Is my marriage in trouble if the in-laws don’t like me?

[charliechoc]

Is my marriage in trouble if the in-laws don’t like me? I’ve been married for 6 yrs and we have a daughter. In the first few yrs of marriage we lived in the parents city. Then we moved away for a new start because I wanted some independence from her family. Her parents recently retired and have been visiting a lot. Sometimes I only find out a day before they arrive. I’m not happy with their behaviour as described below.

 

Last year the wife and I walked upstairs and looked inside the in-laws room to find her father in his boxer shorts lying naked on the ground with our daughter sitting/lying on his back giving him a back massage. If you can be bothered to read it I reported it here:

 

Her mother subsequently came alone to stay and was with us during the covid lockdown period for 5 to 6 weeks. In the 5th week I found out that the old woman had instructed my daughter to touch her nipples. When confronting her about this I was standing up pointing at her with my angry red face- telling her this was unacceptable. My wife was more normal but was also very unhappy with her behaviour. She said to my wife in Thai ‘I cant believe you would tell him this’… She left soon after saying that her grandmother used to do the same to her blah blah… I later found out from my wife that she was scared at that moment when I was standing up yelling at her.

 

My wife is very forgiving and no doubt doesn’t care anymore about what happened. I’m the opposite.

 

I’ve noticed slight changes in my wifes personality and we are having issues about other things. She doesn’t want to talk about it anymore period. A few weeks on I can feel things are different between us now.

 

Will my marriage last in view of the fact that her parents categorically don’t like me? I know my place is low down on the pecking order but personally don’t care and will stand my ground to protect my daughter at any cost. I don’t care about their feelings if they behave in a way that is detrimental to my daughters well being. In these circumstances the ‘losing face’ thing is all B.S and I don’t care about that either. IMHO they both need to know that I’m <deleted> and serious about my daughter. I have no one to talk about this and suppose that’s one of the reasons I’m posting this message.

 

I don’t want them to come and stay anymore and its awkward to ask this. I sometimes have to work away from home and thus if they are staying I worry about this. cheers

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by charliechoc

[4MyEgo]

Dreadful position to be in, put your foot down.

 

If your wife doesn't listen, tell her your up and leaving, because you feel so strongly about this, provide her with your reasoning, along with your fears in a gentle but firm way, let her know you are her father and you have every right to want to protect your daughter and she should respect that.

 

Damn, I couldn't accept this in a million years, fortunately my wife is with me on how we raise our daughters, they are never left alone and no one stays in our place, regardless, in-laws are up the road.

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[batata]

is not good to live nearby the in laws (speaking by experience) you married your wife, not the in laws, better have some distance and only mix when it's really necessary

[London1boy]

Put your foot down and stop this behaviour immediately and teach your child about protecting herself, i.e. she shouldn't be naked around other people, people shouldn't be naked around her. No touching of her private parts etc. If you feel like your marriage is declining or your wife doesn't back you with your protective measures, I would suggest you leave with your daughter. Leaving your daughter with her mother this kind of thing will only continue until she unfortunately ends up like those young girls gang raped by the school teachers. Wish you all the best I have a daughter and if anything like that had occurred I would have beat the <deleted> out of him

[northsouthdevide]

Did you talk to your wife about how they treated her as parents growing up? 

Grandchildren are an extension of your own children, so if they brought your wife up with no issues regarding sexual abuse, then it all may be quite innocent in their eyes, though I can easily see how you would feel uncomfortable, I would talk openly and calmly with your wife before you potentially deprive your wife and daughter of family support. 

[fredwiggy]

You posted about this last year and some,including Sheryl, gave you advice. This family of yours has problems. What the grandparents have done,(are doing) is totally unacceptable. You have to protect your daughter from all predators,and the most molestation usually comes from family or close friends of the family. Never leave that girl with anyone you don't trust implicitly, and those two are definitely off limits. What that grandfather was doing is very strange behavior,and now the grandmother. Your wife is embarrassed, especially with the face thing here, but it doesn't matter. She undoubtedly knows how they are, and probably saw this growing up, somewhat thinking its acceptable.  Keep that child away from them alone. There is no excuse to give in to anyone that thinks this is normal. It isn't.

Edited May 17, 2020 by fredwiggy

[Sheryl]

Is it possible to get your wife to go into counseling with you?

 

Certainly you have to protect your daughter from this behavior but it would be best, if at all possible, to save the marriage.

 

It will boil down to your wife understanding this is wrong and finding it in herself to assert.  Which may be complex if she suffered abuse herself as a child.

