UK Passport issues during COVID-19

[cheekysailor]

Thanks for the advice, any advice is appreciated at this time.  One 'possible' way to alleviate the problem is to book a flight to a neighbouring country, then apply for a ETD. Any thoughts on this procedure?

[theoldgit]

39 minutes ago, cheekysailor said:

Thanks for the advice, any advice is appreciated at this time.  One 'possible' way to alleviate the problem is to book a flight to a neighbouring country, then apply for a ETD. Any thoughts on this procedure?

 

An ETD to go where?

 

 

[pontious]

1 hour ago, cheekysailor said:

Thanks for the advice, any advice is appreciated at this time.  One 'possible' way to alleviate the problem is to book a flight to a neighbouring country, then apply for a ETD. Any thoughts on this procedure?

I assume you live here. Do you mean book a ticket somewhere  to show embassy but not actually travel.? If so I would not do that. If you have no reason for travel just tell them. is up to  them to tell you what to do.

If for some reason you want to travel you cannot to go to any country that requires 6 month validity on passport. You cannot come back to Thailand at present  anyway. They normally say contact HMPO for passport issues - tell them you have done that and it looks impossible to renew in time.

Edited May 10, 2020 by pontious

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, cheekysailor said:

Thanks for the advice, any advice is appreciated at this time.  One 'possible' way to alleviate the problem is to book a flight to a neighbouring country, then apply for a ETD. Any thoughts on this procedure?

If I were in the same dire predicament as you, I would probably be making every effort to book a one-way flight to the UK before my passport expired, and then getting it renewed during an extended stay in the UK. There do still appear to be possible options available on the basis of a Google search of “Flights from Bangkok to London”.

 

A far from satisfactory practical solution to your desperate situation, I quite accept. But, if you could somehow make it work, it could well turn out to be your least worst option.

 

However, you might run the risk of being quarantined for 14 days upon your arrival back in the UK if the following BBC news item is to be believed:-

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52594023

 

[ImageDude]

16 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

But what does sound potentially worrying for those with new passports in the pipeline is that, with no-one in the VFS offices around to sign for them, how many unsucessful deliveries will DHL be prepared to undertake before giving up and returning these passports to HMPO in the UK?

This is one instance were the British Embassy Bangkok could be brought into play and have passports delivered to them. After all, they keep telling us these are unprecedented times, in that case, special measures should be introduced. But, please don't hold your breath!

Edited May 10, 2020 by ImageDude

[pontious]

1 hour ago, ImageDude said:

This is one instance were the British Embassy Bangkok could be brought into play and have passports delivered to them. After all, they keep telling us these are unprecedented times, in that case, special measures should be introduced. But, please don't hold your breath!

A good suggestion for at least those with applications already in. But why are we as citizens looking for alternatives. It is not our job. The BE must be aware from the amount of emails / phone calls they are receiving there is a growing problem regarding Passport Renewals - they should be looking at alternatives with HMPO- not us. On the BE website passports are not mentioned at all. There silence on the matter is simply unacceptable and a disgrace.

[cheekysailor]

4 hours ago, pontious said:

I assume you live here. Do you mean book a ticket somewhere  to show embassy but not actually travel.? If so I would not do that. If you have no reason for travel just tell them. is up to  them to tell you what to do.

If for some reason you want to travel you cannot to go to any country that requires 6 month validity on passport. You cannot come back to Thailand at present  anyway. They normally say contact HMPO for passport issues - tell them you have done that and it looks impossible to renew in time.

 

Yes, exactly that. I have no intention to leave Thailand as I work here. Buying a ticket to Malaysia would be just to get the ETD as a means to an end, in order to circumnavigate the situation. Ideally, the BE should be attempting to speak with Thai authorities, applying for an extension on passports until all offices are fully up and running, sadly this is not the case. 
As for going back to the UK which has been mentioned in another post, this is not an ideal scenario either as I work here in Thailand.  It is not practical to tell my boss I am going back to the UK.......  Oh and by the way, I don't know when I will be back.  Could be a month minimum, could be five. Let's take every day as it comes.

