UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[RichardL]

3 minutes ago, 473geo said:

As an example UK is running an agricultural trade deficit of around 10% why would they want to pay a 'membership fee', which is the real issue you appear to ignore, when UK can raise tarrifs against EU imported goods in a non free trade environment, thus encouraging UK purchase of UK produce.

If as many of you predict the a slump in the GBP occurs then a reciprocal tarrif from the EU would carry little effect on the pricing of UK goods in Europe.

I believe it's not so simple, as under WTO terms you have to apply tariffs equally. Reciprocal tariffs would also be harmful to a country that imports so much. It's not just a case of "buying British" instead, as manufacturing often relies on imported raw materials that can't be sourced here.

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

UK and EU set for clash on fish and financial services the headline from your FT link

Doesn't say EU fishing access has been agreed 

Join the dots mate.

Now the EU is in the position of wanting access to UK waters.

The UK wants access to EU financial markets.

If you think for one second those fishermen are not going to be sold out then I'm sorry but thats wishful thinking.

I forgot that the FT is behind a paywall. I dont think we are supposed to do this but I will quote the article in full (and without any editing) and hope the mods will be generous given the situation.

Ireland’s prime minister Leo Varadkar warned of a fish for financial services Brexit clash by suggesting that the City of London could lose access to European markets unless the UK opens up its coastal waters to EU boats. Britain has long suspected that Brussels would demand continued EU access to the UK’s fish-rich waters as a condition of a future trade deal, with an explicit link being drawn to an agreement on financial services. But Mr Varadkar told the BBC: “The UK has a lot of waters and a lot of fish is taken out of your waters by boats from other countries. But bear in mind that 70 per cent of the fish you sell, you sell into Europe. “That’s an area where you are in a strong position. An area where you’re in a very weak position is one of the most valuable parts of the British economy — financial services. “You may have to make concessions in areas like fishing in order to get concessions from us in areas like financial services. That’s why things tend to be all in the one package.” The collision on fish and finance issues was set up in last year’s political declaration between Britain and the EU on future relations, which stated that agreements on both areas were a priority and should be settled by July.

Downing Street said it stood by the declaration but insisted the precise timetable for negotiations was still to be agreed between the two sides. The UK hopes to stop Brussels using the sequencing of trade talks to the EU’s advantage.

Boris Johnson’s spokesman said that after Brexit the UK would take control of its coastal waters, but did not exclude the prospect that EU fishermen could continue to operate in them as part of a future agreement. “It will be for the UK to determine who fishes in our waters,” added the spokesman. Britain’s financial services sector hopes to maintain a close relationship with the EU but it will not enjoy the same level of access as under the bloc’s single market, which includes a so-called passporting regime. This allows banks and other financial companies authorised in one EU member state to trade freely in another. The UK and EU are expected to forge post-Brexit market access arrangements for the industry based on the concept of “equivalence”. This would give Britain the opportunity to develop a discrete regulatory regime for financial services, and the ability to diverge from EU rules, although Brussels warned in December that UK access would depend on it “not starting to engage in some kind of deregulation”. Britain has meanwhile refused to offer Brussels any promises on access to UK coastal waters, where more than 700,000 tonnes of fish and shellfish are caught each year by EU boats. After December 2020, Britain will withdraw from the EU’s common fisheries policy — which has dictated where UK boats can operate and how much they can catch — for decades.

British officials believe the adoption of a Norway-style model, which would involve annual negotiations with the EU on quota rights and access, would allow the UK to “take back control” of its coastal waters. Britain would also seek a larger quota than under the common fisheries policy. However, EU governments will seek to preserve their existing rights in UK coastal waters, according to a set of slides setting out the bloc’s negotiating position on the future relationship with Britain. The slides, prepared by the European Council, state that there is a clear link between access to fishing waters and the “broader economic partnership” between the UK and the bloc. Britain could refuse to strike a fishing agreement with the EU and go its own way, but such a scenario would probably lead to the imposition of EU tariffs. It could also lead to the UK being forced to patrol and defend its coastal waters against EU boats.

