UK Passport issues during COVID-19

[theoldgit]

13 hours ago, Upnotover said:

The subject has been discussed here several times over the years and apparently no, the UK doesnt immediately share information about cancelled passports with other countries, if indeed ever. 

 

HMPO certainly state on their website that whilst an applicant for a new passport from within Thailand is allowed to retain their passport for ID purposes, it is not valid for travel, and whilst I have seen claims that some people have done so, I'm not sure it's a risk I'd wish to take.

 

I am aware that HMPO have the facility to cancel passports electronically, but I'm not sure that they do so routinely.

[hotandsticky]

14 hours ago, OJAS said:

Not so sure about that. Might it not become apparent to an IO at BKK Departures that the passport of someone en route back to the UK had been electronically cancelled after he or she had swiped the photopage through a scanner in accordance with standard practice?

 

 

 

Is there a problem with a British citizen traveling back to the UK on a cancelled passport ?

[hotandsticky]

21 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

 

HMPO certainly state on their website that whilst an applicant for a new passport from within Thailand is allowed to retain their passport for ID purposes, it is not valid for travel, and whilst I have seen claims that some people have done so, I'm not sure it's a risk I'd wish to take.

 

I am aware that HMPO have the facility to cancel passports electronically, but I'm not sure that they do so routinely.

 

 

I traveled to Cambodia (land border) on a cancelled passport - although VfS had omitted to cut off the corner. I had the new passport with me just in case. 

 

 

I got the distinct impression that until Thai Immigration actually see and update the new passport you are OK with the old one.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

Is there a problem with a British citizen traveling back to the UK on a cancelled passport ?

Getting back into the UK should be no problem; exiting Thailand, on the other hand, might be.

 

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

I traveled to Cambodia (land border) on a cancelled passport - although VfS had omitted to cut off the corner. I had the new passport with me just in case. 

Did the IO's on the Thai side (and, for that matter, their Cambodian counterparts) swipe your cancelled passport's photopage through a scanner? While this is standard practice at airports, I'm not sure whether it is at land borders. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by OJAS

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

I am aware that HMPO have the facility to cancel passports electronically, but I'm not sure that they do so routinely.

Which could explain their insistence on passports being cancelled physically - either when replacement passports are collected in our case or through existing passports being sent to HMPO in the UK for this purpose in the case of those countries for which use of the online renewal facility is permitted. Maybe it's high time for someone in HMPO to realise that we're now almost 20 years into the 21st Century, and that electronic cancellations should therefore be the rule rather than the exception these days!

Edited May 24, 2020 by OJAS

[ImageDude]

One thing for sure is that Covid-19 has exposed issues and flaws with the current procedure for renewing UK passports from within Thailand. It has also highlighted the gross incompetence, unhelpfulness and on occasions downright unfriendliness of some of the staff at HMPO.

 

As you all know, I was bullied into sending my old passport to HMPO Liverpool before they would consider processing my application. So, eventually I reluctantly I sent it and I know that it was received and signed for on May 5^th.

 

I sent further emails to get confirmation that my passport had been received and was now united with my original application. After 5 replies I got the answer that my application was being looked at and therefore my passport must be with the application. That was as good an answer as I was going to get from that individual.

 

Yesterday (yes they were open on Saturday) I contacted HMPO with the request that if my application was completed, and they were unable to send out the new passport. Would HMPO at least consider sending back my old passport to me, figuring that something would be better than nothing. The reply stated that my old passport was not with the original application and nobody knew where it was, but they would make further enquiries!  any ideas where to go to from here?

Edited May 24, 2020 by ImageDude

[hotandsticky]

53 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Getting back into the UK should be no problem; exiting Thailand, on the other hand, might be.

 

Did the IO's on the Thai side (and, for that matter, their Cambodian counterparts) swipe your cancelled passport's photopage through a scanner? While this is standard practice at airports, I'm not sure whether it is at land borders. 

 

 

It was Chong Chom/Osmach.

 

 

As I recall on the Thai side they placed the passport face down on, what I assume to be, a scanner. In any event they pulled the details up on their screen. I am 99% certain that whilst HMPO would have cancelled my passport, on issuing the new one, there is no linkage to Thai systems - which only get updated when you present the new passport. 

