Trump opposed to removing Theodore Roosevelt's statue from outside Museum of Natural History

[Berkshire]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some statues should go but reasonable lines need to be drawn. 

 

I think all statues glorifying pro slavery confederate generals need to go. They were built long after the Civil War to prop up white supremacism. 

 

But this is getting ridiculous now. George Washington stays. It's doubtful that the USA as an admittedly flawed democracy would even exist without him. Jefferson stays. Christopher Columbus stays. What are they going to do? Change the name of the District of Columbia? 

 

I do understand the issues with this Teddy Roosevelt statue but I think it belongs on the side of the line of statues that can stay. 

 

People should focus on the confederate civil war stuff. Otherwise that movement will be diluted and invite a backlash. 

Agree.  Some Democrats, mostly on the far left, seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  Trump has been such a dismal failure as President, on nearly every front.  He's destined to be demolished in November.  But if certain elements keep pushing the "defund the police" or "remove all statues" narrative, this may give Trump some hope.  There are certain Americans who can hate Trump, but are susceptible to the "law and order" and "culture" arguments and may just go with Trump to maintain that.  Fortunately, I'm pretty sure Biden won't fall for that.  But Trump will almost certainly keep pushing that narrative. 

[ratcatcher]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I think we should abolish all statues. Remove them all.

Demolish, abolish, burn, destroy, let's make the world a better place. Who needs reminders of past greatness?

[ThailandRyan]

2 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Demolish, abolish, burn, destroy, let's make the world a better place. Who needs reminders of past greatness?

You left out ...Bomb them back to pre-historic times, reset and start again.

[ratcatcher]

8 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Do you know if Pol Pot did something similar, or was it really only the educated he went for?

Possibly. The great temples of the Angkor area seem to have survived the madness of Kampuchea. There weren't many latter day statues in Cambodia.

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Some statues should go but reasonable lines need to be drawn. 

 

I think all statues glorifying pro slavery confederate generals need to go. They were built long after the Civil War to prop up white supremacism. 

 

But this is getting ridiculous now. George Washington stays. It's doubtful that the USA as an admittedly flawed democracy would even exist without him. Jefferson stays. Christopher Columbus stays. What are they going to do? Change the name of the District of Columbia? 

 

I do understand the issues with this Teddy Roosevelt statue but I think it belongs on the side of the line of statues that can stay. 

 

People should focus on the confederate civil war stuff. Otherwise that movement will be diluted and invite a backlash. 

 

I hope someone doesn't screw up and tear down a statue of George Washington Carver by mistake.

[lannarebirth]

48 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The divisive nature of trump becomes clearer with every speech he makes.

 

He is not trying to unite the nation, his reference to 'our' history/monuments/statues is intended to tell his followers 'it's us against them', the history of America is the history of all its citizens, no matter their ethnicity. He may believe what the protestors are doing is wrong, but as president surely it is his role to try and listen and act on their concerns, sooth their anger rather use it to shore up his base support and create a siege mentality in their minds.

 

Change is coming and that does scare many people, that's why trump will most likely lose the November election. People need a leader who can guide them all not one who chooses to divide them for his own political wants.

 

trump relied on a lot of swing voters who wanted to give him a chance to see if a change was for the better. It wasn't, his entire presidency has been a debacle, and the polls continue to show those undecided voters who voted him in in 2016 will vote him out in 2020.

 

The clock is ticking. 

 

None of this has anything to do with Trump. This stems from a postmodern Maoist style of intersectionalism and Critical Race Theory that has been festering on American campuses for a decade or more now.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, lannarebirth said:

 

None of this has anything to do with Trump. This stems from a postmodern Maoist style of intersectionalism and Critical Race Theory that has been festering on American campuses for a decade or more now.

The protests are one thing [and I don't agree with your reasoning for them], my post was about how trump is utterly failing to heal a clear divide that exists within society.

 

Rather he is trying to widen it and use it to shore up his political base.

 

A president who exploits such societal divides is a failure.

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The protests are one thing [and I don't agree with your reasoning for them],

 

Yes, I know, that's why I cleared it up.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, lannarebirth said:

 

Yes, I know, that's why I cleared it up.

Yep, it's very clear what you want to believe is the cause of the protests.

[lannarebirth]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Yep, it's very clear what you want to believe is the cause of the protests.

Well, not JUST that. Locking everyone up for a few months without giving them subsistence is the real cause, George Floyd was the trigger but the ones Imentioned are the ones taking advantage of the current moment. Not to mention, half these kids are $50k in debt for worthless degrees. I'd be mad too.