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, cheekysailor said:

 

Yes, exactly that. I have no intention to leave Thailand as I work here. Buying a ticket to Malaysia would be just to get the ETD as a means to an end, in order to circumnavigate the situation. Ideally, the BE should be attempting to speak with Thai authorities, applying for an extension on passports until all offices are fully up and running, sadly this is not the case. 
As for going back to the UK which has been mentioned in another post, this is not an ideal scenario either as I work here in Thailand.  It is not practical to tell my boss I am going back to the UK.......  Oh and by the way, I don't know when I will be back.  Could be a month minimum, could be five. Let's take every day as it comes.

 

 

The British Embassy have been very vocal on Coronavirus - but strangely quiet on passports. 

 

They are obviously aware than an increasing number of British expats will have issues with upcoming extensions.

 

 

HMPO are as much use as a chocolate fireguard in responding to emails about the issue.... they simply come back with a stock answer that does not deal with the question. 

 

HMPO should immediately 'automatically' extend 2020 passport dates by 3 months and also consider sending current passport renewals direct to the applicant via DHL. Unusual circumstances call for lateral thinking and I don't see any evidence of that from HMPO or BE - who should be pushing HMPO along the above lines. If I am doing them a disservice, and they are actually doing something, then they should announce the fact. 

[ImageDude]

26 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

The British Embassy have been very vocal on Coronavirus - but strangely quiet on passports. 

 

They are obviously aware than an increasing number of British expats will have issues with upcoming extensions.

 

 

HMPO are as much use as a chocolate fireguard in responding to emails about the issue.... they simply come back with a stock answer that does not deal with the question. 

 

HMPO should immediately 'automatically' extend 2020 passport dates by 3 months and also consider sending current passport renewals direct to the applicant via DHL. Unusual circumstances call for lateral thinking and I don't see any evidence of that from HMPO or BE - who should be pushing HMPO along the above lines. If I am doing them a disservice, and they are actually doing something, then they should announce the fact. 

From my own recent experiences, neither HMPO or BE are doing anything to alleviate the current passport renewal issues. I truly hope I never need their services in an emergency situation.

Edited May 10, 2020 by ImageDude

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

Unusual circumstances call for lateral thinking and I don't see any evidence of that from HMPO or BE - who should be pushing HMPO along the above lines. If I am doing them a disservice, and they are actually doing something, then they should announce the fact. 

You are not doing the Embassy a disservice at all IMHO. Their reply to a recent enquiry of mine confirming that ETD's are only issued to those with specific travel plans included the following particularly spectacular and pathetic piece of BS nonsense!

 

"We would suggest approaching the local immigration to discuss the implications of your passport and visa situation. They may be able to suggest alternatives given the current circumstances."

 

[pontious]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

"We would suggest approaching the local immigration to discuss the implications of your passport and visa situation. They may be able to suggest alternatives given the current circumstances."

 

That is a disgraceful reply  - Thai Immigration will obviously say British Passports are no concern of theirs. You should contact the British Embassy.  It is the BE to "suggest alternative suggestions giving the current circumstances. " Not Thai Immigration.

Edited May 10, 2020 by pontious

[cheekysailor]

With news afoot on the possible temporary removal of some restrictions in the UK, I have just spoken to a very helpful advisor at the UK passport office (Keith).  He said that, due to the backlog of passports which are already in the system, plus the lack of staff and the fact that staff do not have to go to work if not required. (he sounded very disgruntled when talking about this matter.) Even if the offices opened tomorrow, the renewal of passports is going to be 'some time' away yet.  I did press him on what he meant by 'some time', to which he joked they are 'way off'.   So I guess it is back to bombarding Simon Calder'

s Twitter page and seeing if he can flag this matter up either on BBC or one of his travel columns. Maybe then someone will start to listen.

