SURVEY: Gay Marriage--Good for Thailand or not?

[Matzzon]

6 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

No surprises here..... d****head.... yep.

we've yet to find anyone that actually do like

Like what? Find who? Are you talking about a real relationship with children where actually both parents are biologically related to the child? You know a real family, like nature and the evolution set it out to be and work.

[Gene1960]

19 hours ago, stouricks said:

Why do you only show Gay MEN getting married. Do Gay WOMEN no do the same?

We went to a temple ceremony several years ago when a friend , a Dee got married to a Tom. But it was a very modest event. No silk, no gold. 

[RJRS1301]

14 hours ago, Logosone said:

A 2012 study by Mark Regnerus, PhD, Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Texas at Austin, found that children raised by parents who had same-sex relationships suffered more difficulties in life (including sexual abuse and unemployment in later life) than children raised by “intact biological famil[ies].” 

 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0049089X12000610

 

Again, we have to ask, how does a country as a whole benefit from gay marriage?

That has not been the findings of other studies.

Some time children have challenges because of the limited openness of others in their viewpoints.

Bigotry enforces bigotry.

Considering that an estimated 70% of marriages in some places end in divorce within a decade, what happens to those children.

What about children from heterosexual relationships, whose parents separate and sometimes begin same sex relationships and have custody of the children from  the former relationship?

You seem to be overly invested invested in something which you will not be forced to participate in unless you want.

I suggest that in many of arguments take the word "gay" and substitute "Asian/Black/Hispanic/Disabled/"  out and see how it reads 

 

[jacko45k]

11 hours ago, The Barmbeker said:

Did you ever hear of in vitro- fertilisation?

Surrogate motherhood?

Welcome to the 20th century!

Do you ever grasp the concept that this would involve a 3rd party and hence the child would not be the product of the single sex couple? By the way, you even got the century wrong!

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Sheltered life huh?

Yeah, got me a house.

Edited July 13, 2020 by jacko45k

[pineapple01]

As long as they dont come near normal Christian well adjusted folk, or me or my Grandkids carry on. Thats why i like Gay Clubs you get what it says on the Can. Not Anti but just as they do, i have my views, that are as important as theirs.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

As long as they dont come near normal Christian well adjusted folk, or me or my Grandkids carry on. Thats why i like Gay Clubs you get what it says on the Can. Not Anti but just as they do, i have my views, that are as important as theirs.

Yes you got your views, not Dutch at all. Maybe ultra Christian.. Thankfully that group is slowly dying out. I am straight, had a gay friend when I was younger. Never made me think of wanting a BF. You have your views indeed not sure how gays getting close to you or your grandkids will change them. 

 

If your kids are inclined to not being straight it will come out with or without exposure to gays. 

 

 

[pineapple01]

Thank You Rob, i read your last Post. I hope it is ????!. Because a Group is reserved dont underestimate it power. The quiet ones have always been the danger to the Thug. Funny thing ive socialise for years here with Gays Folk. They dont like the TV Gay section here, i can see why i think. I left Holland in 1949 by the way and have no love of Gods.

[The Barmbeker]

11 hours ago, genericptr said:

if that's true then how do we protect against pedophilia? 

It's no ones's human right to **** little children!

Stop acting dumb!

...and I hope you are acting!

[The Barmbeker]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Do you ever grasp the concept that this would involve a 3rd party and hence the child would not be the product of the single sex couple? By the way, you even got the century wrong!

First of all: i grasped that concept!

Second: and the big difference is....which?

Thirdly: no...I didn't! But you seem to!

[The Barmbeker]

1 hour ago, pineapple01 said:

As long as they dont come near normal Christian well adjusted folk, or me or my Grandkids carry on. Thats why i like Gay Clubs you get what it says on the Can. Not Anti but just as they do, i have my views, that are as important as theirs.

No one is being gay AT you or your grandkids!

I always find this hetero point hillarious: "Gays are alright, as long as they don't come after me!"

Does every woman always come after you?

Did it ever occur to you, that you are NOT ATTRACTIVE to each and every single gay man in the known universe?

Or your grandchildren?

Or are you so damn great, that every human being just wants you in their life?

