In shielding its hospitals from COVID-19, Britain left many of the weakest exposed

[Blue Muton]

15 hours ago, transam said:

Indeed, but perhaps the "experts" guiding Boris should be the ones questioned...

Do you think any of those "experts" told him it would be a great idea to go around a hospital during a pandemic shaking hands left right and centre or do you think he thought that one up himself?

[hotchilli]

It's easy to blame the government... why why why.

My mother 90 years of aged passed away peacefully in her sleep on April 24th in a care home where she had been for almost 5 years.

The staff at the home were incredibly caring, each patient [29 in total] were cared for 24 hours a day like family members.

As soon as the home realised this was not a normal situation they initiated their own regime.
Each staff member was told exactly how to avoid contacting the disease, what to do at home to prevent spread, they were given strict instructions about everything by the owner.
On arriving at the facility each day they were temperature tested and quizzed about previous movements, they were given fresh clothes to wear at work [removing those that they had arrived in], followed by a thorough scrub down before going anywhere near patients.  

Visitation by relatives/friends was immediately stopped, they set-up an internet room where patients could be contacted at any time via an appointment system.

To date no staff member or patient has been infected.

They didn't wait for the government to give out belated guidelines, they didn't wait for local councils to decide how best to implement those actions.

The owner and staff initiated their own guidelines to prevent an infection coming into the home.

And it was 100% effective!

[transam]

14 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Do you think any of those "experts" told him it would be a great idea to go around a hospital during a pandemic shaking hands left right and centre or do you think he thought that one up himself?

Did the others refuse to shake his hand......?     ☺️

[Chomper Higgot]

15 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

It's easy to blame the government... why why why.

My mother 90 years of aged passed away peacefully in her sleep on April 24th in a care home where she had been for almost 5 years.

The staff at the home were incredibly caring, each patient [29 in total] were cared for 24 hours a day like family members.

As soon as the home realised this was not a normal situation they initiated their own regime.
Each staff member was told exactly how to avoid contacting the disease, what to do at home to prevent spread, they were given strict instructions about everything by the owner.
On arriving at the facility each day they were temperature tested and quizzed about previous movements, they were given fresh clothes to wear at work [removing those that they had arrived in], followed by a thorough scrub down before going anywhere near patients.  

Visitation by relatives/friends was immediately stopped, they set-up an internet room where patients could be contacted at any time via an appointment system.

To date no staff member or patient has been infected.

They didn't wait for the government to give out belated guidelines, they didn't wait for local councils to decide how best to implement those actions.

The owner and staff initiated their own guidelines to prevent an infection coming into the home.

And it was 100% effective!

Condolences to you and your family for the loss of your mother.

 

Congratulations to the care-home for actively responding to the threat of this pandemic, clearly doing nothing and allowing the disease to spread was not the right response, nor as you demonstrate the only response.

 

Taking positive action to protect their employees and those in their care - Tgey could teach Johnson and his government a thing or two.

[VocalNeal]

My mother died in January before all this kicked off. She had already been transferred to hospital. Died peacefully in her sleep.

Care homes in general provide the elderly with help basically what the military would call personal admin. Ie. bathing, feeding, all the minutia of life that gets difficult or tiring for some.  

I do not see them as hospitals for long term care patients that is different.

[samran]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Did the others refuse to shake his hand......?     ☺️

And that is the problem, when the most powerful person in the country after the queen offers their hand, you take it. ‘Choice’ becomes a rather abstract concept in these cases. 
 

That’s why you lead by example. 
 

 

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Condolences to you and your family for the loss of your mother.

 

Congratulations to the care-home for actively responding to the threat of this pandemic, clearly doing nothing and allowing the disease to spread was not the right response, nor as you demonstrate the only response.

 

Taking positive action to protect their employees and those in their care - Tgey could teach Johnson and his government a thing or two.

Thank you for your post.

My only sadness is that not being in the UK I cannot attend the funeral on the 14th May... however I have a life time of memories and will keep those with me.

 

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, samran said:

And that is the problem, when the most powerful person in the country after the queen offers their hand, you take it. ‘Choice’ becomes a rather abstract concept in these cases. 
 

That’s why you lead by example. 
 

 

Also, by shaking his hand they really could not get infected with the virus anymore.

