Idea for PM about farangs in Thailand - an Alien Id card for all ?

[Bender Rodriguez]

now that all can see the world still turn around, even in Thailand, without the 90 days reports, tm30, etc...

 

why not introduce, an ALIEN id card for all long stay expats in exchange for the 400k/800k in the bank method, no VISA agent SCAMS ...

 

that would be used for ALL future services with immigration and/or even driver license, etc...

 

instead of copies and more copies of pages, passports, bank books,  they already have years before...

 

a chance to make a new start

 

we don't need all the tm30, 90 day reports, yearly extensions that take so much time to be "under consideration", needing to return etc...

 

the 90 day amnesty shows to people with half a brain that it is all fluf

 

just dreaming

 

a good income of course, 1900 baht per victim x ...... ?

 

 

[nongsung]

Yep, unfortunately you are just dreaming...

[evadgib]

Why not grant PR to all long term residents after 3 trouble-free years in the Kingdom on Married, Retd or work extns & include a 'no drink driving' clause to ensure compliance by those that routinely do it here (we all know them) but wouldn't usually dare at home?

Just my 2p ????

Edited April 28, 2020 by evadgib

[fishtank]

Why not PR to all that have been married to a Thai woman for 15 years?

Not going to happen.

But for  foreign woman married to  Thai Man?

Piece of cake.

Edited April 28, 2020 by fishtank

[473geo]

There is of course the pink ID card in existence

 

But guess what? it appears to be far too much trouble for many to obtain, so they whine about the time and effort it takes to be processed and about it being of no benefit

Add an approximate price of 60 baht well no chance that is just the final straw!!! No way Jose over a a quid/ a couple of dollars surely taking advantage!!

 

My wife set it all up for me yellow book and pink card - considered it might be a good idea - is it? don't really know, but it means I am on record at the local amphur, having got married there also, a 'known' person so to speak which is always a good start

 

Permanent residence, why do you need it? comfort blanket? oh to resolve the hardship of immigration controls, give us a break, if it's not worth the effort then..... do one!!

 

 

[elliss]

 

 PM , should make it law , that all aliens visiting the kingdom ,

     should be on isolated and on lock down , for a long time , forever ...

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, elliss said:

 

 PM , should make it law , that all aliens visiting the kingdom ,

     should be on isolated and on lock down , for a long time , forever ...

Also without booze, since this country has issue with it. Apparently we need to be protected from our irresponsible ways.

[tomazbodner]

31 minutes ago, 473geo said:

There is of course the pink ID card in existence

 

But guess what? it appears to be far too much trouble for many to obtain, so they whine about the time and effort it takes to be processed and about it being of no benefit

Add an approximate price of 60 baht well no chance that is just the final straw!!! No way Jose over a a quid/ a couple of dollars surely taking advantage!!

 

My wife set it all up for me yellow book and pink card - considered it might be a good idea - is it? don't really know, but it means I am on record at the local amphur, having got married there also, a 'known' person so to speak which is always a good start

 

Permanent residence, why do you need it? comfort blanket? oh to resolve the hardship of immigration controls, give us a break, if it's not worth the effort then..... do one!!

 

 

I think PR is worth the effort.

 

So is pink card, which was the easiest thing to get that I didn't even want. I went to register at khet and they asked me if I want one. 60 baht + 5? baht for a sleeve. 15 minutes to take photo, punch in my details and they printed it out right in front of me. Obviously one thing about pink card - it is only valid in the province where it's issued.

[evadgib]

32 minutes ago, 473geo said:

There is of course the pink ID card in existence

 

But guess what? it appears to be far too much trouble for many to obtain, so they whine about the time and effort it takes to be processed and about it being of no benefit

Add an approximate price of 60 baht well no chance that is just the final straw!!! No way Jose over a a quid/ a couple of dollars surely taking advantage!!

