Fermented fish: Don't eat it raw as it is full of dangerous tapeworms

[Kerryd]

6 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I'll eat shrimp though (love them) but they are generally raised in tanks, not open ponds. Less chance of being infested with flukes (not sure if flukes even infest crustaceans).

Oh cra p ! It turns out that "crustaceans" can be infected as well. Shoulda never looked that up. Good news though !

"Adequately freezing or cooking fish will kill the parasite."
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/liver_flukes/index.html

So if you are going to make Nam Pla or anything else, freeze the **** out of the fish first (days/weeks/months even) then thaw and use it. Or cook the **** out of it before eating.

Normally, I'll go to the Lan Pho Fish Market and buy a couple kilos of fresh (live) shrimp, bring them home and stuff them into the freezer. A few days later (2-4) I'll take them out, thaw them under the tap and shuck the tails. Rinse the tail meat, let drip for awhile, then sort into zip lock bags and back into the freezer until they're needed.
(The heads and legs go to the neighbour. She says she puts them in a blender and feeds them to her cats but I think she uses the torso/head parts to make a soup first, then feeds the leftovers to the meows.)

Edited May 25, 2020 by Kerryd

[Jonathan Swift]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems lots of Thais can handle lots of food which lots of westerners can't.

Maybe their immune system is, in general, better than ours. Most Thais are used to that kind of food from childhood onwards.

This is not something that anyone's immune system can defeat. The immune system is designed to fight single celled microorganisms like viruses and bacteria. And no, Thai immune systems are no different from any human being's.  But since the geniuses behind this story did not name the organism, tapeworm or whatever, the article is all but useless. There are thousands of types of worms that can infest humans, round worms, nematodes, tapeworms, each one causes its own symptoms and infests a particular part of the body. In most cases these worms are probably digested and/or passed out in feces. It's also possible that people have worm infestations and never sought medical help. This would be likely in the more remote areas.  

[Jack P]

But we are “omnivores”...

[Airbagwill]

"Tapeworms" ????

one needs to be quite clear what parasite is being referred to here

 

Whilst one ca get tape worms from fish, surely it is live fluke the are the main problem?

 

This kind of vagueness makes the whole article less worthy - it seems based on prejudice ad disgust rather than an appreciation of a culture that has lead to one of the highest incidence of liver cancer in the world.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Airbagwill

[natway09]

Not contaminated. The worms have been there all along.

We have this under our sink in a big jar but am assured by the girls that they cook the fish before fermenting it

[Airbagwill]

53 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

But since the geniuses behind this story did not name the organism, tapeworm or whatever, the article is all but useless.

Absolutely

[Airbagwill]

the life cycle of most parasites is vey complicated and it should r explained how various parasites ae tnsmitted - being vegetarian doesn't see to guarantee safety from them.

 

Humans are indeed "omnivores" this is demonstrated by our physiological make up and was essential to a bipedal evolution. We have a much smaller intestine than vegetarian animals as it doesn't need to be so big in order to extract nutrition from a higher protein diet that includes animal proteins.

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Swift said:

This is not something that anyone's immune system can defeat. The immune system is designed to fight single celled microorganisms like viruses and bacteria. And no, Thai immune systems are no different from any human being's.  But since the geniuses behind this story did not name the organism, tapeworm or whatever, the article is all but useless. There are thousands of types of worms that can infest humans, round worms, nematodes, tapeworms, each one causes its own symptoms and infests a particular part of the body. In most cases these worms are probably digested and/or passed out in feces. It's also possible that people have worm infestations and never sought medical help. This would be likely in the more remote areas.  

The only thing I can suggest is to go to the Sanook article and translate the details for yourself, as there's a lot more details in Sanook than the TV article, including using hamsters to test for the infestations - seriously!