[Logosone]

19 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I wonder if the Torygraph was hiding in his bushes all this time on the off-chance that he would screw up, or was he offered up by mandarins as a sacrificial lamb to avoid the alternative, significantly more newsworthy, headlines today?

That kind of speculation has been widely reported in the UK media. However, there are no dark forces at work. Ms Staats, the promiscuous Ok Cupid user who twice heeded Professor Sex-a-Lot's request to cross London to visit him, left her own husband who was sick at the time behind. More likely than a Telegraph conspiracy is that her angered husband or his  illustrious father who is a very well connected and highly conservative Tory contacted the Telegraph. After all Staats massively embarrassed and humiliated the Lucas family with her obliging vagina.

 

I feel for the UK because if even the very proponents of hardcore lockdown adhere to that policy as tightly as a Thai facemask, if they can't trust their advisers to do as they preach, what possible faith can they still have in their own experts and government?

 

 

Quote

Still, staff and managers of many care homes say they believe the British government made a crucial early mistake: It focused too much attention on protecting the country's National Health Service at the expense of the most vulnerable in society, among them the estimated 400,000 mostly elderly or infirm people who live in care homes across Britain.

 

Quote

The government summed up that policy in the slogan "Protect the NHS." The approach gave the country's publicly-funded hospitals priority over its care homes. A UK government spokesman defended the strategy. "This is an unprecedented global pandemic and we have taken the right steps at the right time to combat it, guided by the best scientific advice."

 

Why did UK experts  focus on hospitals and not on elderly care homes? A cursory analysis of the mortality figures in China and Italy would have sufficed to inform the UK advisors that the elderly were most at risk. 

 

In short, the UK experts have failed miserably, the UK government did not take the right steps at the right time, and that was because it was not advised competently. Their advisers like Neil Ferguson were incompetents, more concerned with going on OK Cupid to make as many hook ups with women as possible, rather than working hard on what he should have been working on.

 

Ferguson got off way too lightly. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Logosone

[samran]

37 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Also, by shaking his hand they really could not get infected with the virus anymore.

Not much of a choice is it? The risk of getting sick vs offending the PM. 

[sungod]

4 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

Do you think any of those "experts" told him it would be a great idea to go around a hospital during a pandemic shaking hands left right and centre or do you think he thought that one up himself?

I'm told shaking hands is very safe if you dont stick your fingers in your mouth afterwards and wash them......

[stevenl]

28 minutes ago, samran said:

Not much of a choice is it? The risk of getting sick vs offending the PM. 

They were sick already ????

[transam]

1 hour ago, samran said:

And that is the problem, when the most powerful person in the country after the queen offers their hand, you take it. ‘Choice’ becomes a rather abstract concept in these cases. 
 

That’s why you lead by example. 
 

 

I must be different then...................☺️

[samran]

24 minutes ago, transam said:

I must be different then...................☺️

You well may be, but then the decision really shouldn’t have been left up to you. 

[nausea]

Pretty obvious in retrospect - the care homes were going to be the killing grounds. Luckily, my father maintained his independence at 90+ with his own house and garden, mostly down to my sister's support. He's OK so far. Totally isolated of course. Well, apart from the doorstep visits.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Logosone said:

That kind of speculation has been widely reported in the UK media. However, there are no dark forces at work. Ms Staats, the promiscuous Ok Cupid user who twice heeded Professor Sex-a-Lot's request to cross London to visit him, left her own husband who was sick at the time behind. More likely than a Telegraph conspiracy is that her angered husband or his  illustrious father who is a very well connected and highly conservative Tory contacted the Telegraph. After all Staats massively embarrassed and humiliated the Lucas family with her obliging vagina.

 

I feel for the UK because if even the very proponents of hardcore lockdown adhere to that policy as tightly as a Thai facemask, if they can't trust their advisers to do as they preach, what possible faith can they still have in their own experts and government?

 

 

 

 

Why did UK experts  focus on hospitals and not on elderly care homes? A cursory analysis of the mortality figures in China and Italy would have sufficed to inform the UK advisors that the elderly were most at risk. 