[OJAS]

22 hours ago, pontious said:

That is a disgraceful reply  - Thai Immigration will obviously say British Passports are no concern of theirs. You should contact the British Embassy.  It is the BE to "suggest alternative suggestions giving the current circumstances. " Not Thai Immigration.

 

Having given this whole matter further thought, I actually wonder whether there might be a strong case for getting the Cabinet Office involved, given that the cracks between the Home Office/HMPO on the one hand and FCO/Bangkok Embassy on the other, into which those in imminent need of replacement passports are now at risk of falling, have, I strongly suspect, resulted from a Machinery Of Government change implemented in 2013 (prior to which the FCO ran the passport renewal show in our case).

 

Accordingly I have now, for what it might be worth, emailed the Cabinet Office in the following terms:-

 

I wish to lodge a formal complaint about what I consider to be the negative consequences of a Machinery Of Government (MOG) change implemented in late 2013, under which the responsibility for issuing replacement passports for British nationals living abroad passed from the FCO to the Home Office in the form of HMPO. In the case of British nationals who, like myself, live in Thailand, these negative consequences have been accentuated in recent times by the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Immediately prior to the MOG change in question, British nationals living in Thailand were able to renew their passports through the FCO’s Regional Passport Processing Centre located in Hong Kong. Since then, however, they have been required to submit their applications – and subsequently collect their replacement passports – in person from the offices of the Home Office’s local visa and passport processing agents (VFS Global) located in Bangkok and (more recently) Chiang Mai.

 

Unfortunately, the Home Office have, in their infinite wisdom, recently decided to sanction the indefinite closure of both VFS Global offices in Thailand because of the coronavirus pandemic. Whilst this decision is unlikely to have any adverse effect on Thai nationals requiring  UK visas in the short term, it most certainly does have immediate negative impacts for British nationals whose existing passports are shortly due to expire and who have, in effect, been left with no means of renewing them for the foreseeable future.

 

British nationals living in Thailand require valid passports for not only ID and foreign travel purposes but also to enable them in many cases to apply for formal Immigration permissions to stay in Thailand on an annual basis. In this connection, it is the Thai Immigration Bureau’s firm policy for permissions of stay not to be granted which postdate expiry dates of applicants’ existing passports.

 

As a result, British national residents of Thailand are, in increasing numbers as their existing passports expire, likely to find themselves in no position to continue living in Thailand legitimately – which, in practice, will mean them either breaking Thai immigration law (with obviously potential dire consequences) or moving back to the UK, which, in many cases, will result in enforced separation from Thai families and loved ones in contravention of UK human rights legislation.

 

In my opinion, HMPO could easily alleviate the problems currently being faced by British nationals living in Thailand whose existing passports are about to expire by enabling them, for at least the duration of the coronavirus pandemic, to renew them online and have replacement passports directly sent to them from the UK. However, their apparent steadfast refusal to contemplate exceptional alternative renewal methods in the exceptional times in which we are all currently living has led me seriously to wonder whether they might, in fact, be willing for British nationals living in Thailand who are in imminent need of new passports to be, in effect, offered up as sacrificial lambs on some high altar of Passport Security.

 

For their part, neither has the Bangkok Embassy shown any willingness to assist British national residents of Thailand who are in imminent need of replacement passports in their current plight. In my view they could easily issue emergency travel documents in lieu of expired passports but they steadfastly refuse to do so in the case of British nationals with no specific and imminent plans for foreign travel (as most of those who are residents of Thailand do not) for some ridiculous reason.

 

I have serious doubts as to whether either HMPO or the British Embassy in Bangkok are fully grasped of the overall gravity of the situation with which British national residents of Thailand who are in imminent need to replacement passports are faced, as they work in their respective silos with blinkers apparently firmly fixed. In my opinion, there is an urgent need for heads to be knocked together in the Home Office/HMPO and the FCO/Bangkok Embassy on this whole issue, which, I suspect, the Cabinet Office would probably be best placed to mastermind, particularly given the MOG change to which I have referred.

