UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[7by7]

@Loiner, I'm not going to bore everyone with full a quote of your tirade.

 

But you did raise a few points worth demolishing.

 

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

The government, voted in by a landslide majority,

43.6% of the vote is not a majority.

 

Even the 80 seat majority our first past the post system gave them is rapidly disappearing as more and more Tory backbenchers repel against the dictatorial antics of Johnson and Cummings. 

 

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

It was effectively another referendum, with a landslide result for Brexit. Pity about your precentages this time.

Again; 53% of voters wanting a final say on the deal is hardly a landslide result for Brexit.

 

Now Johnson and Cummings have denied even Parliament a say on that deal; something May never did. So much for Brexiteer democracy!

 

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

What happened to JRM? He was promoted from the back benches to become Leader of the House. Didn't you notice? He will be the PM when Boris retires with his young family after the next GE.

Yes, but Boris had to gag him during the election campaign and he's been noticeably absent from all press, TV and even very quiet in the House ever since!

 

Next PM? I doubt that the Tory MPs will elect him as leader after they ditch Boris as leader within the next 6 months.

 

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In what world does 43% represent a majority? The vast majority of voters do not want this shower of incompetent and corrupt charlatans. No amount of repeating your lie will make you correct.

<snip>

But we do and that's what matters

What you want matters while what the majority wants doesn't.

 

The typical Brexiteer definition of democracy.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

You do have a tendency to overstate and I can only reiterate, how many remainers would jump at the chance of Mays deal now? If you want to blame someone, blame Corbyns Crusaders.

 I agree that Corbyn should have given his MPs a free vote on May's deal. But the real reason it failed was due to Boris and the Tory ERG.

 

But at least Parliament were allowed to vote on her deal; an opportunity Johnson has manged to use his majority to deny it this time.

 

That Boris's preferred deal is the same as May's with a few minor tweaks proves that his objections to May's deal had nothing to do with what he believed to be best for the country, and everything to do with what he believed to be best for Boris.

 

Having seen what Parliament did to May's deal; it's hardly surprising that he and Cummings are denying them a vote on whatever deal they come up with now that the EU have rejected their preferred one.

[7by7]

59 minutes ago, evadgib said:

It's called draining the swamp 49 & works a bit like you with the report button ????

Another meaningless response and the same false accusation from you.

 

Not worthy of even an E for effort!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

void

 

2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

The referendum was not "binding" in any legal sense. 

 

ALL of the "remainer MPs" were elected by constituents who knew exactly where they stood on Brexit.  Should these MPs then have ignored the democratic mandate they had been given by the people who voted for them?

 

The "will of the people" is oft quoted by diehards.  A majority of the electorate has NEVER voted for Brexit.  A SMALL majority of those who did vote, voed for it - but some, perhaps many, were misled, mistaken, or believed the lies being spoken by BJ and his team.  How many would still vote yes?  How many of those who, previously did not think it worth their while to turn out would now be motivated enough to do so?   But that is all water under the bridge, unfortunately.

 

I beleived at the tiem, and still believe now, that for such a monumental change, there shoud have been a much greater return than 50% plus 1 to carry the day.  All such a low bar has done is to deepen division and drive many to extreme positions that are not helpful to anyone.  Those who were already there must be happy indeed.

 

It is not up to the UK whether the Country leaves on Australia terms (or Norway or Canada Plus or any of the other ideas that have been touted as the "solution" over the past months).  It is for the EU to agree. 

 

But the more the UK Government spits its dummy and proclaims they are in charge, the less and less likely any deal will be done. Some here will loudly applaud that; but in economic terms it is a disaster for the UK.  Border checks and procedures are likely to cost the UK more than the gross amount we used to send to Brussels; we got a substantial amount back directly, and much, much more indirectly.

 

PH

The referendum was run under the same rules as the one in 1975, why should 2016 be any different?

 

I must gave missed these spits and proclamations but I would expect the UK has had enough of the EU trying to continue to rule over these exit negotiations, as they try to rule over everything else. Future border check procedures are not yet known but if they become inefficient and costly then it will be to the expense of both the UK and the EU, with the EU as a whole more affected because it exports far more to the UK then the reverse. UK net contributions were the second highest after Germany; the rebate was modest, dwindling and about to become extinct. These much, much more grants were not that much and were under EU control - the CAP has rewarded UK landowners while reducing UK agri production and making food more expensive.

