Black listed, need to return for urgent medial reasons

[NorthernRyland]

My Father (American) was black listed from Thailand about 8 years ago now (marijuana) on a 5 year ban and has still not been able to secure re-entry although the ban is technically expired (another issue as to why he hasn't done this, I don't understand the laws). He settled in Cambodia where he is to this day.

 

It's not certain what happened but it's believed he contracted COVID a couple months ago (tests came back negative but this was March when we got sick initially) and complications have lead to serious heart conditions that landed him in the hospital in Phnom Pen. Due to the chaos of the borders closing, the Thai hospital he's at has no actual doctors that can perform a heart surgery (he needs with a weeks time) because they all left to Thailand. The only other hospital which has a capable doctor (yes, one doctor) is a local hospital which is a total dump. This is the best hospital we could find in Cambodia.

 

The hospital said they can fly with him back to Thailand on a medical exemption for the border closures but that doesn't guarantee anything with his visa history and black listing.

 

These are extraordinary circumstances at an unprecedented point in history but is there any option for entry into Thailand for a person is his situation?

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Somebody here has to contact immigration to get the 5 year ban cleared from their system.

Perhaps the hospital here has contacts with immigration that could inquire about it. It should not be a big problem to get it done.

[NorthernRyland]

I don't understand this either. He has a lawyer. They make it sound like the only way back in is  to bribe some official but due to the political situation they haven't been able to bribe anyone. I know, that sounds ridiculous to me also but that's what they've been telling me.

 

I'll see if someone can contact the lawyer again. What do you contact immigration? Just a phone call and that's it? 

[ubonjoe]

In person at immigration with a copy of his passport. If it is not the same one he had when he was banned a copy of it would be good to have or at least its number.

[NorthernRyland]

That's it? Any immigration in particular? I'm in Chiang Mai and my brother is in Bangkok. This is something his lawyer could have done 3 years ago. Doesn't make any sense.

[NorthernRyland]

Talking to my brother who's had contact with the lawyers and he says the process is that he must "plea" to the government to readmit him which involves going to court and having a character witness of high rank in the government (I forgot that detail). Apparently the system is corrupt and securing a character witness means bribery and given the political situation with the military no one has been willing to do this.

 

So if you believe the lawyers the ban isn't just 5 years, but rather 5 years AND plea process which isn't guaranteed.

[cleopatra2]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Somebody here has to contact immigration to get the 5 year ban cleared from their system.

Perhaps the hospital here has contacts with immigration that could inquire about it. It should not be a big problem to get it done.

Assuming that the person when blacklisted was either deported or their permission of stay revoked. Then they would fall in to the category of persons excluded entry section 12 (11) immigration act ?

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Assuming that the person when blacklisted was either deported or their permission of stay revoked. Then they would fall in to the category of persons excluded entry section 12 (11) immigration act ?

We don't know the full story about what occured 8 years ago so it is difficult to have a opinion about it.

I don't think immigration on entry to the country would even have access to such records needed for that denial.

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Talking to my brother who's had contact with the lawyers and he says the process is that he must "plea" to the government to readmit him which involves going to court and having a character witness of high rank in the government (I forgot that detail). Apparently the system is corrupt and securing a character witness means bribery and given the political situation with the military no one has been willing to do this.

That sounds like that is what would be required to remove a ban from the country that had not expired yet.

A 5 year ban certainly should not require that. It seems nobody has actually contacted immigration about it.

[NorthernRyland]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

We don't know the full story about what occured 8 years ago so it is difficult to have a opinion about it.

I don't think immigration on entry to the country would even have access to such records needed for that denial.

He was arrested and detained, maybe it was more serious for that reason.

[cleopatra2]

5 minutes ago, genericptr said:

He was arrested and detained, maybe it was more serious for that reason.

Can you say if prosecution and court case transpired.

If convicted at court did the court issue the entry ban.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, genericptr said:

He was arrested and detained, maybe it was more serious for that reason.

It depends upon the quantity of marijuana he was caught with. Sometimes the 5 year ban was agreed too before it even went to court.

[cleopatra2]

27 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It depends upon the quantity of marijuana he was caught with. Sometimes the 5 year ban was agreed too before it even went to court.

The quantity is only relevant for differentiate supply or use

 

At the time of OP Kratom was a class V drug illegal to possess.

The penalty for possession was up to 1 year and/or 20,000 fine.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

It depends upon the quantity of marijuana he was caught with. Sometimes the 5 year ban was agreed too before it even went to court.

I don't know if he even went to court. Talking to my brother now he said there is a plea process and if it's denied this further compounds the ban and could be another 5 years. The lawyer for this reason suggests to get a high ranking character witness but we've not able to do this thus far. That's all we know and it's too late anyways so unless there is some special exemption we're going to have to give up on Thailand.

 

We'll try to contact the American embassy in Cambodia tomorrow and see if they have any special contacts or anything. In theory he could go to Singapore of Malaysia if the travel restrictions were lifted.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Talking to my brother now he said there is a plea process and if it's denied this further compounds the ban and could be another 5 years.