[Shocked]

Take your daughter out of the country and file for divorce. 

[sanuk711]

Is my marriage in trouble

 

 

Oh boy have you come to the right place for help................................................

 

[fredwiggy]

Like Sheryl mentioned, counseling is the best route, provided you find a bilingual that's competent in family matters. Unbiased opinions here are good, but a lot of people won't listen to anyone besides a "professional". Some here,like myself, have studied psychology on their own, and may know as much or more than a shrink, but again, it's the paper they listen to. Saving your marriage for everyone's sake is always best, IF you can get your Thai wife to listen to the pattern that's going on here, that probably,  if the grandparents, her parents, are doing this,they already have to her. Her admitting to herself they are doing things that are immoral isn't going to be easy. That's why you need an unbiased professional to talk with her and explain that whatever may have happened to her in her past, wasn't her fault, and she has to protect her own daughter from the same. Predators like her dad slowly worm their way into victims lives, and a child that small has no idea that gramps or granny are doing things that aren't right or normal, and before you know it, the child has become a victim to their advances, and will take this thinking into adulthood. NOW is the time to stop it. If your wife will agree to see a counselor, that's great. If not, you don't have much else to do besides doing your best to always be sure your daughter isn't left alone with them, or anyone else for that matter, that you don't really trust, and that isn't an easy thing.You can't take your daughter away from her mother in most countries, and especially this one, as even though the courts are pretty fair about custody issues, even if you're a falang, taking a child away from it's mother is hard anywhere. You would have to prove that the mom is doing things with her daughter, or leaving her alone with someone that's a proven threat, or people involved in drugs. You\ll get joint custody, which is worse than now because then the child will be half the time with your wife, and she might not be watching her all the time when her parents are around.

Edited May 17, 2020 by fredwiggy

[madmen]

Your wife will most likely side with her parents and slowly start  to pull away. This could could take years until your so distant that you will slip away or she will, apparently according to you're previous posts this is in progress

Its sad and proof that generally buhdist Thai women and westerners struggle to find common ground.

You could wait 2 more years before its over or you could knock it on the head now.

[ChipButty]

18 minutes ago, madmen said:

Your wife will most likely side with her parents and slowly start  to pull away. This could could take years until your so distant that you will slip away or she will, apparently according to you're previous posts this is in progress

Its sad and proof that generally buhdist Thai women and westerners struggle to find common ground.

You could wait 2 more years before its over or you could knock it on the head now.

Knock it on the head now, what do you need to wait for? is this not what they call grooming you know in your mind what the next step will be

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, charliechoc said:

Her mother subsequently came alone to stay and was with us during the covid lockdown period for 5 to 6 weeks.

My Mil came a stayed too long once.

I didn't pay my wife her monthly wage as a punishment.

Mil never stayed too long again.

 

Alternate punishment would be go on holiday with the kid while the Mil is staying, leave all household bills unpaid. Let the two of them live happily together, paying for everything themselves.

 

Thai people are used to lots more nudity and lack of privacy and personal barriers in their homes, but this is your home and as the man paying for everything you have the right to impose any rules you like. Your wife has no say, her family have no say. This is not a culture where men bow to their wives.

Edited May 17, 2020 by BritManToo

[2 is 1]

I don't say your wife parent's isin't weird. Anyway trying to mix 2 different culture is always hard. 

Have to tolerate weird behavior. Ofcource not too strange! But remember , how you act looking weird to them .Imo you can't separe your wife from her family , coz it mean most to her. That way you going to doom your marriage 100%. Best way is to try tell your opinion and way in life and want she and family respect that also!

[charliechoc]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Is it possible to get your wife to go into counseling with you?

 

Certainly you have to protect your daughter from this behavior but it would be best, if at all possible, to save the marriage.

 

It will boil down to your wife understanding this is wrong and finding it in herself to assert.  Which may be complex if she suffered abuse herself as a child.

Thanks for all the replies. It never occurred to me that she could have been subjected to similar things as a child- until I read the replies here. 

 

Ive lost a lot of sleep over this and now feel ok. I would be up for counseling but think the wife is not. Actually she is very hard to talk to in general. Never opens up to me. She's not an emotional person. Incredibly hard to talk to unless it has something to do with our business that she owns/runs. 

[charliechoc]

21 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

Knock it on the head now, what do you need to wait for? is this not what they call grooming you know in your mind what the next step will be

but as someone else pointed out above, if the marriage ends then my daughter is subjected to the inlaws when Im not around...