 

Edited July 21, 2020 by nauseus

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 So according to you the skill level required to pick turnips is equal to that required for the occupations I was posting about: bricklayers, carpenters, plumbers, electricians etc.. I suggest that you don't mention that in the presence of any time served tradesperson!

didn,t say that and you know it....boring boring boring

[kingdong]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Another meaningless response and the same false accusation from you.

 

Not worthy of even an E for effort!

or b for big red bus

[nauseus]

45 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You have failed to comprehend that  he was talking about your heroes; Johnson and Cummings!

 

It is they who have removed Parliament's ability to vote on this issue. 

 

With their 80 seat majority one has to wonder why; could it be because they know Tory backbench support for them and so that majority is rapidly dwindling?

 

It's not a laugh; it's a tragedy!

Correct - I failed. I'm so sorry.

[kingdong]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

time served tradesperson!

? what do you mean someone whos served time in prison?

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, kingdong said:

didn,t say that and you know it....boring boring boring

I was talking about construction workers and your response was that you didn't know turnip picking was a skill!

[7by7]

1 minute ago, kingdong said:

? what do you mean someone whos served time in prison?

Are you British?

 

Your not knowing what a time served tradesperson is suggests not!

 

Edit: Lunchtime pint is calling; so you've plenty of time to look it up!

Edited July 21, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[Loiner]

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

@Loiner, I'm not going to bore everyone with full a quote of your tirade.

 

But you did raise a few points worth demolishing.

 

43.6% of the vote is not a majority.

 

Even the 80 seat majority our first past the post system gave them is rapidly disappearing as more and more Tory backbenchers repel against the dictYepatorial antics of Johnson and Cummings. 

 

Again; 53% of voters wanting a final say on the deal is hardly a landslide result for Brexit.

 

Now Johnson and Cummings have denied even Parliament a say on that deal; something May never did. So much for Brexiteer democracy!

 

Yes, but Boris had to gag him during the election campaign and he's been noticeably absent from all press, TV and even very quiet in the House ever since!

 

Next PM? I doubt that the Tory MPs will elect him as leader after they ditch Boris as leader within the next 6 months.

 

 

Yep, a landslide. 80 seats is what we count. That's a landslide. Why could none of your rag tag forces match that?

Nobody gave anyone else the chance on a final say. It's all up to the elected government and PM Boris, ably assisted by big bad Dom.

Yep, even denied the Remainer riddled Parliament chance of more dirty anti-democratic tricks too. Well done.

I don't think JRM has been gagged. I see him all the time - sticking it up the lefty side, particularly that numbskull Ashworth.

Yes, he'll be the next PM but it will sometime longer than your 6 months. I doubt you know as much about the inner workings of the Tories as you frequently claim.

[kingdong]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Are you British?

 

Your not knowing what a time served tradesperson is suggests not!

clutching at straws now

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

The days of an informative form of discussion are unfortunately over.

I tried to supply as many sources as possible at the beginning of Bexit. Back then I put a lot of effort into translating sources from other countries and the perspective of others.

 

Forget any analytical, intellectual, fact-based discussion here. I used to find several interesting Pro Brexit voices in TV every day that were also able to reflect. The only thing left now, are the same screaming necks from the same Brexit slogans. It is tiring to correct the same lies, half-truths or one-dimensional splinters of thought.

Most of the screaming, lies, half-truths and one-dimensional splinters of thought through Brexit were the property of Remain.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

Would you care to explain as I have NO idea what on earth you are trying to say.

 

PH

You remind me of someone, that's all.

[Loiner]

40 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

@Loiner, I'm not going to bore everyone with full a quote of your tirade.

 

 

Just in case you need an aide memoire, here it is again:

 

4 hours ago, Loiner said:

The government, voted in by a landslide majority, actually represents all of us once they are in, whether you losers like it or not. They are now representing the whole of the UK against the EU's ongoing drive for domination. The UK is winning for us too.

Although there was a certain amount of socialist nonsense from Labour, it did boil down to essentially a single issue election. It was effectively another referendum, with a landslide result for Brexit. Pity about your precentages this time.

