All four Minneapolis police officers charged in George Floyd death

[sirineou]

In the US there are some very rough neighborhoods, cops have to deal with them on a daily bases. Sooner or later some of these involvements will go wrong. It is inevitable. If we keep burning the country every time..................

   George Floyd was no choir boy,  he had an arrest record as long as your arm, including arm robbery , 1998 in an armed robbery. Floyd, then 24 years old, was sentenced to 10 months in prison.But his most horrific crime occurred in 2007, where he robbed a woman's house in a robbery, pressed a gun to her stomach, and searched the house for drugs and money, according to court reports. 

https://www.frontnieuws.com/nachtmerrie-george-floyd-duwde-pistool-op-buik-van-moeder-beroofd-in-haar-eigen-huis/?fbclid=IwAR2CnxmCb7gmxFTem1ZlQXC88DGXeSH5mO_uFDGBwXT7CxYwALtXESoj8JU

" Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 "

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/george-floyd-had-violent-criminal-history-minneapolis-union-chief/

I truly believe the USA is going insane. 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

32 minutes ago, i84teen said:

To be clear, 2nd degree murder has both intentional and unintentional statutes and Chauvin is charged with 2 murder counts,  one of which is:

Second Degree Murder - Unintentional - While Committing A Felony (Minnesota Statute: 609.19.2(1)). He has an additional count of 2nd degree manslaughter and one count of 3rd degree murder as well. What differentiates 2nd degree from 1st degree is premeditation, NOT intent.

Interesting that some legal experts insist there is a strong likelihood of a guilty verdict for 1st degree murder charge in this case.

 

Anyways, not necessary to prove intent based on the 2nd degree murder charge in this case.

 

Ah huh...I know what he is charged with and really don’t want to get into a debate on what i meant by intent

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bluespunk

[i84teen]

12 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Ah huh...I know what he is charged with and really don’t see how intending to kill someone doesn’t involve premeditation. 

Someone premeditates a crime by considering it before committing it. 

If in the course of arresting and subduing a suspect and you kneel on his neck for 8 long minutes the possibiity exists there is "intent" there. "Pre-meditation" implies that you thought through the murder prior to having the opportunity to do so, ie., like Chauvin thinking about killing Floyd while drinking his morning coffee. Premeditation indicates a time span between establishing the intent and realizing the opportunity.

Got it now?

 

Think about the word felony, that word is key in the 2nd degree murder statute Chauvin is charged with. Also key is that for 1st degree murder a prosecutor would need to prove premeditation (or pre-planning) and there is zero evidence of this in the Floyd incident. It will be much easier to prove Minnesota Statute: 609.19.2(1) as the state needs not to prove intent but argue his actions may have caused the death.

Let me know if u want me to explain further.

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, i84teen said:

Someone premeditates a crime by considering it before committing it. 

If in the course of arresting and subduing a suspect and you kneel on his neck for 8 long minutes the possibiity exists there is "intent" there. "Pre-meditation" implies that you thought through the murder prior to having the opportunity to do so, ie., like Chauvin thinking about killing Floyd while drinking his morning coffee. Premeditation indicates a time span between establishing the intent and realizing the opportunity.

Got it now?

 

Think about the word felony, that word is key in the 2nd degree murder statute Chauvin is charged with. Also key is that for 1st degree murder a prosecutor would need to prove premeditation (or pre-planning) and there is zero evidence of this in the Floyd incident. It will be much easier to prove Minnesota Statute: 609.19.2(1) as the state needs not to prove intent but argue his actions may have caused the death.

Let me know if u want me to explain further.

As I said in edited post, really not interested in a patronising debate on what I meant by intent. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bluespunk

[i84teen]

6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

As I said in edited post, really not interested in a debate on what I meant by intent. 

Ok, I responded to your post before you edited it. I didn't see the word entry "debate" in the initial post. But from my perspective I felt you wanted me to assist you in your understanding of differences in premeditation and intent due to your interest in the subject after I offered a comment clarifying your incorrect statement(s), which I did.

[pegman]

I think they are all guilty as charged. That being said I find it very unlikely a jury in that city will convict them. It will be next to impossible to keep the defence  attorneys from slipping in one or two white guys who will never agree to convictions based on their own prejudices. Drugs in the guy's system will be used as the reason he died. Race and political bent play a huge role in the American justice system. There will be no justice, then the riots will start up again. They will be Joe's problem by that time. If how Trump reacted to the riots are the final nails into his political coffin it can be said Mr Floyd did not die in vain. 

[MaxYakov]

17 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

18 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

to stop the protests?

 

wonder what the charge would have been if the victim was white

No protests and no arrests, I doubt we would have heard about it had Floyd been white.

Or that video had not been made by the bystander.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, i84teen said:

Ok, I responded to your post before you edited it. I didn't see the word entry "debate" in the initial post. But from my perspective I felt you wanted me to assist you in your understanding of differences in premeditation and intent due to your interest in the subject after I offered a comment clarifying your incorrect statement(s), which I did.

You were wrong. 