After talks in Dublin on Monday with Mr Varadkar, EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said he would next Monday circulate a draft negotiating mandate to European capitals for the trade talks with the UK. “Let me recall that the UK is leaving 600 international agreements,” he said. “We have to rebuild everything in our common interest.” Mr Varadkar said Ireland would be a “friend to the UK” after Brexit, but would be on “team EU” in the trade talks. He added: “If you see this as a contest, the EU is in a very strong position . . . But I don’t think we have to see it as a contest. There is a possibility for us to work together with the UK over the next few months and come to a future relationship and a trade agreement that’s mutually beneficial.”

 

Apologies there is little paragraphing and its a bit difficult to read without such. 

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Opl said:

It was Switzerland, then Norway... ( both too soft)... then Canada (undefinite).... now Australia, and soon, No-Deal - anything else left?     

Yes, freedom.....????

[Pattaya46]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

When it comes to GDP and tax revenue the financial services in the UK are massive

You have to question why Scotland would want to walk away from the tax revenue the financial services provides

Because they don't need it ? 

 

 

The question seems to be: Could UK afford to lost Scotland? ????

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

When it comes to GDP and tax revenue the financial services in the UK are massive

You have to question why Scotland would want to walk away from the tax revenue the financial services provides

I'm not going to get involved in a discussion about independence.

Some other time perhaps.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Rookiescot
typo

[baansgr]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

The EU is reluctant to pay for the cake the UK both wants to have and eat

I also think that statement should be reversed

[473geo]

1 minute ago, RichardL said:

I believe it's not so simple, as under WTO terms you have to apply tariffs equally. Reciprocal tariffs would also be harmful to a country that imports so much. It's not just a case of "buying British" instead, as manufacturing often relies on imported raw materials that can't be sourced here.

I believe the tax on raw materials would not be so expensive and prohibitive as tax on an imported finished product.

 

[Opl]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

UK and EU set for clash on fish and financial services the headline from your FT link

Doesn't say EU fishing access has been agreed 

In real life..dependance is on both sides:

"UK has been standing out for the Falklands and its squid and fish sales to the European Union, according to an article from the Financial Times, credited to Jim Brunsden in Brussels, and referred to the post-Brexit EU/UK trade talks."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1300210/Brexit-trade-talks-Brexit-news-Falkland-Islands-fish-squid-eu-uk-talks

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Opl

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed also a reply

[david555]

 (As i warned yesterday ….. keep an eye on Boris …..If needed tell Cummings to restrain his hand puppet...????)  ????

now today :

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/28/senior-conservative-mps-urge-uk-negotiators-reject-brexit-compromise/

 

Senior Conservative MPs urge UK negotiators to reject Brexit 'compromise', as talks resume. The fudge, by which freedom from EU rules is met with the 'punishment' of higher tariffs, would not have the support of the ERG 

 

Senior Conservative MPs have urged UK negotiations to reject a Brexit “compromise” expected to be tabled by Brussels this week, as the latest round of trade talks got underway on Sunday.

Under the proposals freedom from EU rules comes with the price of higher tariffs, but the Government has been warned that such a suggestion would “not for one moment be acceptable” to a 40-strong group of Europe-skeptic backbenchers.

British officials had previously suggested Boris Johnson would consider the compromise, under which the UK would secure the right to deviate from Brussels’ standards in areas such as state aid in return for higher trade tariffs.

Edited June 29, 2020 by david555

[samran]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

We have offered a solution. A free trade deal similar to the one with Canada. It is only the EU's inflexible, intransigent, childish behavior that is preventing such an obvious solution from happening. They are acting like a rejected teenage girl throwing a tantrum.

You mean the one that took 7 or 8 years to negotiate?

 

Do you think you can just copy and paste that agreement in Google Docs, replacing 'Canada' with 'United Kingdom' and be done with it?

[BillStrangeOgre]

Britains fishing industry is a very, very small percentage of the UK economy and having 'full control' of our waters wont bring it back. If we don't allow the EU to continue fishing around Britain, they wont allow us full access to their market to sell our catch...

Do a deal on fishing which will allow us to strike a deal on more important issues...

Hard Brexit on top of Covid-19 would be extreme

Edited June 29, 2020 by BillStrangeOgre

[izod10]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Join the dots mate.

Now the EU is in the position of wanting access to UK waters.

The UK wants access to EU financial markets.