The rise of the left's hated Boris as PM, is therefore all May's fault. Being a useless woman, she couldn't do it alone and was helped by a huge cast of supporters, who must share some of the blame. So all the Remainers, leftists and anti-democrats brought about their own misery in Brexit getting done and PM Boris for another four years or so. There should be statues erected of him soon, as the Great British Premier who save us from the EU.

What happened to JRM? He was promoted from the back benches to become Leader of the House. Didn't you notice? He will be the PM when Boris retires with his young family after the next GE.

The EU and Remainers didn't manage to stitch us up with the Merkel/May capitulation deal, so are now thoroughly pizzed off and have to deal with an unyielding UK team to boot. What a hoot.

 

[Loiner]

41 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

What you want matters while what the majority wants doesn't.

 

The typical Brexiteer definition of democracy.

We tend to define it as the majority of the vote. Leave was the majority of the referendum, so Leave we must.
No Ifs, no buts, no more dirty Remainer tricks to overturn democracy.

That's why it's what we want that matters.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

No, since these matters came under the purview of the EU, member states or the commission propose such legislation and it is then democratically approved or rejected either in the European Parliament or the Council of Ministers.

 

There are many who would disagree and cherish the right to change their mind.

 

But we all know you hate that right.

 

The standard Brexiteer response when you have no response to another's argument or are presented with facts which you can't counter!

 

But if I am a troll, then why do you feed me? You're still doing it further on in this topic!

The EU steal stuff like the UK H&S Act, modify it then offer it as their own.

 

The EEC/EU had nothing in place like this for decades. 

 

You are an expert troll. What can I say?

[melvinmelvin]

39 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I agree that Corbyn should have given his MPs a free vote on May's deal. But the real reason it failed was due to Boris and the Tory ERG.

 

But at least Parliament were allowed to vote on her deal; an opportunity Johnson has manged to use his majority to deny it this time.

 

That Boris's preferred deal is the same as May's with a few minor tweaks proves that his objections to May's deal had nothing to do with what he believed to be best for the country, and everything to do with what he believed to be best for Boris.

 

Having seen what Parliament did to May's deal; it's hardly surprising that he and Cummings are denying them a vote on whatever deal they come up with now that the EU have rejected their preferred one.

if Parliament fancies a say on the final outcome and D10 doesn't fancy likewise,

why on earth doesn't Parliament hammer a piece of statute ensuring that they will have a say

 

the foggy island is weird and the governing of it is not sound

 

[bannork]

Trade Bill with the US- the NHS for sale gets nearer.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-vote-down-legal-22388946

[vinny41]

53% of voters wanting a final say on the deal is incorrect as that figure includes 11.5%  Liberal Democrats vote share where the party made in crystal clear if they won a majority they would cancel Brexit without a 2nd vote

so the 53% is really 41.5 of the total vote share

 

Liberal Democrats

The Liberal Democrats have pledged to cancel Brexit if they win power at the general election.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48027580

Jo Swinson claims policy to revoke Article 50 and stop Brexit is ‘popular’

 

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/08/jo-swinson-claims-policy-revoke-article-50-stop-brexit-popular-11410692/?ito=cbshare

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MetroUK | Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MetroUK/

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/08/jo-swinson-claims-policy-revoke-article-50-stop-brexit-popular-11410692/

[Nigel Garvie]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Johnson wants Mays deal but with ALL the compromises made to the EU removed.

The EU is never going to accept that.

Ergo we will be leaving with no deal.

The only thing that will be agreed upon is EU access to UK fishing waters in exchange for passporting rights for the City of London financial services. 

My impression is that Johnson would prefer May's deal as he still has enough brain cells left to work out that a no deal would be catastrophic financially, and he would like to remain in power. On the other hand the reptilian career sociopath Cummings - who holds Boris's reins - won't have it, he is an ideologue, and possibly working for Putin (As of course all Brexiteers have been indirectly). 

 

I expect the EU will not swap a deal on fishing for one on financial services. Some EU countries already own a good chunk of our fishing anyway, and it is tiny compared with what UK stands to lose through financial services. They are getting tired with Brexit, and the little Englanders' bombastic flag waving that goes with it. Why let London keep the vast majority of financial business that could be in Paris, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam? Our pompous, thuggish, self important approach to negotiations, has won no friends, and only makes our utterly deluded assessment of our value to them more apparent. 

