Scotch Bonnnet leaves falling off

[Guderian]

I'm new to growing chillies, and I brought back some Scotch Bonnet seeds from the UK on my last visit for fun, also as it's my favourite hot chilli pepper. They took ages to germinate, but over the last month or six weeks they've shot up. They look quite healthy, but now the lower leaves have started to turn yellow and blotchy, die and fall off. I'm worried that will spread to all the leaves. I can't see any insects on the leaves, and it looks more like it might be a fungal problem to me, though as I said at the start I'm no expert. Does anybody with experience of growing chillies in Thailand, especially foreign varieties like the Scotch Bonnet, know what the problem is and what I should do about it? Thanks for any help.

 

[SVC Porter]

This is usually a sign of nutrient deficiency.  Try a little nitrogen rich fertiliser and see what happens.

 

https://www.thechilliking.com/chilli-plants-turning-yellow-how-to-resolve/

 

Not a bad site for info.

 

HTH

[Guderian]

2 minutes ago, SVC Porter said:

This is usually a sign of nutrient deficiency.  Try a little nitrogen rich fertiliser and see what happens.

 

https://www.thechilliking.com/chilli-plants-turning-yellow-how-to-resolve/

 

Not a bad site for info.

 

HTH

Thanks, that might be it, but then the $64 question is where to get such feed in Thailand? I've tried to buy general fertilisers before in the garden shops in Pattaya but if they have anything at all it's usually some exotic product intended for farms rather than plant pots. I've looked on Lazada, and urea pellets seem to be all that I can find. Do you think these would do the job?

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/900-46-0-0-i268794431-s421000653.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.3.2b463dea2YHgnV&search=1

 

[SVC Porter]

You could try it but remember little at a time.  Sometimes yellowing of leaves can be due to over watering and just to confuse the issue even more with some plants it can be due to underwatering.  

 

I'd try a little of the urea and see what happens.

 

You could always try making your own fertilisers though I've not done this.

https://thegrownetwork.com/15-simple-and-inexpensive-homemade-fertilizers/

 

I did have an effective wormery here a few years back (Ireland) that produced excellent liquid fertiliser and compost from household waste....I don't know how easy that would be to get in Pattaya though. 

 

The other option would be for me to bring you out some in Aug as I am due to start work there and I am sure I could weasel a little fertiliser into my luggage!

 

[moose7117]

I am also having troubles growing Chilis from abroad.

i planted some Habeneros and some Jolokia a while ago and the local thai chilis planted at same time have grown like buggery but my "Exotic" types have germinated but are VERY slow growing.

 

I thought the climates would be similar and they would grow faster.

 

Any ideas as to what i am doing Wrong ?

[Guderian]

4 minutes ago, SVC Porter said:

You could try it but remember little at a time.  Sometimes yellowing of leaves can be due to over watering and just to confuse the issue even more with some plants it can be due to underwatering.  

 

I'd try a little of the urea and see what happens.

 

You could always try making your own fertilisers though I've not done this.

https://thegrownetwork.com/15-simple-and-inexpensive-homemade-fertilizers/

 

I did have an effective wormery here a few years back (Ireland) that produced excellent liquid fertiliser and compost from household waste....I don't know how easy that would be to get in Pattaya though. 

 

The other option would be for me to bring you out some in Aug as I am due to start work there and I am sure I could weasel a little fertiliser into my luggage!

 

Thanks for the kind offer, but at the rate the leaves are dropping off there won't be anything left to fertilise by August, lol. I'm certain I'm not underwatering the plants, but overwatering is a possibility. I try and keep them in as sunny a spot as possible and then water them just before sunset, but with all the cloud and rain around the last month I may have been overdoing it. Unless someone comes up with a better suggestion, I'll order a bag of the urea and try it, it's not expensive after all.

[Guderian]

1 minute ago, moose7117 said:

I am also having troubles growing Chilis from abroad.

i planted some Habeneros and some Jolokia a while ago and the local thai chilis planted at same time have grown like buggery but my "Exotic" types have germinated but are VERY slow growing.

 

I thought the climates would be similar and they would grow faster.

 

Any ideas as to what i am doing Wrong ?

