Americans won't be in any travel bubble agreements anytime soon!

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Yes the virus is real, no its not fake. But...

You're the typical statist, duped sheeple.
...

I refuse to engage with any members that use the moronic word "sheeple" and especially when used as a name calling attack. This is just too low level for anyone's time. 

 

GOODBYE. 

[Tounge Thaied]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

I refuse to engage with any members that use the moronic word "sheeple" and especially when used as a name calling attack. This is just too low level for anyone's time. 

 

GOODBYE. 

Do some of your own research and stop listening to the MSM and the so called "authorities. 

[kokesaat]

My wife and I have been marooned in the US since Feb....tried to return in May, June, now July flights cancelled.  Over the course, I've seen the US go from being okay with lockdowns to 'who gives a <deleted>'.  Tonight in Oklahoma there'll be 19000+ people packed into a venue cheering on the president.  Trying to keep up with the state of international travel back to Thailand, I've come to the conclusion that, unless there's a remedy before the end of the year, we're not going to be allowed to return.  There are lots of sob stories from expats from around the world who are separated from their wives/children.  Fortunately for my wife and I, we're comfortable staying with our daughter.  As the days go by, both in terms of being away from Thailand (23 years there) and growing older, I'm starting to think that plans to have my ashes float down the Mekong may be in jeopardy.  

I think the longer this goes on, the more liklihood that people in the future will not consider Thailand as a potential retirement location.  

[Tounge Thaied]

1 minute ago, kokesaat said:

My wife and I have been marooned in the US since Feb....tried to return in May, June, now July flights cancelled.  Over the course, I've seen the US go from being okay with lockdowns to 'who gives a <deleted>'.  Tonight in Oklahoma there'll be 19000+ people packed into a venue cheering on the president.  Trying to keep up with the state of international travel back to Thailand, I've come to the conclusion that, unless there's a remedy before the end of the year, we're not going to be allowed to return.  There are lots of sob stories from expats from around the world who are separated from their wives/children.  Fortunately for my wife and I, we're comfortable staying with our daughter.  As the days go by, both in terms of being away from Thailand (23 years there) and growing older, I'm starting to think that plans to have my ashes float down the Mekong may be in jeopardy.  

I think the longer this goes on, the more liklihood that people in the future will not consider Thailand as a potential retirement location.  

I'm in the same situation... I agree with you totally. I do believe that this will eventually settle out. There may be some additional VISA requirements, like insurance, but I do believe we'll get back. I am looking at October for a return. My real concern is a few years from now, when the "authorities" decide we all have to take the new Bill Gates rushed vaccine, a vaccine travel passport, before you can get a visa. The, IMO, totalitarian future travel requirements/restrictions are what may be a killer for being able to FREELY live on this planet, no matter where you are. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

My wife and I have been marooned in the US since Feb....tried to return in May, June, now July flights cancelled.  Over the course, I've seen the US go from being okay with lockdowns to 'who gives a <deleted>'.  Tonight in Oklahoma there'll be 19000+ people packed into a venue cheering on the president.  Trying to keep up with the state of international travel back to Thailand, I've come to the conclusion that, unless there's a remedy before the end of the year, we're not going to be allowed to return.  There are lots of sob stories from expats from around the world who are separated from their wives/children.  Fortunately for my wife and I, we're comfortable staying with our daughter.  As the days go by, both in terms of being away from Thailand (23 years there) and growing older, I'm starting to think that plans to have my ashes float down the Mekong may be in jeopardy.  

I think the longer this goes on, the more liklihood that people in the future will not consider Thailand as a potential retirement location.  

Well, I think that's actually another issue. The desirability of Thailand as a retirement destination was already well on the decline before this pandemic. It had already dropped off the top ten lists of most of the retire abroad media lists. The reasons were obvious -- visa rule changes and seemingly constantly jerk arounds and the general feeling that retired expats unless exceptionally wealthy weren't all that welcome here by the authorities.