If you think for one second those fishermen are not going to be sold out then I'm sorry but thats wishful thinking.

I forgot that the FT is behind a paywall. I dont think we are supposed to do this but I will quote the article in full (and without any editing) and hope the mods will be generous given the situation.

Ireland’s prime minister Leo Varadkar warned of a fish for financial services Brexit clash by suggesting that the City of London could lose access to European markets unless the UK opens up its coastal waters to EU boats. Britain has long suspected that Brussels would demand continued EU access to the UK’s fish-rich waters as a condition of a future trade deal, with an explicit link being drawn to an agreement on financial services. But Mr Varadkar told the BBC: “The UK has a lot of waters and a lot of fish is taken out of your waters by boats from other countries. But bear in mind that 70 per cent of the fish you sell, you sell into Europe. “That’s an area where you are in a strong position. An area where you’re in a very weak position is one of the most valuable parts of the British economy — financial services. “You may have to make concessions in areas like fishing in order to get concessions from us in areas like financial services. That’s why things tend to be all in the one package.” The collision on fish and finance issues was set up in last year’s political declaration between Britain and the EU on future relations, which stated that agreements on both areas were a priority and should be settled by July.

Downing Street said it stood by the declaration but insisted the precise timetable for negotiations was still to be agreed between the two sides. The UK hopes to stop Brussels using the sequencing of trade talks to the EU’s advantage.

Boris Johnson’s spokesman said that after Brexit the UK would take control of its coastal waters, but did not exclude the prospect that EU fishermen could continue to operate in them as part of a future agreement. “It will be for the UK to determine who fishes in our waters,” added the spokesman. Britain’s financial services sector hopes to maintain a close relationship with the EU but it will not enjoy the same level of access as under the bloc’s single market, which includes a so-called passporting regime. This allows banks and other financial companies authorised in one EU member state to trade freely in another. The UK and EU are expected to forge post-Brexit market access arrangements for the industry based on the concept of “equivalence”. This would give Britain the opportunity to develop a discrete regulatory regime for financial services, and the ability to diverge from EU rules, although Brussels warned in December that UK access would depend on it “not starting to engage in some kind of deregulation”. Britain has meanwhile refused to offer Brussels any promises on access to UK coastal waters, where more than 700,000 tonnes of fish and shellfish are caught each year by EU boats. After December 2020, Britain will withdraw from the EU’s common fisheries policy — which has dictated where UK boats can operate and how much they can catch — for decades.

British officials believe the adoption of a Norway-style model, which would involve annual negotiations with the EU on quota rights and access, would allow the UK to “take back control” of its coastal waters. Britain would also seek a larger quota than under the common fisheries policy. However, EU governments will seek to preserve their existing rights in UK coastal waters, according to a set of slides setting out the bloc’s negotiating position on the future relationship with Britain. The slides, prepared by the European Council, state that there is a clear link between access to fishing waters and the “broader economic partnership” between the UK and the bloc. Britain could refuse to strike a fishing agreement with the EU and go its own way, but such a scenario would probably lead to the imposition of EU tariffs. It could also lead to the UK being forced to patrol and defend its coastal waters against EU boats.

After talks in Dublin on Monday with Mr Varadkar, EU chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said he would next Monday circulate a draft negotiating mandate to European capitals for the trade talks with the UK. “Let me recall that the UK is leaving 600 international agreements,” he said. “We have to rebuild everything in our common interest.” Mr Varadkar said Ireland would be a “friend to the UK” after Brexit, but would be on “team EU” in the trade talks. He added: “If you see this as a contest, the EU is in a very strong position . . . But I don’t think we have to see it as a contest. There is a possibility for us to work together with the UK over the next few months and come to a future relationship and a trade agreement that’s mutually beneficial.”

 

Apologies there is little paragraphing and its a bit difficult to read without such. 

Yes I know he is dead,...but do you have any information on Insp Lockhart of Murder Bag series?

[izod10]

44 minutes ago, BillStrangeOgre said:

Britains fishing industry is a very, very small percentage of the UK economy and having 'full control' of our waters wont bring it back. If we don't allow the EU to continue fishing around Britain, they wont allow us full access to their market to sell our catch...

Do a deal on fishing which will allow us to strike a deal on more important issues...