I had much the same experience with the Scotch Bonnets. They took almost two months to get their first real leaves, but then half of them shot up, while the other half just idled along. Different seeds from different plants but all mixed together maybe?

[IsaanAussie]

Can I ask what the soil mix is in the pots and how good is the drainage. It looks OK but I have used bagged soil before that was riddled with biology problems that caused disease issues. Those soils had uncomposted organic matter which was the source of the bacterial issue. Seedlings emerged slowly, then seems OK for a while then just dissolved. I don't see this in your plants as they are quite established, the younger leaves seem a little yellowed on the edges so at a guess I would say soil or nutrient issue. 

If you have lost any then have a look at the roots for signs of disease. 

[kickstart]

www.nanagarden.co

Try the above they sell all different types of fertilizers ,the prill fertilizer from Lazada is just a straight 46% urea ,you should  be able to buy a 1kg from a local shop in town .

[Guderian]

15 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Can I ask what the soil mix is in the pots and how good is the drainage. It looks OK but I have used bagged soil before that was riddled with biology problems that caused disease issues. Those soils had uncomposted organic matter which was the source of the bacterial issue. Seedlings emerged slowly, then seems OK for a while then just dissolved. I don't see this in your plants as they are quite established, the younger leaves seem a little yellowed on the edges so at a guess I would say soil or nutrient issue. 

If you have lost any then have a look at the roots for signs of disease. 

The soil is from the standard 20 Baht bags from the garden shop, that's all you can get around here but I've never had problems growing other plants with it. The pots are well-drained.

 

I'm pretty convinced now that I was overwatering them for the rainy season. I read that they like as much sun as possible, and I thought they'd appreciate a good drink after a day in the sun, but when it's cloudy and raining I think they were just getting too much. By the weight of the pot, the soil is very wet, which it shouldn't be according to SVC Porter's link in post #2. I've moved them under the eaves to keep the rain off, but where they'll still get plenty of sun, and I'll let the soil dry out a bit. The urea should arrive in 3 or 4 days and if reducing the water hasn't helped by then I'll try feeding them a little.

[cooked]

Come to that, NOBODY can grow chili (or tomatoes, aubergines, peppers...) in my part of Isaan, that is to say in the village. Over the road and in the rice fields, no problem. I put this down to a soil born disease.

[IsaanAussie]

1 hour ago, Guderian said:

The urea should arrive in 3 or 4 days and if reducing the water hasn't helped by then I'll try feeding them a little.

I suggest you dissolve about a level teaspoon full or less in water per pot, then water one or two or the worst effected. See what happens.

[Guderian]

2 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

I suggest you dissolve about a level teaspoon full or less in water per pot, then water one or two or the worst effected. See what happens.

Right, thanks.

 

I was thinking of planting them out in the garden, but a lot of plants I've put in the soil in the past have died. Some things do well in it, others can't stand it (a lot of them develop fungus around the roots), so I'll probably get some larger pots and transplant them into those. With the rainy season coming up, it will also make it possible to move them out of the worst of the weather and try to avoid overwatering them via the rainfall. This guy says they'll do OK in pots:

 

https://verticalveg.org.uk/how-to-grow-chillies-in-containers/

 

From what he says, it's clear I've been overwatering them, doh!

[IsaanAussie]

Two issues. First watering, remember that the evaporation rate here is high the answer is to maintain the correct moisture content in the soil (pot or ground). Second, is biological control. Do you use any EM on your garden?

 

[Guderian]

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

Two issues. First watering, remember that the evaporation rate here is high the answer is to maintain the correct moisture content in the soil (pot or ground). Second, is biological control. Do you use any EM on your garden?

 

The watering instructions from the two links posted are basically the same: know how much the pot weighed when filled with dry soil, then after watering wait until it's just a bit heavier than that so the soil has almost dried out again before adding any more water. I think I can manage that.

 

No idea what EM is, sorry, so best to assume that I do not use it, lol.

[Dumbastheycome]

On 6/27/2020 at 4:46 PM, Guderian said:

I had much the same experience with the Scotch Bonnets. They took almost two months to get their first real leaves, but then half of them shot up, while the other half just idled along. Different seeds from different plants but all mixed together maybe?