 

In short, the UK experts have failed miserably, the UK government did not take the right steps at the right time, and that was because it was not advised competently. Their advisers like Neil Ferguson were incompetents, more concerned with going on OK Cupid to make as many hook ups with women as possible, rather than working hard on what he should have been working on.

 

Ferguson got off way too lightly. 

 

 

 

 

Your faith in the honesty and integrity of the UK government is greater than mine, it must be said. I (and, seemingly, many others) cannot help but notice how conveniently timed the story was. It is remarkable that on the day Johnson's callous failures accomplished a truly horrific milestone, the front pages were utterly indifferent to it, in preference for a shagger story featuring the guy who will, no doubt, be hung out to dry in an effort to shift the blame for our shamefully tragic situation from Johnson and his cabinet of incompetence. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

Your faith in the honesty and integrity of the UK government is greater than mine, it must be said. I (and, seemingly, many others) cannot help but notice how conveniently timed the story was. It is remarkable that on the day Johnson's callous failures accomplished a truly horrific milestone, the front pages were utterly indifferent to it, in preference for a shagger story featuring the guy who will, no doubt, be hung out to dry in an effort to shift the blame for our shamefully tragic situation from Johnson and his cabinet of incompetence. 

Perhaps it's just your anti English, Boris stuff, and you now take it out on the press for not following you......????

[RuamRudy]

48 minutes ago, transam said:

Perhaps it's just your anti English, Boris stuff, and you now take it out on the press for not following you......????

Usually your posts are simply a stream of tedious, childish nonsense which reflect your inability to either comprehend or articulate current affairs. That last post, however, is insulting. 

 

I request that you put up evidence of my "anti English" sentiment, however I am wholly confident that, as usual, you will fail to post anything of substance whatsoever. 

[transam]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Usually your posts are simply a stream of tedious, childish nonsense which reflect your inability to either comprehend or articulate current affairs. That last post, however, is insulting. 

 

I request that you put up evidence of my "anti English" sentiment, however I am wholly confident that, as usual, you will fail to post anything of substance whatsoever. 

I am not going to go down the Brexit, Scottish independence or Conservative Party route here, just to please you, sorry.....

[3NUMBAS]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-black-people-four-times-more-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-ons-11984448

 

Why you can trust Sky News

Black people are up to four times more likely to die with COVID-19 than their white counterparts, the Office for National Statistics has found.

New analysis published on Thursday showed black women are more likely to die by a factor of 4.3 and black men by 4.2 after adjusting for age compared to Caucasian people.

 

Other ethnic minorities have a heightened risk, too.

Those with Bangladeshi and Pakistani backgrounds were found to be 3.6 times more likely to die in men and 3.4 in women.

While among people with Indian ethnicity, women were 2.7 times more likely to die and men 2.4.

[3NUMBAS]

not much uk can do about overweight unfit people who dont take care of themselves and have numerous health problems like black americans .theye are more likely to get infected

[3NUMBAS]

everybody is learning as they go ,,theres no manual of what to do

[Baerboxer]

On 5/6/2020 at 2:55 PM, robblok said:

UK is not alone in this in the Netherlands it was also a problem to get protective gear for workers in care homes. Still it seems that the Netherlands (after correction for population) is still doing a better job then the UK (1/3 less deaths after adjustment for population). 

 

 

 

Not sure why some countries are doing better than others. Too many variables and moderating factors. Belgium, neighboring the Netherlands is doing terribly with number of deaths per population. 

 

One of the UK issues is the still open airports, allowing incoming people without any checks at the border.

 

Most care homes in the UK are private businesses. Not run or managed by the NHS. They are responsible for their own supplies and have a legal duty of care to their employees and residents. It's a sector that faced a lot of criticism before Covid 19 too. 

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Your faith in the honesty and integrity of the UK government is greater than mine, it must be said. I (and, seemingly, many others) cannot help but notice how conveniently timed the story was. It is remarkable that on the day Johnson's callous failures accomplished a truly horrific milestone, the front pages were utterly indifferent to it, in preference for a shagger story featuring the guy who will, no doubt, be hung out to dry in an effort to shift the blame for our shamefully tragic situation from Johnson and his cabinet of incompetence. 

 

Interesting isn't it. The professor who received a visit from his married lover, resigned over his error of judgement.

