UK-born Islamic State recruit can return from Syria to challenge citizenship removal

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, nemo38 said:

The German system is more just, where both prosecution and defence lawyers are duty bound to bring to light any evidence they find. So they can't sit on evidence that would help the "opposition". 

 

tAnyway, Third world foreigners, particularly those of a religious group who believe they should dominate the whole world, should have no standing in the UK at all. They should never have been given citizenship. We should repatriate them now, irrespective of where they have been born.

 

I agree with the Duke of Bedford who spoke against the 1753 Jewish naturalisation act saying that no group of foreigners should ever allowed to settle in Britain in such numbers that they come anywhere near rivalling the natives OR where they don't blend into the natives after the first generation. As we have seen, they end up ganging up on the natives.

 

I don't subscribe to the idea that we have to continue to follow a set of rules (laws) that have been subverted and are being used to destroy us.

I’m not sure how you managed to drag the Jews into this but I have my suspicions.

[bert bloggs]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Because you are not stuck with her and if you are not in the UK it is difficult to imagine how you got the ‘we’ in there.

Because unlike some i am a proud British subject and yes i live here ,but i abide by Thai law ,i have integrated and i ask nothing of the Thai govt or its people ,but actually contribute to the economy .

is that ok? or am i confusing you?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Because unlike some i am a proud British subject and yes i live here ,but i abide by Thai law ,i have integrated and i ask nothing of the Thai govt or its people ,but actually contribute to the economy .

is that ok? or am i confusing you?

Precisely, you are here, she will be there (very likely for the rest of her life), you are not stuck with her.

 

Nothing at all confusing about that.

 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps a bit of forethought applied to the decision to strip this individual of her citizenship rather than pandering to the anger generated by the rightwing press might have avoided this mess.

 

As is often the case, knee jerk reaction from Government creates more problems down the line.

 

On the upside, if there is evidence of this woman having committed terrorism related crimes she can be arrested, charged and tried in an open court of law.

 

On the upside, if there is evidence of this woman having committed terrorism related crimes she can be arrested, charged and tried in an open court of law.

 

And there is speculation that she will get 6 years (if found guilty????) and out after 3 years, not justice in many peoples eyes. But it doesn't finish there, she will be deemed unemployable because of her actions and be kept in a life of luxury and probably be afforded 24hr protection. If she is successfull in her appeal it will open the floodgates to many more Brit haters back into our country, estimated at 150ish. Let the punishment fit the crime and don't reward these people for their treacherous actions (allegedly).

[Libai]

Miss Begum served in ISIL's 'Morality Police', recruited other young women to join the jihadist group.  She carried a 'Kalashnikov rifle' and earned a reputation as a strict enforcer of ISIL's laws, such as dress codes for women. Additionally, an anti-ISIL activist told that there are separate allegations of 'Begum' stitching suicide bombers into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating. What a lovely person?

[bert bloggs]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Precisely, you are here, she will be there (very likely for the rest of her life), you are not stuck with her.

 

Nothing at all confusing about that.

 

 

so no answer

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

On the upside, if there is evidence of this woman having committed terrorism related crimes she can be arrested, charged and tried in an open court of law.

 

And there is speculation that she will get 6 years (if found guilty????) and out after 3 years, not justice in many peoples eyes. But it doesn't finish there, she will be deemed unemployable because of her actions and be kept in a life of luxury and probably be afforded 24hr protection. If she is successfull in her appeal it will open the floodgates to many more Brit haters back into our country, estimated at 150ish. Let the punishment fit the crime and don't reward these people for their treacherous actions (allegedly).

None of which is an argument against Government being held accountable to the law.

[nemo38]

3 minutes ago, Libai said:

Miss Begum served in ISIL's 'Morality Police', recruited other young women to join the jihadist group.  She carried a 'Kalashnikov rifle' and earned a reputation as a strict enforcer of ISIL's laws, such as dress codes for women. Additionally, an anti-ISIL activist told that there are separate allegations of 'Begum' stitching suicide bombers into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating. What a lovely person?