 

I can't recall the picture of what happened on the Cambodian side but this before they had the fingerprint scanners,

[PremiumLane]

I put an application in at VPS on the last day before they closed. My passport expires end of December and I called HMPO a few weeks ago to check if they had cancelled my current passport electronically (they had received my application and charged me). I was told it wasn't cancelled and I did a visa renewal on Wednesday with no problems. 

 

However, HMPO did say that they needed my current passport back to proceed with the application. I did tell them that in Thailand you keep the passport and they cancel it electronically, but they kept saying I should send it back. I tried to contact VPS, they are useless and even through the British Embassy says they are monitoring their email address, they never reply. Finally did get to speak to someone at the British Embassy, the initial phone calls to them were like pulling teeth trying to get them to help in any small way. The subsequent response I got from the Embassy is that HMPO will process the application with just the copies of the passport (if the application is from Thailand). 

 

The whole thing is a mess, but this is what you get with an already pretty useless embassy and a passport service that has been farmed out to a private corporation who will still get paid whatever mess they cause. 

[hotandsticky]

2 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

I put an application in at VPS on the last day before they closed. My passport expires end of December and I called HMPO a few weeks ago to check if they had cancelled my current passport electronically (they had received my application and charged me). I was told it wasn't cancelled and I did a visa renewal on Wednesday with no problems. 

 

However, HMPO did say that they needed my current passport back to proceed with the application. I did tell them that in Thailand you keep the passport and they cancel it electronically, but they kept saying I should send it back. I tried to contact VPS, they are useless and even through the British Embassy says they are monitoring their email address, they never reply. Finally did get to speak to someone at the British Embassy, the initial phone calls to them were like pulling teeth trying to get them to help in any small way. The subsequent response I got from the Embassy is that HMPO will process the application with just the copies of the passport (if the application is from Thailand). 

 

The whole thing is a mess, but this is what you get with an already pretty useless embassy and a passport service that has been farmed out to a private corporation who will still get paid whatever mess they cause. 

 

 

VfS..................... 

 

 

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT that the blame here rests solely with the UK authorities (Not VfS) . In this case HMPO have been consistently and (unusually in my experience) unhelpful/inaccurate. The British embassy have proved themselves again to be impotent and, whilst I can accept Davidson's argument that they are at the mercy of UK government departments, you really have to question the value of their role when it comes to actual - on the ground - practical issues.

[cheekysailor]

It has become glaringly obvious that both the consular and HMPO do not know how passport renewals in Thailand are operated.  One HMPO 'advisor' asked me to apply for an overseas passport and then same advisor was not aware of VPS.  If anybody has any specific email addresses for HMPO,  (I have used the generic ones to no avail) it would be greatly appreciated.

[Yorkshire Tea]

2 hours ago, ImageDude said:

 

 

Yesterday (yes they were open on Saturday) I contacted HMPO with the request that if my application was completed, and they were unable to send out the new passport. Would HMPO at least consider sending back my old passport to me, figuring that something would be better than nothing. The reply stated that my old passport was not with the original application and nobody knew where it was, but they would make further enquiries!  any ideas where to go to from here?

 

So, what happens when you eventually receive your new passport, without your old passport?  How will Thai immigration react when you present an empty passport, with no entry stamp?

[ImageDude]

12 minutes ago, Yorkshire Tea said:

 

So, what happens when you eventually receive your new passport, without your old passport?  How will Thai immigration react when you present an empty passport, with no entry stamp?

I have no clue, but obviously things are going to get far more interesting for me, to say the least. The biggest problem is that no one person is dealing with it. Each time I make enquiries, a different person responds and I have to go over the same ground each time. Nobody is prepared to own it and see it through to a satisfactory conclusion.

Edited May 24, 2020 by ImageDude

[pontious]

4 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

HMPO will process the application with just the copies of the passport (if the application is from Thailand). 

No they do not - that is what it says in the rules. Some HMPO do not know that - even though one poster sent them the relevant page.

Get on the   phone Monday and tell the boss of HMPO that some of there operatives are telling people to send there passports. Remind all your operatives that Thailand only send copies. !!!!!! Then email the same thing.

Just to clarify the phone call and email should come from the BE not the poster.

[PremiumLane]

5 hours ago, ImageDude said:

I have no clue, but obviously things are going to get far more interesting for me, to say the least. The biggest problem is that no one person is dealing with it. Each time I make enquiries, a different person responds and I have to go over the same ground each time. Nobody is prepared to own it and see it through to a satisfactory conclusion.

