Anyone from View Talay 2? What the buy/sell market there now?

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, scorecard said:

But when will there be 'better times', and long-term will prices ever get back to those of 1, 2, a few years ago?

 

A friend has a big luxury 2 bed 2 bath condo, famous luxury building very good condition sea view and Pattaya bay view, contacted maybe 20 professional agents put it on the market 1 year ago for 22MBaht, very few inspections, now reduced to 18MBaht.

 

A couple of weeks back 1 agent (high profile property agent) told him, even if you reduced price to half (9M) I doubt you will get a buyer.

 

Plus seems like plenty of farang nowadays not so interested in Pattaya. 

A bit more, after the above condo was on the market for maybe 8 to 10 months one viewer offered 20MBaht. Fifty% deposit, pay off the balance with monthly payments of 500,000Baht (20 months). Owner scoffed at/instantly rejected the offer, now very much regrets it.  

Edited March 27, 2020 by scorecard

[URMySunshine]

10 minutes ago, scorecard said:

A bit more, after the above condo was on the market for maybe 8 to 10 months one viewer offered 20MBaht. Fifty% deposit, pay off the balance with monthly payments of 500,000Baht (20 months). Owner scoffed at/instantly rejected the offer, now very much regrets it.  

When the Chinese come back (which they will eventually) they will want car-smash carnage blood on those prices. Oh higher priced units 50% off what they could have got year ago will be the starting asking price. Then they will airbnb it or some such like and then the block has gone to the dogs , each sale going ever lower. Oh and Indians will be sniffing around most probably as well. The sun is truly setting on the Pattaya Farang Journey and what a hell of a journey it has been.

Edited March 27, 2020 by URMySunshine

[chrisandsu]

The truth is most of the Thai owners will only let go of a property that can pay off the loan they have with the bank ,so they can only dip so low as I doubt the banks will let them short sale . The foreigners on the other hand have for the most part paid cash so that will either make it an easier sale as their prices can go way lower then the Thais and make the Thais go delinquent at certain buildings as the unit will be so under water it will be unsellable - which will be bad news for building fees , they will also have to take a haircut and lose quite a chunk in cash but still leave with something . Best of luck with that .

[strikingsunset]

19 hours ago, 19DL86 said:

This has to be a wind up right? ......and you're a midget, correct?  And where would this 2 bed 65sqm condo be Lilliput? 5555.  Google the real estate companies and have a look at some and then think about it.

For the same money and I m only guessing here, you'rein the 3m "ballpark" yes? Shop round and if you are serious, iyou can buy a lovely 120-150Sqm house 2-3 bed 2 bathroom perhaps even on a nice village with pool etc. If the land ownership is a problem use a competent lawyer and set up a Usufruct.

 

 

Apologies  if my post sounded like a wind up,it was genuine,just trying to get a fix on true prices,

though i accept right now nothing is normal.  

[BigStar]

59 minutes ago, strikingsunset said:

Apologies  if my post sounded like a wind up,it was genuine,just trying to get a fix on true prices,

though i accept right now nothing is normal.  

You'll need to go there or send someone to ask around to get a halfway intelligent answer. Here you'll just get the usual hot air from our Glutters, Doomsters, and ace Economists, renters all, whenever the word "condo" pushes their button. 

[19DL86]

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

You'll need to go there or send someone to ask around to get a halfway intelligent answer. Here you'll just get the usual hot air from our Glutters, Doomsters, and ace Economists, rent

Well Big Star (or am I speaking to Alex Chilton?).....I hope that I can be the exception to your rule, as I did offer some practical advice and a "lead" to a very good value unit.  It may have been disguised in my failed attempt at humor.   But I do think 65smq is way too small to be utilised for a two bed condo.  Hence my choice of "Lilliput."

 

Sorry perhaps my wit and references to such go over the heads of some readers.  As might do Alex Chilton ??
 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, BigStar said:

You'll need to go there or send someone to ask around to get a halfway intelligent answer.

What about the other half of the answer?  Most likely the more truthful half.  ????