She was doing a job that British people don't want to do. What more do you want? 

[Pilotman]

3 hours ago, simon43 said:

I read just now that she actually got legal aid to appeal her case at the UK Court of Appeal.  Quite how she managed to get this aid when no longer a British citizen is beyond me......

of course she did, because the systems, Judges and political  leaders in the UK are morons. I am glad that I am out of the place, the UK is a World joke and deserves to be. People on TVF often sneer at the Thais, their attitudes and their ways, but they are streets ahead of the UK in a good many areas.  

[sanuk711]

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

None of which is an argument against Government being held accountable to the law.

Sometimes the law and especially the judges need their 'impartiality' questioning.

[bert bloggs]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

of course she did, because the systems, Judges and political  leaders in the UK are morons. I am glad that I am out of the place, the UK is a World joke and deserves to be. People on TVF often sneer at the Thais, their attitudes and their ways, but they are streets ahead of the UK in a good many areas.  

I fear i am  agreeing with your way of thinking,Britain is fast becoming a place i am glad i grew up in ,but left 

[lemonjelly]

As far as I know, she was an impressionable normal young teenager who was unfortunately brainwashed and radicalized and then to Syria to become a bride, not a fighter. She’s lost a couple of kids in refugee camps. Lass needs repatriation and de radicalizing, she needs to live a normal life again, get away from the Sharia nonsense,  that would send a powerful message to Islamic extremists. She, as a teenager made a mistake, it’s up to the British public to be big and forgive. 

[Joinaman]

49 minutes ago, sungod said:

So does she, its win win.

so why can't we leave her there and conduct the case using Zoom, or some other video conferencing type. No need to allow her in to the UK, She is much safer there due to the Covid virus too, ( well they could use that excuse )

If she wins the appeal, then we maybe have to allow her back in, with all the free benefits, but if she loses, then she stays over there in the camp , hopefully for the rest of her life 

[Rimmer]

A personal attack and a reply has been removed.

 

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[RuamRudy]

36 minutes ago, vogie said:

The flaw I see in this comment is that there will be a good chance the good old British tax payer will be paying for this legal extravaganza, yes the very people she would liked to have seen dead and possibly would still like to see dead. Something wrong here somewhere IMO anyway.

nemo38 suggested that these lawyers would be paid for by 'grudge groups' rather than the taxpayer. I don't know that the government is going to throw huge sums of money at top lawyers to help her.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, pacovl46 said:

Sometimes you have to fight evil with its own weapons to be able to beat it! In other words, you have to stoop down to their level. 
 

She’s gonna be all tears and remorseful in court and then she’s gonna get her citizenship reinstated and then she’s gonna get a slap on the wrist and that’s gonna be it! 
 

Do you think that’s justified for what ISIS has done? Yeah, she might not have been the one pulling the trigger, but she was there and she supported and condoned what they did to countless innocent people, and now that, for whatever reason, she suddenly moved over to the receiiving end of the ISIS stick she wants to go back home to mama and the civilized world! Well, guess what? Everything in life has consequences and she crossed a massive line by joining a terror organization and she needs to pay for it big time because if she gets only a slap on the wrist it will send a bad signal to all the other idiots who are thinking about joining ISIS! Her sentence needs to be really harsh!

I agree that her sentence should be harsh, but it must be applied in accordance with the laws, through the courts, and she must have the same rights before the law as you or I.

 

As for fighting evil with its own weapons - emphatically no. In many years as a professional soldier I encountered, and "crossed swords" with a variety of terrorist and other organisations, who used some very "evil" methods. To fight back using the same methods may lead to short term tactical victory, but it does not resolve the problems, if anything it makes them worse, stokes the fires.

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

As far as I know, she was an impressionable normal young teenager who was unfortunately brainwashed and radicalized and then to Syria to become a bride, not a fighter. She’s lost a couple of kids in refugee camps. Lass needs repatriation and de radicalizing, she needs to live a normal life again, get away from the Sharia nonsense,  that would send a powerful message to Islamic extremists. She, as a teenager made a mistake, it’s up to the British public to be big and forgive. 