Have  had same experience  with  Habanero. Initial germination  no problem  but over time just erratic  growth  or  flowering  resulting  in unimpressive productivity. Never actually die away  but  fail to thrive.

A Thai relative suggests that fertile soil is  not a happy place  for  chillies. I am not sure  but I have to admit some of the strongest  plants I have seen  are the  random ones growing  in  strange places.

[KhaoYai]

I have never grown those but with many plants, it is prefectly normal for the lower leaves to die off once they've done their job - which is to support the plant immediately after germination.  They are known as Cotyledon leaves and they die off once enough true leaves develop.

[Saraburi121]

I am still trying to break the code on growing thai chilis lol!  All mine are in the ground not pots but here is a website that helped me out a lot on figuring out chili deficiencies.  

 

https://worldofchillies.com/chillinutrient-guide/chilli-plant-nutrient-guide.html

[CLW]

On 6/27/2020 at 4:27 PM, Guderian said:

Thanks, that might be it, but then the $64 question is where to get such feed in Thailand? I've tried to buy general fertilisers before in the garden shops in Pattaya but if they have anything at all it's usually some exotic product intended for farms rather than plant pots. I've looked on Lazada, and urea pellets seem to be all that I can find. Do you think these would do the job?

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/900-46-0-0-i268794431-s421000653.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.3.2b463dea2YHgnV&search=1

 

I suggest you look for calcium nitrate (15-0-0). It's better tolerated by the plants than urea.

Found it also at lazada, 1kg bag for 80 Baht. Probably lasting a few year for a balcony garden as mine.

[recom273]

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/5-1-30-0-0-15-15-15-i100948206.html
 

I bought some of this - seems to be doing the trick. 

 

Sorry to hijack the thread

 

I got swept away the other month and bought a few varieties - Jamaican, Serrano, etc .. if anyone would like to trade some seeds, I have too many. 

[Guderian]

5 hours ago, recom273 said:

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/5-1-30-0-0-15-15-15-i100948206.html
 

I bought some of this - seems to be doing the trick. 

 

Sorry to hijack the thread

 

I got swept away the other month and bought a few varieties - Jamaican, Serrano, etc .. if anyone would like to trade some seeds, I have too many. 

That certainly looks like the stuff I need, though they're gouging on the postage, naughty of them.

Why are there two packets that look different, I see there's some sort of explanation picture but my Thai isn't that good?

[recom273]

7 hours ago, Guderian said:

That certainly looks like the stuff I need, though they're gouging on the postage, naughty of them.

Why are there two packets that look different, I see there's some sort of explanation picture but my Thai isn't that good?

Here is some info - I bought the 3x15 fertilizer as a tomato feed, to encourage the plants to flower, it seems to work but maybe it was a timing issue. I’m still learning every day. These sites are great reading.

 

https://unclefredsfarm.com/15-15-15-fertilizer/

 

30-0-0 seems to be urea - A nitrogen fertilizer

 

Yeah, I didn't notice the shipping cost - I needed it so I bought it.

I guess the markup on this is huge, if you buy chemicals by the tonne and spit it, it is what it is.
 

You could try ‘chilli focus’ people seem to rate it as an all round chilli feed. Try eBay. But it’s about 800-1000B for a 1L bottle.
 

Another thing, I notice that when you buy plants that like poor quality soils, there is a lot of rice husk in the compost, If you overwatering then you might find it improves the drainage on the bags of garden soil.

[Guderian]

If the chilli plants don't like excess water, then how do they survive the rainy season in Thailand if they're planted in the ground? Maybe the local varieties like the birds eye chilli don't mind so much, and the imported ones we're trying to grow are more sensitive? Still, I think the Scotch Bonnet I planted hails from Jamaica and the climate there's pretty much the same as Thailand.

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, Guderian said:

If the chilli plants don't like excess water, then how do they survive the rainy season in Thailand if they're planted in the ground? Maybe the local varieties like the birds eye chilli don't mind so much, and the imported ones we're trying to grow are more sensitive? Still, I think the Scotch Bonnet I planted hails from Jamaica and the climate there's pretty much the same as Thailand.

Birds eye is grown here. Harvested Feb March so not an issue. 

[Guderian]

51 minutes ago, IsaanAussie said:

Birds eye is grown here. Harvested Feb March so not an issue. 