[i84teen]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You were wrong. 

But try to think about it in a positive sense, you are smarter than you were 10 minutes prior, right....or not?

Let me know if you need any further assistance, you can learn a lot here by asking questions.

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, i84teen said:

But try to think about it in a positive sense, you are smarter than you were 10 minutes prior, right....or not?

Let me know if you need any further assistance, you can learn a lot here by asking questions.

Nope. 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bluespunk

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, katana said:

Tony Timpa was killed by Dallas Police in 2016 in a similar manner with police kneeling on him until he stopped breathing and died.
He screamed “You’re going to kill me.” And they did. As he lay dead, they cracked jokes. There were no riots. Little coverage. He was white.
Warning - disturbing video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

 

This video doesn't play into the narrative required to maintain the protesting. Worth a look, I guess it was his "white privilege' that got Tony in that position.

[mvdf]

Nothing to discuss about pertaining to what ifs or perhaps buts about the victim potentially being white. There is absolutely nothing special about Caucasians. Most here are deluded, thinking they are vastly superior than us Asians or blacks or other non-whites. Whites have an equally unpleasant smelling flatulence and feces. They get sick like everyone else. They pass away and decompose like all other human beings. Their long noses contain the same smelling ability as those of non-whites (apart from that additional skill of using it to meddle in domestic affairs of sovereign nations!). The superiority complex is atrociously nauseating. 

[Tug]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

In the US there are some very rough neighborhoods, cops have to deal with them on a daily bases. Sooner or later some of these involvements will go wrong. It is inevitable. If we keep burning the country every time..................

   George Floyd was no choir boy,  he had an arrest record as long as your arm, including arm robbery , 1998 in an armed robbery. Floyd, then 24 years old, was sentenced to 10 months in prison.But his most horrific crime occurred in 2007, where he robbed a woman's house in a robbery, pressed a gun to her stomach, and searched the house for drugs and money, according to court reports. 

https://www.frontnieuws.com/nachtmerrie-george-floyd-duwde-pistool-op-buik-van-moeder-beroofd-in-haar-eigen-huis/?fbclid=IwAR2CnxmCb7gmxFTem1ZlQXC88DGXeSH5mO_uFDGBwXT7CxYwALtXESoj8JU

" Floyd had landed five years behind bars in 2009 "

https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/george-floyd-had-violent-criminal-history-minneapolis-union-chief/

I truly believe the USA is going insane. 

 

 

That’s not the point the guy was handcuffed no excuses none nada zip zilch no that beeing said it’s a tough job to be a cop it’s easy to be a bully behind the badge or wealth in the case of trump and spare a thought for the other 3 cops caught up in this imo it would have taken great courage on one of their parts to stop it risk their career or beeing ostracized by their fellow cops it’s a snafu to be sure but imo no excuses Floyd was cuffed andno threat no excuses this kind of stuff needs to stop

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[faraday]

36 minutes ago, mvdf said:

Nothing to discuss about pertaining to what ifs or perhaps buts about the victim potentially being white. There is absolutely nothing special about Caucasians. Most here are deluded, thinking they are vastly superior than us Asians or blacks or other non-whites. Whites have an equally unpleasant smelling flatulence and feces. They get sick like everyone else. They pass away and decompose like all other human beings. Their long noses contain the same smelling ability as those of non-whites (apart from that additional skill of using it to meddle in domestic affairs of sovereign nations!). The superiority complex is atrociously nauseating. 

Yup, & we don't ever shower too. We are larger though.????

 

Back on topic....

 

There is a relevant discussion to be engaged about colour, because of...well too many things to mention, which I thought you - allegedly being Asian would understand.

 

Floyd may well have been all manner of dreadful things, but he did not deserve to die.

 

He probably had a dreadful upbringing, & vile role models. It isn't an excuse, but it goes a long way to help understand his criminal - but it seems not on the 25th, behaviour.

 

 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, Tug said:

That’s not the point the guy was handcuffed no excuses none nada zip zilch no that beeing said it’s a tough job to be a cop it’s easy to be a bully behind the badge or wealth in the case of trump and spare a thought for the other 3 cops caught up in this imo it would have taken great courage on one of their parts to stop it risk their career or beeing ostracized by their fellow cops it’s a snafu to be sure but imo no excuses Floyd was cuffed andno threat no excuses this kind of stuff needs to stop

I get all this, and  I am sure a lot could had been done better. But you can expect to throw the cops in the mud and then get upset when they get dirty. The police needs to reform it's self but so does the community.

It takes two to tango.  

A 29 year old policemen, a good family man , was shot on the head and fighting for his life during the protests in Las Vegas. Where  is the outage over that? Where is his justice?  Did the media even report it? 

  

[luckyluke]

34 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Where  is the outage over that?

in 2019, 48 officers died as a result of felonious acts, 

1004 people where shot to death by police. 

Except in statistics, no really reports in media, no outrage.

The actual case was put on tape, and viewed by millions worldwide, hence the difference. 

