavia both of which i can walk for 900 and 800 respectively.

Yes the (all in) price of golf is expensive here but it is all in, as there are no carts or caddies in the UK to compere prices with apart from the high end courses. What does irk me a little was like today at Burapha...carts were not allowed on the fairway yet a cart is compulsory.

You're right yet another problem with that course is the incorrect stroke indexes which matters in the stableford comps

[bwpage3]

In Florida, USA golf is very cheap in the summer.

 

Many folks do not want to play because it is too hot.

 

Played yesterday for 600 baht at 12:30 PM when it was 96F. 

 

Didn't come across another group in front of us or in back of us the entire round.

 

Greens are all punched and sanded getting this ready for when the winter snowbirds arrive.

 

Usually from Nov to April, the prices at ALL the golf courses will go up 3x or 4x the summer prices.

 

This bites for all the locals that support the place all summer, however, what can you do?

 

Each year they get so many snowbirds paying 3X or 4x that they don't care about raising the prices.

 

 

[Berkshire]

14 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

In Florida, USA golf is very cheap in the summer.

 

Many folks do not want to play because it is too hot.

 

Played yesterday for 600 baht at 12:30 PM when it was 96F. 

 

Didn't come across another group in front of us or in back of us the entire round.

 

Greens are all punched and sanded getting this ready for when the winter snowbirds arrive.

 

Usually from Nov to April, the prices at ALL the golf courses will go up 3x or 4x the summer prices.

 

This bites for all the locals that support the place all summer, however, what can you do?

 

Each year they get so many snowbirds paying 3X or 4x that they don't care about raising the prices.

 

 

This is how it is in Thailand.  The thing is, these "outsiders" (snowbirds for you, tourists for us) basically subsidize the local golfers through much of the year.  They paying higher green fees during high season not only allows the courses to offer lower prices in the low season, but it allows these courses to even exist!  

 

I read about the situation in Hawaii, where public courses are currently getting decimated.  These courses need tourists to be paying the higher tourist-rate in order to survive.  But since the COVID has greatly restricted visitors, the muni courses (and I assume private as well) are struggling mightily.  This goes back to the thread title for why tourists get charged more. 

[eyup]

On 8/16/2020 at 4:35 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Strange one Treasure Hill, because it's a poorly designed course it beats majority\all of people up everytime but people play it because it's cheaper. Better to pay more and play a course you enjoy or skip a day

Great layout at Treasure Hill IMVHO ! Maybe a bit too long for some people?  Certainly better than the much played Khao Kheow which (again IMVHO) is a bit "mickey mouse"  

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, eyup said:

Great layout at Treasure Hill IMVHO ! Maybe a bit too long for some people?  Certainly better than the much played Khao Kheow which (again IMVHO) is a bit "mickey mouse"  

You prefer Treasure Hill designed by a thicky vs Khao Kheow designed by Pete Dye and co, he did ok with Sawgrass. High handicappers like Treasure Hill as they get loads of shots wherever they go

[keithsimmonds]

On a positive note in (Chonburi /Pattaya/Rayong) it does seem that Golf Courses are responding to the fact that some Aliens foreigners expats are resident here and are reflecting that in there offers....long may it continue. On a personal note i think Phoenix is way overpriced at 1300baht walking, same goes for Khao Kheow at 1500bht all in....but that,s just me.

[Sujo]

On 5/10/2020 at 7:08 AM, bkk6060 said:

It is ridiculous to complain about dual pricing.

Many western countries do it.

The City of San Diego gives big golf discounts to residents.  One of the courses is Torrey Pines where they will play the US open in the future.  Big discount I believe about 1/2 green fee for those with a resident card.

And places like Disneyland have offered discounts to state/local residents during certain times for years.

 

So, no need to cry discrimination.  If you don't like it or cannot afford it, then don't go.

I have played torrey pines, the discount is to residents. Not to residents of the usa, local residents. Its not based on nationality.

[Sujo]

43 minutes ago, keithsimmonds said:

On a positive note in (Chonburi /Pattaya/Rayong) it does seem that Golf Courses are responding to the fact that some Aliens foreigners expats are resident here and are reflecting that in there offers....long may it continue. On a personal note i think Phoenix is way overpriced at 1300baht walking, same goes for Khao Kheow at 1500bht all in....but that,s just me.

On a side note, what happened with the members v phoenix issue a couple of years ago. I heard members where boycotting it and there was a court case.

[keithsimmonds]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

On a side note, what happened with the members v phoenix issue a couple of years ago. I heard members where boycotting it and there was a court case.

I honestly don,t know,i was in the Uk when i saw the thread and followed it for a while but have no idea about how it all ended... if it has???

[topt]

On 8/18/2020 at 12:21 PM, eyup said:

Great layout at Treasure Hill IMVHO ! Maybe a bit too long for some people?

They relatively recently added new tee boxes to some holes and off yellows now is not normally as long as it was. 

On 8/18/2020 at 12:21 PM, eyup said:

Certainly better than the much played Khao Kheow which (again IMVHO) is a bit "mickey mouse"

Don't agree with that description - Wangunter Highlands I might describe as "a bit mickey mouse" but not KK. However we all have different criteria.

 

On 8/18/2020 at 1:51 PM, scubascuba3 said:

High handicappers like Treasure Hill as they get loads of shots wherever they go

That doesn't make any sense to me? Unless you are suggesting eyup is a high handicapper......... 

[topt]

18 hours ago, Sujo said:

On a side note, what happened with the members v phoenix issue a couple of years ago. I heard members where boycotting it and there was a court case.

 

16 hours ago, keithsimmonds said:

I honestly don,t know,i was in the Uk when i saw the thread and followed it for a while but have no idea about how it all ended... if it has???

Been very quiet for I think at least 2 years. Was supposedly going to court but never heard if it got there or if it was settled out of court. Someone on here will know?

Many people who originally boycotted (groups) went back to playing there when the course had offers again - and the course backed down on the stupid F&B voucher system and a few other things. 

 

Much more than 2 years - 

 

 

 

[Big Joke]

On 8/18/2020 at 6:51 AM, scubascuba3 said:

You prefer Treasure Hill designed by a thicky vs Khao Kheow designed by Pete Dye and co, he did ok with Sawgrass. High handicappers like Treasure Hill as they get loads of shots wherever they go

So who was the "thicky" that designed Treasure Hills?

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, topt said:

They relatively recently added new tee boxes to some holes and off yellows now is not normally as long as it was. 

Don't agree with that description - Wangunter Highlands I might describe as "a bit mickey mouse" but not KK. However we all have different criteria.

 

That doesn't make any sense to me? Unless you are suggesting eyup is a high handicapper......... 

It's an observation, high handicappers waste loads of shots wherever they go, so may play relatively better at Treasure Hill where luck is a bigger factor

[scubascuba3]

24 minutes ago, Big Joke said:

So who was the "thicky" that designed Treasure Hills?

no idea but most people don't like it, go only because it's cheap with cart. Trees in the middle of fairways, not an issue for guys who are usually in the rough anyway