 

[Saltire]

I had an appointment in the Glasgow passport office as part of my now cancelled trip home on May 26.

 

My passport has till August next year but has only 2 pages left. I need to renew it before my extension is due in November or I will not get the full year, only 9 months but I can live with that.

 

I emailed the HMPO to cancel and they told me to wait till nearer the date and they would email me a confirmation 21 days before the appointment with my options to cancel or rearrange. No email as yet, as it was due on the 5th May.

 

I have no plan now to go to the UK for obvious reasons so I am dependent on VFS reopening. I assume when they do, unless an alternative is put in place, there will be a mad rush and a huge backlog for processing. There is no refund in this so I am not going to waste my time chasing them up and will wait for news on VFS.

 

This is a ridiculous state of affairs. The UK in Thailand page seem only interested in publishing flights for those wanting to go home. I assume there are many other countries having the same issue with UK expat passports. 

[NanLaew]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:17 PM, pontious said:

On 5/10/2020 at 3:32 PM, OJAS said:

"We would suggest approaching the local immigration to discuss the implications of your passport and visa situation. They may be able to suggest alternatives given the current circumstances."

 

That is a disgraceful reply  - Thai Immigration will obviously say British Passports are no concern of theirs. You should contact the British Embassy.  It is the BE to "suggest alternative suggestions giving the current circumstances. " Not Thai Immigration.

The British Foreign Office and Passport Office has absolutely no say in what Thai Immigration can allow. This applies to the Immigration laws of any other country where the UK passport holder finds themselves. The passport holder is in a foreign country and subject to the laws and regulations of that foreign country. Hence the rather obvious advice to ask the Immigration department of the country they are stuck in. The Thai Immigration department along with other countries has already made special allowances for those caught outside their homeland.

[NanLaew]

On 5/9/2020 at 4:28 PM, cheekysailor said:

I have just spoke with the passport office back in the UK, at present give no confirmation on when the passport office will be open again.  The one thing the assistant did assure me is that due to the restrictions in force it is going to be a long drawn out process. Currently, I am here in Thailand and my passport expires in Jul. I attempted to get the ball rolling in March to no avail, now with no concrete direction in which to turn does anyone have any advice they would like to share with me in this matter.  Any help is appreciated.

A nation cannot deny entry to one of their nationals due to the passport issued to the holder by that nation being expired. Thus the only country that will accept an expired UK passport is the UK. Thai Immigration will not have an issue and the airline will not deny boarding unless the flight has stopovers and the restrictions of that third country may prevail. Best buy a non-stop to whatever London airport is still in business.

[pontious]

51 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The British Foreign Office and Passport Office has absolutely no say in what Thai Immigration can allow. This applies to the Immigration laws of any other country where the UK passport holder finds themselves. The passport holder is in a foreign country and subject to the laws and regulations of that foreign country. Hence the rather obvious advice to ask the Immigration department of the country they are stuck in. The Thai Immigration department along with other countries has already made special allowances for those caught outside their homeland.

And the law and regulations in Thailand state a foreigner must have a valid passport for use as ID.

GOVUK has a duty to provide a service to apply  / renew passports. Since April 1st [ six weeks ago today ] they have removed that ability -and no sign when it will be reinstated. 

[NanLaew]

6 minutes ago, pontious said:

And the law and regulations in Thailand state a foreigner must have a valid passport for use as ID.

GOVUK has a duty to provide a service to apply  / renew passports. Since April 1st [ six weeks ago today ] they have removed that ability -and no sign when it will be reinstated. 

So you are concerned about the Thai police enforcing a Thai law?

 

Sorry, I thought we were trying to have a serious debate here.

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The British Foreign Office and Passport Office has absolutely no say in what Thai Immigration can allow. This applies to the Immigration laws of any other country where the UK passport holder finds themselves. The passport holder is in a foreign country and subject to the laws and regulations of that foreign country. Hence the rather obvious advice to ask the Immigration department of the country they are stuck in. The Thai Immigration department along with other countries has already made special allowances for those caught outside their homeland.

