SURVEY: Gay Marriage--Good for Thailand or not?

[Card]

On 7/12/2020 at 3:12 PM, bbi1 said:

Exactly spot on with that comment.

So u are saying that divorce by straight couple with kids should be made illegal. 

[NorthernRyland]

I've been watching the gay marriage debate unfold over the years and what I've learned is:

 

1) Gay men (not sure about women) don't seem to really want to get married. Usually women are the ones who pressure marriage and since there's no "biological clock" gay men tend to just date until they get bored and move on. Even straight couples are getting married less these days so the push for gay marriage now of all times is kind of strange.

 

2) Gay activists (most of them not gay themselves) are interested in gay marriage not for the stated reasons but rather as an act of vengeance against what they perceive as a backwards, religious, older generation which needs to "get with the times".

 

3) Civil unions were a reasonable way to address the legal issues but it's very important to notice how they insisted it MUST be gay marriage and nothing else (the language of the poll shows this). It's not about the legal rights of gays, it's about forcing the definition of language to change. Changing the word means everything to them. If the word gay marriage is not accepted in the hearts and minds of the people then the activists will not be happy. Growing up with these people I know it's because they have a hatred for Christians. Me and family are Atheists but there was lots of anti-Christian bigotry in my town.

 

All I can is that is gay marriage is not what they say it's about. If I was Thailand I would be very wary of this.

[Card]

On 7/12/2020 at 4:15 PM, holy cow cm said:

As long as it doesn’t continue to be thrown in our heterosexual faces that they need rights having them grandstanding all the time, then up to them and perhaps it should be legal. But I sort of am a bit withdrawn on the issue of them having kids or adopting, but our world is changing fast and there in many cases are a lot of heterosexual couples that should have been sterilized and banned from being bad parents. But one odd thing is like look at Will Smith’s kids and Angelina and Brad’s kids. Even with all their money something went wrong. So being able to have kids almost should be not a right in a sense.

 

You mean the way heterosexuality is rammed home to us at every turn? From advertising, to church sermons to the law?

[stouricks]

8 minutes ago, Yinn said:

Because for show thai and farang. For the member.

 

 

The thai woman like other Thai woman. 

Because more beautiful.

 

ok, here...

So no Thai girls marry Falang lady, no?

[Logosone]

Doug Mainwaring, the openly gay co-founder of National Capital Tea Party Patriots, stated that “it became increasingly apparent to me, even if I found somebody else exactly like me, who loved my kids as much as I do, there would still be a gaping hole in their lives because they need a mom… I don’t want to see children being engineered for same-sex couples where there is either a mom missing or a dad missing.”

 

https://www.glistsociety.com/2013/02/gay-politician-doug-mainwaring-speaks-out-against-gay-marriage-promotes-husband-wife-households/

[poskat]

its probably already been said,

 

let 'em get married and be miserable like everyone else

 

[Yinn]

2 minutes ago, stouricks said:

So no Thai girls marry Falang lady, no?

Not many. 

But many farang man like thai man and ladyboy so much.

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

I am always amazed why people are against gay marriage. Its just a thing that is useful between people who love each-other. No idea why others worry so much about gay marriage or not. Maybe they are not secure about their own sexuality or brainwashed by some religious ideology. Or just old fashioned (got a lot of those on this forum).

 

Personally I see no problems with this. Marriage is nothing more then a formalization of living together with some rights and duties attached to it. It makes life a lot easier for gay people so why not.

 

I as a straight person see no reason to object to this. I guess a lot of people hate change hate it that now you see gay people in movies ect. Lot of prejudge going around while many guys here have younger wives something that is not looked upon favorably where they come from too. So be a little more open minded how does a gay marriage hurt you ?

[NorthernRyland]

15 minutes ago, Card said:

You mean the way heterosexuality is rammed home to us at every turn? From advertising, to church sermons to the law?

Gays now can get the revenge against the straight population that oppressed (by forcing a change in the language, i.e. marriage is no longer about just men and women). Next is the trans people as we're seeing in full force today in the Western nations. After that will be pedophiles and who knows what comes next.

 

Flying the rainbow flag is virtually an act of war on the population at this point. I would be afraid if I was Thailand.

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I am always amazed why people are against gay marriage. Its just a thing that is useful between people who love each-other.

Scroll up to find my longer post. It's not about marriage. It's about revenge and spite against Christians.