What "powerful message" would it send, we can kill westerners and Brits and still be allowed back into the country to claim our benefits?

[lemonjelly]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

What "powerful message" would it send, we can kill westerners and Brits and still be allowed back into the country to claim our benefits?

She was just a bride, washer-up and baby factory.... had she have been producing IEDs I’d be taking a different stance, believe me.

[ravip]

Terrorists get a fair hearing while the law abiding citizens get blown up.

(has been happening for awhile, now)

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, ravip said:

Terrorists get a fair hearing while the law abiding citizens get blown up.

(has been happening for awhile, now)

Alleged criminals get a fair hearing after a crime has been committed. Long may it continue to happen. 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

she gave up her rights when she willingly joined a terrorist organisation.

Not according to the law apparently.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

She was just a bride, washer-up and baby factory.... had she have been producing IEDs I’d be taking a different stance, believe me.

This may be what Begum herself has told the world but independant witnesses have seen her strapping bombs to other members of suicide bombers.

 

She was just a bride, washer-up and baby factory.

And Hitler was just a landscape artist.

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, vogie said:

This may be what Begum herself has told the world but independant witnesses have seen her strapping bombs to other members of suicide bombers.

 

She was just a bride, washer-up and baby factory.

And Hitler was just a landscape artist.

Hitler has arrived already, as we knew he would.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Alleged criminals get a fair hearing after a crime has been committed. Long may it continue to happen. 

Which I suspect will be one of the arguments the court will consider.

 

Those who think it a good idea for Government to strip people of their citizenship without recourse to courts of law ought to consider where such unchecked powers might lead.

 

 

[stevenl]

58 minutes ago, nemo38 said:

<snip>

I don't subscribe to the idea that we have to continue to follow a set of rules (laws) that have been subverted and are being used to destroy us.

If that is the case, change the laws.

[Orton Rd]

3 hours ago, Pravda said:

hi guys, how do I apply for UK citizenship?

Just get on a boat or canoe from France mate, the border farce taxi service will pick you up and sign you up for a life of freebies. It's such a racist country they will risk anything to get into it!

[Orton Rd]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which I suspect will be one of the arguments the court will consider.

 

Those who think it a good idea for Government to strip people of their citizenship without recourse to courts of law ought to consider where such unchecked powers might lead.

 

 

She is not people, she is an Islamic terrorist dedicated to killing, torturing and raping innocent people.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

She is not people, she is an Islamic terrorist dedicated to killing, torturing and raping innocent people.

You're perfectly illustrating the issue here. Many people are looking at it emotionally in stead of rationally.

[sanuk711]

23 minutes ago, lemonjelly said:

As far as I know, she was an impressionable normal young teenager who was unfortunately brainwashed and radicalized and then to Syria to become a bride, not a fighter. She’s lost a couple of kids in refugee camps. Lass needs repatriation and de radicalizing, she needs to live a normal life again, get away from the Sharia nonsense,  that would send a powerful message to Islamic extremists. She, as a teenager made a mistake, it’s up to the British public to be big and forgive.

I really don't think that you have seen any of the interviews that she had given to the BBC etc lemonjelly , Where she was happy about the Manchester bombing etc---that is before her lawyers took over speaking for her......

"Lass needs repatriation and de radicalizing,-Lomonjelly "  -- She was a recruiter for the jihadist group She said she was inspired to join ISIL by (**looking at) videos of fighters beheading their hostages .= She said she had been unfazed by seeing the head of a beheaded man as he was "an enemy of Islam",...WIKI

 

Sources told The Daily Telegraph that Begum served in ISIL's "morality police", and also tried to recruit other young women to join the jihadist group.^[17] She was allowed to carry a Kalashnikov rifle and earned a reputation as a strict enforcer of ISIL's laws, such as dress codes for women. Additionally, an anti-ISIL activist told The Independent that there are separate allegations of "Begum [stitching] suicide bombers into explosive vests so they could not be removed without detonating"