Hydroxychloroquine is useless

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

I will not be at all surprised if that sly old dog Trump is on this regimen already.

That's how he's able to stand on that podium without a mask and swat away

idiots like Acosta with alarming alacrity.

 

Mind you he's had a lot of practice.

Hopefully, "that sly old dog trump" has taken a load of these drugs and the world will be better off for it when he suffers the consequences.

 

So much stupidity, so many lies, so many misunderstandings, yet, yet....... yes he still has his supporters! Wonder why?

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by xylophone

[JHolmesJr]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

So much stupidity, so many lies, so many misunderstandings, yet, yet....... yes he still has his supporters!

 

I know right....it's amazing how loyal people can be to a leader who keeps the promises

he makes to them.

 

Unlike Mr. "If you like your plan  you can keep your plan". ????

 

[Jingthing]

Please people!
Partisan politics needs to be 100 percent divorced from the scientific examination of various ideas to treat Covid.

For a truly bizarre set of reasons "supporting" Hydroxychloroquine  has been linked to supporting the horribly divisive U.S. president and "opposing" it has been linked to his majority opposition (in the US and the world).

None of that should matter one bit!

 

The virus is not partisan. Medications are not partisan. Do the proper studies on this bizarrely politized med and all other potentially promising ones as well. No priority to one over another because the U.S. president hypes it. Yes speed things up as much as humanly possible. Then let the doctors, scientists, and evidence decide not freakin' politics!

 

Is that too much to ask for? Apparently it is.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Jingthing

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, idiot farang said:

Sincere question for you...

 

Given the dearth of alternate therapies, and given the decades of low risk profile of both drugs... if you were in a higher risk group (older, underlying conditions, etc) AND you were positive for the coronavirus, would you not take it?

 

From my reading, if you are in the group that decline quickly, waiting is (literally) a deadly choice. Alternatively, taking these 2 drugs is decidedly NOT a deadly choice. Several treating doctors have noted the the efficacy of the drug combo is much greater with early treatment. Anecdotal, sure. But time isn't on your side to wait for trials if you're in the situation I've laid out.

 

I genuinely cannot see where, confronted with such a reality, the phrase "what have you got to lose" is incorrect or reckless.

 

If the 2 drugs were very dangerous... ok, there is at least an argument. But we're talking about drugs with decades of use by billions of people. When there is no known cure and you're in a high risk group, it seems the decision to withhold (or even advise against their use) is irresponsible.

 

Chloroquine has some very serious side effects. It is not as safe as you seem to think.  And its risks would be greater in someone whose cardiopulmonary status is already compromised by COVID. It can in fact be deadly and its unnecessary use could easily do more harm than good.

 

All drugs have side effects. It is the purpose of clinical trials to determine (a) if something works and (b) if it does work, do its benefits outweigh the associated risks.

 

You cannot tell anything from anecdotal reports, especially with something like COVID which has such an unpredictable course. People suddenly improve for no discernable reason - -and likewise some worsen for no evident reason. There simply is nto a way to tell if something makes a difference exceot to do a proper scientific trial. Which is being done.

 

Note that there are at least as many small studies and anecdotal reports showing no benefit as showing that there is one. Which makes me suspect that if there does prove to be a statistical benefit, it won't be huge.

 

And no, given the information currently available, I would not take it solely on the basis of underlying risk factors and having COVID.  Plenty of people in the high risk groups do recover from COVID without treatment, and those same risk factors would put them at risk of adverse effects (and even death) from this medication. Until there is some evidence that there is a benefit that outweighs the risk, I would nto consider it unless my condition were seriously grave.

 

 

 

[ExpatOK]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Please people!
Partisan politics needs to be 100 percent divorced from the scientific examination of various ideas to treat Covid.

For a truly bizarre set of reasons "supporting" Hydroxychloroquine  has been linked to supporting the horribly divisive U.S. president and "opposing" it has been linked to his majority opposition (in the US and the world).

None of that should matter one bit!

 

The virus is not partisan. Medications are not partisan. Do the proper studies on this bizarrely politized med and all other potentially promising ones as well. No priority to one over another because the U.S. president hypes it. Yes speed things up as much as humanly possible. Then let the doctors, scientists, and evidence decide not freakin' politics!

 

Is that too much to ask for? Apparently it is.

So you criticize the OP for bringing politics into this and then you do the same thing! ???? ???? ????

[Lacessit]

Desperation is affecting many people in the COVID-19 era. Or, clutching at straws.