[Logosone]

2 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

That has not been the findings of other studies.

Some time children have challenges because of the limited openness of others in their viewpoints.

Bigotry enforces bigotry.

Considering that an estimated 70% of marriages in some places end in divorce within a decade, what happens to those children.

What about children from heterosexual relationships, whose parents separate and sometimes begin same sex relationships and have custody of the children from  the former relationship?

You seem to be overly invested invested in something which you will not be forced to participate in unless you want.

I suggest that in many of arguments take the word "gay" and substitute "Asian/Black/Hispanic/Disabled/"  out and see how it reads 

 

Yes, that is true, not all studies find the same and of course some gay men will be better parents than many heterosexual men, though of course the mother is always missing. It is a fairly small point because the percentage of gays who marry, and the percentage who then adopt are fairly small. It just goes again to the question posed in this tread, is gay marriage good for a country as a whole?

 

As there are studies that suggest that children who are raised in gay marriages in fact had more problems in life, greater unemployment and such, it is nonetheless a point to consider when considering if gay marriage is good for the country as a whole. Obviously an intact biological family of mother and father is better for the child in most circumstances. Even honest gay men who have children say this, see Doug Mainwaring.

 

Yes, indeed extreme bigotry can be a problem for a child's development, if a child were to be raised in white supremacist environment believing that only white is best and blacks are bad, that would clearly be a problem. On the other hand if a child is raised in an environment where homosexuality is best and heterosexuals are viewed as "heterosexual supremacists" akin to oppressors of blacks, because they do not subscribe to homosexuality clearly that would not be good for the child either. In other words, yes extreme bigotry can be a problem, but extreme openness to any viewpoint can also be a problem. 

 

And in the end geneticists have shown that gays share genes with people who are "risk takers", those who opt for "new experiences". Just in order to have that first gay experience you have to be one who seeks "new experiences" a risk taker over and above the norm. Everyone knows what being gay entails, disapproval from society and persecution and violence from society in the worst case.  But like I say geneticists have confirmed that gays have this "risk taker" gene. 

 

This explains why drug use is prevalent among gays, poppers and MDMA, gays are risk takers and seek new experiences. Now I am all for different societal experiments, but I think we have gone as far as we can with homosexuality. Thanks to the Netherlands, who have foisted the first gay marriage on us, in a country where until recently bestiality porn was wide-spread and produced, it is perhaps hardly surprising that this would happen. Whether this should be emulated everywhere is a different question.

 

Children from heterosexual divorce btw often come out fairly well, studies show this, other studies disagree of course.

 

I'm not overly invested, btw, neither in homosexuality, opposition to homosexuality, gay marriage or opposition to gay marriage. The more experiments society does the better, it is the only way to find the best forms of living. However, gay union seems a dead end, and the question was if it is good for a country as a whole. That is the only question that interests me. Whilst I find a man having a romantic fixation on another man disturbing, it does not affect me in a great way. 

 

However, the adoption of gay marriage by a state does affect me, because it costs hundreds of millions of Dollars for heterosexual taxpayers. And I still pay taxes in Europe due to my business. Someone on here said a gay relationship is something between two people, and it is, but it is also a matter for the state, and taxpayers, if gay marriage is allowed by the state. On the question of whether homosexual marriage is good for a country, I see the disadvantage, hundreds of millions of dollars of cost, however, I do not see any advantage for the country.

 

Again, I am open to persuasion, if someone has a benefit for the country as a whole, do let me know. So far nobody has posted any serious argument in favour of gay marriage being good for the country as a whole.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Logosone

[Pilotman]

12 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Unfortunately it IS a view shared by too many people, out of ignorance really.

its not ignorance, its a valid view. 

[teatime101]

On 7/12/2020 at 11:40 AM, Rancid said:

I have no issues with gay marriage, to each their own, however other groups use it as a stepping stone.

Also known as the 'slippery slope'. Another variation is that if we legalise these 'unnatural' relationships, soon people will be able to marry (and have sex with) their pet, or dead people. It's hot garbage.

[Logosone]

1 minute ago, teatime101 said:

Also known as the 'slippery slope'. Another variation is that if we legalise these 'unnatural' relationships, soon people will be able to marry (and have sex with) their pet, or dead people. It's hot garbage.