[Hmunker]

On 3/25/2020 at 7:14 PM, chrisandsu said:

The second you compared NY city to Pattaya was the minute your post lost its credibility . Pattaya should be comparable with somewhere like North Dakota but with pollution . 

Remember Pattaya has a  beach.Cant beat a nice bit of fresh sea air.

[chrisandsu]

Just now, Hmunker said:

Remember Pattaya has a  beach.Cant beat a nice bit of fresh sea air.

Yes Sandwiched  between Siracha and Rayong . I can taste that air from here ????

[newnative]

9 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

Yes Sandwiched  between Siracha and Rayong . I can taste that air from here ????

    Just got up.  Sitting on my balcony with my coffee enjoying my view of the bay, Pattaya Beach, and the shoreline.  Speedboats gone and only a picturesque fishing boat close by. Nice breeze.  Quiet.  Mostly stuck at home but nice to have this view and widened, clean beach to walk for some exercise.  

[Rimmer]

Off topic bickering posts removed

[mike111]

On 3/26/2020 at 3:10 AM, Airalee said:

1.  You used 10k as the rental rate.  Here is one listed for 8k and I would be willing to bet that the owner would accept 7k.

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/listings/chonburi-condo-oqcymbgl

 

2.  For purchasing, you did not include the cost of entry and exit.  Transfer fees, realtor commissions.

 

3.  You failed to mention opportunity cost on the purchase money

 

4.  You failed to mention homeowner dues (monthly common fees), or special assessment costs such as the building paint job and swimming pool re-tiling that my landlord just had to pay. 

 

5.  You failed to mention the cost of replacing refrigerators, air conditioners etc etc which are borne by the landlord in a rental.

 

6.  It’s all about the P/E ratio.  As the condos become more expensive, the P/E gets worse.  My condo would sell for 3.214x the View Talay unit but I am only paying 1.9x the rent (using your numbers). As condos become even more expensive, the P/E becomes substantially worse (and more in favor of renting)

 

*I am currently in the market for purchasing a condo myself so spare me any “bitter renter”, “can’t afford”, “never gonna buy anyways” comments that seem to get thrown around here so much.

No intention to start a WW3 here, but I've previously checked the specific items you've mentioned:

1. You could probably find even cheaper units but I wouldn't rent anything going for less than 9-10K. There's no free lunch here - just go and inspect those sub 8K "bargains" - pure rat holes with old furniture, broken A/C and whatever.

2. Entry/Exit costs (I'm assuming you're referring to government taxes) are minor and are usually shared by the buyer and seller. For a VT2 studio they hover in the25K baht range for the buyer and seller each.

3. That's impossible to quantify. But the point here is that one shouldn't necessarily look at purchasing a residence purely as an investment. It's a place you buy to make it your own, and let's not forget that 1.4M is around 43K USD, so around the price of a new car. You would one if you were going to use it extensively wouldn't you? and a car depreciates by around 10% yearly no matter what (unless it's something exotic) while a property typically doesn't. So people are gladly willing to accept around a 50% car value depreciation over 5 years but are horrified at a 15%-20% depreciation, if at all, on an equally priced property that they've lived in, enjoyed, and made it their home during that time.

4. One of the merits of VT2 is that owner fees are low since it wasn't built with all nosensical BS like floating gardens and water fountains and whatever. Yearly fees are low at around 10K baht.

5. I didn't mention the cost of room maintenance due to rentals since I've mentioned the assumption is that the owner would reside in the unit.

6. Maybe condos in newer projects have become more expensive in terms of price per sq.m but as I've mentioned I wouldn't buy there because of inflated land prices, poor workmanship, and high maintenance fees. VT2 avoids all these pitfalls and I haven't seen the units there becoming significantly more expensive.

 

I've looked around enough to say that VT2 is in the sweet spot in terms of purchase cost, on-going fees, construction quality, and location, and that's why I think it's worth considering.

 

 

(x1.5 the price of pickup or 1x standatd Tesla Model 3)

[URMySunshine]

19 minutes ago, mike111 said:

No intention to start a WW3 here, but I've previously checked the specific items you've mentioned:

1. You could probably find even cheaper units but I wouldn't rent anything going for less than 9-10K. There's no free lunch here - just go and inspect those sub 8K "bargains" - pure rat holes with old furniture, broken A/C and whatever.