[thaiowl]

Pla raa is a well known cause of increased liver cancer rates in NE Thailand

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-33095945?fbclid=IwAR0EyFnD2Ahm0gL2G5xm6SUCpA84yki1NKq8fzCRV158vgNdEuhmI-bMB3Y

[Stevemercer]

Liver fluke is associated with fish with scales. There is no danger from fish that do not have scales (e.g catfish) or any fish (scaled or otherwise) that has been properly cooked

[Winky Wilson]

Foods that ubiquitously have worms are  pork, fish, reptiles, wild game, strawberries. If you want to gross yourself out sometime, soak some straberries in salt water and see what crawls out of them. Whatever you do, never eat undercooked pork or pork blood. Most pharmacies in Thailand have parasite pills on the front counter. Good idea to take a round of pills every six months. Most bacteria, yeast, and parasites are harmless in food. As long as the food doesn't have mold, your good to go. Fermented foods are built on bacteria and are much easier on digestion than raw food. 

[keithathome]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Is there a clear connection where cancer comes from?

I.e. if someone has lung cancer, are the cigarettes, which a smoker smoked a decade ago, before he stopped smoking, responsible? As far as I know there is no clear connection.

Yes the fresh caught, uncooked fish the rice field workers eat, although heavily spiced, are linked to liver flukes and a higher than normal incidence of liver cancer in the NE

[Burma Bill]

To be in the vicinity of this fermented fish and experience the awful smell is enough! Certainly not for me. Pla Ra:-

 

[Micjlac]

Cheese can be made with unpasteurized milk. It is made with bacteria, and some is served with great blue veins of mild running through it.  Sounds disgusting to the  uninitiated.  Like some Thai foods. I don’t go for raw fish, but I’ve eaten so many delicious things with my wife and her family. Sometimes it’s better to ask what it is afterwards, as they have a way of cooking things I would have never considered edible. Fish sauce and shrimp paste are stinky, but necessary for the cuisine.

[daoyai]

Why does the headline say tapeworms then no mention of them in the article? The photo clearly shows flukes, maybe the translator is ignorant of basic biology?

[Bigz]

Just shown this article to my wife. She doesn't care and she won't stop eating this <deleted>. To be honest I think they are pretty similar to hyenas. They can digest anything including semi rotten meat or fish. They actually  like it rotten.

[The Old Bull]

My old lady eats this stuff every day. I don't know what it would take to change her. More addictive than smoking. She has to have it.

Edited May 25, 2020 by The Old Bull
incomplete

[spiekerjozef]

Tapeworms love covid-19.

[SiSePuede419]

My wife wouldn't let me eat Plaa Ra, she cooked our portion, 555.

 

I did eat raw, fermented freshwater crab.  It was black and had so many Chile peppers in it, I doubt those liver flukes could survive. ????

[SiSePuede419]

2 hours ago, Bigz said:

Just shown this article to my wife. She doesn't care and she won't stop eating this <deleted>.

I'm told on TVF that lots of relationships with ex-bargirls work out quite nicely.

 

I say, mentally they're damaged goods.  Permanently. ????

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, SiSePuede419 said:

I'm told on TVF that lots of relationships with ex-bargirls work out quite nicely.

 

I say, mentally they're damaged goods.  Permanently. ????

 

 

 

Glasshouses and stones come immediately to mind.......................

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, Bigz said:

Just shown this article to my wife. She doesn't care and she won't stop eating this <deleted>. To be honest I think they are pretty similar to hyenas. They can digest anything including semi rotten meat or fish. They actually  like it rotten.

 

 

That would explain why the rates of cancer and diabetes are so low...... not.......... in Thailand.

[Wake Up]

10 hours ago, Captain_Bob said:

If anything should be learned by the Corona pandemic it's to stop eating garbage i.e. raw flesh and rotten  animal-based "sauce". Stick with hot cooked food, canned food, frozen packed food, fresh hygienically washed produce. Not implying what specifically caused Coronavirus, but at least stop ingesting raw rotten garbage and calling it "food". People in modern countries go to charming novelty Thai restaurants and think they are eating "real" Thai food but don't know the truth. What many baan-nok chao-ban folks eat here barely qualifies as "food". Pla-ra is just another extreme example of what some people are willing to put in their mouth. 

Do you know all the chemicals and byproducts they put in commercially canned food that is grown on corporate owned farms sprayed with chemicals to maximize production per acre?  Commercial can food is not a good example of healthy food IMO.  
 

[JeffreyO]

14 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems lots of Thais can handle lots of food which lots of westerners can't.