I'm not sure it is. 

 

Whilst the gay rights movement has in the past worked with the movement to legalise paedophilia obviously in the current climate that won't happen any time soon.

 

However, if you allow marriage between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, how could you argue that marriage between polygamous couples, man/woman/woman/ or woman/man/man is not right?

 

Legitimizing one fringe sexual preference opens the door to legitimizing others. It's a clear issue.

[teatime101]

6 hours ago, Matzzon said:

Are you talking about a real relationship with children where actually both parents are biologically related to the child? You know a real family, like nature and the evolution set it out to be and work.

I was against gays/lesbians adopting children in the past, but I realised, after seeing many examples of these kind of family setups, that what children need more than anything is to be taken care of, and loved. Loving and responsible parenting doesn't depend on heterosexual relationships, it depends on the quality and character of the parents.

 

Nature doesn't 'set things out'. Nature has no 'purpose'. Your position may be based on religious belief. That's your choice, and not something you can demand of others.

Edited July 14, 2020 by teatime101

[Pilotman]

9 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Sure, like most straight marriages don't fail and there are hardly any straight single parent families.

 

What about the couples with the straight father is committing domestic violence or the drug addicts parents.....?

 

You would not think their children would be better off with a same sex couple just because there is not one man and one woman? 

 

What children need is a secure home with loving family that can care for them...be that whatever sex.  

 

 

To turn your logic back on you: so in same sex couples there is never any  domestic abuse, or drugs, or excessive alcohol;  like their relationships don't fail ever ( they do and anecdotal evidence would suggest, more often than in mixed sex relationships)?  Love in a family can be provided by either sex, that is not my point.  My point is that the nuclear mixed sex, traditional family is the best environment for bringing up a child, as it providers both role models and shows the balance of 'traditional' relationships. There is a reason why nature restricts procreation to mixed sex relationships in mammals. 

[teatime101]

5 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

My point is that the nuclear mixed sex, traditional family is the best environment for bringing up a child, as it providers both role models and shows the balance of 'traditional' relationships.

That's a circular argument.

 

Consider:

 

The non-traditional family is the best environment for bringing up a child, as it providers both role models and shows the balance of 'non-traditional' relationships.

 

Also circular.

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

I was against gays/lesbians adopting children in the past, but I realised, after seeing many examples of these kind of family setups, that what children need more than anything is to be taken care of, and loved.

Unfortunately, studies have shown that being taken care of and loved by a gay couple is not enough, that children of gay marriages have greater problems later in life.

 

Again, even gay men who have children concede that the absence of a mother is a problem.

[Pilotman]

13 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

That's a circular argument.

 

Consider:

 

The non-traditional family is the best environment for bringing up a child, as it providers both role models and shows the balance of 'non-traditional' relationships.

 

Also circular.

Hardly circular at all. How does a same sex relationship provide both role models and therefore a balanced view of human relationships, both male and female?   Learning about and knowledge of all types of none traditional relationships is important to a child's overall education,  being raised in one, in my view, is not. In later years that child can make their own determination as to what kind of relationship will make them happy. 

[bestie]

I like to read comments from people who try to defend their hetero privileges over others because they can't handle it that people love the same gender and only want to have the same privileges as them. They try everything from God to pedophilia.....Jeeezzzzz.

 

But I'm very happy that 80% from Thai Visa are agree to Gay Marriage. Thank you.  ????

[Pilotman]

52 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

I was against gays/lesbians adopting children in the past, but I realised, after seeing many examples of these kind of family setups, that what children need more than anything is to be taken care of, and loved. Loving and responsible parenting doesn't depend on heterosexual relationships, it depends on the quality and character of the parents.

 

Nature doesn't 'set things out'. Nature has no 'purpose'. Your position may be based on religious belief. That's your choice, and not something you can demand of others.

Your first paragraph is a good argument.  However, a same sex relationship does not have the balance  of views, emotions, opinion, world views, as that between male and female in a mixed sex family, it cannot possibly have. that dynamic which is so important for social interaction in later life.  I know that in my family, my wife provided for our daughters advice and guidance on such areas as periods, child birth, sex, what constituted consent, that I could not do as comprehensively and from experience as she could, so how can a male same sex family do that for their daughters?    