[robblok]

9 minutes ago, genericptr said:

Scroll up to find my longer post. It's not about marriage. It's about revenge and spite against Christians.

Even if it was against Christians (i doubt it). Christians can't claim the have monopoly on marriage. All religions have marriage. Christians are quite intolerant just like Muslims and most other religions. So I don't see the problem to bruise their ego a bit.

 

Im an Atheist wish the world was full of us. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by robblok

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

The US investigation into the costs of gay marriage was confined to, as you say, largely government employment benefits for gay spouses of government employees, especially health benefits. That alone was in total, close to 900 million US Dollars of potential additional cost.

 

That calculation did not take into account the cost of the change itself, the cost of the various inheritance tax, lower tax bracket, tax shelter benefits, IRA account benefits, in short all the many benefits hitherto available to married couples only which at a stroke became available to gay marriages.

 

I am aware that some UK ministers have highlighted the 18 million pounds or so they believed gay marriages would contribute in marriage fees, flowers, receptions and the like, but that is of course a mickey mouse calculation. It does not take into account the above mentioned adverse tax consequences, largely similar in the UK.

 

Nor do any of the calculation take into account the fact that gay marriages will never produce future taxpayers. 

 

Again, due to this fact gay marriages will always be a net loss for society, despite the taxes that gays pay. They do not produce future taxpayers. They claim pension, but do not contribute to the pool of future taxpayers that support the pensions.

 

Against the 18 million pounds the UK claimed it would make in flowers, receptions and marriage fees, you can set the German experience where the Spousal "splitting" tax advantages granted to gay married partners alone cost the German taxpayers 286 million Euro. That is just for one single taxation benefit. Again, it does not account for the lack of future taxpayers gay marriage necessarily involves.

 

Of course you can relativise these figures by pointing to defense expenditure, but it is a lot of money that countries have to spend worlwide to introduce and maintain gay marriage. Certainly more than 1 Billion Dollars globally, most likely a lot more.

 

Whether Thailand would see a boom of gay marriage feasts remains to be seen, there are already so many gay people in Thailand, expats I mean, that it is hard to imagine more coming, and those that are there would they care about marriage at all, about getting married? Hard to say.

     So, my main takeaway from your latest missive is I have decided to be hopping mad that I have been denied, up until June 2015, all the glorious benefits you listed that straight married couples, including childless ones, have enjoyed all these years--and I have paid for with my taxes.  I demand, yes I demand reparations!  

[Peabody]

On 7/12/2020 at 6:40 AM, Rancid said:

I have no issues with gay marriage, to each their own, however other groups use it as a stepping stone. Transgender activism generally comes straight after, which would be fine except for the excessive demands being made to completely rewrite society. Additionally the New York Times and other publications are now saying that pedophilia is a condition and not criminal, despite the damage to the victims.

Got a reference to that alleged Times statement?

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

Because marriage between a male and a female is the foundation of the family. And without children any society, state, culture or country would die.

 

All the benefits you enjoy, hospitals, pensions, roads, theatres, are only possible because  heterosexual people produce children, the normal outcome of marriage. 

 

Without children all of those benefits would be impossible to finance.

You missed the point that loads of kids are getting born without any marriage, marriage isn't a prerequisite.

[jacko45k]

On 7/12/2020 at 4:19 PM, RJRS1301 said:

Same sex attracted couples have been having children for many years

Having or obtaining,,, how do 2 females or 2 males generate offspring?

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, toofarnorth said:

Once more from 'Straw Dogs '.   Some men like women , and some men like boys , but I like big fluffy things that make a bah noise '.

ah yes, the Welsh National Anthem 

[Logosone]

11 minutes ago, newnative said:

     So, my main takeaway from your latest missive is I have decided to be hopping mad that I have been denied, up until June 2015, all the glorious benefits you listed that straight married couples, including childless ones, have enjoyed all these years--and I have paid for with my taxes.  I demand, yes I demand reparations!  

I look at it primarily as a financial issue. I'm a libertarian at heart, and I can understand why men have sex with other men, even if I can't understand how a man could ever have a romantic fixation on another man.  

 

Even that, though more unsettling, on its own would not be enough to oppose gay marriage though, I can't understand why some men find some women attractive, but they do.

 

So this is purely a financial issue. If gay marriage did not cost anything to society as a whole it would be different. But there are those hundreds of millions it does cost. 