2. Entry/Exit costs (I'm assuming you're referring to government taxes) are minor and are usually shared by the buyer and seller. For a VT2 studio they hover in the25K baht range for the buyer and seller each.

3. That's impossible to quantify. But the point here is that one shouldn't necessarily look at purchasing a residence purely as an investment. It's a place you buy to make it your own, and let's not forget that 1.4M is around 43K USD, so around the price of a new car. You would one if you were going to use it extensively wouldn't you? and a car depreciates by around 10% yearly no matter what (unless it's something exotic) while a property typically doesn't. So people are gladly willing to accept around a 50% car value depreciation over 5 years but are horrified at a 15%-20% depreciation, if at all, on an equally priced property that they've lived in, enjoyed, and made it their home during that time.

4. One of the merits of VT2 is that owner fees are low since it wasn't built with all nosensical BS like floating gardens and water fountains and whatever. Yearly fees are low at around 10K baht.

5. I didn't mention the cost of room maintenance due to rentals since I've mentioned the assumption is that the owner would reside in the unit.

6. Maybe condos in newer projects have become more expensive in terms of price per sq.m but as I've mentioned I wouldn't buy there because of inflated land prices, poor workmanship, and high maintenance fees. VT2 avoids all these pitfalls and I haven't seen the units there becoming significantly more expensive.

 

I've looked around enough to say that VT2 is in the sweet spot in terms of purchase cost, on-going fees, construction quality, and location, and that's why I think it's worth considering.

 

 

(x1.5 the price of pickup or 1x standatd Tesla Model 3)

Pretty much on the money - I would add if you do want a condo to live - then maybe consider a lower floor on the low season dark side - (Theppraya road side) as they are much cheaper. Or if you want to be really brave and like company the ground floor on the non-poolside. They are quiet , cheap and you could even run a business from there if you wanted. But as I said upthread I wouldn't buy now and it really is my post-expiry wife's landing point. Not really for me - I'm done with LoS. Maybe give Phil Christy a cheeky offer I heard he's holding 17 units and wants to sell !

[izod10]

On 3/27/2020 at 4:04 PM, URMySunshine said:

When the Chinese come back (which they will eventually) they will want car-smash carnage blood on those prices. Oh higher priced units 50% off what they could have got year ago will be the starting asking price. Then they will airbnb it or some such like and then the block has gone to the dogs , each sale going ever lower. Oh and Indians will be sniffing around most probably as well. The sun is truly setting on the Pattaya Farang Journey and what a hell of a journey it has been.

They will never come back,not in the numbers as before. Post virus numbers will be minute,remember all the pandemic procedures have to be paid for,huge taxation,forbidden money transfers,the Chinese themselves despised Indians are not that stupid,they will see a sinking ship a mile off,nobody will have excess funds to buy anything for years to come

   Personally I like a house,keep the condos..horrible.  Rents now are so low,it feels like an owner will pay you just to stay there,...yes had one offer,stay there for free while a sale is attempted, and still the place gets cheaper

  There is no talking this market up...period

[newnative]

4 hours ago, izod10 said:

They will never come back,not in the numbers as before. Post virus numbers will be minute,remember all the pandemic procedures have to be paid for,huge taxation,forbidden money transfers,the Chinese themselves despised Indians are not that stupid,they will see a sinking ship a mile off,nobody will have excess funds to buy anything for years to come

   Personally I like a house,keep the condos..horrible.  Rents now are so low,it feels like an owner will pay you just to stay there,...yes had one offer,stay there for free while a sale is attempted, and still the place gets cheaper

  There is no talking this market up...period

    You're thinking way too short-term.  Of course the Chinese will be back--they were still coming even in the midst of the virus as independent travelers when China stopped the group tours.  There's turmoil everywhere in the World right now, not just Thailand.  Look at Italy.  The turmoil might last 6 or 8 months more or a year or more, nobody knows.  At some point, though, the virus will be eventually stamped out, vaccines will be developed, and people will want to do things like travel again.  Good to remember that Thailand sits a fairly short plane ride from the 2 most populous countries in the World.