[Number 6]

Looking at body bags in NYC hospitals I'm gonna taa rain check on the herd immunity thing for six months or so.

[JHolmesJr]

16 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Please people!
Partisan politics needs to be 100 percent divorced from the scientific examination of various ideas to treat Covid.

For a truly bizarre set of reasons "supporting" Hydroxychloroquine  has been linked to supporting the horribly divisive U.S. president and "opposing" it has been linked to his majority opposition (in the US and the world).

None of that should matter one bit!

 

The virus is not partisan. Medications are not partisan. Do the proper studies on this bizarrely politized med and all other potentially promising ones as well. No priority to one over another because the U.S. president hypes it. Yes speed things up as much as humanly possible. Then let the doctors, scientists, and evidence decide not freakin' politics!

 

Is that too much to ask for? Apparently it is.

 

looks like the a-holes at cnn, nyt and MSNBC did not get this memo. ????

 

it is becoming clear that hydroxy... isn't for all patients....the doctor needs 

to keep it in the arsenal and decide based on the patients condition, progression

of the disease etc.

 

 

[dabhand]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:56 AM, Toosetinmyways said:

The other problem is that the only place that has the stocks that Trump wants is India and Modi has already said no deal. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/india-releases-hydroxychloroquine-stocks-amid-pressure-from-trump

 

 

[Oxx]

10 minutes ago, dabhand said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/07/india-releases-hydroxychloroquine-stocks-amid-pressure-from-trump

 

Jolly good.  India released a totally ineffectual medicine to America to appease a clueless moron.  Trump appears to be some sort of hero (at least in his own tiny mind), whilst Americans will die from taking the placebo.

[DrTuner]

Thai MoPH does have it in it's treatment guidelines, among a coctail of others:

 

https://ddc.moph.go.th/viralpneumonia/eng/file/guidelines/g_treatment.pdf

 

Quote

1. Mild case
With no risk, recommend symptomatic treatment (no need to give antiretroviral drug)

2. Mild case in high risk group with any of the following conditions; age >60 years,
lymphopenia, chronic pulmonary disease, chronic kidney disease, heart failure, obesity,
cirrhosis and any immunocompromised condition, recommend the following dual therapy
• Chloroquine (250 -500 mg) per day
• Lopinavir/Ritonavir (400/100) two times per day or alternative regimens such as
Darunavir/Ritonavir (900/100) once daily or Darunavir/Ritonavir (600/100) two
times per day. If infiltration is found on chest x-ray within 48 hours, add
Favipiravir, same as treatment of pneumonia case for 10 days.
•

 

3. Pneumonia case recommend three drugs combination including of
• Chloroquine (500-1000 mg) per day
• Favipiravir (200 mg) 8 tablets two times on Day1 then 3 tablets two times per day
from Day 2-10 or Favipiravir 60 mg/kg of bodyweight (in patient with BMI ≥35
kg/m2
).
• Lopinavir/Ritonavir (400/100) two times per day or alternative regimens
Darunavir/Ritonavir (900/100) once daily or Darunavir/Ritonavir (600/100) two
times per day.

 

[Oxx]

The parent organisation of the journal which published the original "successful" French trial of Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin (International Society of Antimicrobial Chemotherapy) has disowned the paper, stating "does not meet the ... expected standard, especially relating to the lack of better explanations of the inclusion criteria and the triage of patients to ensure patient safety".

 

https://www.isac.world/news-and-publications/official-isac-statement

 

There's a nice breakdown of the multiple inadequacies of the paper at https://scienceintegritydigest.com/2020/03/24/thoughts-on-the-gautret-et-al-paper-about-hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-treatment-of-covid-19-infections/

 

Perhaps most significant is that the paper did not include in its analysis 6 patients (out of 26) who received the drugs, including patients who had to be transferred to intensive care, and a patient who died.

 

[Tonyk629]

I’d be inclined to attack the opportunistic bacteria living in your lungs. Influenzas often lead to bacterial pneumonias. So to simplify- viras leads to bacterial pneumonia. the right antibiotics, may be A huge help

[tlandtday]

Big Pharma will do everything in its powers to derail any use of this or the recently touted ivermectin.  Imagine cheap therapies that cost pennies would not only cut into big pharma profits but would seriously embarrass them.  Many good treatments have been shunned or sidelined by big pharma and their cronies in the name of money.