As I wrote before I think they are mixing up his ban with one that is still in effect or a 99 year one. It sound like a appeal process not just getting it removed from immigrations records that would cause him not to be able  to enter the country.

[Captain Monday]

 Are there still flights to Hong Kong? They have hospitals there too.

At a certain point you have to turn your back on this mess blacklisted no the less.

My bug out plan B as an American always included escape to Cambodia or Laos by land then flight to visa

exempt HK !

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

 Are there still flights to Hong Kong? They have hospitals there too.

At a certain point you have to turn your back on this mess blacklisted no the less.

My bug out plan B as an American always included escape to Cambodia or Laos by land then flight to visa

exempt HK !

As far as we know all nearby countries are closed and doctors recommend he not fly anyways, especially not back the USA which is a hard trip regardless. We're looking into other countries which are close enough to fly to but the whole world is locked down right now.

 

Cambodia is probably the most backwards country is the region next to Myanmar and Laos but the best they can do is put him on a waiting list at the public hospital. Cambodia has severely lacking health resources, unlike Thailand which is packed full of hospitals. 

[cleopatra2]

51 minutes ago, genericptr said:

I don't know if he even went to court. Talking to my brother now he said there is a plea process and if it's denied this further compounds the ban and could be another 5 years. The lawyer for this reason suggests to get a high ranking character witness but we've not able to do this thus far. That's all we know and it's too late anyways so unless there is some special exemption we're going to have to give up on Thailand.

 

We'll try to contact the American embassy in Cambodia tomorrow and see if they have any special contacts or anything. In theory he could go to Singapore of Malaysia if the travel restrictions were lifted.

If the plea process fails , given the health circumstances you describe a further ban would be moot.

It would in effect be saying that there is no circumstances that entry would be given.

[Captain Monday]

Forget about Thailand even Elite visas cannot get in now.

 

[NorthernRyland]

10 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

Forget about Thailand even Elite visas cannot get in now.

 

I think so. This is unprecedented,  no one has ever seen this before and everything is up in the air.

 

I don't know if he can fly back to the USA because 1) flights are not available 2) connections are not possible 3) he's too ill.

[northsouthdevide]

I would arrange for your dad to fly into Thailand, without the knowlage of this lawyer, and see what happens at immigration. 

They will have to deal with it one way or the other, and that's assuming they tipple to any ban in the past. 

Ive actually heard a story of an overstayer who was deported, who returned a year later on a new passport (own name) and was permitted entry numerous times. 

Your dad's 5 years are up, so he's doing nothing wrong. 

 

[taotoo]

19 minutes ago, northsouthdevide said:

I would arrange for your dad to fly into Thailand, without the knowlage of this lawyer, and see what happens at immigration. 

They will have to deal with it one way or the other, and that's assuming they tipple to any ban in the past. 

Ive actually heard a story of an overstayer who was deported, who returned a year later on a new passport (own name) and was permitted entry numerous times. 

Your dad's 5 years are up, so he's doing nothing wrong. 

 

I don't think they're letting people in are they, except for Thai nationals and maybe work permit holders. He'd need a Covid certificate too I believe.

[NorthernRyland]

20 minutes ago, northsouthdevide said:

Your dad's 5 years are up, so he's doing nothing wrong. 

You have an interesting idea, super risky though. He requires special transit by doctors also and they wouldn't be wiling to do this I'm sure. Very sticky situation indeed.

 

As for his 5 years I think there's more to this than it appears. Nothing's straight forward in Thailand so it's not surprising this is the same.

[NorthernRyland]

6 minutes ago, taotoo said:

I don't think they're letting people in are they, except for Thai nationals and maybe work permit holders. He'd need a Covid certificate too I believe.

if he came back it would be escorted with doctors from the Thai hospital in Phnom Pen (even on a private flight at a massive cost). The problem is they need to get him through immigration and he hasn't cleared his ban yet. 

[simon43]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

As I wrote before I think they are mixing up his ban with one that is still in effect or a 99 year one. It sound like a appeal process not just getting it removed from immigrations records that would cause him not to be able  to enter the country.

 

Some years ago I was put on the blacklist to be denied exit FROM Thailand while a court process was underway.  Even after that process was completed and I was given a legal document from the court to say that all was happily resolved, my name remained on the immigration 'no exit' blacklist and I was denied exit from Thailand by the immigration department.

 

In order to get it removed, I had to take that document in person to the IDC offices in Bangkok and present it to a woman who was responsible for physically updating data on the 'blacklist' database.  Only after she keyed in the data was I finally allowed to exist Thailand.....

[taotoo]

1 hour ago, genericptr said:

if he came back it would be escorted with doctors from the Thai hospital in Phnom Pen (even on a private flight at a massive cost). The problem is they need to get him through immigration and he hasn't cleared his ban yet. 