 

But the Scottish health chief who took the family off to their out of town mansion didn't. She admitted a serious error of judgement, given her position but stated she would not resign. Scotland's first minister said she would support her not resigning. So much for integrity in Scotland's ruling elite!

 

The British people will deliver their verdict at the ballot box. Just as they did at the last General Election.

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Baerboxer

[CG1 Blue]

8 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-black-people-four-times-more-likely-to-die-with-covid-19-ons-11984448

 

Why you can trust Sky News

Black people are up to four times more likely to die with COVID-19 than their white counterparts, the Office for National Statistics has found.

New analysis published on Thursday showed black women are more likely to die by a factor of 4.3 and black men by 4.2 after adjusting for age compared to Caucasian people.

 

Other ethnic minorities have a heightened risk, too.

Those with Bangladeshi and Pakistani backgrounds were found to be 3.6 times more likely to die in men and 3.4 in women.

While among people with Indian ethnicity, women were 2.7 times more likely to die and men 2.4.

I was listening to a female (black) senior doctor talking about this earlier today. She explained that black / darker Asians have much higher melanin levels in their skin, and that makes it harder for them to absorb vitamin D. Vitamin D is vital for our immune systems. Weaker immune systems will obviously struggle with Covid 19.

 

She has been calling for a national campaign to raise awareness, and encourage them to take Vit D supplements. I suspect no government would back a campaign highlighting physical racial differences, for fear of getting crucified by the opposition / race campaigners. 

[RuamRudy]

45 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Interesting isn't it. The professor who received a visit from his married lover, resigned over his error of judgement.

 

But the Scottish health chief who took the family off to their out of town mansion didn't. She admitted a serious error of judgement, given her position but stated she would not resign. Scotland's first minister said she would support her not resigning. So much for integrity in Scotland's ruling elite!

 

The British people will deliver their verdict at the ballot box. Just as they did at the last General Election.

 

 

Good god, you BritNats are obsessed...

 

Possibly she was given support was that her subject matter expertise was recognised as being more important than political expediency. In the case of Ferguson, he was a sufficiently big enough fish to skewer in order to save the blushes of our utterly feckless disaster of a Prime Minister amongst the more partisan of red tops.

[yogi100]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:11 AM, steve187 said:

that takes a brave person to read all of the op, my take on the care homes not providing ppe, is that it is the care homes responsibility to provide equipment suitable for the task, if it was me i would not turn up for work if the ppe wasn't in place for when i arrived, be it sad, not caring enough, or lack of commitment but my health would come first, it may leave others in the lurch. lets see other persons views

A tough stance to take but basic PPE like gloves, gowns and masks cost just pennies to manufacture and should have been made a number one priority.

 

Either Hunt of Hancock (present and past ministers of health) were interviewed on the LBC radio program regarding the lack of PPE. When was asked if he would enter a ward wearing no PPE with CV19 patients in it he declined to answer. 

 

So politicians could hardly blame health workers on 20% of a health minister's salary if they also refused to take the same risk.

[torturedsole]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

The British people will deliver their verdict at the ballot box. Just as they did at the last General Election.

What are the alternatives?

[JAS21]

Whilst my wife and I lived in the UK my mother deteriorated to such an extent that she needed constant care. We chose a Private Care Home after looking at several, it was not cheap!  Prior to going into the care home we had looked after her and later with the aid of professional carers.

 

One of the reasons that we are now retired here is my wife saying " I do not want to get old in the UK"! 

[yogi100]

51 minutes ago, JAS21 said:

Whilst my wife and I lived in the UK my mother deteriorated to such an extent that she needed constant care. We chose a Private Care Home after looking at several, it was not cheap!  Prior to going into the care home we had looked after her and later with the aid of professional carers.

 

One of the reasons that we are now retired here is my wife saying " I do not want to get old in the UK"! 

Family members now live greater distances away from each other so as the old become in need of help and care there are no relatives in the vicinity to give it to them.

 

The days of different generations being able to live in the same neighbourhood are now long gone so families grow apart and eventually lose touch.

 

Care homes for the elderly were few and far between in the UK 50 years ago because younger families were usually able to live near their older friends and relatives. However the lack of availability of housing soon put paid to that in many parts of the UK. Some refer to this situation as one of the benefits of mass immigration.