[justin case]

let's say, you have it ... you are in hospital ... you are DROWNING with your own liquids

 

you would say no to the drug that SEEM to work by several scientific , no studies, but REAL patients in different places in the world ?

 

certain death or try the medicine that has been used for the last 70 years ???

 

6 days in stead of 30, no ventilator needed, 20$ POSSIBLE cure ?

[Laza 45]

But hey!.. he is making a KILLING on his shares... 

[justin case]

14 hours ago, Oxx said:

Jolly good.  India released a totally ineffectual medicine to America to appease a clueless moron.  Trump appears to be some sort of hero (at least in his own tiny mind), whilst Americans will die from taking the placebo.

 

do you, by any chance, work(ed) or have stocks in big pharma ?

 

the vaccine will save us ... there are 200+ diseases lined up for a vaccine to be made

 

will you take them all, blindly ?

 

how did humanity survive for tens of thousands of years without those pesky vaccines

 

[justin case]

7 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

But hey!.. he is making a KILLING on his shares... 

shares? in an indian company that almost did not want to send it anymore ?

 

lol

[justin case]

what I remember from the last couple of days/weeks is that

 

the media, owned by big pharma advertising

 

was repeating the 2 death dumb people that drunk fish tank cleaner, on the news, all over, with one purpose ...

 

trump never told people to go drink fish tank cleaner,  he spoke about the DRUG administered by an MD, not a chemical that sounded like ...

 

possible 20 USD$ drug to help fight corona or wait 18 months for a vaccine worth 400 BILLION USD$ profits a year

 

and we all know how vaccines are all "safe" and work so great, you have to get injected every single year... 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by justin case

[losworld]

16 minutes ago, justin case said:

let's say, you have it ... you are in hospital ... you are DROWNING with your own liquids

 

you would say no to the drug that SEEM to work by several scientific , no studies, but REAL patients in different places in the world ?

 

certain death or try the medicine that has been used for the last 70 years ???

 

6 days in stead of 30, no ventilator needed, 20$ POSSIBLE cure ?

and the med being used for the last 70 years for covid is????

[justin case]

4 minutes ago, losworld said:

and the med being used for the last 70 years for covid is????

if this is not TROLLING... known for malaria

 

now it is an orphan drug

 

which means, 20$ instead of 2000$ profits for big pharma

 

hence the need to DISCARD it with everything as this is a big cross over a 400 BILLION dollar profit a YEAR scam

 

but people cannot see that

[Oxx]

25 minutes ago, justin case said:

certain death or try the medicine that has been used for the last 70 years ???

Clearly one would be far better off taking aspirin.  It's been used for over 120 years, making it 71% better than chloroquine.

[Oxx]

16 minutes ago, justin case said:

do you, by any chance, work(ed) or have stocks in big pharma ?

 

No, but I do have a Ph.D. in medical science, though.

 

 

16 minutes ago, justin case said:

 

the vaccine will save us ... there are 200+ diseases lined up for a vaccine to be made

 

will you take them all, blindly ?

 

No.  Only ones related to diseases that reasonably I might catch.  Earlier this week I had my annual 'flu jab.  I wouldn't have a vaccination against yellow fever unless I intended visiting South America or central Africa.  As soon as they create suitable vaccines for dengue and chikungunya I'll be keen to take them.

 

16 minutes ago, justin case said:

 

how did humanity survive for tens of thousands of years without those pesky vaccines

 

By dying in the millions.  Polio used to cause 15,000 cases of paralysis and 1,900 deaths annually in the United States alone.  In the early 20th century Spanish Flu killed somewhere between 17 and 100 million people.  More recently Asian Flu killed 2 million.  Hong Kong Flu killed a million.  It has been estimated that Smallpox killed 500 million people in the 100 years to 1977.  Vaccinations are one of medical science's greatest achievements, and annually they save between 2 and 3 million lives.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

https://www.who.int/mediacentre/commentaries/vaccines/en/

[Laza 45]

58 minutes ago, justin case said:

shares? in an indian company that almost did not want to send it anymore ?

 

lol

...Not an Indian company..,. a French company.. Trump forced India to allow imports after they banned it..    Sanofi, the French drugmaker... try and get the facts right.. 

 

[justin case]

49 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

No, but I do have a Ph.D. in medical science, though.

 

 

 

No.  Only ones related to diseases that reasonably I might catch.  Earlier this week I had my annual 'flu jab.  I wouldn't have a vaccination against yellow fever unless I intended visiting South America or central Africa.  As soon as they create suitable vaccines for dengue and chikungunya I'll be keen to take them.