    

[19DL86]

3 hours ago, newnative said:

    You're thinking way too short-term.  Of course the Chinese will be back--they were still coming even in the midst of the virus as independent travelers when China stopped the group tours.  There's turmoil everywhere in the World right now, not just Thailand.  Look at Italy.  The turmoil might last 6 or 8 months more or a year or more, nobody knows.  At some point, though, the virus will be eventually stamped out, vaccines will be developed, and people will want to do things like travel again.  Good to remember that Thailand sits a fairly short plane ride from the 2 most populous countries in the World.

    

Yes I agree there to some of the valid points Newnative.  But you're again pointing towards the investment/speculation buyer.  For rental to the Chinese or Indian tourist if, or once they return. Correct?

 

This was nt what I picked up in your early threads. nor what was Mikes proposed purchase for.

 

Either way, we are very much in the primary stages to speculate, it's very early.  Also as all here seem to agree - this will not disappear in the next few weeks or months.  Give it 3-6 month to see the real effects and the prices "tank".  It might be 25-30% drop by then.  Also a sad factor will be a fair few deceased in the Foreign quotas.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, 19DL86 said:

Yes I agree there to some of the valid points Newnative.  But you're again pointing towards the investment/speculation buyer.  For rental to the Chinese or Indian tourist if, or once they return. Correct?

 

This was nt what I picked up in your early threads. nor what was Mikes proposed purchase for.

 

Either way, we are very much in the primary stages to speculate, it's very early.  Also as all here seem to agree - this will not disappear in the next few weeks or months.  Give it 3-6 month to see the real effects and the prices "tank".  It might be 25-30% drop by then.  Also a sad factor will be a fair few deceased in the Foreign quotas.

       Yes, it's still very early days.  My partner and I don't buy to rent anymore.  We didn't like being landlords and when illegal daily rentals became popular, that was it for us.  We decided we preferred to buy a condo, renovate it, and sell it for a quick profit of 400,000 to 500,000 baht rather than wait years to earn that amount in rent.  I am a 'glass half-full' guy and I am hopeful things will eventually return to what will likely be a new normal--not just in Pattaya but around the World.  We still like living in Pattaya but are going to be content with just having the one condo we live in.  Down the road we may end up in a house with live-in help. 

      We finally made enough to buy 2 condos; one in Bangkok as a getaway place and one in Pattaya, with the plan to use them for ourselves and leisurely work on them the next couple of years while we did traveling this year.  We got the first part done--the condos bought--but the virus has dashed our plans to kick back and travel this year.   So, like so many others, our life is on hold.  

[Leaver]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

The turmoil might last 6 or 8 months more or a year or more, nobody knows.  At some point, though, the virus will be eventually stamped out, vaccines will be developed, and people will want to do things like travel again.  Good to remember that Thailand sits a fairly short plane ride from the 2 most populous countries in the World.

I agree.  This will pass, and tourists will return, it's just the length of time that is the unknown.  Somewhere around 6 to 12 months would be my guess, but that's for the virus to get under control, not for tourism to get back to normal.   

 

I agree with the member that basically said the tourists will not automatically flock back here.  For me, the reasons would be more economic, than safety.

 

As for the western tourists, it will be interesting what Pattaya's nightlife and hospitality scene will look like in 6 to 12 months.  Many places will simply not be operating, as landlords look for new tenants.  There could be a much needed market correction in relation to rents, but who knows.

 

There might be not much for westerners to come back to here, and Pattaya may have to build up a party resort reputation again.  Then, you have to consider western economies are being badly hit by this and those that save up all year for their holiday to Thailand will be using that money elsewhere, so will take a further 12 months for them to holiday here, making it around 18 months to 2 years before western tourists come back in any sort of numbers to rebuild a party resort atmosphere. 

 

Things will not get back to normal here for quite some time, and even when the lock down orders are lifted, you can expect to still see plenty of doors shut for the foreseeable future.