Cynically one could pretend, that if every case, in the future, would be put on tape, it would become "monotonous", and nearly nobody would care anymore. 

 

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

20 hours ago, dexterm said:

the main perp kept his knee on Floyd's neck for a further 2 minutes when Floyd was unresponsive and the other cops could not feel a pulse. Pretty incriminating demonstration of his intention.

This seems similar to the killing of Oscar Grant in 2009 by the transit police officer in Oakland. Kneeling on the ground, hands behind his head, yet shot in the back. Cop's defense was that he meant to go for his taser. Bull. George Floyd was also totally subdued, yet killed as well.

 

In both cases, I believe something inside the cops snapped, and they were like, "You know what, I'm just going to waste this guy".

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

This seems similar to the killing of Oscar Grant in 2009 by the transit police officer in Oakland. Kneeling on the ground, hands behind his head, yet shot in the back. Cop's defense was that he meant to go for his taser. Bull. George Floyd was also totally subdued, yet killed as well.

 

In both cases, I believe something inside the cops snapped, and they were like, "You know what, I'm just going to waste this guy".

I remember the Oakland killing, just not the same in my view.

[bert bloggs]

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What people who break the law ‘deserve’ is a matter for the courts to decide.

 

 

 

thats what i said ,they will try him and he :"deserves all he gets:" do keep up .

[bert bloggs]

9 hours ago, katana said:

Tony Timpa was killed by Dallas Police in 2016 in a similar manner with police kneeling on him until he stopped breathing and died.
He screamed “You’re going to kill me.” And they did. As he lay dead, they cracked jokes. There were no riots. Little coverage. He was white.
Warning - disturbing video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c-E_i8Q5G0

 

Dont be silly ,white lives dont matter ,we are just nasty racists ,the only people who ever kept slaves ,blacked our faces up on tv ,braid our hair and do lots of nasty things ,that any non white person would never ever dream of doing ,dont you know that?

[buick]

now it is being reported that the first two cops on the scene were rookies.  one guy on his fourth day and the other on his third shift (ever).  and the 'kneeler' was a training officer !!  he and his partner showed up later and took charge.  reports also indicate both rookies made comments - one said what was being done was wrong and the other said shouldn't we roll the guy over.

 

i find it hard to believe a jury is going to convict these rookies of any serious crime.

Edited June 5, 2020 by buick

[pacovl46]

8 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I said that.

Not in the post I quoted. You said you seriously doubt that he intended to kill him. If that’s true then this would make it second degree murder which you also said in the same post you think can’t be proven.

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

Not in the post I quoted. You said you seriously doubt that he intended to kill him. If that’s true then this would make it second degree murder which you also said in the same post you think can’t be proven.

Huh? Please show the post where bluespunk said he doubted that he intended to kill him.

[nausea]

The more you read about the background to this case - the two contrasting autopsies, two cops being rookies, Mr. Floyds background, etc., etc., the more interesting it gets. What I see at the moment though is a mob mentality, and a good part of the Establishment bowing down to it. What we need are a few more Marshal Matt Dillon or Clay Blaisedell analogs. Not passing any judgement on the rights and wrongs of this case, by the way, but it needs to be sorted in a court of law not by a lynch mob.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Not in the post I quoted. You said you seriously doubt that he intended to kill him. If that’s true then this would make it second degree murder which you also said in the same post you think can’t be proven.

Here’s Minnesota’s definition of second degree murder

 

 https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/trending/how-is-second-degree-murder-different-third-degree-charges-minnesota/5NZGNC2H4NCMRKXVRX4B7DE5FQ/

[Heppinger]

3 hours ago, chubby said:

Someday all   the folks  making excuses,  for what is plain to see,   will  know someone in their  family  thats  been abused,  and

decide that   communities, not just their  own  matter ,

 

Their patriotism is skin deep

 

 

https://twitter.com/JSCCounterPunch

Or, someday rioting, looting and home invasions will be common place in the once safe suburbs, as police officers leave their posts in droves and law and order breaks down.  just make sure you have enough "solidarity" to please everyone.

[Baerboxer]

On 6/4/2020 at 8:39 AM, cyril sneer said:

to stop the protests?

 

wonder what the charge would have been if the victim was white

 

What charges were filed against the African immigrant police officer who murdered a white Australian lady?

 

[i84teen]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Huh? Please show the post where bluespunk said he doubted that he intended to kill him.

Post 3:

"The cop is undoubtedly a thug whose actions are directly responsible for George Floyds death, but I seriously doubt he intended to kill him. 

Edited yesterday at 02:48 AM by Bluespunk "

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

I get all this, and  I am sure a lot could had been done better. But you can expect to throw the cops in the mud and then get upset when they get dirty. The police needs to reform it's self but so does the community.

It takes two to tango.  

A 29 year old policemen, a good family man , was shot on the head and fighting for his life during the protests in Las Vegas. Where  is the outage over that? Where is his justice?  Did the media even report it? 

  

 

I also read that a police captain had been shot and killed.

 

Same lack of outrage - and he's black.

 

Does suggest some other motivations.