The Mismanagement Of COVID 19

[rvaviator]

6 hours ago, chessman said:

Since 1900,  life expectancy in the world has doubled. How? Because of doctors and scientists, because of education, because of places of learning where people can gather and share information. Because of a rational type of scientific thinking.

 

Dismissing that because you once met a silly woman with an MBA is not very smart.

One could also ask the question regarding his qualification for making that statement in the first place ... Something about a kettle being black and all that ... 555 ????

 

[Mulambana]

7 hours ago, johno49 said:

it is a totally riduclous situation we find ourselves in and I urge governments to stop this now.

Tom (truck driver), Dick (plumber) and Harry (brick layer) who have recently turned into virologists and epidemiologists are requesting governments by posting in the forum where 80% people show full range of DUnning-Krugger syndrome.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Mulambana

[AussieBob18]

15 hours ago, chessman said:

Flat out manipulating quotes and information. Shameful. 

Straight from New York Times - and yes they are shameful.

[AussieBob18]

14 hours ago, Mulambana said:

Tom (truck driver), Dick (plumber) and Harry (brick layer) who have recently turned into virologists and epidemiologists are requesting governments by posting in the forum where 80% people show full range of DUnning-Krugger syndrome.

The vast majority of people diagnosed with Dunning-Krugger syndrome are over educated idiots who became experts.  But that is not the really sad part of your post obviously means to insult those criticising the Covid experts.  Imagine living your life and only ever doing what the experts say to do and only think what the experts tell you to think. Now that is sad.  Always wanting to be protected and told what to do - and always able to blame someone else. I can remember being that young.  Long long time ago.  I see millennials like that all the time. 30 year old pre-teenagers.

[AussieBob18]

14 hours ago, rvaviator said:

One could also ask the question regarding his qualification for making that statement in the first place ... Something about a kettle being black and all that ... 555 ????

 

Ditto my last post. Imagine being someone that when someone yells at them to 'duck' they demand to know that person's qualifications to state that - as the falling object hits their stupid head.

[AussieBob18]

OK then - that seems to have shut them up and made them go away.

 

So here for the rational and reasonable and the non-sheeple is this:

 

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=347e51990df80f3e9947d8c912292bdf4d0993c8-1585316112-0-AZTuoAlXcADhMEWNatVJFkDj2XvXM5Lme97CPVmC-Wr1_-g9sVxxDBnFGifXH8NnsO83gxiyn4SWUW6BQtSMnR5YYJkfyF3bPah2XtutnU3O-ex4Vwv3RSGNfunGc9KdVvmAWfUNqZXyaC8MRckootFCVCbclKLf5KS2HTyqPD8xCvpE3PE4IQ4F106rCThKVwbrID7GBqJG6ylLOFjNNCMp-iLoQHR5tNS6-Q9usAGmrdzxWvs2b5BaVULCUVhZUKNbjhg0bYUkPtob-LahJ45quzVbKAgkUn0qbl_mofE6fIBWmU6iHOqD0L3Fo1zb6Vr8GwMgEaVcJd8NvrJV1AsXWG871s6-rrivRnsktklG

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by AussieBob18

[chessman]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Imagine living your life and only ever doing what the experts say to do and only think what the experts tell you to think. Now that is sad. 

Or you can look at history, at the great cholera epidemics of the 19th century. There were all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories about it. Riots in some places because people didn’t believe the authorities. But science carried on, a guy called John Snow, a scientist, was sure it was carried by water. He did research and we learned exactly how it was spread. The experts got it right and found the ‘solutions’.

 

you can scoff at the Dunning Kruger Effect but can’t you see how it applies to you. You seem even more sure of your correctness than the contrarian scientists whose ideas you support.

[UbonThani]

17 hours ago, Lacessit said:

137 on my last test. If you are better than that, you certainly are not exhibiting it here.

I'm in reasonably good shape for my age. I'm not sure why you would think fitness and strength are substitutes for wit and intelligence.

You keep projecting. It's quite obvious why. Plain for all to see.

[UbonThani]

17 hours ago, chessman said:

Game of chess?