 

But that's not this topic. 

This topic is more general on American passports being seen as universally undesirable due to the lack of control of the virus in the U.S.

Nobody can predict the exact timing of that kind of problem, but my guess is something like two years.

[Tounge Thaied]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

but my guess is something like two years.

I have to believe, maybe just want to believe, that a solution will be presented before the end of the year. My prediction is American's will be able to come back, with an insurance requirement and some form of combined or separate requirement for pre-covid testing and/or 14 day quarantine/covid testing on arrival. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Tounge Thaied
added

[cmarshall]

9 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

The virus is absolutely real. Calling it a hoax is just foolish.

 

On the other hand, the belief that it can be contained or that it merits the kind of prevention measures we have assigned to it is very much open to debate.   The action taken against this virus is wholly political.

 

Herd immunity is the only thing that we can all say with 100% certainty will work. There is no guarantee that economic evisceration and upheaval we have wrought by these global lockdowns will ultimately be of any value. They were only supposed to spread the curve. Lowering the R value below 1 was never the objective. And it was very inappropriate for the global leaders to shift the goalposts like this without consulting the rest of us as to what our values were and what we wanted.

 

The fact that you agree with those in charge does not make you right. And the fact that many of us disagree with those in charge does not make the virus itself a hoax.

 

This pandemic will be a rich source of sociology PhD's for decades into the future.

A lot of fundamental denial of reality in this post.  So, S. Korea's program which has resulted in a death count of less than 300 for a country of 51 million somehow does not show how the virus can be contained?  Or Taiwan, a country of 23 million, that has had eight deaths from Covid?  So just giving up and letting the old people die in great numbers is the only option?  Really?  Neither Taiwan nor S. Korea ever had a lockdown, by the way, and therefore suffered much less economic damage than the Western countries who failed right out of the gate.  Or consider China itself which has had 3.3 deaths per million while the US has had 361 deaths per million and climbing.

 

The US is becoming a failed state, which along with the similarly failed states of Brazil, Sweden, the UK, etc. has abdicated its most fundamental duty to protect the lives of its citizens.  

 

The virus was always containable by using the same methods by which SARS was contained in 2003.  The US and the other derelict governments knew how to contain it, but just couldn't be bothered.  

[cmarshall]

2 hours ago, kokesaat said:

My wife and I have been marooned in the US since Feb....tried to return in May, June, now July flights cancelled.  Over the course, I've seen the US go from being okay with lockdowns to 'who gives a <deleted>'.  Tonight in Oklahoma there'll be 19000+ people packed into a venue cheering on the president.  Trying to keep up with the state of international travel back to Thailand, I've come to the conclusion that, unless there's a remedy before the end of the year, we're not going to be allowed to return.  There are lots of sob stories from expats from around the world who are separated from their wives/children.  Fortunately for my wife and I, we're comfortable staying with our daughter.  As the days go by, both in terms of being away from Thailand (23 years there) and growing older, I'm starting to think that plans to have my ashes float down the Mekong may be in jeopardy.  

I think the longer this goes on, the more liklihood that people in the future will not consider Thailand as a potential retirement location.  

Are you off your rocker?  Do you really think that the US, for example, with 361 Covid deaths per million is a more attractive place to retire than Thailand with 0.84?  Just watch while another 85,000 Americans die by the end of Sept.

 

I feel that my decision to retire in Thailand amounted to winning the lottery.

Edited June 21, 2020 by cmarshall

[Ken]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I refuse to engage with any members that use the moronic word "sheeple" and especially when used as a name calling attack. This is just too low level for anyone's time. 

 

GOODBYE. 

And goodbye to you too. As they say, "don't let the door...."

 

[timkeen08]

17 hours ago, TGIR said:

Figures don't lie ...... but liars figure.  If you're going to start posting numbers

, post them all.

I agree.  Leaving out per population of each country is only meant to be misleading information in the first place to try and prove a point.  Put things in perspective reality.

