RE: Uncle Sam's generous handout. Am I still eligible?

[khaepmu]

A. I filed my taxes for the 2018 tax year as a joint account with my Thai wife who has an ITIN number. Used my Thai address on the form. 

 

B. I have completed my 2019 tax year return with turbo tax and tried to e-file but IRS would not accept my e-file return. Tried again but no go. Turbotax said that this is quite normal. Just file by regular mail they said. I saved printed and my return but have yet to send it to the IRS. As with my 2018 return, it is a joint return with my Thai wife who has an ITIN number. Again, I used my Thai address on the return. I am retired and the wife is unemployed. 

 

C. So, I think I will do the return again but this time not as a joint return with my Thai wife. And then use my US mailing address. Whether I file jointly or not, Turbo tax calculated that I own no taxes. I am wondering is using my US address is in any way fraudulent. It is the address I use for my US bank and brokerage accounts. 

 

It seems that, from reading other posts,  if you file a joint account with someone using an ITIN number you are not eligible for the governement check. (Can't really understand why). And, if I haven't filed my tax return with the IRS for 2019 they my just use my return for the 2018 tax year which has my Thai address and my wife's ITIN number. 

 

I might try to file on the IRS free online lookup that I found on this site but I sold a stock and have some capital gains with  my other mutual funds. Not much though and don't own any taxes. I think you can't use this site if you have income from stock and bond investments but I could be wrong.

 

C. My social security check is paid into my American bank every month. Direct payment. 

 

I am wondering is I can somehow make myself eligible for the check under these circumstances. Any comments?

 

 

[bkk6060]

With everything you posted I would say No, you are not getting a check.

And, living here you probably don't deserve one.

[sqwakvfr]

Directly from IRS.GOV:

 

Here is what you need to know about your Economic Impact Payment. For most taxpayers, payments are automatic, and no further action is needed. This includes taxpayers who filed tax returns in 2018 and 2019 and most seniors and retirees.

Use tab to go to the next focusable element

Who is eligible?

U.S. residents will receive the Economic Impact Payment of $1,200 for individual or head of household filers, and $2,400 for married filing jointly if they are not a dependent of another taxpayer and have a work eligible Social Security number with adjusted gross income up to:

• $75,000 for individuals
• $112,500 for head of household filers and
• $150,000 for married couples filing joint returns

Taxpayers will receive a reduced payment if their AGI is between:

• $75,000 and $99,000 if their filing status was single or married filing separately
• 112,500 and $136,500 for head of household
• $150,000 and $198,000 if their filing status was married filing jointly

The amount of the reduced payment will be based upon the taxpayers specific adjusted gross income.

Eligible retirees and recipients of Social Security, Railroad Retirement, disability or veterans' benefits as well as taxpayers who do not make enough money to normally have to file a tax return will receive a payment. This also includes those who have no income, as well as those whose income comes entirely from certain benefit programs, such as Supplemental Security Income benefits.

Retirees who receive either Social Security retirement or Railroad Retirement benefits will also receive payments automatically.

 

On one hand the IRS states “US Residents”.  I interpret this to mean if one puts a foreign address on IRS Form 1040 then he or she would not be eligible.  On the other hand it states Social Security Income recipients are eligible?  If the IRS or SSA has you checking account routing and account #’s you might get the money this month?

 

Best answer I can find as of now.

[Berkshire]

50 minutes ago, khaepmu said:

B. I have completed my 2019 tax year return with turbo tax and tried to e-file but IRS would not accept my e-file return. Tried again but no go. Turbotax said that this is quite normal.

I found this a bit odd.  I filed with TurboTax back in Feb and my return was accepted by the IRS almost immediately.  Within a week or two, they sent me my refund.  Just wondering why yours was rejected.  Did you have some major changes in your return?

 

As for getting the bailout money, since you're receiving SS money into your US account, you should be eligible. 

[khaepmu]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

With everything you posted I would say No, you are not getting a check.

And, living here you probably don't deserve one.

Why don't I deserve one? Despite living overseas, I easily spend thousands of dollars when I travel back to the States, not to mention all of the things I buy from the USA online. I also invest in US companies through the mutual funds iIbuy. 

[khaepmu]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

I found this a bit odd.  I filed with TurboTax back in Feb and my return was accepted by the IRS almost immediately.  Within a week or two, they sent me my refund.  Just wondering why yours was rejected.  Did you have some major changes in your return?

 

As for getting the bailout money, since you're receiving SS money into your US account, you should be eligible. 

Not sure why it was rejected. I didn't put my AGI (adjusted gross income I think) on my first attempt. When it was rejected by the IRS turbo tax told me to include my AGI from the 2018 return.on the next attempt. I did but it was still rejected. Turbo tax just said it is not unusual. Maybe because it is a joint account with my Thai wife and her ITIN number.  t

[Langsuan Man]

17 minutes ago, khaepmu said:

Why don't I deserve one?