So precisely on what grounds do you think that Brits with expired passports are likely to have a stronger say in what their local immigration office will allow than the FCO and HMPO are likely to have in what the Immigration Bureau will allow?

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So you are concerned about the Thai police enforcing a Thai law?

 

Sorry, I thought we were trying to have a serious debate here.

So I take it that you would not be in the slightest bit concerned if you were stopped by the BIB for an ID check and, upon producing an out-of-date passport, frog-marched off to the IDC for immediate deportation (on the basis that it is impossible to stay in Thailand legitimately on an expired passport).

Edited May 12, 2020 by OJAS

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, NanLaew said:

A nation cannot deny entry to one of their nationals due to the passport issued to the holder by that nation being expired. Thus the only country that will accept an expired UK passport is the UK. Thai Immigration will not have an issue and the airline will not deny boarding unless the flight has stopovers and the restrictions of that third country may prevail. Best buy a non-stop to whatever London airport is still in business.

 

You clearly missed this subsequent comment, then!

 

On 5/10/2020 at 1:54 PM, cheekysailor said:

As for going back to the UK which has been mentioned in another post, this is not an ideal scenario either as I work here in Thailand.  It is not practical to tell my boss I am going back to the UK.......  Oh and by the way, I don't know when I will be back.  Could be a month minimum, could be five. Let's take every day as it comes.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by OJAS

[cheekysailor]

After four hours of phone calls with HMPO and the British Consular the only advice is to wait.  The British Consular clearly do not know the procedures for applying for a passport here in Thailand.  They were unaware of VFS and recommended that I apply for passport extension (a procedure that has not been in place for the last ten years, according to HMPO)

They then nonchalantly asked why I could not come back home to live in the UK. Not the response I was looking for. After explaining that I not only work here, I have responsibilities such as pets, plus the added factor that I have no where to stay in the UK. (I do but I was not going to mention that.) I was then advised to file a complaint,  a procedure to which I have already completed but has fallen on deaf ears.  Her recommendation was  to try again!  I was then informed, 'this has already been addressed and they are looking into extending visas and passports'.  When I asked her for any documentation stating such she failed to deliver.  HMPO also stated to wait until VFS opens.  

 

[pontious]

1 hour ago, cheekysailor said:

After four hours of phone calls with HMPO and the British Consular the only advice is to wait.  The British Consular clearly do not know the procedures for applying for a passport here in Thailand.  They were unaware of VFS and recommended that I apply for passport extension (a procedure that has not been in place for the last ten years, according to HMPO)

They then nonchalantly asked why I could not come back home to live in the UK. Not the response I was looking for. After explaining that I not only work here, I have responsibilities such as pets, plus the added factor that I have no where to stay in the UK. (I do but I was not going to mention that.) I was then advised to file a complaint,  a procedure to which I have already completed but has fallen on deaf ears.  Her recommendation was  to try again!  I was then informed, 'this has already been addressed and they are looking into extending visas and passports'.  When I asked her for any documentation stating such she failed to deliver.  HMPO also stated to wait until VFS opens.  

 

I can imagine your frustration. You will not, definitely not, get a passport in two months before it expires in July even if VFS opens tomorrow. Have you phoned the Emergency  number on the BE website.? I cannot think of any alternative for you. 

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, cheekysailor said:

I was then advised to file a complaint,  a procedure to which I have already completed but has fallen on deaf ears.  Her recommendation was  to try again! 

If you would like to have a further crack, I'd be more than happy for you to use the wording of my latest complaint as set out in post #34. And you might like to email the Cabinet Office yourself this time (instead of bashing your head on a brick wall with HMPO yet again) since they will hopefully be able to knock FCO and HMPO heads together on this whole issue (their email address is [email protected]). IMHO the more people who inform the Cabinet Office that the government machine is not operating as smoothly as it should be in the case of passport renewals from Thailand at the present time, the better.