Hard Brexit on top of Covid-19 would be extreme

Last year a 73 billion deficit with EU,years before  80/90 billion,  now that is money the EU is not getting.  The UK just has to stand still to get benefit of billions

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Right OK let me walk you through this.

What is the one thing the UK has that the EU want? Its access to fishing waters right?

Whats the biggest industry in the UK and where does it do a huge amount of its trading? Its the financial services in the City of London and the EU market.

Now if the UK wants access to those EU markets it will need passporting rights. Otherwise all those institutions in the City will have to move their headquarters to either Frankfurt or Paris. This will result in a massive loss of income for the UK.

So the fishing access is the price the UK will have to pay for that passporting.

The problem is at the moment the UK want to play the fishing card many times and the EU are having none of it. 

add to that all fishing is processed in the EU or on the other side of the channel... they don't get the ALL picture only cherry picking

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

add to that all fishing is processed in the EU or on the other side of the channel... they don't get the ALL picture only cherry picking

As previously stated its the EU that cherry picking over status quo access on fishing

The original game plan from the EU is it wanted fishing access to be resolved by the end of June, so that we give them greater power to reel in the UK on the trade deals and no doubt the EU fishing nations wanted to play their NON cards once an agreement of fishing was in the bag. Problem for them now as we all know the fishing isn't in the bag as no-one is able to provide a link that states otherwise

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As previously stated its the EU that cherry picking over status quo access on fishing

The original game plan from the EU is it wanted fishing access to be resolved by the end of June, so that we give them greater power to reel in the UK on the trade deals and no doubt the EU fishing nations wanted to play their NON cards once an agreement of fishing was in the bag. Problem for them now as we all know the fishing isn't in the bag as no-one is able to provide a link that states otherwise

be patient, no rush, it all be the way UK wants it, the EU will bend over and put the pants down

Edited June 29, 2020 by Mavideol

[kingdong]

13 hours ago, Estrada said:

I think they said the deal was "Oven Ready". 63% of the UK population did not vote for Brexit. Many of the 17% that did are now regretting voting for it based on the lies put forward by Farage, Johnson and Cummings. Many of the Brits resident in Spain and France etc, who vote to leave, are now losing their health cover and their pensions are being frozen the same as we have living in Thailand.

its not fair,nors nelson mandelas a**ehole.

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

As previously stated its the EU that cherry picking over status quo access on fishing

The original game plan from the EU is it wanted fishing access to be resolved by the end of June, so that we give them greater power to reel in the UK on the trade deals and no doubt the EU fishing nations wanted to play their NON cards once an agreement of fishing was in the bag. Problem for them now as we all know the fishing isn't in the bag as no-one is able to provide a link that states otherwise

I have pointed out to you at length the UK has no option but to grant access to the EU over UK territorial waters.

If it does not you can wave goodbye to the financial services  industry in the City of London.

On top of that the EU can still get all the fish it wants from Norway, Iceland and Ireland. The UK on the other hand will be sitting on a mountain of fish with nowhere to sell it.

With the financial windfall of tax from the relocated headquarters of the financial services to Frankfurt and Paris the EU can afford to pay their own fishermen just to stay in port and do nothing.

Did you honestly think this was going to go any other way?

[paddypower]

9 hours ago, transam said:

Very funny, now if you watch Starmers House encounters you will notice he is struggling with most of his reply wording, really performing like a novice, have you noticed that...?

 

Where was Boris's heart attached...?   ????

No. He stands at the lectern, makes eye contact, has his notes. Neither you nor I are labourites, but for gosh sakes, Starmer is a Queens Counsel. Boris, stammers, turns towards his back benchers and usually starts hammering the lecturn to confirm his replies. He lies, he has always lied has and he will always lie,  becuase he is way out of his depth.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

be patient, no rush, it all be the way UK wants it, the EU will bend over and put the pants down

No worries it has already been reported the EU will compromise in September or October no-one expects the EU to bend over and pull its pants down but equally the EU shouldn't expect the same from the UK side

Brussels infuriates Macron with plot to back down on fisheries in last-minute Brexit deal

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1302181/Brexit-deal-news-Brussels-EU-fisheries-fishing-Emmanuel-Macron-Boris-Johnson-latest

 

[bellboy]

If some countries . Like Greece. Romania. Bulgaria etc. That contribution very little to EU coffers and are costing The EU money. were to leave .It would be goodbye . and here's a few quid to help you on your way.