[cmarshall]

3 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

I agree.  Leaving out per population of each country is only meant to be misleading information in the first place to try and prove a point.  Put things in perspective reality.

Quite true.  Citing the absolute number of deaths is quite misleading, since they have to be scaled by size.  The statistic for that purpose is deaths per million as we can see below.  The US compares quite badly, having the seventh highest Covid death rate and still climbing.  Note the absence of any Asian country among these conspicuous failures.  Asian countries have about 1% of the death rate of the Western countries.  

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[timkeen08]

3 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Quite true.  Citing the absolute number of deaths is quite misleading, since they have to be scaled by size.  The statistic for that purpose is deaths per million as we can see below.  The US compares quite badly, having the seventh highest Covid death rate and still climbing.  Note the absence of any Asian country among these conspicuous failures.  Asian countries have about 1% of the death rate of the Western countries.  

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

But below 6 European countries.  So not #1 as suggested in some comments.  So we should trust all of the Asian numbers?  They wouldn't hide anything at all.

[cmarshall]

1 hour ago, timkeen08 said:

But below 6 European countries.  So not #1 as suggested in some comments.  So we should trust all of the Asian numbers?  They wouldn't hide anything at all.

Basically, all of the Asian countries outperformed all of the Western countries by a factor of 100 to one.  The failure of the US is more conspicuous and disgraceful, because the US is a wealthy country that had successfully lead the effort to suppress the Ebola virus in 2015.  The US had the expertise and the means to contain the outbreak, but just failed to do it. 

 

Also, the US Center for Disease Control helped establish and train personnel at other such centers, for example, in South Korea.  So, the abject failure of the US to establish a national program first to contain Covid and, failing that, to mitigate the spread at a national level is shocking.

 

All of the statistics contain inaccuracies.  At least 14 states in the US are known deliberately to underreport Covid infection rates, for example.  Nevertheless, it is undeniable that no Asian country had its hospitals overrun with dying patients as happened in Italy, for example.  So, broadly speaking the numbers reported in the Statista dataset are supported by general observations.  You are, as always, free to believe any fantasy that flies the face of reality if it makes you feel better.

 

If it turns out to be China that successfully develops a vaccine against Covid, Xi Jin Ping will release it to the rest of the world for free to reap the good will.  If the US develops a vaccine, the pharmaceutical company with patent rights will not give it to anyone.  My own opinion is that there won't be any vaccine and there won't be any long-term immunity as a result of infection, because no one has ever developed a vaccine against any of the seven known coronaviruses and there is no evidence of long-term immunity from any of them.

Edited June 21, 2020 by cmarshall

[bodga]

22 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It isn't. 

it  is, its  not even 1% currently

[bodga]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I refuse to engage with any members that use the moronic word "sheeple" and especially when used as a name calling attack. This is just too low level for anyone's time. 

 

GOODBYE. 

I refuse to engage with ones  who constantly use the word POTUS and I have no view on that guy any way.

[mikebike]

18 hours ago, Monomial said:

Herd immunity is the only thing that we can all say with 100% certainty will work.

No. It is not even determined yet that "herd immunity" can be achieved with CV-19.

[mikebike]

10 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Do some of your own research and stop listening to the MSM and the so called "authorities. 

Please define which authorities you consider "so-called". I am very curious.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Americans (enough of them) voted for self-obsessed idiot to run the country.

 

And they got they voted for -- an incompetent denyer whose lack of leadership has resulted in 117,000+ dead Americans and a country that no other country in their right mind would want to be admitting travelers from for the foreseeable future.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 hours ago, cmarshall said:

The US is becoming a failed state, which along with the similarly failed states of Brazil, Sweden, the UK, etc. has abdicated its most fundamental duty to protect the lives of its citizens.  

 

The virus was always containable by using the same methods by which SARS was contained in 2003.  The US and the other derelict governments knew how to contain it, but just couldn't be bothered.  