I don't know what the current rules are exactly, but it sounds like the doctors may need Covid tests too, and if they're not Thai nationals they might also need special permission to enter Thailand, or even transit it. Your dad may also need special permission to enter over and above the ban issue. The flight might need permission to land as well. Given that just arranging charter flights to repatriate groups of nationals has required embassies negotiating with governments, this doesn't sound like something that you could do without getting help from your own country.

[007 RED]

OP… Firstly may I say that your dilemma is a total nightmare and I wish you, and your father the very best wishes.

 

As I read it from your original post you have two problems to overcome to be able to get your father from Phnom Penh to Bangkok for heart surgery. 

 

Originally there is the problem stemming from your father having been banned from entering Thailand, and then there is the problem of his being able to enter the Kingdom given the current Emergency Degree situation.

 

Dealing with the ban…. According to your original post you indicated that your father was banned for 5 years, some 8 years ago.  If this is correct, then the ban has well and truly expired and, therefore, he should under normal circumstances have no problem in returning to Thailand. 

 

FYI…. When details relating to a person’s ban are entered into the Immigration database the system requires an end date to be entered.  This should be in the format DD/MM/YY.  The date should be entered in the Gregorian calendar format e.g. with the current year = 2020.  A problem arises when the person entering the end date enters it in the Thai Buddhist calendar form e.g. with the current year = 2563.  Unfortunately, the Immigration system cannot differentiate between the two calendar forms and will accept both, hence it is possible for the ban to be current for another (63-20) 43 years.

 

This date error does occur occasionally and can be easily rectified without recourse to a lawyer who will no doubt try to ‘milk’ you for every Baht that they can screw out of you.

 

I note from your posts that you are based in Chiang Mai, and that you also have a brother in Bangkok.  I would strongly recommend that you (or your brother) contact Immigration HQ in Bangkok (address given below) to establish that your father’s ban has expired.  Personally, I would not bother with your local Immigration office as unless you have a very good relationship with the Officers there, you may not get a helpful response.

 

You will need a copy of your father’s photo page of his passport (preferably the one he used when he was banned).  If he no longer has that, a copy of the photo page of his current passport.  I would also suggest taking a copy of your birth certificate (which should have your father’s full name on it) as proof that you are related.

 

If you explain to the HQ Officers your dilemma I think that you will find them extremely helpful.  If the end date of his ban has been entered incorrectly, they will get it changed and confirm it almost immediately.

 

Thai Immigration HQ address:

 

Royal Thai Police – Immigration Branch, 507 Thanon Suan Phlu, Thung Maha Mek, Sathon, Bangkok 10120 

 

Tel: +66 2287 3101   Fax: +66 2287 1310  (sorry no email Facebook address available).

 

FYI….. The details of your father’s ban will not be expunged from his Immigration record, it will always be lurking somewhere in the background.  That said, his ban will not show up when he checks in for a flight to Thailand through the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS), or when an Immigration Officer scans his passport at the port of entry.

 

Dealing with the second problem of getting your father into Thailand at the moment is far more difficult to resolve.  As you are no doubt aware the current Emergency Decree has effectively closed all boarders/points of entry and has prohibited non-Thais from entering the Kingdom. 

 

There are a few exceptions, and 3.(4) of the of the Civil Aviation Authority Thailand (CAAT) Temporary Order, dated 3 April 2020 (which has been extended until the end of May 2020), indicates that the ban does not apply to: “Humanitarian aid, medical and relief flights.”

 

The question is, does your father’s case/situation fall under the category of medical and relief flight?  My personal opinion is that it probably does not as I suspect this exemption is to deal with a flight carrying medical aid/personnel to a disaster zone e.g. earthquake.

 

I suspect that this is where the lawyer you referred to said that you needed a “person of influence”, because someone with influence is going to need to persuade the powers that be to permit your father to be flown into Thailand for medical treatment which he cannot receive in Cambodia.  All I can suggest is that you contact your father’s Embassy here in Bangkok, with letters from the medical staff in Phnom Penh indicating the need for his transfer to a hospital in Thailand.  Hopefully they may know the right people and be able to offer assistance in the matter.

 

As I said at the beginning, you are facing a horrible dilemma, one that I would not like to have to face.  I wish you all the very best of luck and hope that your father gets the treatment which he appears to desperately need.

[brianp0803]

I am going to assume that your American father want to return to Thailand because he wants better medical care and couldn’t survive a return trip to America. 
 

You might try to contact a hospital in Thailand and provide your insurance information and proof that they will receive full payment for services rendered. The hospital might help on this case. 
 

If you expect the Thai hospital to provide you better quality care, but are unable to pay for it, then that is a completely different situation.
 

 

[natway09]

Singapore might be your best option.

If have the money you could "med vac" him now

[erinsf]

Seems to me, you should also be looking at Taiwan or another country for treatment.  Nobody can enter Thailand unless they are Thai.  And, I imagine a banishment will not be overlooked. Drugs are taken very seriously here.  There is no legal 'right' to enter a country where you are not a citizen.  Do look at other countries.  Maybe Singapore too?  Malaysia has okay health care.  I would look at Taiwan, Singapore and Malaysia.