 

My wife set it all up for me yellow book and pink card - considered it might be a good idea - is it? don't really know, but it means I am on record at the local amphur, having got married there also, a 'known' person so to speak which is always a good start

 

Permanent residence, why do you need it? comfort blanket? oh to resolve the hardship of immigration controls, give us a break, if it's not worth the effort then..... do one!!

 

 

Spectacularly missing the point on multiple fronts ????

[Kalorymetr]

They don't want the geezers thats it.

No trouble on work visa, company takes care of everything.

[473geo]

4 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Spectacularly missing the point on multiple fronts ????

Let me tell you what my point is - the amount of time people spend moaning on forums about the hardship of the immigration process, could have seen them processing multiple applications - there is a PR process in place, if you want to go for it get on with it!!

No country makes immigration easy - people really need to get over themselves

[worgeordie]

1 hour ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

no VISA agent SCAMS ...

Big Joke did a lot to get rid of that, he's now gone and it's all back

to normal,too big a money maker to get rid of.

regards worgeordie

[ubonjoe]

A off topic inflammatory post has been removed.

[473geo]

17 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Big Joke did a lot to get rid of that, he's now gone and it's all back

to normal,too big a money maker to get rid of.

regards worgeordie

It's an alternative, one of the things I like about Thailand - options

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

Let me tell you what my point is - the amount of time people spend moaning on forums about the hardship of the immigration process, could have seen them processing multiple applications - there is a PR process in place, if you want to go for it get on with it!!

No country makes immigration easy - people really need to get over themselves

How is offering a practical solution to the OP's question moaning & how can a retiree otherwise qualify for PR when you know full well they're unable to even apply?

 

Let me guess; '(Y)our own fault'..?

Edited April 28, 2020 by evadgib

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, 473geo said:

There is of course the pink ID card in existence

 

But guess what? it appears to be far too much trouble for many to obtain, so they whine about the time and effort it takes to be processed and about it being of no benefit

 

Add an approximate price of 60 baht well no chance that is just the final straw!!! No way Jose over a a quid/ a couple of dollars surely taking advantage!!

 

My wife set it all up for me yellow book and pink card - considered it might be a good idea - is it? don't really know, but it means I am on record at the local amphur, having got married there also, a 'known' person so to speak which is always a good start

From the stories I have read, some amphurs make it impossible to obtain - similar to getting married to a Thai at some amphurs.  Some officials really do hate us, and strongly resent us taking up any form of "residence," here.

 

10 hours ago, 473geo said:

Permanent residence, why do you need it? comfort blanket? oh to resolve the hardship of immigration controls, give us a break, if it's not worth the effort then..... do one!!

We need it, so we don't ever have to worry about being separated from our homes/families by arbitrary changes to our "one year at a time," unpredictable/conditional, permitted-stays. 

 

After what they did to long-time retirees last year, it is clear "security" is not possible while Immigration can change the rules AFTER we have retired or married here under an EXISTING set of rules.   All security-credibility, based on "grandfathering" previous changes, was lost with that move. 

 

11 hours ago, worgeordie said:

13 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

no VISA agent SCAMS ...

Big Joke did a lot to get rid of that, he's now gone and it's all back

to normal,too big a money maker to get rid of.

regards worgeordie

On the contrary - those "reforms" were designed for the very opposite effect.  "Year Round Money Seasoning," while skipping ALL seasoning checks for agent-applications (as before)?  Sworn-affidavits (risking a felony in 2 countries) deemed not valid - as if there was "welfare" here to take, in any case.  And when you show bank-validated foreign-deposits, they disqualify the income based on the "type of money" it is - savings, dividends, etc, versus a "state pension."  What a "joke," indeed.  Honest-applicants disqualified, to force for MORE Agent-money into their pockets.

 

Factor-in the dishonoring of the MFA's tourist-visas, and the outspoken resentment expressed regarding my Non-O Visa (during my last futile-attempt for a marraige-based extension).  So, maybe it's all about corruption - maybe that is why we must be kept "on a leash" - to keep the money rolling in.  It's certainly not about the "official fees" (with receipt).  Many of us would gladly pay more, if we could provide ONLY what is actually necessary to validate our applications.  The agent-system's very existence proves this. 