Yeah why not. Maths quiz. Game of golf. Happy for any challenge. I don't shy away from challenges.

[chessman]

3 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

Yeah why not. Maths quiz. Game of golf. Happy for any challenge. I don't shy away from challenges.

Name your chess platform. I prefer lichess but am happy to use a different platform.

[crobe]

4 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

Yeah why not. Maths quiz. Game of golf. Happy for any challenge. I don't shy away from challenges.

UbonThani and AussieBob

Put their IQs together and you still would not get into 3 figures

" Go away with you Mr Fleming, we have no use for you damn scientists and your penicillin"

 

[AussieBob18]

8 minutes ago, chessman said:

Or you can look at history, at the great cholera epidemics of the 19th century. There were all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories about it. Riots in some places because people didn’t believe the authorities. But science carried on, a guy called John Snow, a scientist, was sure it was carried by water. He did research and we learned exactly how it was spread. The experts got it right and found the ‘solutions’.

you can scoff at the Dunning Kruger Effect but can’t you see how it applies to you. You seem even more sure of your correctness than the contrarian scientists whose ideas you support.

It is easy to quote the experts that agree with you - like I did. But I only did that to show that there are experts who do not agree with the mainstream experts - people claimed all the experts said the virus is deadly and the lockdown was needed to save millions of lives.

 

No - your story about John Snow is wrong . You have missed the point - because you are thinking and seeing things from the now perspective.  When John Snow had his theory, all the experts said he was wrong - he was an absolute minority of 1. The same applies to many scientific discoveries - those that go against the 'mainstream' are more often than not the ones that make the changes in the world. Einstein, Newton, Galilee, are just a few of the thousands who went against the mainstream of their time and changed the world for the better - then they and those that follow them become experts - until somone later challenges them and is proven to be correct.  All things change in time - today's facts are tomorrows failures.

 

When we are having our discussions I am not saying to you that I am absolutely correct in everything that I say, or that you are absolutely wrong in everything that you say. But I do state that any claim that 'experts' are right because they are experts, and that they are responsible for all mankind's advancements, goes against history and is patently false. 

 

And I am also saying that to accept what the experts are saying about Covid and the lockdown (or anything), does not mean I am wrong.  I could be right and I could be wrong. But I am not wrong just because most 'experts' say different - and I am not right because one experts says what I agree with.

 

[UbonThani]

5 minutes ago, crobe said:

UbonThani and AussieBob

Put their IQs together and you still would not get into 3 figures

" Go away with you Mr Fleming, we have no use for you damn scientists and your penicillin"

 

People who say stuff like that are only projecting their own insecurities.

 

So thanks for letting us know.

[crobe]

Just now, UbonThani said:

People who say stuff like that are only projecting their own insecurities.

 

So thanks for letting us know.

And every post you project your stupidity

Go back to the US, I am sure that you will live a short and unhappy life there

Why you MAGA hypocrites who hate immigrants are here in the first place I don't know

[xylophone]

Topic is Mismanagement of Covid-19 and here are a few examples of how it was mismanaged....

 

1). On January 10^th Former White House homeland security adviser Tom Bossert, who was ousted by President Donald Trump in 2018, warns in a tweet: "We face a global health threat ... Coordinate!"

 

2). On January 18^th Health and Human Services (HSS) Secretary Alex Azar makes the first call to Trump about the virus. (Data reveals: 430,000 have travelled from China to US).

 

3). At a press conference on January 14, Maria Van Kerhkove, the American epidemiologist who heads the WHO's emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, told reporters there was "the possibility of human-to-human transmission between people" and "there's also the possibility of super-spreading events" so some countries put their prearranged plans into action……..this whilst the US floundered, with the president calling it a flu, and that it would “miraculously disappear”.

 

4). Alert bulletins were circulated through confidential channels around Thanksgiving (November 26) and from then through December, briefings were given to all levels of the US federal government and intelligence agencies.

The news eventually filtered its way through to President Donald Trump's Daily Brief in early January, the ABC reported.