[Puchaiyank]

Your young daughter, giving the half naked father-in-law a massage, is a possible  prelude to bigger problems later with him.  Definitely place him off-limits and under supervision when visiting.  They do not need to be left alone...

 

The young daughter does not need to be taught to touch sensitive parts of her body...she will likely discover her sensitive body parts as she matures.

 

What child has not explored their budding maturity during puberty.

 

Now, more to the marriage in trouble.  The wife sees herself as an extension of her parents and other family members.  When you speak harshly to them...you speak harshly to her.  Don't put her in a position of having to choose between you and her family.  She may tell you what you want to hear...but her heart belongs to her parents.

 

I am afraid that the damage may be irreversible...you trying to drive a wedge between your wife and her family will likely fail.

 

Do what is best for your daughter...you are the provider and responsible adult...you may want to seek legal advice to know your options.

 

Good Luck!

[pacovl46]

The kids massaging adults is quite normal in Thailand from my experience. I saw this quite frequently from primary schools all the way up to university. I asked some university students about it once and they said they do it to show respect and they enjoyed doing it. 
 

Since Thailand is very hot it’s also normal that a lot of people don’t really wear a lot of clothes around the house, especially when there’s only family around.

That your mother-in-law asked her to touch her nipples is very strange, though.

 

In regards to him, do you think he’s a pedophile or are you just reading too much into it?

 

Obviously if you don’t get along with her parents you’re putting her between a rock and a hard place and if she decides to split up she will most likely get your daughter and then you have no control over what’s going on anymore because you won’t be around, which most likely means that her parents will be around your daughter much more so than they are now. 
 

If I was you, I’d try to have a rational discussion with your wife about your marriage, tell her you don’t want to loose her/them and figure out a way that makes all of you happy. Most importantly don’t get angry or confrontational with her because Thais hate that and the situation is already frayed as it is. I also think it would be a much better idea to let her handle her parents instead of you yelling at them.
 

For peace of mind you could install some hidden cameras around the house to see what’s really going on, maybe it’s nothing and you’re totally overreacting.
 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by pacovl46

[LukKrueng]

14 hours ago, charliechoc said:

find her father in his boxer shorts lying naked on the ground

So was he naked or wearing boxer shorts? 

[LawrenceN]

Red-faced, angry shouting is bad in Thai culture, one step short of physical violence. That's what you need to address with your wife. By all means, follow the advice to get marriage counseling, but recognize the cross-cultural aspects, too. Are your in-laws fluent in English? If not, all they see is a raving madman. They didn't absorb your salient points. 

 

Time to eat a little crow. Tell the wife you were wrong to lose your temper, and you won't do it again. In the future let your wife handle any sensitive topics with her parents. 

 

I speak as someone with a bad temper and 32 years in marriage to a well-educated Thai woman.

[LukKrueng]

14 hours ago, London1boy said:

like those young girls gang raped by the school teachers

Can you provide some links to stories of young girls gang rapped by teachers in Thailand? 

[fredwiggy]

Just now, LawrenceN said:

Red-faced, angry shouting is bad in Thai culture, one step short of physical violence. That's what you need to address with your wife. By all means, follow the advice to get marriage counseling, but recognize the cross-cultural aspects, too. Are your in-laws fluent in English? If not, all they see is a raving madman. They didn't absorb your salient points. 

 

Time to eat a little crow. Tell the wife you were wrong to lose your temper, and you won't do it again. In the future let your wife handle any sensitive topics with her parents. 

 

I speak as someone with a bad temper and 32 years in marriage to a well-educated Thai woman.

If the wife was molested by her parents, she will take their sides because she learned that it was normal behavior. Losing your temper is normal, especially when you're child is in a bad situation. Err on the side of caution. Yes, getting hot in Thailand is considered a no no, but under the circumstances it's expected. You do not let your child be victimized by anyone. Child predators are lowlife animals, and the only place for them is prison. This country is in the top five in  the world in child and human  trafficking, and that sick behavior was learned somewhere. Apologizing for protecting your daughter? No. I don't know how angry you got but it can be done in a somewhat calm way. If your wife doesn't want to listen, you have to protect your daughter yourself. Counseling is best, but if she doesn't want to go, you know where you stand. Some people don't want to be proven wrong.

[stupidfarang]

26 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

Can you provide some links to stories of young girls gang rapped by teachers in Thailand? 

this was in the news last week, look on Bangkok post for the story which is on going.

[HashBrownHarry]

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My Mil came a stayed too long once.