 

When I read "They need us more than we need them" I just think,  for heaven's sake get a brain.

[Rookiescot]

14 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

My impression is that Johnson would prefer May's deal as he still has enough brain cells left to work out that a no deal would be catastrophic financially, and he would like to remain in power. On the other hand the reptilian career sociopath Cummings - who holds Boris's reins - won't have it, he is an ideologue, and possibly working for Putin (As of course all Brexiteers have been indirectly). 

 

I expect the EU will not swap a deal on fishing for one on financial services. Some EU countries already own a good chunk of our fishing anyway, and it is tiny compared with what UK stands to lose through financial services. They are getting tired with Brexit, and the little Englanders' bombastic flag waving that goes with it. Why let London keep the vast majority of financial business that could be in Paris, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam? Our pompous, thuggish, self important approach to negotiations, has won no friends, and only makes our utterly deluded assessment of our value to them more apparent. 

 

When I read "They need us more than we need them" I just think,  for heaven's sake get a brain.

Oh I agree. Frankfurt and Paris would love that business done in London. However they would have to sell that idea to their own fishermen who can be a somewhat militant group.

[tomacht8]

4 hours ago, bannork said:

Trade Bill with the US- the NHS for sale gets nearer.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mps-vote-down-legal-22388946

Funny if you compare that to the posters on the red bus.
Why spend £ 350M a week when you can sell the whole thing, but certainly part of it, well.
The American health care system is good for the rich.
Subclass and middle class Americans struggeling, to get a good healthcare.
BJ now has a free passport and can sell the NHS without any controls.
Super Brexit.
Isn't it ?

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

My impression is that Johnson would prefer May's deal as he still has enough brain cells left to work out that a no deal would be catastrophic financially, and he would like to remain in power. On the other hand the reptilian career sociopath Cummings - who holds Boris's reins - won't have it, he is an ideologue, and possibly working for Putin (As of course all Brexiteers have been indirectly). 

 

I expect the EU will not swap a deal on fishing for one on financial services. Some EU countries already own a good chunk of our fishing anyway, and it is tiny compared with what UK stands to lose through financial services. They are getting tired with Brexit, and the little Englanders' bombastic flag waving that goes with it. Why let London keep the vast majority of financial business that could be in Paris, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam? Our pompous, thuggish, self important approach to negotiations, has won no friends, and only makes our utterly deluded assessment of our value to them more apparent. 

 

When I read "They need us more than we need them" I just think,  for heaven's sake get a brain.

You guys all forget that "May's Deal" was the Withdrawal Agreement, not the trade agreement. So, for heaven's sake get a brain.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Funny if you compare that to the posters on the red bus.
Why spend £ 350M a week when you can sell the whole thing, but certainly part of it, well.
The American health care system is good for the rich.
Subclass and middle class Americans struggeling, to get a good healthcare.
BJ now has a free passport and can sell the NHS without any controls.
Super Brexit.
Isn't it ?

Funny if you actually believe that rubbish. 

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

 

When I read "They need us more than we need them" I just think,  for heaven's sake get a brain.

this one is frequenty followed by Let Britain be great again

followed by loud agreeable cheering

 

and then often I am offered a free nip,  in the bars that is

 

so, Brexit is good for my Bangkok Economy

keep 'em coming

 

[tomacht8]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Funny if you actually believe that rubbish. 

Apparently you missed a vote in the UK Parliament. Conservative "backbenchers" voted together with the liberals and the labour. But lost against the medieval seat distribution principle.
BJ now has a free ticket.

[nauseus]

50 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Apparently you missed a vote in the UK Parliament. Conservative "backbenchers" voted together with the liberals and the labour. But lost against the medieval seat distribution principle.
BJ now has a free ticket.

It's late. Obviously.

[kingdong]

9 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Not 'twisting assumptions' at all; those percentages are facts and easily checked.

 

I use the dissatisfaction of Tory backbenchers over Johnson's handling of the pandemic as an example as it shows how he is a one issue PM; Brexit. And as I also said, he can't even satisfy his own back benchers on that!

 

He and Cummings want May's deal with a few tweaks. You remember that deal, the one you Brexiteers refer to as BRINO and treacherous betrayal of the voters.

 

That, at best, is what Johnson will get you.

backbenchers ?don,t you mean backstabbers?about time boris had another clear out.