 

 

By dying in the millions.  Polio used to cause 15,000 cases of paralysis and 1,900 deaths annually in the United States alone.  In the early 20th century Spanish Flu killed somewhere between 17 and 100 million people.  More recently Asian Flu killed 2 million.  Hong Kong Flu killed a million.  It has been estimated that Smallpox killed 500 million people in the 100 years to 1977.  Vaccinations are one of medical science's greatest achievements, and annually they save between 2 and 3 million lives.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

https://www.who.int/mediacentre/commentaries/vaccines/en/

 

600.000 people die of the FLU each year, VACCINE or NOT

 

prove me that all the people that died, because of they did/not get a useless GAMBLE of big pharma from last year what they thought would be a success this year ?

 

family kills more people than the FLU, no vaccine needed for that one, CLEAN FOOD & water works pretty well, so I hear, says the scientific studies, as you don't feed a population with vaccines

[justin case]

23 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

...Not an Indian company..,. a French company.. Trump forced India to allow imports after they banned it..    Sanofi, the French drugmaker... try and get the facts right.. 

 

it is made, GENERIC = no need for EXPENSIVE BRANDS MARKUP ,in INDIA

 

any company could make it, if they have the knowledge & equipment

 

because the PATENT has expired, aka, cannot ask whatever you want anymore, so time for new SCARES,   swine flu of 197x and a recent one this century ?  

 

remember AIDS, everybody was supposed to have family member by now with AIDS

 

SARS, MERS, ZIKA ?

 

scare people, scare governments, to give up some BASIC RIGHTS, lockdowns, etc...

 

26.000 people die on the roads, every year.. lockdown ?

 

how many because of alcohol & cigarettes ?  lockdown ?

 

600.000 world wide of flu ... 

 

pretty sure most the deaths right now, is :  when hospitals cry CORONA, they will get more funds

 

people that died of other diseases, already on a few drugs, on their way to death, oh, let's label this as corona, if that was the cause or not ...

 

the news in the USA is controlled by big pharma and now it is a constant fear mongering

 

[transam]

Would have thought anything is worth a try instead of dying..

[JHolmesJr]

HC just saved the life of a Michigan democrat congresswoman....yet its still

bad for the Dems.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491612-democratic-state-rep-thanks-trump-and-hydroxychloroquine-for-recovery

 

The sad truth is that Dems just want to make trump look bad....and right now it's by obstructing anything that

might reduce the fatality rate of Wuhan Virus.

 

These evil people would rather have people die in the hundreds of thousands rather than get behind

the president...treasonous traitors.

[Oxx]

9 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

HC just saved the life of a Michigan democrat congresswoman

 

No it didn't.  This is purely anecdotal.  The fact that she claimed that a mere 2 hours after taking the drug makes her assertion utterly unreliable.

 

The woman is driven by political ideology and praises the manchild who is responsible for the US' atrocious response to the virus clearly suggests that her word is not to be trusted.

 

As for "make trump look bad", that doesn't need the Democrats.  He's doing a perfectly good (or rather, utterly incompetent) job on his own.

 

Let me repeat:  there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that chloroquine and its derivatives can kill the virus:  it's simply not an antiviral drug and is devoid of a plausible mechanism to do so.  There are, however, antiviral drugs which have a decent chance of defeating the virus, but Trump would rather trust his groundless "hunch" than bother to try to understand the science and promote something that actually might be effective.

 

[UbonThani]

50 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

No it didn't.  This is purely anecdotal.  The fact that she claimed that a mere 2 hours after taking the drug makes her assertion utterly unreliable.

 

The woman is driven by political ideology and praises the manchild who is responsible for the US' atrocious response to the virus clearly suggests that her word is not to be trusted.

 

As for "make trump look bad", that doesn't need the Democrats.  He's doing a perfectly good (or rather, utterly incompetent) job on his own.

 

Let me repeat:  there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that chloroquine and its derivatives can kill the virus:  it's simply not an antiviral drug and is devoid of a plausible mechanism to do so.  There are, however, antiviral drugs which have a decent chance of defeating the virus, but Trump would rather trust his groundless "hunch" than bother to try to understand the science and promote something that actually might be effective.

 

You fail to understand the science here. It doesnt kill the virus. Your immune system does. It slows your response so you dont kill yourself by immume overeaction and allows a pathway for zinc into the cells to kill the virus.

 

That's why it works for some people.