Edited July 14, 2020 by Pilotman

[holy cow cm]

18 hours ago, Card said:

You mean the way heterosexuality is rammed home to us at every turn? From advertising, to church sermons to the law?

I haven't heard anyone talking fire and brimstone in all of my years here in Thailand or in the USA. I don't go to church as deplore it and won't listen to anyone preaching it. But the gay this and that and acceptance thing is totally thrown in our faces every where you look, especially nowadays. 

[brianp0803]

What about all the children being raised by single parents? I think this is extremely common nowadays. In Thailand it is very common for the child to be raised by the grandmother because the mother is working.

I think frequently in gay and lesbian relationships one partner typically takes on the stereo typical male qualities and one partner typically takes on the stereo typical female qualities.

although not provided by a male and female, they typically get the more nurturing from one partner and more authoritative from the other partner.

 

Probably the biggest problem a child has been raised by a gay couple is the bigoted attitude of people around them. Initially, interracial children suffer the same problem of non-acceptance by either culture.Children raised by gay parents are currently facing very similar problems to what children of interracial parents faced in the past. Bigotry of the community.

 

As many people have evolved to realize racist comments are not acceptable at school or anywhere, hopefully soon the same will happen with children raised by gay parents.

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

I haven't heard anyone talking fire and brimstone in all of my years here in Thailand or in the USA. I don't go to church as deplore it and won't listen to anyone preaching it. But the gay this and that and acceptance thing is totally thrown in our faces every where you look, especially nowadays. 

And of course legitimising gay marriage further encourages gay activists.

 

We have seen this with feminism as well, giving in to every feminist demand has not stopped feminist activists demanding ever more concessions from society. Want the vote? Check. Abortion? Check. The pill and sexual freedom? Check. Employment laws skewed in favour of women? Check. Divorce laws skewed in favour of women? Check. Health spending skewed in favour of women? Check. Ability to kill husband and claim "battered wife syndrome"? Check. Female head of state? Check. Female members of parliament? Check. Female CEOs? Check.

 

But it's never enough. Feminist activists have never turned around and said thank you, we got what we wanted. Every time a demand was met they merely came up with new demands.

 

And gay activists have been no different. Legitimising gay marriage will encourage gay activists to make ever greater demands. We do not live in an equality wonderworld. The reality is that the world is  a win-lose proposition, when one group receives, it is taken from the other. One always loses, when another group wins.

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, brianp0803 said:

What about all the children being raised by single parents? I think this is extremely common nowadays. In Thailand it is very common for the child to be raised by the grandmother because the mother is working.

I think frequently in gay and lesbian relationships one partner typically takes on the stereo typical male qualities and one partner typically takes on the stereo typical female qualities.

although not provided by a male and female, they typically get the more nurturing from one partner and more authoritative from the other partner.

 

Probably the biggest problem a child has been raised by a gay couple is the bigoted attitude of people around them. Initially, interracial children suffer the same problem of non-acceptance by either culture.Children raised by gay parents are currently facing very similar problems to what children of interracial parents faced in the past. Bigotry of the community.

 

As many people have evolved to realize racist comments are not acceptable at school or anywhere, hopefully soon the same will happen with children raised by gay parents.

Oh dear, what a strange argument you put forward. I wondered when someone would come up with this odd view, to paraphrase, that in a same sex relationship, one person takes on the female role and one the male.  What mixed message does that send to a developing child about relationships and normal social interaction between the sexes, however many genders we seem to have to acknowledge nowadays?   No wonder this millennial generation is so fxxxed up, hardly surprisingly really.  They don't know which way is up, what they are, what they should be, what life holds for them and what their role is in live.  I truly do pity them.  

[Pilotman]

12 minutes ago, brianp0803 said:

What about all the children being raised by single parents? I think this is extremely common nowadays. In Thailand it is very common for the child to be raised by the grandmother because the mother is working.

I think frequently in gay and lesbian relationships one partner typically takes on the stereo typical male qualities and one partner typically takes on the stereo typical female qualities.

although not provided by a male and female, they typically get the more nurturing from one partner and more authoritative from the other partner.

