This is never going to end

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

The only way viral pandemics end is when you have enough people with immunity, and if immunity is short lived, then you need to achieve this as quickly as possible.  The 'flattening the curve' theory is a dangerous myth created by people who were worried about temporary overloading of hospitals. 

 

There's no credible medical or scientific evidence thus far that someone becoming infected with COVID now automatically acquires immunity from future/repeat infections.

Edited May 5, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Kinnock]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's no credible medical or scientific evidence thus far that someone becoming infected with COVID now automatically acquires immunity from future/repeat infections.

That's not true.

 

Of course there is immunity or nobody would ever recover.  There's some debate on possible cases of reinfection, but that is genetally thought to be testing errors, and we don't know yet how long immunity will last, but there is certainly immunity and antibody testing shows this.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

That's not true.

 

Of course there is immunity or nobody would ever recover.  There's some debate on possible cases of reinfection, but that is genetally thought to be testing errors, and we don't know yet how long immunity will last, but there is certainly immunity and antibody testing shows this.

 Please....  Recovering from an illness is not the same as developing enough antibodies to provide future immunity.  People who've had CV can develop antibodies. But whether they develop enough of the right kind of provide actual future immunity is presently unknown.

 

If you have any credible medical/scientific source that says otherwise re CV, then please share it... But, there is no such research at present.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/from-our-experts/early-herd-immunity-against-covid-19-a-dangerous-misconception

 

Quote

To reach herd immunity for COVID-19, likely 70% or more of the population would need to be immune. Without a vaccine, over 200 million Americans would have to get infected before we reach this threshold. Put another way, even if the current pace of the COVID-19 pandemic continues in the United States – with over 25,000 confirmed cases a day – it will be well into 2021 before we reach herd immunity. If current daily death rates continue, over half a million Americans would be dead from COVID-19 by that time.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/04/30/herd-immunity-covid-19-coronavirus/

 

Quote

 

in testing done on April 3-4 in Santa Clara County, California, 3% of residents had these antibodies.

...These studies used tests that look at antibodies, because antibodies are an easily detected measure of immune response and are sometimes an indicator of who is protected from infection. However, we do not know if people with antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 are immune—and if they are, how long any protection might last.

 

Focus on the comment at the end.. "we do not know if people with antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 are immune—and if they are, how long any protection might last."

Edited May 5, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimmyJ]

On 5/4/2020 at 1:45 PM, CharlieH said:

Its what gets implemented, passed in to law because of a "situation" but is never withdrawn after its over.

That's the concern for many,.

Greenwald and Snowden discuss Covid and Civil Liberties:

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/04/cdc-daily-deaths-coronavirus-234377

 

The result, according to the researchers below, of a "premature" relaxation of social distancing practices in the U.S. under Trump and Co.

 

Quote

 

Models shift to predict dramatically more U.S. deaths as states relax social distancing

A key model favored by the White House nearly doubled its prediction to 134,000 fatalities by August

 

A key model of the coronavirus pandemic favored by the White House nearly doubled its prediction Monday for how many people will die from the virus in the U.S. by August – primarily because states are reopening too soon.
 

The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington’s School of Medicine is now projecting 134,000 coronavirus-related fatalities, up from a previous prediction of 72,000.

 

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's no credible medical or scientific evidence thus far that someone becoming infected with COVID now automatically acquires immunity from future/repeat infections.

 

That is wholly untrue. 

 

Nobody has been deliberately reinfected with the virus to test immunity, but a pair of rhesus macaque monkeys have.

 

They were infected twice, once to build up an immune response and then a second time three weeks later. Those very limited experiments showed they did not develop symptoms again after such a quick reinfection.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

 

"The question is not whether you become immune, it's how long for," said Paul Hunter, a professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia.

[Logosone]

50 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Please....  Recovering from an illness is not the same as developing enough antibodies to provide future immunity.  People who've had CV can develop antibodies. But whether they develop enough of the right kind of provide actual future immunity is presently unknown.

 

If you have any credible medical/scientific source that says otherwise re CV, then please share it... But, there is no such research at present.

 

 

Antibodies are just one part of the immune response. The other is cellular immunity. It's not all down to antibodies in terms of immunity:

 

"While you will find some antibodies in nearly every patient, not all are equal. Neutralising antibodies are the ones that stick to the coronavirus and are able to stop it infecting other cells. A study of 175 recovered patients in China showed 30% had very low levels of these neutralising antibodies.