Donald Trump may not have been expecting this, but a lot of other people in the government were — they just couldn't get him to do anything about it," one official told the Post last month. "The system was blinking red."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12323882

 

5). A week after the first coronavirus case had been identified in the United States, and six long weeks before President Trump finally took aggressive action to confront the danger the nation was facing — a pandemic that is now forecast to take tens of thousands of American lives — Dr. Mecher was urging the upper ranks of the nation’s public health bureaucracy to wake up and prepare for the possibility of far more drastic action.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/us/politics/coronavirus-trump-response.html 

 

6). "In Trump, alas, the US has a man renowned for intellectual incontinence, rather than discipline. His plans to fight this pandemic vary from hour to hour, minute to minute. He has all the focus of a moth. It'll miraculously disappear, I mean it's a mild flu, I mean it's serious, I mean reopen the country, I mean don't reopen the country, I mean yes reopen the country, I mean I have absolute authorit,y I mean the governors will do it".

 

All of this is proven and out there for all to see and verify, but the astounding thing is that trump supporters, cannot or will not admit that their beloved half-wit is in fact.....a half-wit! It is plain and simple and not too hard to understand......or is it for some?

 

 

 

[chessman]

21 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

No - your story about John Snow is wrong . You have missed the point - because you are thinking and seeing things from the now perspective.  When John Snow had his theory, all the experts said he was wrong - he was an absolute minority of 1. The same applies to many scientific discoveries - those that go against the 'mainstream' are more often than not the ones that make the changes in the world. Einstein, Newton, Galilee, are just a few of the thousands who went against the mainstream of their time and changed the world for the better - then they and those that follow them become experts - until somone later challenges them and is proven to be correct.  All things change in time - today's facts are tomorrows failures.

You miss the point. Many people in this thread are criticising experts. You were liking all their posts! I gave an example of an expert who was correct. A man who used scientific thinking to save lives. A guy in this thread earlier thought that hygiene instead of science was responsible for improved life expectancy!!! As if the two are not linked.

 

of course there should be competing plans and theories to do with Covid 19. There are still many unknowns. But nobody should be as sure as you seem to be that you are correct and the response of nearly every country in the world is wrong.

[chessman]

32 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

And I am also saying that to accept what the experts are saying about Covid and the lockdown (or anything), does not mean I am wrong.  I could be right and I could be wrong. But I am not wrong just because most 'experts' say different - and I am not right because one experts says what I agree with.

Fair enough - I agree. 
 

unlike some others here, you’ve clearly thought about this situation a lot. But then why deliberately misrepresent that New York Times article?

[AussieBob18]

17 minutes ago, chessman said:

You miss the point. Many people in this thread are criticising experts. You were liking all their posts! I gave an example of an expert who was correct. A man who used scientific thinking to save lives. A guy in this thread earlier thought that hygiene instead of science was responsible for improved life expectancy!!! As if the two are not linked.

 

of course there should be competing plans and theories to do with Covid 19. There are still many unknowns. But nobody should be as sure as you seem to be that you are correct and the response of nearly every country in the world is wrong.

Obtuse thinking buddy - as I said before lets agree to disagree - time will tell which experts are right and which are wrong.

 

[AussieBob18]

15 minutes ago, chessman said:

Fair enough - I agree. 
unlike some others here, you’ve clearly thought about this situation a lot. But then why deliberately misrepresent that New York Times article?

OK then - we have an agreement.

 

Misrepresent - or did I just quote the exact words spoken by the health authority person.

 

Sure - I disagreed with the context and aim of the article - but the words spoken are quoted by NYT - I just didnt use them as some sort of justification for counting dead bodies like thew NYT did.  Come on mate - 'deaths due to the hospitals being overworked' or words to that effect. 

[chessman]

6 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

OK then - we have an agreement.

 

Misrepresent - or did I just quote the exact words spoken by the health authority person.

 

Sure - I disagreed with the context and aim of the article - but the words spoken are quoted by NYT - I just didnt use them as some sort of justification for counting dead bodies like thew NYT did.  Come on mate - 'deaths due to the hospitals being overworked' or words to that effect. 