 

If gay marriage brought some kind of benefit to a country as a whole to justify the millions of dollars it costs, it would be different. 

 

As it is, from a heterosexual perspective you'd have to conclude that gay marriage is a losing proposition for the whole country except obviously the gay minority.

 

 

[ikke1959]

strange they all talk about money and tax, and adoption of children.....A lot of people refer to America which is a very conservative country and surely not representative for the rest of the world if it is about gay and lesbian relationships...Everybody has an opinion ok.. but i think a lot here think that gay are all child abusers... But how many heterosexual men are raping every day ??? or hitting their wives?? No mention of that... 

[The Barmbeker]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

Having or obtaining,,, how do 2 females or 2 males generate offspring?

Did you ever hear of in vitro- fertilisation?

Surrogate motherhood?

Welcome to the 20th century!

[Logosone]

23 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

strange they all talk about money and tax, and adoption of children.....A lot of people refer to America which is a very conservative country and surely not representative for the rest of the world if it is about gay and lesbian relationships...Everybody has an opinion ok.. but i think a lot here think that gay are all child abusers... But how many heterosexual men are raping every day ??? or hitting their wives?? No mention of that... 

I don't think that all gay are child abusers. Most are not, obviously.

 

However, the very definition of being gay is a sexual preference, it is well known that gays are sexually more active than heterosexuals, indeed geneticists have found that gays share genes with people who are more highly sexually active.

 

Then you have the documented links between the gay rights people and the people trying to legalise paedophilia.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/gay-activists-in-germany-silent-on-alliance-with-pedophiles-in-1980s-a-919119.html

 

Obviously some homosexuals have engaged in paedophilia in the past, have tried to legalise it and they value sexual activity even more highly than most heterosexuals do already. 

 

It's not a concern without a basis in reality.

 

[The Barmbeker]

Amazing how much  ignorance, bigotry and just right out hate, gays get on this thread!

From thinly veiled homophobia, disguised as fiscal concerns to right out 19th century gay hating!

If I wouldn't type this on a computer, one would think, some posters will be going on a cozy witch- hunt, tonight!

Amazing!

Edited July 13, 2020 by The Barmbeker

[Logosone]

7 minutes ago, The Barmbeker said:

Amazing how much  ignorance, bigotry and just right out hate, gays get on this thread!

From thinly veiled homophobia, disguised as fiscal concerns to right out 19th century gay hating!

If I wouldn't type this on a computer, one would think, some posters will be going on a cozy witch- hunt, tonight!

Amazing!

Don't get me started about witches.

 

No children, don't pay income tax.

[The Barmbeker]

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

I don't think that all gay are child abusers. Most are not, obviously.

 

However, the very definition of being gay is a sexual preference, it is well known that gays are sexually more active than heterosexuals, indeed geneticists have found that gays share genes with people who are more highly sexually active.

 

Then you have the documented links between the gay rights people and the people trying to legalise paedophilia.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/gay-activists-in-germany-silent-on-alliance-with-pedophiles-in-1980s-a-919119.html

 

Obviously some homosexuals have engaged in paedophilia in the past, have tried to legalise it and they value sexual activity even more highly than most heterosexuals do already. 

 

It's not a concern without a basis in reality.

 

So you have stated this one article you found over and over and over again, to voice your concerns about a alleged connection between homosexuality and pedophilia!

Now you are talking about "homosexuals" being more sexually active, then heterosexuals!

Do you have another article that says that?

 

As other people have stated: are there homosexual pedophiles!

Sure!

There are alos homosexual murderers!

And rapists!

And way more heterosexuals. who are all of that!

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

 

[The Barmbeker]

1 minute ago, Logosone said:

Don't get me started about witches.

 

No children, don't pay income tax.

Wow...comedy is another thing, you are not good at!

I am impressed!

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Im an Atheist wish the world was full of us. 

I'm an atheist also, along with basically everyone I know and I'm telling you there is a strong anti-Christian bigotry on our side. I'm also not saying I'm necessarily against gay marriage. What I am saying is that it's not actually about what two men do together in their private lives OR legal privileges. 

 

Gay marriage is the logical conclusion from Liberalism but it doesn't end there, it keeps moving forward. 

 

I remember in the US we were having the gay marriage debate in the 90's and one of the stating reasons to oppose it was the slippery slope it would lead to. Fast forward to 2020 and trans-mania has swept the globe in a quasi-religious manor. This is the slippery slope. From where we are today I'm 99% certain normalization of pedophilia comes next.