That is why the World Health Organization says "that cellular immunity [the other part of the adaptive response] may also be critical for recovery".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

36 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

That is wholly untrue. 

 

Nobody has been deliberately reinfected with the virus to test immunity, but a pair of rhesus macaque monkeys have.

 

They were infected twice, once to build up an immune response and then a second time three weeks later. Those very limited experiments showed they did not develop symptoms again after such a quick reinfection.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52446965

 

"The question is not whether you become immune, it's how long for," said Paul Hunter, a professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia.

 

Monkeys are not people.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

More on this subject from the WHO, courtesy of Johns Hopkins daily COVID update:
 

Quote

 

In an interview on BBC News, the WHO Technical Lead for the COVID-19 response, Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove, discussed the potential for re-infection with SARS-CoV-2...

...

At this time, studies are ongoing to determine whether the antibodies produced in response to SARS-CoV-2 infection confer immunity to those individuals and, if so, how long that immunity could persist. There is not currently sufficient evidence to determine whether individuals will maintain any lasting immunity against the virus.

 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/COVID-19-Updates---May-4.html?soid=1107826135286&aid=sN3dKjUynIU

Edited May 5, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's no credible medical or scientific evidence thus far that someone becoming infected with COVID now automatically acquires immunity from future/repeat infections.

 

 

That, then, would surely screw the Swedish model ?

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Monkeys are not people.

Bubbles will not be pleased to hear that.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Logosone

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

That, then, would surely screw the Swedish model ?

It would, except it's total nonsense of course.

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Monkeys are not people.

Ahhhh, but we are both Primates, and share 93% of our DNA (macaques). 

Close enough for me 

[Kinnock]

31 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

More on this subject from the WHO, courtesy of Johns Hopkins daily COVID update:
 

https://myemail.constantcontact.com/COVID-19-Updates---May-4.html?soid=1107826135286&aid=sN3dKjUynIU

You have no idea what you are talking about, and your obsession with links and quotes demonstrates where you get all your information from.

 

The only question is how long the immunity may last.  It's obvious from the profile of the epidemic that people have an effective immune response.  Look at HIV for an example of a very different profile.

 

But you keep throwing info at random without the basic knowledge to understand what you are reading, and we'll continue to be bemused by your posts.

[Skallywag]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Recovering from an illness is not the same as developing enough antibodies to provide future immunity.  People who've had CV can develop antibodies. But whether they develop enough of the right kind of provide actual future immunity is presently unknown.

I think where this is going is similar to heart disease and cancer, the number 1 and 2 causes of death.  Viruses may become number 3. 

Accept it or spend the rest of your life following government "restrictions" and hope you die from #1 or #2 instead? 

The only reason this viral outbreak is devastating is because it is an acute threat instead of a chronic illness.  Of course a chronic illness will also kill you, but you are funding the medical health professionals for years before you die and because of that, depriving you children an inheritance as all your money goes for medical bills.

 

This is one reason I believe our "medical professionals" do not really want a vaccine or simple 5 minute testing.  Chronic illnesses are much more profitable for them

Edited May 5, 2020 by Skallywag

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

34 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

You have no idea what you are talking about, and your obsession with links and quotes demonstrates where you get all your information from.

 

I'm citing information directly from Johns Hopkins and the WHO, both reputable authorities on COVID.

You, on the other hand, are only posting your own unsupported opinions. Because, there's no credible science re humans thus far that verifies your views.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

46 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

Ahhhh, but we are both Primates, and share 93% of our DNA (macaques). 

Close enough for me 

 

I'm sure there's a considerable familial resemblance in your case...  

[Logosone]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm citing information directly from Johns Hopkins and the WHO, both reputable authorities on COVID.

You, on the other hand, are only posting your own unsupported opinions. Because, there's no credible science that reports your views.

 

His view is the science.

 

Immunity is the general rule with viral infections.

 

Prof Jon Cohen, emeritus professor of infectious diseases at Brighton and Sussex Medical School, said: 

 

“However, it is very likely, based on other viral infections, that yes, once a person has had the infection they will generally be immune and won’t get it again. There will always be the odd exception, but that is certainly a reasonable expectation.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/the-big-question-over-coronavirus-can-a-person-get-it-twice

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, Logosone said:

His view is the science.

 

Immunity is the general rule with viral infections.