If you have the old passport number you will be OK, they can look that up on their system. I had a damaged passport some years ago, I sent it to Hong Kong to get a replacement and only got the new one back. At immigration I just gave them my old passport number.

[PremiumLane]

2 hours ago, pontious said:

No they do not - that is what it says in the rules. Some HMPO do not know that - even though one poster sent them the relevant page.

Get on the   phone Monday and tell the boss of HMPO that some of there operatives are telling people to send there passports. Remind all your operatives that Thailand only send copies. !!!!!! Then email the same thing.

Just to clarify the phone call and email should come from the BE not the poster.

They don't know their <deleted> from their elbow - I have the Bangkok Embassy saying the complete opposite of the HMPO in regards to keeping the old passport

[cheekysailor]

Get on the   phone Monday and tell the boss of HMPO

I wish I could find the boss of HMPO. I just get pushed round from 'advisor' to 'advisor' who then 'advise' the wrong advice.

By the way it's a bank holiday in the UK this Monday, so you can expect diddly squat.

Edited May 24, 2020 by cheekysailor

[pontious]

1 hour ago, cheekysailor said:

Get on the   phone Monday and tell the boss of HMPO

I wish I could find the boss of HMPO. I just get pushed round from 'advisor' to 'advisor' who then 'advise' the wrong advice.

By the way it's a bank holiday in the UK this Monday, so you can expect diddly squat.

I think I clarified it - not the poster - the BE. They appear to be doing idly diddly squat as you suggest.

[ImageDude]

This morning I have blitzed HMPO, I have sent emails to everyone at HMPO who has replied to my queries over the last few weeks and there are many of them. Each email has the heading. Please bring this email to the attention of your office manager/supervisor/or any other superior, as it has become abundantly clear that no one at your level has the competency/ability to solve this issue. Followed by my message about the irony of how the Passport Office has managed to lose my Passport.

 

Enough is enough, they can't make things any worse for me than they already have.

[brewsterbudgen]

7 hours ago, ImageDude said:

This morning I have blitzed HMPO, I have sent emails to everyone at HMPO who has replied to my queries over the last few weeks and there are many of them. Each email has the heading. Please bring this email to the attention of your office manager/supervisor/or any other superior, as it has become abundantly clear that no one at your level has the competency/ability to solve this issue. Followed by my message about the irony of how the Passport Office has managed to lose my Passport.

 

Enough is enough, they can't make things any worse for me than they already have.

You've been a star in this whole depressing business!  Good luck and thanks for keeping us all informed.  My kid's passport doesn't expire until 20 December, but I had planned to submit the renewal around now, as our Extensions need to be renewed in November,  I'm following this thread avidly.

[theoldgit]

8 hours ago, ImageDude said:

This morning I have blitzed HMPO, I have sent emails to everyone at HMPO.........

Did you include Abi Tierney in your email offensive?

Abi took over as DG for the HMPO and UKVI Directorates in February, she used to work for SERCO Healthcare.

[ImageDude]

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

Did you include Abi Tierney in your email offensive?

Abi took over as DG for the HMPO and UKVI Directorates in February, she used to work for SERCO Healthcare.

No, I don't have a contact for her. But I did copy in The Home Office and my MP. Not that either of them has been any use so far. I believe today is a Bank Holiday in the UK, so maybe on Tuesday my inbox will be red hot! Or not. I am reluctant to phone HMPO again because I am so angry, frustrated and wound up that I will not be able to contain myself.

[cheekysailor]

Any name specific emails that you have within the HMPO please PM them to me.  I would also like add me 'two-peneth' into the mix. 

[OJAS]

3 hours ago, ImageDude said:

No, I don't have a contact for her.

Try addressing an email to her in the [email protected] format

 

2 hours ago, cheekysailor said:

Any name specific emails that you have within the HMPO please PM them to me.

Ditto in your case, particularly given your comment in post #136

Edited May 25, 2020 by OJAS

[ImageDude]

12 hours ago, cheekysailor said:

Any name specific emails that you have within the HMPO please PM them to me.  I would also like add me 'two-peneth' into the mix. 

PM Sent.

[ImageDude]

•   12 hours ago, cheekysailor said:

Any name specific emails that you have within the HMPO please PM them to me.