It's in the name, a stimulus for the US economy, not the Thai economy, and what you spend in the US on vacations, online ordering, and buying US equities,  doesn't help the US economy NOW

 

You chose to live in Thailand so don't complain about what your are missing by not living in the US, and I am sure that what you save by living here is much more than a one time stimulus check 

[khaepmu]

3 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

It's in the name, a stimulus for the US economy, not the Thai economy, and what you spend in the US on vacations, online ordering, and buying US equities,  doesn't help the US economy NOW

 

You chose to live in Thailand so don't complain about what your are missing by not living in the US, and I am sure that what you save by living here is much more than a one time stimulus check 

I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. Buying American products online and having them shipped to Thailand is as much a stimulus for the American economy as having them shipped to an American address. And when I travel to the USA, once it is advisable and safe to travel again, I will use American carriers, and stay in American hotels, eat in American restaurants, use American car rental agencies, shop in American supermarkets. I also buy a lots of American products in Thai shops and supermarkets despite the stiff tariffs. I am a true patriot. I even bought a box of Cheerios and some imported American almonds and a bottle of California Red, at incredible expense, in Foodland.

"Make America Great Again". Send those stimulus checks to expats in Thailand. And reduce those tariffs on American wine.

[cmarshall]

29 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

It's in the name, a stimulus for the US economy, not the Thai economy, and what you spend in the US on vacations, online ordering, and buying US equities,  doesn't help the US economy NOW

 

You chose to live in Thailand so don't complain about what your are missing by not living in the US, and I am sure that what you save by living here is much more than a one time stimulus check 

Although the administration likes to refer to the payments as "stimulus" they are actually disaster relief monies since the effect will be to mitigate losses caused by the shutdown.  The economy can hardly be stimulated when the government has ordered it to be shutdown.  

 

Residence in the US is not a condition to receive such payments for US citizens.  Many of us expats have suffered loss of income from the economic shutdown.  And we do pay taxes.

 

Your opinion just reflects a prejudice that expats are somehow no longer fully citizens.

[cmarshall]

The OP is fully entitled to use a US address on his tax return since the return calls for a mailing address, not the physical address.  Turbotax makes this clear by accepting a US address even after you have checked the living abroad box.

[Why Me]

I am not going to hold my breath for the stimulus check. My 1040 home address is here, and I file the 2555 for foreign earned income exception declaring 330 days abroad.

 

So, I won't argue if they say I am a non-resident. Neither will I argue if they say that giving it to me won't serve the stated purpose, which is to get cash in the hands of those who will go right out and spend it in US shops, restaurants and businesses.

 

But, hey, I am open to a pleasant surprise.

[taxout]

Relax!

 

As we've said again and again, if you want to know what the rules are, go to the source. In this case, Sec. 2201 of P.L. 116-136, creating new Sec. 6428 of the Internal Revenue Code. And there's nothing there that would prevent a U.S. citizen resident overseas from receiving the payment.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748/text

[Inn Between]

I'm sure all gov'ts are hoping that the number of their citizens who try exploiting any hardship and stimulus payments when they are not residing there or not really in need will be low. Hopefully gov'ts will be vigilant in confirming before paying. All the extra money paid through dishonest or unnecessary claims will only slow down the rebuilding of economies and unfairly cause more suffering for those who don't deserve it.  

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Inn Between

[taxout]

If your income is too high, you won't be getting a U.S. stimulus payment, but that's true for any U.S. citizen, whether residing inside or outside the U.S.

[Jingthing]

My attitude is that expats are not excluded.

I wouldn't try to scam a check if I was excluded, but again, expats are not excluded.

So getting the check is fine. A huge percentage need it less than me and for being excluded from using Medicare abroad considering I paid into it, I reckon they really should be sending expats a 100.00 dollar check. 

[timendres]

1 hour ago, taxout said:

Relax!

 

As we've said again and again, if you want to know what the rules are, go to the source. In this case, Sec. 2201 of P.L. 116-136, creating new Sec. 6428 of the Internal Revenue Code. And there's nothing there that would prevent a U.S. citizen resident overseas from receiving the payment.

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/748/text

Awesome link, which shows the following:

 

Quote

 

“SEC. 6428. 2020 RECOVERY REBATES FOR INDIVIDUALS. paragraph (d)

“(d) Eligible Individual.—For purposes of this section, the term ‘eligible individual’ means any individual other than—

“(1) any nonresident alien individual,

 

 

Looks like expats are not eligible.

Edited April 9, 2020 by timendres

[taxout]

Honestly, this is one of the reasons I'm reluctant to even post here: because you can be absolutely certain someone's going to start raising questions because they do not or can not understand the plain language of the law. Then we waste time going around in circles.

 

The quoted exception is for non-resident ALIEN individuals. ALIENS, as in NON-U.S. CITIZENS. That's what "ALIEN" means in the IRC.