But as it's the UK. your crying like babies .throwing your toys out of the pram.. Wishing them bad luck.. shame on you.. 

[kingdong]

43 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Yes I know he is dead,...but do you have any information on Insp Lockhart of Murder Bag series?

whos dead?i fell asleep halfway through his post.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, vinny41 said:

No worries it has already been reported the EU will compromise in September or October no-one expects the EU to bend over and pull its pants down but equally the EU shouldn't expect the same from the UK side

Brussels infuriates Macron with plot to back down on fisheries in last-minute Brexit deal

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1302181/Brexit-deal-news-Brussels-EU-fisheries-fishing-Emmanuel-Macron-Boris-Johnson-latest

 

Stop reading the express for goodness sake. Get your news from various sources and you will have a far better grasp of what is really going on.

[kingdong]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I have pointed out to you at length the UK has no option but to grant access to the EU over UK territorial waters.

If it does not you can wave goodbye to the financial services  industry in the City of London.

On top of that the EU can still get all the fish it wants from Norway, Iceland and Ireland. The UK on the other hand will be sitting on a mountain of fish with nowhere to sell it.

With the financial windfall of tax from the relocated headquarters of the financial services to Frankfurt and Paris the EU can afford to pay their own fishermen just to stay in port and do nothing.

Did you honestly think this was going to go any other way?

yes

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, kingdong said:

yes

Then you were miss led mate. This was always going to happen when you are a small nation arguing with a far larger entity.

Wait till the negotiations with places like China, USA and India start.

 

[Mavideol]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

No worries it has already been reported the EU will compromise in September or October no-one expects the EU to bend over and pull its pants down but equally the EU shouldn't expect the same from the UK side

Brussels infuriates Macron with plot to back down on fisheries in last-minute Brexit deal

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1302181/Brexit-deal-news-Brussels-EU-fisheries-fishing-Emmanuel-Macron-Boris-Johnson-latest

 

and all you can do is to provide a link for the express.... laughable, pity my friend, please let me breathe 

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Then you were miss led mate. This was always going to happen when you are a small nation arguing with a far larger entity.

Wait till the negotiations with places like China, USA and India start.

 

that I really want to see and looking forward a couple for extra good laughs, they haven't seen anything yet....

[Nigel Garvie]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I have pointed out to you at length the UK has no option but to grant access to the EU over UK territorial waters.

If it does not you can wave goodbye to the financial services  industry in the City of London.

On top of that the EU can still get all the fish it wants from Norway, Iceland and Ireland. The UK on the other hand will be sitting on a mountain of fish with nowhere to sell it.

With the financial windfall of tax from the relocated headquarters of the financial services to Frankfurt and Paris the EU can afford to pay their own fishermen just to stay in port and do nothing.

Did you honestly think this was going to go any other way?

As I mentioned before England's owners of the fishing industry have already sold over 50% of the quotas  off to EU fishing industries. Fishing was marginal in the 90s so we did our usual cut and run. The industries we sold to took a longer term view. No way will we get these quotas back. The money is tiny compared to financial services, prepare for a sell out. 

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I have pointed out to you at length the UK has no option but to grant access to the EU over UK territorial waters.

If it does not you can wave goodbye to the financial services  industry in the City of London.

On top of that the EU can still get all the fish it wants from Norway, Iceland and Ireland. The UK on the other hand will be sitting on a mountain of fish with nowhere to sell it.

With the financial windfall of tax from the relocated headquarters of the financial services to Frankfurt and Paris the EU can afford to pay their own fishermen just to stay in port and do nothing.

Did you honestly think this was going to go any other way?

I never said that the UK wouldn't allow access for the EU to access UK UK territorial waters, what I have said the Uk wouldn't allow status quo access which is what the EU is currently demanding

I think you will find that Norway currently allows EU access to their fishing grounds as Norway has a requirement to access UK fishing grounds something that will have to be renegotiated between Norway and the UK

New talks on fish and seafood between Norway and the UK

https://norwaytoday.info/finance/new-talks-on-fish-and-seafood-between-norway-and-the-uk/