Ditto in your case, particularly given your comment in post #136

=======================================================

 

I am unsure if that request is directed to me. If so then please PM me.

Edited May 26, 2020 by ImageDude

[ImageDude]

Not knowing where to go next, I have been thinking. Would contacting the press add weight to our plight. I have no idea how to do this, nor do I have any press contacts. I thought maybe it would be a public interest story for the Thai newspapers initially and ultimately to the UK Nationals.

[OJAS]

17 hours ago, OJAS said:

Try addressing an email to her in the [email protected] format

@ImageDude & @cheekysailor - below is the text of an email I've just sent to Abi Tierney based on this addressing format (which doesn't appear to have bounced so has presumably reached its intended target):-

 

I am driven to emailing you by the unsatisfactory responses which I and a number of other British nationals living in Thailand have been receiving from junior staff in HMPO to enquiries relating to the current closure of the VFS offices in Bangkok and Chiang Mai and the consequential indefinite suspension of the passport renewal service from Thailand.

 

In particular, what HMPO junior staff appear to be experiencing considerable difficulty in grasping is that their apparently standard advice for British residents of Thailand with imminently-expiring passports to contact the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is simply impractical - and, indeed, nonsensical - in most cases. The British Embassy in Bangkok have made it abundantly clear that they are not prepared to issue an emergency travel document or passport to anyone who does not have a specific plan for foreign travel outside Thailand - which the vast majority of British national residents of Thailand do not have, particularly given current exhortations to avoid all non-essential travel at the present time.

 

British nationals living in Thailand require valid passports for not only ID and foreign travel purposes but also to enable them in many cases to apply for formal Immigration permissions to stay in Thailand on an annual basis. In this connection, it is the Thai Immigration Bureau’s firm policy for permissions of stay not to be granted which postdate expiry dates of applicants’ existing passports.

 

As a result, British national residents of Thailand are, in increasing numbers as their existing passports expire, likely to find themselves in no position to continue living in Thailand legitimately – which, in practice, will mean them either breaking Thai immigration law (with obviously potential dire consequences) or moving back to the UK, which, in many cases, will result in enforced separation from Thai families and loved ones.

 

Whilst I can understand the rationale for the VFS offices in Bangkok and Chiang Mai to be closed to Thai nationals requiring UK visas, it remains a complete mystery to me as to why the Home Office, in its infinite wisdom, saw fit to extend these closures to British nationals requiring new passports. Unless the Home Office has any imminent plans for these offices to be reopened for at least passport renewal purposes, therefore, I feel that it behoves HMPO to implement alternative renewal procedures as a matter of urgency. These could entail applicants from Thailand submitting paper applications by courier direct to an HMPO office in the UK – or even applying via the online facility which HMPO is generally encouraging the use of elsewhere – with replacement passports being sent by courier direct to applicants.

 

Unfortunately, HMPO’s apparently steadfast refusal to date to consider alternative passport renewal procedures on at least a temporary basis in the case of applications submitted from Thailand has led me seriously to wonder whether passport integrity must, in their view, be invariably regarded as the paramount consideration, even during the exceptional times in which we are all currently living – and whether, as a result, they were more than happy for British national residents of Thailand to be, in effect, indefinitely offered up as sacrificial lambs on some high altar to this effect when their existing passports fell due for renewal. This I would consider to be a totally disgusting and unacceptable attitude.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by OJAS

[cheekysailor]

10 hours ago, ImageDude said:

PM Sent.

Thanks

 

[cheekysailor]

Great post.  You may also want to address it to.  abigail.tierney@homeoffice.gov.uk as well not just Abi.  I will also be sending an email shortly with words to similar effect. 

[Yorkshire Tea]

7 hours ago, ImageDude said:

Not knowing where to go next, I have been thinking. Would contacting the press add weight to our plight. I have no idea how to do this, nor do I have any press contacts. I thought maybe it would be a public interest story for the Thai newspapers initially and ultimately to the UK Nationals.

Try contacting The Guardian newspaper.

 

They run a daily virus blog for news from around the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/26/coronavirus-live-news-covid-19-uupdates-who-drops-hydroxychloroquine-trial-as-mexico-death-toll-questioned

 

There's usually a contact email for whoever is in charge of the current blog.  I think they'll share your update.