I didn't pay my wife her monthly wage as a punishment.

Mil never stayed too long again.

 

Alternate punishment would be go on holiday with the kid while the Mil is staying, leave all household bills unpaid. Let the two of them live happily together, paying for everything themselves.

 

Thai people are used to lots more nudity and lack of privacy and personal barriers in their homes, but this is your home and as the man paying for everything you have the right to impose any rules you like. Your wife has no say, her family have no say. This is not a culture where men bow to their wives.

I agree with your last sentence and this is the down fall on many farang / Thai marriages here, the guys get walked all over.

[Mikeasq60]

Did you pay enough sin sod, maybe thats why mama and papa are angry! LOL

[HashBrownHarry]

14 hours ago, charliechoc said:

but as someone else pointed out above, if the marriage ends then my daughter is subjected to the inlaws when Im not around...

If you're based in Thailand full time and go to the courts for custody, if you divulge the events you've described here, then based on that there's a fairly good chance that you'll get full custody.

[Lacessit]

Who supports your daughter and wife, you or the parents? Make it clear to your wife the ATM will be closed until her parents learn their place. If she sides with them, take your daughter and get a good lawyer. There's no excuse for child molestation.

[Sheryl]

15 hours ago, charliechoc said:

but as someone else pointed out above, if the marriage ends then my daughter is subjected to the inlaws when Im not around...

Exactly. It is hard to get sole custody unless your wife agrees. And hard to enforce visitation rights.

 

 

Is there any chance your wife would agree to move to your home country with you? For cultural reasons it will always be very, very difficult for her to be assertive with her parents

[Deerculler]

Ask your wife if anything of this nature happened to her.

[unblocktheplanet]

Old boy, look: When you marry the girl, you marry her parents. This is nowhere more true than here.

 

I see I may be the lone voice here expressing the opinions below.

 

I am a naturist: in this hot climate, I haven’t worn clothes at home for 30 years. My wife’s parents found that odd at first but I use a pakomah to walk around. My shower is outdoors under the banana trees; this also became normal once they got to know me and my father-in-law has his shower out there now, too.

 

BritManToo’s statement, that “Thai people are used to lots more nudity” is rubbish. Thais are modest to a fault, often bathing in pathung or swimming with their clothes on! Privacy and personal boundaries are different here. But families adjust to one another. The cultural barriers for a country girl to get up on that go-go stage are huge: it only happens due to poverty.

 

I don’t see anything sketchy with a back massage in undershorts from a granddaughter. It wasn’t so clear but I presume your daughter was asked to massage Khun Yai’s nipples. Well, I never heard of that before but it doesn’t sound fishy to me at all. Perhaps it’s a cultural or family tradition.

 

We tend to look at all social interactions in terms of our own sexuality. We fathers are esp protective of daughters. (I told my own as a teenager, it was fine for her to have a boyfriend but he had to make a choice: Wood or Aluminum!)

 

We’ve all read horror stories. To be paranoid they’ll happen to your kid is folly. Don’t be a scared cat and make her one, too. Teach her properly, make sure she wears her consciousness like a cloak, and make sure she trusts her parents enough to openly talk to you…about anything.

 

If any situation concerns you, always make sure you or your wife is present and have an open-door policy made clear to the in-laws.

 

If you want to stay married & be a dad, you’ll have to suck it up & be not only kriengjai but loving to your in-laws. (In fairness, you should be the same to your own parents and should expect the same of your daughter.)

 

Your wife will always choose her parents but that doesn’t mean she loves you any less.

 

My in-laws choose my word and opinion over my wife’s. They love me dearly & show it. They live five hours away & just show up to stay with no warning. Isn’t that what family is all about?

 

Of course, I sometimes freak out. But I also find that they fill our home with love even though they sometimes stay too long.

 

Charlie, I’m not being critical of your parenting. I believe your attitude has been culturally warped along the way and shaped by news media. Try to be a bit more open, accepting and loving of your in-laws and it will be returned to you a hundredfold. Show your gratitude to them for your wife and make sure they can see how much you all love each other. You’re not in Kansas anymore; no mother-in-law jokes!

 

Just because you pay the bills, does not make you the boss, anywhere! Take my advice and always be grua mia. That's the secret to a happy marriage. She let's you think you're calling the shots.

 

Wishing you a long and contented marriage and happy family!

 

BTW, in Vancouver we have seven miles of nude beach. Of course, we took our daughter (aged 13) & her friends there in summer! Bodies should be normal not just sexualised…