Electric vehicles looking better and better

[jmccarty]

If they can work out a way to make the batteries environmentally friendly,  I am liking the look of this: Clear air is cool!

[AussieBob18]

What? I see nothing to look at. Missing link?  Is it a Tesla?

[Crossy]

The batteries themselves are highly recyclable, which is great. Even if not recycled they can find a second life in non-mobile applications such as solar walls.

 

If a practical Fortuner sized vehicle with a sensible range say 300km or so for slightly more than a current top-end Fortuner came along I would be in the line.

 

 

[AussieBob18]

Just now, Crossy said:

The batteries themselves are highly recyclable, which is great. Even if not recycled they can find a second life in non-mobile applications such as solar walls.

If a practical Fortuner sized vehicle with a sensible range say 300km or so for slightly more than a current top-end Fortuner came along I would be in the line.

The problem is that there will be nothing like that for a long time - unless the Govts stop wasting tax money on 'green energy' and start making a real difference - get the main air polluters off the roads. Tax incentives for making, selling, buying electric cars. Govt sponsorships for building man sites and distribution etc. Free registration. Reduced insurance. Building re-charge facilities everywhere and making it free. etc etc etc.

[AndyAndyAndy]

If you check the stats, government & global companies are responsible for 95% of world pollution.

 

Even if all the people on the world would drive electric cars, were sorting out trash, responsibly recycled batteries and didn't pour old motor oil down the drain the difference would be exactly zero. Basically what you do doesn't matter and you have no impact on anything.

[Justgrazing]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

The batteries themselves are highly recyclable, which is great. Even if not recycled they can find a second life in non-mobile applications such as solar walls.

 

If a practical Fortuner sized vehicle with a sensible range say 300km or so for slightly more than a current top-end Fortuner came along I would be in the line.

 

 

Choice at the mo' on that class of vehicle is limited .. The two that spring to mind are :-

Jaguar I-Pace which has a max theoretical range of about 290 miles though start from £63k in Britain .. 

Similarly Audi's E-Tron has a range touted at 250'ish ( miles ) but is even more expensive ..

There is a recharge time issue .. A lot of manufacturers fit big batteries to help achieve these ranges but these take a long time recharging on minimal domestic power draw with a lot of domestic dwelling electrics not designed to uphold higher draw fast charging .. To then take advantage of a car's fast charging capability you must upgrade the house with a dedicated charge point that can supply the charge procedure faster .. Public fast charge points do the job as the name suggests but come at a price for using them .. 

[VocalNeal]

3 minutes ago, Justgrazing said:

The two that spring to mind are :-

Jaguar I-Pace which has a max theoretical range of about 290 miles

I don't think it got anywhere near 290 miles?

 

 

[Justgrazing]

16 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

I don't think it got anywhere near 290 miles?

 

 

Indeed which is why I said theoretical .. To get anywhere near that figure you probably would have to drive as would an old dear going to church .. 

 

[kwonitoy]

Range doesn't matter, it's price. A brand new Model  Y dual motor, performance model ordered in Canada will cost me 72K Canadian, the equivalent of 1.64 million baht, there're not for sale here yet but generally speaking a 300% import tax will kill any electric mass consumption.

 

I had planned to move back to Canada on Mar 25 and had just about clicked on the order button in the tesla configurator. Oh well, can order whenever I do make it back. Blue with black rims, black interior.

[thaibeachlovers]

When they invent an electric car that can travel for 7 hours with a 5 minute recharge half way, get back to me. Otherwise no interest in one.

[Susco]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When they invent an electric car that can travel for 7 hours with a 5 minute recharge half way, get back to me. Otherwise no interest in one.

Exists already.

 

BMW has a hydrogen - electric car developed together with Toyota

 

https://www.designnews.com/batteryenergy-storage/first-details-on-bmw-i-hydrogen-next-fuel-cell-vehicle/20529667362735

[thaibeachlovers]

36 minutes ago, Susco said:

Exists already.

 

BMW has a hydrogen - electric car developed together with Toyota

 

https://www.designnews.com/batteryenergy-storage/first-details-on-bmw-i-hydrogen-next-fuel-cell-vehicle/20529667362735

Fair enough, but there is zero infrastructure to support them in NZ, so far, so perhaps I should have added " and provide the infrastructure to use one".

[jmccarty]

23 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I don't think it got anywhere near 290 miles?

 

 

Great video!

[The Word]

On 4/23/2020 at 12:38 PM, jmccarty said:

If they can work out a way to make the batteries environmentally friendly

You don't worry about the way that the electricity needed to charge them is made also?

[Coremouse]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:13 PM, AndyAndyAndy said:

If you check the stats, government & global companies are responsible for 95% of world pollution.

 

Even if all the people on the world would drive electric cars, were sorting out trash, responsibly recycled batteries and didn't pour old motor oil down the drain the difference would be exactly zero. Basically what you do doesn't matter and you have no impact on anything.

Exactly I came from China, Thailand have 10 times more outdated cars with silly exhaust than China( I drove dual wg open top here, 26yr old car, passed Mochit inspection without problem. In China even change a mushroom filter would make a car illegal ), but China with very strict car regulation have 10 times more smog than Thailand. The smogs in China is so severe it caused winter chilling, I've been using my flir check weather during winter 2015, almost 90% of all time are grayish cloudy - but only very few days are truely cloudy othertimes are just sunny day blocked by smog, could see very clear in flir. 