Maybe their immune system is, in general, better than ours. Most Thais are used to that kind of food from childhood onwards.

There is no immunity to parasites...

[whaleboneman]

8 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Oh cra p ! It turns out that "crustaceans" can be infected as well. Shoulda never looked that up. Good news though !

"Adequately freezing or cooking fish will kill the parasite."
https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/liver_flukes/index.html

So if you are going to make Nam Pla or anything else, freeze the **** out of the fish first (days/weeks/months even) then thaw and use it. Or cook the **** out of it before eating.

Normally, I'll go to the Lan Pho Fish Market and buy a couple kilos of fresh (live) shrimp, bring them home and stuff them into the freezer. A few days later (2-4) I'll take them out, thaw them under the tap and shuck the tails. Rinse the tail meat, let drip for awhile, then sort into zip lock bags and back into the freezer until they're needed.
(The heads and legs go to the neighbour. She says she puts them in a blender and feeds them to her cats but I think she uses the torso/head parts to make a soup first, then feeds the leftovers to the meows.)

Why don't you clean and freeze on the day you get them? I don't like the idea of thawing and refreezing food.

[The Deerhunter]

16 hours ago, thedemon said:

 

Depends on perspective. Your description could apply to cheese.

And I also like my grapes fermented alongside my crackers and Stilton or blue cheese.

[hotchilli]

18 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Wouldn't it be good idea if the study disclosed how many samples were found to be contaminated from 73 markets?

 

I'm not trying to belittle the study, but if it's to be taken seriously, some facts to support their statement would be useful.

We don't know if the university haven't released any specific information, or if the reporters just didn't ask.

Enough to avoid eating it... who needs specifics!

[IvorBiggun2]

It's not just the fish that carry this parasite. Covis is a walk in the park compared to the daily death rates in Thailand caused by this fluke. Don't see the government doing much about it.

 

 

Quote

 

Deaths not a fluke

Some weeks ago I was taken ill with abdominal pain, constant vomiting and diarrhoea, so my wife took me to a hospital in Khon Kaen where, after 24 hours, I was diagnosed with liver flukes.

There is a simple but very expensive cure for this, which involves taking four tablets of a drug called Triclabendazole and bottles of antibiotics over 36 hours. My bill for the medicine alone came to over 13,000 baht. Having had long chats with my doctor, who told me that liver flukes cause more deaths among Thai people in the Northeast than any other disease because state hospitals offer no cure other than treatment at a private hospital, which of course those affected cannot afford. Being surprised by this information, I did a bit of research, and came up with this information from the Ministry of Public Health in Thailand:

"Southeast Asian Liver Fluke (Opisthorchis Viverrini) infection is particularly prevalent in the Northeast of Thailand. Liver flukes are found in many species of freshwater fish in the Northeast, where fish is often consumed fresh and uncooked. According to the Udon Thani Regional Cancer Centre (some years ago), as many as six million people in the Northeast were afflicted with a liver fluke infection.

Statistics released in 2009 by the Thai Public Health Ministry show that 28,000 people die from the liver fluke disease every year, which is an average of 76 people a day. This statistic is quite stunning, and seems to also include patients dying from acute and chronic cholangitis (infection of the bile tract), not just from liver cancer.

Nowhere does the ministry say that there is a cure. Why? Surely state hospitals should be able to treat this disease instead of sending patients home to die. If the country can afford such things as unnecessary submarines and war weapons, they can afford to save the lives of the 76 people who die daily.

Peter
Kalasin

 

 

 

Kalasin

Edited May 25, 2020 by IvorBiggun2

[DirtyFarang]

19 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems lots of Thais can handle lots of food which lots of westerners can't.

Maybe their immune system is, in general, better than ours. Most Thais are used to that kind of food from childhood onwards.

For worms???

 

Don't you know that these poor uneducated Thais suffer from epidemic levels of liver cancer, which can be caused by these parasites (also all the toxic farm sprays, and drinking large amounts of alcohol and mixing with paracetamol).  Ignorance is the killer.

 

No, they are not "used" to this contaminated food.  It kills them.

[QPRFC]

Give the Bplaa Ra a miss and get on the bat soup, I hear that's the new black!