 

I'm saying I'm against gay marriage but I can't deny what I'm seeing with my own eyes.

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, The Barmbeker said:

So you have stated this one article you found over and over and over again, to voice your concerns about a alleged connection between homosexuality and pedophilia!

Now you are talking about "homosexuals" being more sexually active, then heterosexuals!

Do you have another article that says that?

 

I apologise for not posting this earlier, and thank you for asking. I do:

 

 

"His study, which analysed the genomes of 40 pairs of gay brothers, looked exclusively at people who identified as homosexual. He sees the new paper as an analysis of risky behavior or openness to experience, noting that participants who engaged in at least one same-sex experience were also more likely to report having smoked marijuana and having more sexual partners overall."

 

 

The authors say that they did see links between sexual orientation and sexual activity, but concede that the genetic links do not predict orientation."

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/massive-study-finds-no-single-genetic-cause-of-same-sex-sexual-behavior/

 

Of course empirically it has long been known that gays are more promiscuous and have more sexual partners. For instance, this study found that Men who have sex with Men (MSM):

 

"have longer periods of partnership acquisition, a higher prevalence of partnership concurrency, and more age-disassortative mixing than heterosexuals."

 

Sexual debut occurred earlier among MSM than heterosexuals. MSM reported longer cumulative lifetime periods of new partner acquisition than heterosexuals, and a more gradual decline in new partnership formation with age. Among MSM, 86% of 18–24 year olds and 72% of 35–39 year olds formed a new partnership during the prior year, compared to 56% of heterosexual men and 34% of women at ages 18–24, and 21% and 10%, respectively, at ages 35–39. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3334840/

 

So significantly higher rates of sexual activity among gays.

[Logosone]

15 minutes ago, genericptr said:

 

I remember in the US we were having the gay marriage debate in the 90's and one of the stating reasons to oppose it was the slippery slope it would lead to. Fast forward to 2020 and trans-mania has swept the globe in a quasi-religious manor. This is the slippery slope. From where we are today I'm 99% certain normalization of pedophilia comes next.

It is a documented fact that the gay rights movement has in the past tried to legalise paedophilia and spearheaded the movement to legalise sex with underage children.

 

It's just a fact. 

 

Nobody can deny it.

 

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/gay-activists-in-germany-silent-on-alliance-with-pedophiles-in-1980s-a-919119.html

Edited July 13, 2020 by Logosone

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

It is a documented fact that the gay rights movement has in the past tried to legalise paedophilia and spearheaded the movement to legalise sex with underage children.

It may not even be coming from the gay lobby directly but given the reasoning of Liberalism it should logically follow that the choices between a man, a boy or 12 year old girl are their business and they should be free to express themselves sexually.

 

I used to believe Liberalism and this is exactly the kind of thought process I had so I'm convinced we're going to see this appear in society once enough of the older generations have died and lost control of the culture.

 

So again it's not really about gay marriage but a wider unraveling of European traditionalism. None of this may come to pass in Thailand though, unless they allow full franchise democracy like the West has done.

Edited July 13, 2020 by genericptr

[Logosone]

11 minutes ago, genericptr said:

It may not even be coming from the gay lobby directly but given the reasoning of Liberalism it should logically follow that the choices between a man, a boy or 12 year old girl are their business and they should be free to express themselves sexually.

 

I used to believe Liberalism and this is exactly the kind of thought process I had so I'm convinced we're going to see this appear in society once enough of the older generations have died and lost control of the culture.

 

So again it's not really about gay marriage but a wider unraveling of European traditionalism. None of this may come to pass in Thailand though, unless they allow full franchise democracy like the West has done.

They have definitely tried it, but the current climate is so anti-sexual freedom, thanks to feminism largely, that I don't think the gay lobby will touch the paedophilia cause. They did so in the 1980s, and in Germany the MP who argued to allow sex with children, homosexual Volker Beck, is still active in politics. But obviously he has kept quiet about paedophilia in the current climate.

 

It may come around again, but at this point in time the chances of that are slim I would think.

[Fairynuff]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:09 PM, brianp0803 said:

But also true, giving rights or privileges to certain groups often leads to more demands. Look at BLM for example.

Is it a privilege not to be murdered just because you’re black?