 

If someone still doesn't get it, I'll let others here deal with them.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by taxout

[ChouDoufu]

20 hours ago, khaepmu said:

Not sure why it was rejected. I didn't put my AGI (adjusted gross income I think) on my first attempt. When it was rejected by the IRS turbo tax told me to include my AGI from the 2018 return.on the next attempt. I did but it was still rejected. Turbo tax just said it is not unusual. Maybe because it is a joint account with my Thai wife and her ITIN number.  t

just add your direct deposit information in the refund section of the tax return you're fixing to send in.

 

stimulus checks go out by bank transfer if they have that info, or if they have it in your social security files.

 

failing those, a check can be mailed to the address on your tax return, but reports are that could take 4-5 months to get through the backlog.

 

otherwise, the irs is working on a web portal where you can enter your bank information for direct deposit.  supposed to be online within a couple weeks.

[meechai]

2 hours ago, timendres said:

Looks like expats are not eligible.

I think your confusing "alien individual," with a US Citizen

Quote

“(1) any nonresident alien individual,

 

Alien means not a US citizen & yes of course aliens will not get a US stimulus anymore than you will

get the 5000 baht Thai stimulus

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by meechai

[meechai]

23 hours ago, khaepmu said:

My social security check is paid into my American bank every month. Direct payment. 

If you have direct deposit SS then that is where your stimulus check will be direct deposited to

 

As long as your not over income limits & by what you said in your first post I say you have no worries

 

[sirineou]

"No Taxes, But Social Security: If you don’t file taxes, but you receive Social Security benefits, you don’t have to file any taxes to qualify. You’ll automatically receive a stimulus check. "

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2020/04/09/stimulus-check-dates/#6293ecc5588c

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

just add your direct deposit information in the refund section of the tax return you're fixing to send in.

 

Fixing to?  You must have grown up in the South?

[cmarshall]

  Quote

 

“SEC. 6428. 2020 RECOVERY REBATES FOR INDIVIDUALS. paragraph (d)

“(d) Eligible Individual.—For purposes of this section, the term ‘eligible individual’ means any individual other than—

“(1) any nonresident alien individual,

 

 

Looks like expats are not eligible.

 

Looks like reading comprehension not your strong suit.

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

“(1) any nonresident alien individual,

A US citizen is not a non resident alien.

If you are a citizen it doesn't matter where you are living.

[cmarshall]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

A US citizen is not a non resident alien.

If you are a citizen it doesn't matter where you are living.

Of course, a US citizen is not an alien.  I was pointing out the prior misreading that US expats are not eligible for the relief payment.

[timendres]

6 hours ago, meechai said:

9 hours ago, timendres said:

Looks like expats are not eligible.

I think your confusing "alien individual," with a US Citizen

Oh, right. A case where I am so happy to be wrong.

[ChouDoufu]

5 hours ago, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

Fixing to?  You must have grown up in the South?

ya reckon?

[Jingthing]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

My attitude is that expats are not excluded.

I wouldn't try to scam a check if I was excluded, but again, expats are not excluded.

So getting the check is fine. A huge percentage need it less than me and for being excluded from using Medicare abroad considering I paid into it, I reckon they really should be sending expats a 100.00 dollar check. 

I meant 100 thousand dollars and for most that would be an underpayment. 

[Pib]

If below 9 Apr 2020 news report is accurate the US Treasury will begin "pinging" (so to speak) peoples' direct deposit bank accts on 10 April/Friday....that is, send an ACH request to confirm it's still a valid bank acct with your name on it.  And then if getting the right response begin stimulus direct deposit payments next week.  

 

Also talks the launch later this month (i.e., April) of the  portal for a person to provide direct deposit info.  

 

See below weblink for full article....I included a partial quote of key paragraphs. 

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/09/treasury-expected-to-get-started-on-stimulus-payments-friday-178683

Quote

 

The Treasury Department on Friday is expected to take the first step in getting economic stimulus payments to millions of Americans, who will get access to the money next week if they have direct deposit bank accounts, according to financial industry sources.

Paper checks for people without direct deposit would start going out early next month, though some could take up to five months to reach recipients and there are still unanswered questions about how banks will handle some of them.

 

The initial step involves clearing the payments that will be directly deposited, with banks expecting a Treasury Department transmission Friday to confirm the money will reach the right accounts. On Monday, the IRS would begin processing the payments — up to $1,200 for individuals, $2,400 for couples and an extra $500 for children — and the direct deposits would hit people's bank accounts on Wednesday........

The IRS is working to get paper checks, beginning the first week of May, to the estimated 100 million Americans who don’t have direct deposit, the industry sources said. Some 5 million checks will be mailed weekly over 20 weeks.

 

Hoping to expedite more payments, the agency is expected to announce Friday that it will launch an online application later this month, called "Get My Payment," that will allow taxpayers who filed tax returns in 2018 or 2019 to submit direct deposit information if they didn't provide it on their returns.