 

Prof Jon Cohen, emeritus professor of infectious diseases at Brighton and Sussex Medical School, said: 

 

“However, it is very likely, based on other viral infections, that yes, once a person has had the infection they will generally be immune and won’t get it again. There will always be the odd exception, but that is certainly a reasonable expectation.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/the-big-question-over-coronavirus-can-a-person-get-it-twice

 

 

that's his opinion based on past history with other diseases -- not any documented human experience or research with COVID.

 

Something being "the general rule" doesn't make it true for COVID.

 

[Kinnock]

36 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm citing information directly from Johns Hopkins and the WHO, both reputable authorities on COVID.

You, on the other hand, are only posting your own unsupported opinions. Because, there's no credible science re humans thus far that verifies your views.

 

Please stop, I'm having breathing difficulties ????????

 

Johns Hopkins - origin of most the incorrect press reports on case numbers and fatality rates - their Worldmeter was set up to track population growth, not pandemics.

 

WHO. ????????????????????????

 

You have the same problem as most the reporters who've suddenly become epidemiologists, you don't understand the reports you are reading or their agendas.

 

Public health and safety has been my profession for 40 years - in Europe and Asia, I don't need to quote links from political organisations to try and make a case.

 

I know you won't agree, you will just get further entrenched in your misguided views, so this exchange is pointless, and you'e so mistaken it's not even funny any more, so enough for me.

[Skallywag]

42 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I'm sure there's a considerable familial resemblance in your case...  

Look more like a Chimpanzee than a Macaque ????

[Skallywag]

53 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm citing information directly from Johns Hopkins and the WHO, both reputable authorities on COVID.

 

7 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

Please stop, I'm having breathing difficulties ????????

this exchange is pointless, and you'e so mistaken it's not even funny any more, so enough for me.

Oh well, it was a very interesting/informative debate while it lasted.  Thank you both

Edited May 5, 2020 by Skallywag

[mr mr]

54 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm citing information directly from Johns Hopkins and the WHO, both reputable authorities on COVID.

hhahaha the WHO is reputable ? hahahah 

[Logosone]

44 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

that's his opinion based on past history with other diseases -- not any documented human experience or research with COVID.

 

Something being "the general rule" doesn't make it true for COVID.

 

"Only that is true which can be proven" is a random definition of the word "true" which can not be proven.

 

Friedrich Nietzsche.

 

Just kidding. We'll have the research eventually. It'll all be fine. 

[bwpage3]

20 hours ago, teacherclaire said:

I do not think that the US is stable. Please watch what will happen in the next four weeks and let's get back on topic.

Instead of thinking, ask someone.

 

All the restaurants and businesses are re-opening in my area of Florida USA this week.

 

During this entire pandemic, I have probably been to the stores at least 30 times, got food from a drive-through many times, been around to the beach and other places, etc.

 

People read the news and think the world is coming to an end.

 

Why?

 

Because for some odd reason, the news thinks they can profit from Doom and Gloom news and not from good news.

 

All the wonderful first responder stories are buried under 1000 Doom and Gloom stories.

 

Have you noticed ALL the stories every time someone famous dies from CV it is in the news, yet others have died from natural causes and never read a word about it.

 

So all you read about is the Doom and Gloom.

 

380,000,000 people in the USA. 225,000 deaths. Do the math. It is not doom and gloom.

 

The US is a big place, some places like New York were hit hard, others like North Dakota none at all.

 

Don't believe everything you read.

 

[Bob A Kneale]

On 5/3/2020 at 11:50 AM, sukhumvitneon said:

"We're all in this together"

 

"This is the new normal"

 

"Stay safe, stay home".

 

These and more catchphrases gush out of every mainstream media orifice you could think of.  This lockdown is forever, it's not going away.

That's where you're going wrong, as you said yourself, it's the media that's saying this!   If a media outlet has said that "this lockdown is forever" (and I'm pretty sure that none have said that), they're wrong and they don't count when it comes to reality.  It's up to you whether to believe it or not, you're sanity is in your hands, not the media's.

[stuandjulie]

On 5/3/2020 at 5:12 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

This is like the Black Death except the government did it to us. The virus has hardly killed anyone on a global scale- cars kill more.

What a stupid comment, It has already killed more Americans than the Vietnam War <deleted>

[Ryan754326]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

that's his opinion based on past history with other diseases -- not any documented human experience or research with COVID.

 

Something being "the general rule" doesn't make it true for COVID.

 

If it turns out that this virus is completely unlike the rest of the corona virus family, and humans are unable to build up natural  immunity for any length of time, then a vaccine would be hopeless anyway.

What will we do, re-vaccinate the entire world’s population every month, until the end of time, to keep it under control?