 

That's what national leaders swear to and is their highest priority -- protect their nation, protect the citizens of their nation. And in that regard, too many of them, the U.S. certainly at the top of the list, have failed miserably.

 

Can't be bothered to wear a mask in public, promoting fake/unproven cures, telling people it's all going to go away when in fact it's just the opposite, late-to-the-game and still lacking testing program, lie after lie, etc etc etc. And now thousands of chanting yahoos in an arena, most without masks, when the local CV infection rates are surging.... Go figure.

 

Quote

 

the President was informed six campaign staffers in Tulsa had tested positive for coronavirus ahead of his scheduled arrival -- an unfortunate reminder of an ongoing pandemic Trump's critics say he is ignoring. After initially dismissing the revelation, a source familiar with his reaction said Trump erupted when it was subsequently reported in the media -- overtaking coverage of the rally itself.

...

Once viewed inside the White House and Trump's campaign as a reset button for a presidency beset by crises and self-inflicted wounds, Saturday evening's campaign rally in Tulsa instead became plagued with pitfalls, a disappointing microcosm of the blindspots, denial and wishful thinking that have come to guide the President as he enters one of the most precarious moments of his first term.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/21/politics/trump-campaign-trail-coronavirus/index.html

 

 

Quote

 

Smaller crowd in attendance, majority did not wear mask

Trump's rally to revive his campaign during the coronavirus pandemic boasted a smaller crowd than his usual campaign events, with much of the upper sections of the 19,000-seat BOK Center stadium remaining empty. 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/06/20/kung-flu-takeaways-trumps-tulsa-rally/3231998001/

 

[runamok27]

I think it greatly depends on how you look at the pandemic. The U.S. has a lot of cases but looking at the way the numbers have gone everywhere, herd immunity is a real thing that we can count on so having a lot of cases could end up being a good thing because nearly your entire population will be immune. There is mounting evidence that these lockdowns didn't do anything and in fact, could have made matters worse. Which if anybody remembers was what the WHO and CDC were saying when this thing kicked off. Just look at states in the U.S., the trajectory of the virus didn't change much between states whether states locked down or not. 

 

Is this virus something to be afraid of? If you are really old or immuno compromised yes but then again so is the flu. If you are healthy, not so much. Do seemingly healthy people die from this virus, sure but the flu kills a lot of seemingly healthy people too. 

 

The problem we have with respects to travel is that people have become deathly afraid of this virus for what is turning out to be bogus reasons. In the end, the pain, suffering and deaths caused by the lock downs is going to be far, far greater than anything this virus could have done and it looks like we are going to prolong that pain, suffering and the deaths for a while longer. 

 

Banning international flights to Thailand is only going to hurt Thailand because people can just go somewhere else. I first came to Thailand over 35 years ago and the natural beauty of Thailand was outstanding, today, not so much. Massive tourism has destroyed nearly everywhere worth going. 

[Stocky]

On 6/20/2020 at 3:37 AM, GinBoy2 said:

I think we need to put this in perspective

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/21170/coronavirus-death-rate-worldwide/

Perspective?

It would help if everyone measured things the same way, unfortunately they don't. Certainly per capita numbers are an improvement on just a raw comparison, but it's still apples and bananas. Belgium for example includes all deaths that are likely to be CV-19 whether tested or not, and includes hospitals, care homes and residential. Other countries only include hospital deaths or deaths with a positive test result.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Stocky

[Tounge Thaied]

9 hours ago, mikebike said:

Please define which authorities you consider "so-called". I am very curious.

Its people like this, and the guy over in England who was responsible for the millions of dead computer model that erroneously scared the hell out of everyone unnecessarily. I'll let this guy articulate the issue and respond best for me... that is as long as the TV Ministry of Truth will allow me to post this.
 