Edited June 23, 2020 by lannarebirth

[talahtnut]

14 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Rather he is trying to widen it and use it to shore up his political base.

Who would have thunk it.

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Well, not JUST that. Locking everyone up for a few months without giving them subsistence is the real cause, George Floyd was the trigger but the ones Imentioned are the ones taking advantage of the current moment. Not to mention, half these kids are $50k in debt for worthless degrees. I'd be mad too.

And as I said, my post is about trump's failure to respond in a manner that heals.

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

And as I said, my post is about trump's failure to respond in a manner that heals.

 

I just take that as a given. Hardly worth talking about anymore.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I just take that as a given. Hardly worth talking about anymore.

There we agree

[ChouDoufu]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I think we should abolish all statues. Remove them all.

 

i say we replace them all with statues of wakandan rocket scientists, engineers and philosophers.

[RJRS1301]

This is beginning to remind me of what occurred in Germany and Austria in the 1930s with books, art and many historical records.

Surely with statues we can have a "disclaimer" plaque attached to the statue plinth explaining what he did and believed historically. 

Attempting  at obliterating visual history, does not alter the fact that these people and acts and attitudes, are part of history.

We need to recognise past injustices and discriminatory laws, address systemic inequalities, aim for a more humane and just society, but that would take some planning, and hard to achieve on twitter I guess.

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by RJRS1301

[RJRS1301]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

And as I said, my post is about trump's failure to respond in a manner that heals.

I doubt the man understands the word "heal", let alone United.

[bluesofa]

7 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

27 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

And as I said, my post is about trump's failure to respond in a manner that heals.

I doubt the man understands the word "heal", let alone United.

Perhaps he thinks he's talking to a dog?

 

[bodga]

7 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I can see why this statue needs to be removed, white man on a horse and below an Arican and a native American.

Stick the other two on a horse then

[sawadee1947]

20 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

There are certain things in history which you must leave for posterity’s sake,” Dumiso Dabengwa,

You can leave it to books or other media for documentation. 

And...... I walked on "Kaiserstrasse" in Windhuk.......!

 

[ratcatcher]

4 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

You can leave it to books or other media for documentation. 

And...... I walked on "Kaiserstrasse" in Windhuk.......!

 

Good idea and what happens on the next level when they want to destroy the books?  

[natway09]

Not a Trump fan as I am sure you all know, but for once I agree with him,

This anti evrything movement thing is a bit stupid & they are getting far too concerned about history we cannot change & not enough wholesome discussion on "where do we go from here" 

with positive action.

Pulling down our past (good or bad) solves zilch

[spidermike007]

This is all second nature to Trump. He cannot stop the slide into oblivion. He absolutely insists on being on the wrong side of history. He has assured his own defeat and his own fall into a lifetime of obscurity and irrelevance.

 

Who needs an opponent when you are shooting yourself in the foot daily? Go, Don go!

[mrfill]

5 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Or all three of them on the same horse!?

Bring it up to date - get rid of the horse and have all 3 astride a Honda Wave....

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed. 

[mrfill]

5 hours ago, 4reaL said:

Wasn't it the Taliban that also destroyed all cultural statues? 

They didn't remove the statue of Felix Dzerzhinsky outside the Lubjianka. Or the statues of Michael Jackson, Hitler, Stalin, Bill Cosby or Jimmy Savile.

Should they all be returned?

[Mansell]

Now they are talking about removing Lord Nelson’s statue. Doesn’t anybody realize removing a statue changes nothing about the past. And most of these statues were erected after the person was long dead, they had nothing to do with them. Learn from the past and look to the future.....change is in the future, not the past.

[tribalfusion001]

Andrew Jackson last night in DC, failed attempt.

 

 

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Good idea and what happens on the next level when they want to destroy the books?  

already happening.  volumes are disappearing from library shelves, many "offensive" books are no longer offered on amazon, disney cartoons are no longer run or are "revised," elmer fudd's shotgun has been replaced with an axe.  heck, they even airbrushed wolverine's cigar out of the republished comics.

[ThailandRyan]

Looks like next up is Madame Tussauds wax museum, and all of the statues of those people considered to be racist will have to be melted down, and turned into little fluffy unicorns and pretty ponies because of this whole snowflake woke movement.  Looks like another business will fold.....so sad

Edited June 23, 2020 by ThailandRyan