So does that mean planting my chillies in early March was lousy timing? They're currently around 30-40cm tall and I think they grow to be around three times that height, so I might be looking at another two months before flowering (if I'm that lucky), and as time goes by so the really wet time in Pattaya of September/October approaches. I deliberately didn't plant them in December or January as the nights can get quite cool, and I read that they don't much like that. Maybe I need to build a greenhouse, lol.

[IsaanAussie]

No personal experience but I will ask on the birds eye seasons etc.. From observation most people plant seed beds of chili before they harvest their rice. Beds are prepared and the transplanting done as soon as they can once the rice is done. So that would be mid Nov to mid Dec. They setup pumps and standup pipe sprinkler systems. Fertilisation twice I think. First harvest starts with green chilis only ( at a certain size?) then both colours, then just the reds. As usual early harvesters get the best prices. 

Anyway, I'll see if I can get better than my dodgey memory permits!

 

[Guderian]

21 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

No personal experience but I will ask on the birds eye seasons etc.. From observation most people plant seed beds of chili before they harvest their rice. Beds are prepared and the transplanting done as soon as they can once the rice is done. So that would be mid Nov to mid Dec. They setup pumps and standup pipe sprinkler systems. Fertilisation twice I think. First harvest starts with green chilis only ( at a certain size?) then both colours, then just the reds. As usual early harvesters get the best prices. 

Anyway, I'll see if I can get better than my dodgey memory permits!

 

So if there's only one crop a year how is it that we get fresh chillies all year round?

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, Guderian said:

So if there's only one crop a year how is it that we get fresh chillies all year round?

God invented refrigeration? Only one here...

[cooked]

On 6/28/2020 at 3:11 PM, Guderian said:

Right, thanks.

 

I was thinking of planting them out in the garden, but a lot of plants I've put in the soil in the past have died. Some things do well in it, others can't stand it (a lot of them develop fungus around the roots), so I'll probably get some larger pots and transplant them into those. With the rainy season coming up, it will also make it possible to move them out of the worst of the weather and try to avoid overwatering them via the rainfall. This guy says they'll do OK in pots:

 

https://verticalveg.org.uk/how-to-grow-chillies-in-containers/

 

From what he says, it's clear I've been overwatering them, doh!

I'll say it again: you probably have a soil born pathogen in your soil, I know I do (probably Fusarium wilt) as does the whole area where I live. I can just about get the local chili variety to grow for a month or two if I import soil and use raised beds, but that's it. 

No amount of fertilising / watering will prevent my plants from being infected.

You may wonder why the Thais are so stupid and only grow certain varieties of different vegetables when there are so many better ones available (abroad).

40 years ago people in this village used to roughly dig over infected soil and leave it exposed to sunlight for a few months as a palliative measure (solarisation). Nobody does this any more. These days you could use the plastic sheet method, very labour intensive and time consuming.

[Guderian]

On 7/3/2020 at 6:53 AM, cooked said:

I'll say it again: you probably have a soil born pathogen in your soil, I know I do (probably Fusarium wilt) as does the whole area where I live. I can just about get the local chili variety to grow for a month or two if I import soil and use raised beds, but that's it. 

No amount of fertilising / watering will prevent my plants from being infected.

You may wonder why the Thais are so stupid and only grow certain varieties of different vegetables when there are so many better ones available (abroad).

40 years ago people in this village used to roughly dig over infected soil and leave it exposed to sunlight for a few months as a palliative measure (solarisation). Nobody does this any more. These days you could use the plastic sheet method, very labour intensive and time consuming.

I'm pretty sure there is something nasty in the soil here, as I mentioned earlier some things grow happily in the ground while others just die. I'm very fond of these yellow and green crotons:

 

 

but I've never been able to grow them here, they just die no matter how healthy they are when I buy them, and in spite of having a great display for years when I lived in West Africa.

 

Having said that, though, the Scotch Bonnet plants are still in pots which were filled with the bagged earth (20 Baht/bag) you can buy at the garden shops. Unless the pathogen in my soil can somehow find its way out of the ground and into the plant pots then that's not the cause of this problem. Or is the bagged dirt you can buy full of pathogens too?