 

But I have to wonder, is it we farangs who are the primary-target?  Or is it the "ordinary" Thais, whose upward-mobility our spending creates?  After all, it is they who suffer the most from every immigration policy-change.  While the front-line IOs may be trained to treat us like criminals, those at the top know better; they have their own agenda.

[JackThompson]

12 hours ago, Kalorymetr said:

They don't want the geezers thats it.

No trouble on work visa, company takes care of everything.

Actually, I found a Thai income complicated things, on my last futile attempt at an extension based on marraige to a Thai.  Management at my job decided it was easier to pay me for 4 visa-run days per year, than to deal with immigration's corruption.   It costs them more than an agent-payoff, but avoids hassles for all the staff that have to "do everything for the work-permit again" - and more - to "satisfy"  immigration that my work-permit isn't "fake."

Edited April 29, 2020 by JackThompson

[donnacha]

I just wish they'd introduce a monthly version of the Elite Visa at 10K per month. It should be as easy as applying for a 30-day tourist extension at any Immigration office for 1,900 baht, just more expensive, and you should be able to pay for as few or as many months in advance as you want.

I am certain it would turn out to be a massive seller. Everyone grumbles about the price of the 5yr Elite visa, but the real problem is paying for 5 years upfront in such an unstable country and such uncertain times worldwide.

If the government want to quickly build back up the number of Westerners spending money in Thailand, along with a windfall in visa fees, that is what they should do.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by donnacha

[473geo]

1 hour ago, donnacha said:

I just wish they'd introduce a monthly version of the Elite Visa at 10K per month. It should be as easy as applying for a 30-day tourist extension at any Immigration office for 1,900 baht, just more expensive, and you should be able to pay for as few or as many months in advance as you want.

I am certain it would turn out to be a massive seller. Everyone grumbles about the price of the 5yr Elite visa, but the real problem is paying for 5 years upfront in such an unstable country and such uncertain times worldwide.

If the government want to quickly build back up the number of Westerners spending money in Thailand, along with a windfall in visa fees, that is what they should do.

 

"If the government want to build up the numbers of westerners spending money"

 

The continuous over estimation of the 'drop in the ocean' spending by 'long stay' foreigners appears to be mainly present in the minds of the 'entitled' many who seek cheap accommodation, cheap food and wine and cheap 'entertainment' a group Thailand accepts but in reality does not need to survive

 

So just behave, meet the requirements, and enjoy Thailand as the guest you currently are

 

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

46 minutes ago, 473geo said:

The continuous over estimation of the 'drop in the ocean' spending by 'long stay' foreigners appears to be mainly present in the minds of the 'entitled' many who seek cheap accommodation, cheap food and wine and cheap 'entertainment' a group Thailand accepts but in reality does not need to survive

It is also noticed by all the folks in Issan who were driven out of their former jobs by Immigration's "crack downs" on longer-stay Western visitors. 

Of course Thailand offers lower-prices for some things - which is part of what makes it an attractive destination.  But it would be a huge mistake to think "high rollers" spending at venues owned by the wealthiest Thais offer the most benefit to Thais, overall.  They never see a dime of that money.

I am reminded of a past discussion, where some "old farang" eating at a noodle-shop was disparaged as some sort of "problem."  Ask the owner of the noodle-shop - now living in the boonies trying to survive on what he can grow and/or handout-income from his children, who have to work overseas due to lack of opportunities in Thailand - how he feels about not allowing his customers to reach his now-closed noodle-shop.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, donnacha said:

I just wish they'd introduce a monthly version of the Elite Visa at 10K per month. It should be as easy as applying for a 30-day tourist extension at any Immigration office for 1,900 baht, just more expensive, and you should be able to pay for as few or as many months in advance as you want.

I am certain it would turn out to be a massive seller. Everyone grumbles about the price of the 5yr Elite visa, but the real problem is paying for 5 years upfront in such an unstable country and such uncertain times worldwide.