[cheekysailor]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

If you would like to have a further crack, I'd be more than happy for you to use the wording of my latest complaint as set out in post #34. And you might like to email the Cabinet Office yourself this time (instead of bashing your head on a brick wall with HMPO yet again) since they will hopefully be able to knock FCO and HMPO heads together on this whole issue (their email address is [email protected]). IMHO the more people who inform the Cabinet Office that the government machine is not operating as smoothly as it should be in the case of passport renewals from Thailand at the present time, the better.

Thanks.  I will do.

[jayboy]

On 5/10/2020 at 1:07 PM, pontious said:

A good suggestion for at least those with applications already in. But why are we as citizens looking for alternatives. It is not our job. The BE must be aware from the amount of emails / phone calls they are receiving there is a growing problem regarding Passport Renewals - they should be looking at alternatives with HMPO- not us. On the BE website passports are not mentioned at all. There silence on the matter is simply unacceptable and a disgrace.

That is a very unfair comment.The Embassy is fully engaged in more important matters such as gearing up for another series of diversity workshops, not to mention decorating their <deleted>ty new premises in Sathorn.

[NanLaew]

19 hours ago, OJAS said:

So precisely on what grounds do you think that Brits with expired passports are likely to have a stronger say in what their local immigration office will allow than the FCO and HMPO are likely to have in what the Immigration Bureau will allow?

People of all nationalities are stuck in loads of third countries due to Covid-19. There's probably a fair amount of them with passports that will either have expired or will be expiring soon. Some of these will be in countries that may have absolutely no UK government representation. Foreign government's are taking extraordinary steps to extend legal immigration protections to travelers thus inconvenienced. Brits whining about VFS on this forum is all a bit of an irrelevant luxury.

 

19 hours ago, OJAS said:

So I take it that you would not be in the slightest bit concerned if you were stopped by the BIB for an ID check and, upon producing an out-of-date passport, frog-marched off to the IDC for immediate deportation (on the basis that it is impossible to stay in Thailand legitimately on an expired passport).

Why should I worry about a scenario that will never happen to the totally legal and above board foreigner 'trapped' in Thailand?

 

19 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

You clearly missed this subsequent comment, then!

 

On 5/10/2020 at 1:54 PM, cheekysailor said:

As for going back to the UK which has been mentioned in another post, this is not an ideal scenario either as I work here in Thailand.  It is not practical to tell my boss I am going back to the UK.......  Oh and by the way, I don't know when I will be back.  Could be a month minimum, could be five. Let's take every day as it comes.

 

Ideal scenarios went out the window with the travel restrictions and border closures back in March. He can maybe have a deep and meaningful chat with fellow members who are currently stuck OUTSIDE Thailand and separated from their families here since before March.

[OJAS]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:27 AM, NanLaew said:

Brits whining about VFS on this forum is all a bit of an irrelevant luxury.

Yep, how dare those reprobates with imminently-expiring passports do anything other than heap fulsome praise on the With-It Tower Passport Renewal Experience to the very highest heavens as if it was the best thing since sliced bread. All the more reason for this to be done, of course, while its delights are not available to be savoured and appreciated by one and all.

Edited May 14, 2020 by OJAS

[hotandsticky]

GOV.UK

	COVID-19: In line with public health guidance, we continue to work with fewer staff. We are still unable to advise when a passport will be issued if your application is successful, and are sorry for the inconvenience caused. Please do not contact us about progress: we will process your application as soon as we can.

[Yorkshire Tea]

24 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

GOV.UK

	COVID-19: In line with public health guidance, we continue to work with fewer staff. We are still unable to advise when a passport will be issued if your application is successful, and are sorry for the inconvenience caused. Please do not contact us about progress: we will process your application as soon as we can.

They should be prioritising applications from overseas, as people in UK aren't gonna need one soon.