 

Cars are more of a energy problem rather only a small part of pollution problem. If look at statistics even sea freight ships generates much more pollution than all cars combined, and many industries are more pollute & toxic than car industry. Also massive population( like China or India ) itself generates much pollution and waste

 

If everyone switch to elec cars the total elec production capacity needs increase more than 35%(calc'ed from CA data), and especially city infrastructure & household capacity needs to double at least. Imagine the pollution and material wastes involved & pretty much mission impossible for any clean energy solution. 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Coremouse

[Coremouse]

On 4/23/2020 at 9:56 PM, Susco said:

Exists already.

 

BMW has a hydrogen - electric car developed together with Toyota

 

https://www.designnews.com/batteryenergy-storage/first-details-on-bmw-i-hydrogen-next-fuel-cell-vehicle/20529667362735

Current state of art for hydrogen is 70-80MPa( high pressure for barely practical size but less weight efficiency ), 150kg cylinder, 5kg hydrogen. And most hydrogen cars are weak and heavy and super expensive. 

 

There's a reason firms like Ballard jumped ship states hydro-car have no future. And man do all fuel cell companies die fast except those like Ballard stayed away from small passenger cars. 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Coremouse

[Susco]

9 minutes ago, Coremouse said:

Current state of art for hydrogen is 70-80MPa( high pressure for barely practical size but less weight efficiency ), 150kg cylinder, 5kg hydrogen. And most hydrogen cars are weak and heavy and super expensive. 

 

There's a reason firms like Ballard jumped ship states hydro-car have no future. And man do all fuel cell companies die fast except those like Ballard stayed away from small passenger cars. 

 

You should read the link I posted before commenting.

 

The BMW is hydrogen fuel cell electric car. The Hydrogen fuel cell charges the battery while driving.

 

It has a maximum power of 374 hp, double the range of a Tesla and charges in 5 minutes

[Coremouse]

4 hours ago, Susco said:

You should read the link I posted before commenting.

 

The BMW is hydrogen fuel cell electric car. The Hydrogen fuel cell charges the battery while driving.

 

It has a maximum power of 374 hp, double the range of a Tesla and charges in 5 minutes

You should read my post before reply. 

It is exactly as I described, 10150psi=70Mpa, 6kg hydrogen, presumbly >170kg for container alone, meager 170hp max fuel cell output for an extreme heavy car. 

 

Only difference is it carries more dead weight: extra battery and extra elec motor running on battery alone, to make it not as sluggish as container truck. Of course if small backup battery run out you're left with only 170hp minus charging. Bonus question: how fast would 147KW( [374-170]*0.735 ) motor depletes and damage a small battery?

 

No matter how much miles it has, for current hydrogen price - more expensive than avgas or race gas - hardly matters. Remember just compress 1kg of hydrogen to 70Mpa cost 5KWh in reality. Bar storage and transport( Even liquid hydrogen have very poor energy volumn density ). Bar safety expense( Hydrogen - what else needs to be said? ). 

 

Hyundai and Toyota been marketing their fuel cell cars for some while. Their cars are smaller but still more than 1800kg heavy. And cost a TON( retail at $50k-70k )

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Coremouse

[madhav]

On 4/23/2020 at 9:48 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

When they invent an electric car that can travel for 7 hours with a 5 minute recharge half way, get back to me. Otherwise no interest in one.

How many people do you honestly think will actually want to drive for 7 hrs with only a 5 min break in between? 
 

Realistically 99% of people will want to stop to eat, use the toilet, stretch etc at least once for 30 min on a typical 7-8 hr trip. More likely one 30 min stop and 2 more 10 min stops.

 

The current battery and fast charge tech in Tesla vehicles allows for up to 250kw/hr charge speeds. This works out about 25km additional range per minute of charging effectively solving the ‘range anxiety’ issues assuming you are human and like to stop every few hours to pee, stretch and eat.
 

 

Edited April 25, 2020 by madhav

[canthai55]

Electric cars - a solution looking for a problem.

When much of the worlds electricity is generated with coal, increasing demand for electric results in even worse pollution.

Read a study years ago re: coal fired power plants in the USA.

They contribute more pollution in one week than all the motor vehicles in N. America do in a year. But who pays for all this pollution reduction - car owners, who contribute little.

And bio diesel is a net energy loser - when comparisons are made with the cost of production, distilling, transportation, blending, etc

But who is behind it - Big Coal, Big Agro, Big Pharma - who are many times the same companies.

The ones who want nothing to do with pollution reduction, as it cuts into their bottom line.

So who gets screwed ... ?

And Tesla - who won't even let you fix your own car, and wants over $200 bucks for a plastic door handle - 555

[jmccarty]

On 4/25/2020 at 1:07 PM, The Word said:

You don't worry about the way that the electricity needed to charge them is made also?

It's made from coal fired power plants of course!  Or in many countries, biomass, which is trees!

[The Word]

1 minute ago, jmccarty said:

On 4/25/2020 at 1:07 PM, The Word said:

You don't worry about the way that the electricity needed to charge them is made also?

It's made from coal fired power plants of course!  Or in many countries, biomass, which is trees!

Thanks, but I do know how electricity is made, that was my point.

[jmccarty]

On 4/27/2020 at 11:21 AM, The Word said:

Thanks, but I do know how electricity is made, that was my point.

The irony is not lost on me, its all just smoke screens on top of smoke screens and back to having too many people on the world. There is no right answer!

[CHdiver]

On 4/23/2020 at 8:57 AM, Crossy said:

The batteries themselves are highly recyclable, which is great. Even if not recycled they can find a second life in non-mobile applications such as solar walls.

 

If a practical Fortuner sized vehicle with a sensible range say 300km or so for slightly more than a current top-end Fortuner came along I would be in the line.

 

 

I read this many times, mostly from Tesla enthusiasts. However, till now I never found a recyclet powerwall. Two things come to my mind, repacking cost and the decline of the storing of energy accelerates anyway towards the end of life in batteries. But I am ready to learn something new.