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Tounge Thaied
Spelling errors

[Pattaya46]

7 hours ago, runamok27 said:

Banning international flights to Thailand is only going to hurt Thailand because people can just go somewhere else. //

And where please?

All nearby countries are closed or with similar difficult requirements.

[Tounge Thaied]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

And where please?

All nearby countries are closed or with similar difficult requirements.

Mexico fully open as well as Turkey, Serbia, Ukraine just to name a few. 

 https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/international-travel-document-news/1580226297.htm

[kokesaat]

18 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Are you off your rocker?  Do you really think that the US, for example, with 361 Covid deaths per million is a more attractive place to retire than Thailand with 0.84?  Just watch while another 85,000 Americans die by the end of Sept.

 

I feel that my decision to retire in Thailand amounted to winning the lottery.

Quite the contrary.  We're trying to return to Thailand......but can't.  If we got a call this hour that said we could return, we'd be on the first available flight out.  

 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

Quite the contrary.  We're trying to return to Thailand......but can't.  If we got a call this hour that said we could return, we'd be on the first available flight out.  

 

Eventually you'll be let back into Thailand. But likely with a list of special requirements, likely quarantine, and certainly not in any Thailand - USA travel bubble deal.

[theequalizer]

I keep seeing the comment that America has poorly handled the current pandemic. The naysayers continue to focus on the number of deaths pitched against America's population count compared to a global population. And if we only considered the stats that are being reported by other nations it does seem that there is problem with our response the the pandemic. But living in many Asian nations has taught me one immutable truth: Other nations do not like to hear about America's thriving economy, fantastic infrastructure, quality medical technology, strong military, abundant resources, etc, etc, etc. Why? Because it reflects on their shortcomings. So they will make every effort to make themselves look better in the eyes of the world. 

As a missionary, I have been a part of medical missions throughout the globe. I have made, and retained, many friendships with local healthcare workers in numerous countries. In my communications with those friends, they continue to tell me that they have been instructed not to report every death that is Covid-19 related. And in our conversations, they have reminded me of the corruption that is prevalent in their countries and the impact it has on fair and honest reporting of the Covid-19 deaths. They believe, as I do also, that America's high numbers of reported deaths are due to having the honesty to tell the truth.

I have a missionary friend living in Wuhan who sent videos of the events occurring there. From his 20th story balcony he could see three of the many crematoriums in Wuhan. And when China was reporting a very low number of deaths, in a country that has a population of 1.6 billion people, my friend said that is impossible. He has witnessed the crematoriums operating 24 hours a day/7 days a week and with long lines of trucks waiting in the streets in front of those crematoriums; trucks he saw later unloading body bags. 

Many Asian countries, including the one I am currently visiting, are under reporting the number of deaths. Blinded by their misguided and radical nationalism...they don't want to be seen as second rate nations in the geopolitical scheme. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by theequalizer
Punctuation

[elgenon]

What if I move to Korea or Taiwan for a bit? Would I be let in?

[RocketDog]

On 6/20/2020 at 5:02 PM, Pattaya46 said:

In most other countries, people have not been so brainwashed against China by their politicians... 

I see. If a person has a negative attitude toward China and its government then they have been brainwashed? 

Does it follow that if they have a positive or neutral view then they have been equally brainwashed? 

 

There is a third possibility that informed folks have independently formed negative attitudes, regardless of their nationality, based entirely upon lucid analysis of factual data over the last 20 years. 

 

I find your thesis, that all citizens base their attitudes on what their politicians tell them, unsupportable and slanderous to rational people.

 

So it's just a personal opinion. 

 

Thanks for sharing. 

[Jingthing]

China really isn't the topic here but I think it's fair to say that much of the world will not be overly enthusiastic about welcoming Chinese passport holders until they have convincingly controlled the virus. 

The bigger point is that different countries are being labeled now based on their virus response. 

With a big range from countries like New Zealand seen as excelled to countries like Brazil seen as typhoid Mary's. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Jingthing