If the government want to quickly build back up the number of Westerners spending money in Thailand, along with a windfall in visa fees, that is what they should do.

A visa should not cost more than rent in a high-floor, oceanview condominium in a country - is out of balance with the local-economic reality.  Lower overhead costs are a primary reason MOST visitors come here in the first place.  There exist many more expensive tropical locales.

 

The government would get much more total-fee-revenue from a 5K/mo visa - with many times more who would/could pay it.  Anyone with insufficient funds to spend would be unable to continue paying the monthly-fee.  Of course, they could offer a 10K version with golf and such included.

 

I agree on shorter-duration being a key point.  There are often jokes about paying at 7-11 or online, but for a renewable type of extension like this, would actually be a great and very workable idea - so no burden to "the system," to do it.

[473geo]

12 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is also noticed by all the folks in Issan who were driven out of their former jobs by Immigration's "crack downs" on longer-stay Western visitors. 

Of course Thailand offers lower-prices for some things - which is part of what makes it an attractive destination.  But it would be a huge mistake to think "high rollers" spending at venues owned by the wealthiest Thais offer the most benefit to Thais, overall.  They never see a dime of that money.

I am reminded of a past discussion, where some "old farang" eating at a noodle-shop was disparaged as some sort of "problem."  Ask the owner of the noodle-shop - now living in the boonies trying to survive on what he can grow and/or handout-income from his children, who have to work overseas due to lack of opportunities in Thailand - how he feels about not allowing his customers to reach his now-closed noodle-shop.

Of course the farang is welcome to eat at the noodle shop, along with more abundant Thai people who actually keep the sellers in business. 

A business surviving solely on foreign patronage is best sited in a an area popular with  tourists right?

 

You go to a rural market possibly see one or two farang among the hundreds of Thai, you think there would be some dramatic economic collapse if the farang did not attend.

 

Hard as it may be to accept, the farang long stayer is of no real economic significance, excepting the few family and locals that benefit directly. 

 

As a tourist in Thailand for 3 weeks a year I could off load easily 10,000 baht a day plus paying for accommodation and food - there are not many long term farangs living at that spending pace, indeed I certainly do not now ???? Now I am a family man, and to Thai business, I am just another customer, which I easily accept.

 

If you are a wealthy farang go for the low hassle elite visa.........'oh but wait they could change the rules, more prudent to use a cheaper option but paperwork is a pain'......then you could hire an agent less hassle......'oh but agents are a rip off, better (and cheaper) to process oneself.'...you could use the money in the bank method not too complicated........'I don't want my money sitting around in a Thai bank earning no interest' why is Thai immigration so complicated

 

'There's hole in the bucket dear lisa'

 

 

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 473geo said:

"If the government want to build up the numbers of westerners spending money"

 

The continuous over estimation of the 'drop in the ocean' spending by 'long stay' foreigners appears to be mainly present in the minds of the 'entitled' many who seek cheap accommodation, cheap food and wine and cheap 'entertainment' a group Thailand accepts but in reality does not need to survive

 

So just behave, meet the requirements, and enjoy Thailand as the guest you currently are

For guest read fare paying passenger & note the gender-related exemption if the Thai half in a relationship happens to be male.

Quote

 

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, 473geo said:

There is of course the pink ID card in existence

A drawback to which is that it omits one particular piece of crucial information: namely the date when your current permission to stay in Thailand expires.

[473geo]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

A drawback to which is that it omits one particular piece of crucial information: namely the date when your current permission to stay in Thailand expires.

But it does carry enough information, in Thai, to assist in carrying out a quick check. The underlying reason for providing a pink card is that you are a 'resident' in Thailand is my understanding, and it brings one into line and into the 'system' along with the Thai population - currently nothing to do with immigration but possibly of benefit if they come calling to prove you are not under the radar

[Isaan Alan]

17 hours ago, 473geo said:

There is of course the pink ID card in existence

 

But guess what? it appears to be far too much trouble for many to obtain, so they whine about the time and effort it takes to be processed and about it being of no benefit

Add an approximate price of 60 baht well no chance that is just the final straw!!! No way Jose over a a quid/ a couple of dollars surely taking advantage!!