 

Probably the biggest problem a child has been raised by a gay couple is the bigoted attitude of people around them. Initially, interracial children suffer the same problem of non-acceptance by either culture.Children raised by gay parents are currently facing very similar problems to what children of interracial parents faced in the past. Bigotry of the community.

 

As many people have evolved to realize racist comments are not acceptable at school or anywhere, hopefully soon the same will happen with children raised by gay parents.

Then another good reason not to allow same sex adoption. You can't change the colour of your skin you were born with, but why actively and in full knowledge of what will sometimes happen, produce another class of children that are discriminated against; by allowing same sex adoption?  

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, teatime101 said:

I was against gays/lesbians adopting children in the past, but I realised, after seeing many examples of these kind of family setups, that what children need more than anything is to be taken care of, and loved. Loving and responsible parenting doesn't depend on heterosexual relationships, it depends on the quality and character of the parents.

 

Nature doesn't 'set things out'. Nature has no 'purpose'. Your position may be based on religious belief. That's your choice, and not something you can demand of others.

What an insane statement! Nature doesn´t set things out. Are you denying the evolution theory as well? Hasn´t nature set out that only a man and a woman can possibly be the two persons genetically related as mother and father to a baby? That ain´t based on some religious belief! Where is the religion in that? It´s same like saying you love you toilet paper so much, that you can´t bare to make it dirty. Would that make you an ateist? Seriously!

As for the first section in your post, I can clearly see that you have some religious motives here. Are you trying to baptise me? It surely sounds on you that an out of this earth and strong belief made you change you stance as of before. Who made you realize? Who made you find what you searched for? Please tell me the name of your saviour. ????

[Logosone]

28 minutes ago, brianp0803 said:

What about all the children being raised by single parents? I think this is extremely common nowadays. In Thailand it is very common for the child to be raised by the grandmother because the mother is working.

I think frequently in gay and lesbian relationships one partner typically takes on the stereo typical male qualities and one partner typically takes on the stereo typical female qualities.

although not provided by a male and female, they typically get the more nurturing from one partner and more authoritative from the other partner.

 

Probably the biggest problem a child has been raised by a gay couple is the bigoted attitude of people around them. Initially, interracial children suffer the same problem of non-acceptance by either culture.Children raised by gay parents are currently facing very similar problems to what children of interracial parents faced in the past. Bigotry of the community.

 

As many people have evolved to realize racist comments are not acceptable at school or anywhere, hopefully soon the same will happen with children raised by gay parents.

With children raised by a single parent there is always the chance that they will marry again or find a partner, and therefore the child will have two parents of the opposite sex.

 

With gay married parents there is no such chance.

 

This notion that one gay partner can take on the mother role is an illusion. Even gay parents who have children say the children miss the mother. If they can be that honest, you can probably be too and admit that raising a child with two men, and no mother, is not a good solution.

 

I know you want to blame heterosexuals again, the problem is the bigots, ie anyone who does not subscribe to gay ideology, however, what if it isn't, what if it is the gay parents set up itself, what if two men and no mother is the problem?

 

Your wish to censor people in terms of not saying anything negative about gay marriage shows the direction we would be going into if we subscribe to the gay marriage, and gay rights movement. That would just be a first step.

 

Next step: Censor and prohibit any "anti-gay" speech. Maybe smash or remove any statues of heterosexual men?

 

It will not end with gay marriage. Gay activisim, if encouraged this way, will bring a new wave of "speak right" or else, don't do this, don't do that. The freedom you gain, is taken away from us.

 

[brianp0803]

I’m curious with all the gay pride parade throughout America and other countries have any if them had the rioting and looting and destruction of property that we are seeing with the some activist groups in America?
 

Generally the gay community is not a violent angry group seeking to destroy things. But I could see the fear of radical activist wanting the destruction of any statue or anything  that - remotely has a hint of possibly, maybe, ever making a one time comment, that might be, considered by some people, as derogatory remark about gay people. (Can change gay to another word as needed). Also removal of any movies that have a hint of being funny of the stereotypical way that some gay people talk.