But you know enough to know that it is true that it is very likely that the deaths are being under-reported. So posting articles and then suggesting there is a conspiracy theory to increase the death toll is misrepresenting what is happening. I think you know better, some posting on here clearly don’t.

[chessman]

15 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

time will tell which experts are right and which are wrong.

I fear you’ve convinced yourself that the experts on the other side were saying there would be 4 billion cases and 200 million deaths and when the numbers are lower than that (as they will be) you will count yourself as correct.

[Matzzon]

On 4/17/2020 at 8:26 AM, johno49 said:

I urge governments to stop this now

Yep! Now they really heard you. And that is coming from a person that believes he can tell others how to do. Really?

[Rancid]

On 4/17/2020 at 4:55 PM, chessman said:

Are you going to sign this and send it to world leaders? Don't forget to add your relevant academic credentials so it carries more weight.

There are at least 30 preeminent experts that agree with the OPs synopsis. There is divided opinion, many TV experts are on the payroll, and many government ones wanting funding, politically lock down was seen as a better solution, however when we get handed the bill suspect many will then disagree.

[chessman]

3 hours ago, Rancid said:

There are at least 30 preeminent experts that agree with the OPs synopsis. There is divided opinion, many TV experts are on the payroll, and many government ones wanting funding, politically lock down was seen as a better solution,

And there are many more on the other side. Of course you think all the experts who are on the other side are corrupt. If that’s what you are being told, question that. Do you think it’s the same with climate change? Right wing media will try to tell you it’s a divided issue and the ones who think climate change is real are all corrupt. Do some independent research.

 

it’s a hugely complex issue and we’re all blind to a certain extent. In such a case, do you not think it’s good that governments are cautious and try to keep as many alive as possible? The economy will suffer hugely whatever we do - Those that tell you we need to choose between life and the economy are giving you a false choice.
 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:26 PM, johno49 said:

however the virus should have been allowed to run it’s course without the government ordered lockdowns and distancing rules.

Those that took the view that isolation is best for themselves or wearing a mask etc. should of course done just that, the rest of the population should just get on with it and go about your business as usual.

Stop talking sense!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, chessman said:

And there are many more on the other side. Of course you think all the experts who are on the other side are corrupt. If that’s what you are being told, question that. Do you think it’s the same with climate change? Right wing media will try to tell you it’s a divided issue and the ones who think climate change is real are all corrupt. Do some independent research.

 

it’s a hugely complex issue and we’re all blind to a certain extent. In such a case, do you not think it’s good that governments are cautious and try to keep as many alive as possible? The economy will suffer hugely whatever we do - Those that tell you we need to choose between life and the economy are giving you a false choice.
 

 

IMO everyone that wants lockdowns are willing to consign multi millions to poverty. Just remember that during the ( IMO ) depression that is coming.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, chessman said:

A guy in this thread earlier thought that hygiene instead of science was responsible for improved life expectancy!!!

Florence Nightingale was a pioneer in using hygiene to save lives. She was not a scientist. She used common sense and observation to come to her conclusions.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, xylophone said:

"In Trump, alas, the US has a man renowned for intellectual incontinence, rather than discipline.

You don't help your case by such juvenile insults. If that's your standard of debate why should we even read what you say?

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't help your case by such juvenile insults. If that's your standard of debate why should we even read what you say?

trump: "It'll miraculously disappear, I mean it's a mild flu, I mean it's serious, I mean reopen the country, I mean don't reopen the country, I mean yes reopen the country, I mean I have absolute authority, I mean the governors will do it."

 

The trouble is that it is true, and seeing him try to read from a script is painful, and like most of his supporters, the truth hurts and they don't like it.....so do what they do and ignore the truth!

 

By the way, the quote was from a NY Times article!!! ????

 

Oh and I suppose that stating, "you can grab them by the pussy, do anything with them", is not juvenile??????

 

 

[chessman]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Florence Nightingale was a pioneer in using hygiene to save lives. She was not a scientist. She used common sense and observation to come to her conclusions.

Do a little more research into her life. If you told her that we don’t need science or research or education she would have been horrified.