 

My wife set it all up for me yellow book and pink card - considered it might be a good idea - is it? don't really know, but it means I am on record at the local amphur, having got married there also, a 'known' person so to speak which is always a good start

 

Permanent residence, why do you need it? comfort blanket? oh to resolve the hardship of immigration controls, give us a break, if it's not worth the effort then..... do one!!

 

 

Hey was it easy for you so others who hit the wall a few times and gave up are whiners? Lucky you. I made 3 visits to the local Amphur over 6 months before I gave up when the manager told my Thai wife to leave.. Tried again and 6 months later the acting woman manager made it easy. That's why I whined. Cost me a lot more than 60 baht, a trip to Bangers from Isaan, a visit to Oz embassy for a 3k baht stamped piece of copy paper of my passport, a half day at MFA for stamping.  Lucky you got it in 1 go did you?

Edited April 29, 2020 by Isaan Alan

[Bob12345]

56 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Hard as it may be to accept, the farang long stayer is of no real economic significance, excepting the few family and locals that benefit directly. 

 

As a tourist in Thailand for 3 weeks a year I could off load easily 10,000 baht a day plus paying for accommodation and food - there are not many long term farangs living at that spending pace, indeed I certainly do not now ???? Now I am a family man, and to Thai business, I am just another customer, which I easily accept

3 week holiday at 10k a day is 210k per year in my book. As a long-stay farang i can share with you that i spend that on a monthly here in the country with my family (including mortgage payments, car payments, utilities, food, and schooling for the kids).

 

So why is 210k per year more beneficial to the country than the 2m a year i am spending?

 

 

 

Edit: i think you are making the same "mistake" as the government is making, it is a sweet deal to go after the 10K a day and then you leave again asking nothing further. But what if you go to another country next year? Then Thailand misses out on your 10K. And how much did you spend in Thailand in the past month when Thailand needed it the most? Probably nothing because the borders are closed. Well, i did still spend, cause I live here long-term. If they made it easier for foreigners to stay here long-term, and maybe 10,000 foreigners move this way it would mean a few thousand extra condo's and houses being sold, 30,000 extra meals being sold per day, and if they are old a huge extra income for hospitals being added to the country. Maybe another 5,000 extra cars, 10,000 extra TV sets, etc. All income you dont get with tourists coming for 3 weeks. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by Bob12345

[473geo]

1 minute ago, Isaan Alan said:

Hey was it easy for you so others who hit the wall a few times and gave up are whiners? Lucky you. I made 3 visits to the local Amphur over 6 months before I gave up when the manager told my Thai wife to leave.. Tried again and 6 months later the acting woman manager made it easy. That's why I whined. Cost me a lot more than 60 baht, a trip to Bangers from Isaan, a visit to Oz embassy for a 2k baht stamped piece of copy paper of my passport, a half day at MFA for stamping.  Lucky you got it in 1 go did you?

Absolutely, first time, all nicely arranged, wife, mother-in-law, village head, all came along and waited patiently until they were called to verify all was correct. I was rather impressed, but not surprised, by the planning and organisation of my wife. We were also the first farang Thai marriage there some years ago, worked through the process with same people who dealt with pink card so all good.

 

[473geo]

8 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

3 week holiday at 10k a day is 210k per year in my book. As a long-stay farang i can share with you that i spend that on a monthly here in the country with my family (including mortgage payments, car payments, utilities, food, and schooling for the kids).

 

So why is 210k per year more beneficial to the country than the 2m a year i am spending?

Then you should have no immigration issues elite visa for you

 

Next

[Big Joke]

An ID card for foreigners, great idea. We will change the law so that all people who stay more than 180 days per year in Thailand pay Thai tax in exchange for the ID card

To make sure you are assimilating into Thai society, when renewing your yearly permission to stay we will introduce a Thai language test.